ufoclub said:

databank said:

I'd have to have it in pristine sound quality to be able to consider it etter than the released version. It's certainly not stripped down, though, IIRC Prince removed more sounds than he added. I wasn't aware of the lyrics changes though, I'll have to pay attention

[Edited 5/19/19 12:58pm]

I seem to remember a lot more synth tracks and layers added to the released album version, along with the kid like xylophone hits that sort of made their way through a lot of the the tracks.

The demo had real drums, that were simple, and a saxophone that added thickness. And he had a very hoarse voice.

For a robotic beat like that, I must admit I favor drum machines if it was indeed real drums in the original. And the sax adds nothing for me on a song like that (it sounds like synth anyway, very fake). But then again a pristine version may change my mind. In any case the original is very sparse and very robotic, too, it's far from a band recording.

.

[Edited 5/19/19 14:20pm]

databank said:

ufoclub said:

I seem to remember a lot more synth tracks and layers added to the released album version, along with the kid like xylophone hits that sort of made their way through a lot of the the tracks.

The demo had real drums, that were simple, and a saxophone that added thickness. And he had a very hoarse voice.

For a robotic beat like that, I must admit I favor drum machines if it was indeed real drums in the original. And the sax adds nothing for me on a song like that (it sounds like synth anyway, very fake). But then again a pristine version may change my mind. In any case the original is very sparse and very robotic, too, it's far from a band recording.

.

[Edited 5/19/19 14:20pm]

Interesting, it sounds completely the opposite to me. The original "Elephants & Flowers" sounds "stripped down" organic and non robotic and full of passion and muscle, and the saxophone is what adds that awesome soulful thickness to the mix. Just as his flawed voice (reportedly he had a flu) adds grit too. It's all very warm.

ufoclub said:

databank said:

For a robotic beat like that, I must admit I favor drum machines if it was indeed real drums in the original. And the sax adds nothing for me on a song like that (it sounds like synth anyway, very fake). But then again a pristine version may change my mind. In any case the original is very sparse and very robotic, too, it's far from a band recording.

.

[Edited 5/19/19 14:20pm]

Interesting, it sounds completely the opposite to me. The original "Elephants & Flowers" sounds "stripped down" organic and non robotic and full of passion and muscle, and the saxophone is what adds that awesome soulful thickness to the mix. Just as his flawed voice (reportedly he had a flu) adds grit too. It's all very warm.

Mmmh... OK, interesting indeed You're among those orgers whose perception I value. Now I'd be really curious to see if I'd change my mind with a pristine version. Elite collectors, you know what to do

.

[Edited 5/19/19 15:08pm]

databank said:

Strive said:

edit: Although, thinking about it, I would prefer the next theme album to be Stripped Down - early demos & original cuts of songs. There's so many great songs that Prince overthought to the point of exhaustion. That or he changed the lyrics so it would be less personal (OF4S/Elephants & Flowers/Anna Stesia)

That's one main point of contention between us electronic music and Black music fans and y'all Radiohead/Springteen/McCartney/Dylan fans. Overdubs and layers over layers are, to some of us, a great part of what made Prince's music so fascinating.

I'm none of those things. lol

.

I like overdubs and little touches but there's a number of songs (especially post 93) that he tortured to near death. Gold #1 from Work It 2.0 is a great song that's only missing a guitar solo. The version we got on The Gold Experience was...yeah. Or Horny Pony's another good example. The version on Diamond & Pearls Beginnings is like a completely different song than the one he ended up releasing. They're both good in their own way but the D&P:B one is like a basic funk tune with a James Brown sample.

.

I took a run at the Elephant & Flowers lyrics from the original version.

_____________

Boy is lonely on a burning hot summer night
Car door slams
Out jumps Coco in a dress so tight
The likeness of Jesus on her leather coat
She's too smart for ecstacy, she's too fast for coke
She takes the boy by the hand
The only thing he understands
Is that she wants him on the dance floor

Elephants & Flowers


Hot sweaty light paints a picture of red and gold
Only just turned 18 year old, body super bold (super bold)
Scream and dance for 12 hours to the New Power Soul (new power)
No sex, no drugs, no devil here
Just good ol' rock n' roll

Elephants & Flowers

Love the one who is love
The one who gives us the power
The one who made everything
Elephants & Flowers
The one who will listen when all others will not
There will be peace for those who love God alot

Elephants & Flowers
Elephants & Flowers

No confusion (confusion)

No tears (no tears)

No enemies (no)
No fear (no fear)
No sorrow (sorrow)
No pain (no pain)
No ball (no ball & no chain)

Sex is not love
Love is not sex
Putting words in other people's mouth
gonna get you elected

Don't kiss me, just talk to me
Don't kiss me, just talk to me

Love the one who is love
The one who gives us the power
The one who made everything
Elephants & Flowers
The one who will listen when all others will not
There will be peace for those who love God alot

[Edited 5/20/19 13:50pm]

For me, With This Tear needs to be on the 2nd one, if it happens.

[Edited 5/21/19 13:15pm]

Neon Telephone.

All Day, All Night.

Eternity.

Get Blue and Mind Bells!

Strive said:

databank said:

That's one main point of contention between us electronic music and Black music fans and y'all Radiohead/Springteen/McCartney/Dylan fans. Overdubs and layers over layers are, to some of us, a great part of what made Prince's music so fascinating.

I'm none of those things. lol

.

I like overdubs and little touches but there's a number of songs (especially post 93) that he tortured to near death. Gold #1 from Work It 2.0 is a great song that's only missing a guitar solo. The version we got on The Gold Experience was...yeah. Or Horny Pony's another good example. The version on Diamond & Pearls Beginnings is like a completely different song than the one he ended up releasing. They're both good in their own way but the D&P:B one is like a basic funk tune with a James Brown sample.

.

I took a run at the Elephant & Flowers lyrics from the original version.

_____________

Boy is lonely on a burning hot summer night
Car door slams
Out jumps Coco in a dress so tight
The likeness of Jesus on her leather coat
She's too smart for ecstacy, she's too fast for coke
She takes the boy by the hand
The only thing he understands
Is that she wants him on the dance floor

Elephants & Flowers


Hot sweaty light paints a picture of red and gold
Only just turned 18 year old, body super bold (super bold)
Scream and dance for 12 hours to the New Power Soul (new power)
No sex, no drugs, no devil here
Just good ol' rock n' roll

Elephants & Flowers

Love the one who is love
The one who gives us the power
The one who made everything
Elephants & Flowers
The one who will listen when all others will not
There will be peace for those who love God alot

Elephants & Flowers
Elephants & Flowers

No confusion (confusion)

No tears (no tears)

No enemies (no)
No fear (no fear)
No sorrow (sorrow)
No pain (no pain)
No ball (no ball & no chain)

Sex is not love
Love is not sex
Putting words in other people's mouth
gonna get you elected

Don't kiss me, just talk to me
Don't kiss me, just talk to me

Love the one who is love
The one who gives us the power
The one who made everything
Elephants & Flowers
The one who will listen when all others will not
There will be peace for those who love God alot

[Edited 5/20/19 13:50pm]

Hey, thanks a lot for the lyrics. OK, I compared them to the originals and in terms of lyrics more or less personal, unlike the original Old Friends 4 Sale, I don't find the original E&F more personal at all. When it comes to their literary qualities I am of 2 minds, sort of the same as with Old Friends 4 Sale: I find both versions of both songs to have interesting lyrics and to carry interesting concepts.

.

Back to Gold, I'm gonna be blunt there but here we go: Scritti Politti's 1985 and 1988 records are among my favorite records of all times, I love synthpop, in my world there's no such thing as too many layers of synths. Never, ever.

In the case of Gold I think those overdubs fit the epic tone of the song perfectly. The original demo is totally bland to my ears by comparison and I'm pretty convinced that Prince never planned to leave it at that, that it was just a first draft. It would have made a nice 12'' mix, in the same spirit of those acoustic remixes we got of 7 or Space, it's interesting to hear, but the TGE version had to be a synthesizer extravaganza. IDK, I think Prince had figured the song better than his fans, and I think he made the right call.

databank said:

Hey, thanks a lot for the lyrics. OK, I compared them to the originals and in terms of lyrics more or less personal, unlike the original Old Friends 4 Sale, I don't find the original E&F more personal at all. When it comes to their literary qualities I am of 2 minds, sort of the same as with Old Friends 4 Sale: I find both versions of both songs to have interesting lyrics and to carry interesting concepts.

.

Are you just yanking my chain? Honest question.

Strive said:

databank said:

Hey, thanks a lot for the lyrics. OK, I compared them to the originals and in terms of lyrics more or less personal, unlike the original Old Friends 4 Sale, I don't find the original E&F more personal at all. When it comes to their literary qualities I am of 2 minds, sort of the same as with Old Friends 4 Sale: I find both versions of both songs to have interesting lyrics and to carry interesting concepts.

.

Are you just yanking my chain? Honest question.

Not at all, honest reply.

databank said:

Strive said:

Are you just yanking my chain? Honest question.

Not at all, honest reply.

Ok.

Well, the original E&F makes it pretty clear that he considers himself the Elephant and Coco the Flower. Coco's cool, didn't fall for the same drug traps he did and she approaches him, much to his surprise. Second verse he rejects all the things that were in vogue with rock n roll at the time (sex, drugs, devil) and the next bit, he tries to convince her to just talk to him instead of doing what's expected. He doesn't succeed but God's still there to listen when others won't. (There's also a good reference to the Crystal Ball era with the no ball - no ball & no chain bit.)

The released E&F obscures all that. There's no Coco. Prince is the aggressor searching for his shy angel in a bad city. Most of the meaning is lost. The part of no confusion, etc is attributed to him finding his girl instead of God.

The released E&F isn't bad but it feels more like a reprise of sorts.

donnyenglish said:

Love Thy Will Be Done (NPG Version with Prince Vocals). The one on the upcoming Originals release is the sappy one from the 80's. The revised version from 1995 is epic and among his best songs ever. I've only heard Sonny T's studio version, but there must be a studio version with Prince vocals. For me, this is the holy grail.

Donny is speaking truths here.

Strive said:

databank said:

Not at all, honest reply.

Ok.

Well, the original E&F makes it pretty clear that he considers himself the Elephant and Coco the Flower. Coco's cool, didn't fall for the same drug traps he did and she approaches him, much to his surprise. Second verse he rejects all the things that were in vogue with rock n roll at the time (sex, drugs, devil) and the next bit, he tries to convince her to just talk to him instead of doing what's expected. He doesn't succeed but God's still there to listen when others won't. (There's also a good reference to the Crystal Ball era with the no ball - no ball & no chain bit.)

The released E&F obscures all that. There's no Coco. Prince is the aggressor searching for his shy angel in a bad city. Most of the meaning is lost. The part of no confusion, etc is attributed to him finding his girl instead of God.

The released E&F isn't bad but it feels more like a reprise of sorts.

Interesting, thanks. I don't disagree with anything you said and I'd never assummed the Elephants & Flowers line could be in relation to the characters.

.

Boy is lonely on a burning hot summer night
Car door slams
Out jumps Coco in a dress so tight
The likeness of Jesus on her leather coat
She's too smart for ecstacy, she's too fast for coke
She takes the boy by the hand
The only thing he understands
Is that she wants him on the dance floor

.

Boy is lonely on a burning hot summer night
He's looking for some action, he's looking 4 a fight
He's looking for a savior in a city full of fools
Maybe he just needs a good talker to give him a good talking to.
Can we talk baby? Strip down, strip down.
I think I'm gonna fall in love tonight.

.

The first one appears to be in connexion with that Coco Boys narrative that I don't know so much about. It empowers the woman and gives her divine qualities, makes a statement about drugs, cool. The second one is more in line with the GB narrative, the boy is still lonely but he's roaming and bored and lonely (that narrative would be revisited in Shy some years later) and in need of something to happen, good or bad, or something to fight for. The girl has disappeared, she only exists in his mind now, she's a fantasy, and she's an angle, i.e. too pure to be true. He hopes to find a woman that probably does not exists. It's a very universal them that refers to something most young people experience. The lines about talking and stripping down is a direct reference to The Line (can u be my lover and still be my friend?) and a reinterpretation of the oiriginal's lyrics (don't kiss me, just talk to me). The character isn't just hungry for physical love, he's in need of an intellectual connection.

.

Hot sweaty light paints a picture of red and gold
Only just turned 18 year old, body super bold (super bold)
Scream and dance for 12 hours to the New Power Soul (new power)
No sex, no drugs, no devil here
Just good ol' rock n' roll

.

Elephants and flowers, hot sweaty light paints a picture red and gold
On a crowd of naked bodies stripped down to their very souls
How can he find a shy angel in a city so bold (so bold)
He can't even find a place to dance, this is rock and roll.
Strip down, strip down, elephants and flowers

.

As you said, the first one is a strong statement about hippie ethics from a more spiritual perspective (no sex, no drugs, no devil). Typical Prince paradox and very beautiful as such. The second one opposes the stripped down spiritual dialogue of the first verse to the superficial stripped down behavior of hippes dancing in a club: they are all emotions and wear revealing outfits, they're the arrogance of the partygoer incarnated, in contrast to the "shy" angel the character is looking for. Here Prince makes fun of rock and roll which is in a way a more deconstructed approach than the original: this is all so egotic and superficial that he can't even dance, the atmosphere in the clubs is too lame. Then, the elephants may be the hispters/hippies/rockers while the character and the "angel" he's looking for would be the flowers. Prince is definitely not looking for a girl instead of God, he's looking for God through a girl, which is a very recurring Prince obsession.

.

So in the end I find both versions interesting, both tell different narratives, but I have to say that I fancy the second one for 2 reasons.

.

First I find it more cohesive in the context of the GB album. E&F announced JIR, but it's interesting how it flows from TQOU to E&F then goes to Tevin lecturing the character about how his BS and good intentions, particularly the "Love the one who is love etc." chorus in E&F, is nothing but a statement, but will do nothing good if the character does not act his principles, Tevin is sort of like Jiminy Cricket here. Then comes WCF with its nasty club atmosphere, which is sort of Soul Psychodelicide being played for a year, which finally transitions into JIR where the characters' wishes to find the shy angel are finally rewarded.

.

Then on a much more personal level, I can connect a lot to this E&F/JIR character, because at some point in my early 20's my life was a lot like that: always at parties and clubs, always the hipster, always the socialite, always high, but deep down very lonely and looking for a girl who would not just fuck with me, but who'd be my fiend first, and kind of God's emissary, someone like me, a shy angel who would understand me and guide me toward God's light. Very naive, I know, but I was young, and that was my life, and the funny thing is that when I was a teen I never really cared about those 2 songs, then at some point when I was about 22, it hit me: those songs are describing my fucking life as it is, and that's when I fell in love with them

Here's my take :

.

01. 777-9311

02. Get It Up

03. He's So Dull

04. I Don't Wanna Stop

05. Blue Limousine

06. Rivers Run Dry

07. For Love

08. So Strong

09. 101

10. Uncle Sam

11. The Good Life

12. Count The Days

13. Red Head Step Child

14. Kept Woman

15. Superconductor

16. All This Love

.

So basically songs we've never heard + i don't want the 90's & 2k years to fall in limbo.

fredmagnus said:

Here's my take :

.

01. 777-9311

02. Get It Up

03. He's So Dull

04. I Don't Wanna Stop

05. Blue Limousine

06. Rivers Run Dry

07. For Love

08. So Strong

09. 101

10. Uncle Sam

11. The Good Life

12. Count The Days

13. Red Head Step Child

14. Kept Woman

15. Superconductor

16. All This Love

.

So basically songs we've never heard + i don't want the 90's & 2k years to fall in limbo.

Nice list... looks like (off the top of my lumpy head) that most are not in circulation...

I doubt prince did "river run dry" I think St Paul confirmed it too! And he did not write it either.

Same goes for "Redhead Stepchild" according to Tamar she came up with the lyrics pretty much on the spot...

[Edited 5/27/19 6:33am]

IstenSzek said:

Volume III might look a little something like this:


01. Wild And Loose

02. A Million Miles (I Love You)
03. Drive Me Wild

04. Mutiny
05. High Fashion

06. Mia Bocca

07. Neon Telephone
08. Chocolate
09. Shall We Dance
10. On The Way Up

11. The Halls Of Desire
12. Standing At The Altar
13. Blood Is Thicker Than Time
14. Big Fun
15. Hallucination Rain
16. The Rhythm Of Your Heart
17. Redhead Stepchild
18. Back In Time

And Paula Abdul's "U"?

HamsterHuey said:

IstenSzek said:

Volume III might look a little something like this:


01. Wild And Loose

02. A Million Miles (I Love You)
03. Drive Me Wild

04. Mutiny
05. High Fashion

06. Mia Bocca

07. Neon Telephone
08. Chocolate
09. Shall We Dance
10. On The Way Up

11. The Halls Of Desire
12. Standing At The Altar
13. Blood Is Thicker Than Time
14. Big Fun
15. Hallucination Rain
16. The Rhythm Of Your Heart
17. Redhead Stepchild
18. Back In Time

And Paula Abdul's "U"?

since it's been pointed out that there probably isn't a 'redhead stepchild' with prince vocals,
we can just swap them. although "U" is not one of my favorites, at all. but i guess this is a
concept idea for all the fans, not just for me so yeah, U can have Ur U, U dig?

jstar69 said:

Whatever the track list it must include ‘i hear your voice’

YES.

My thoughts exactly. I love that song.

IstenSzek said:

HamsterHuey said:

And Paula Abdul's "U"?

since it's been pointed out that there probably isn't a 'redhead stepchild' with prince vocals,
we can just swap them. although "U" is not one of my favorites, at all. but i guess this is a
concept idea for all the fans, not just for me so yeah, U can have Ur U, U dig?

Abdul's version's not my favourite, but it made me curious about how Prince's version sounds.

HamsterHuey said:

IstenSzek said:

since it's been pointed out that there probably isn't a 'redhead stepchild' with prince vocals,
we can just swap them. although "U" is not one of my favorites, at all. but i guess this is a
concept idea for all the fans, not just for me so yeah, U can have Ur U, U dig?

Abdul's version's not my favourite, but it made me curious about how Prince's version sounds.

but prince's version of "U" already leaked many years ago, no?

IstenSzek said:

dodger said:

IstenSzek said:

but prince's version of "U" already leaked many years ago, no?

Yes, I was just about to say. In half decent quality as well

.

is only there was a version of Pince on vocals over the Rebles's take....

would love a single collection of all his versions of The Time tracks. #funkfest!

Hmmm. My Vol 2 preference...

1. Mutiny (The Family)

2. Ooh She She Wa Wa (Apollonia 6)

3. Girl (The Time)

4. So Strong (Dale)

5. Mia Bocca (Jill Jones)

7. On The Way Up (Elisa Fiorillo)

8. Come Home (Mavis Staples)

9. Yo Mister (Patti Labelle)

10. Sugar Walls (Sheena Easton)

11. Count The Days (NPG)

12. Bedtime Story (Sheila E)

13. Open Book (Javetta Steele)

14. Neon Telephone (The 3 O'Clock)

15. Time Waits For Know One (Mavis Staples)

PURPLEIZED3121 said:

would love a single collection of all his versions of The Time tracks. #funkfest!

if "they" dont alter them...

A Prince version of I Feel For You (Chaka Khan), With elements of Chakas version mixed in and an interview from M Howe about how he just discovered this never before heard gem in a dusty corner of the vault

1. The Walk

2. 101

3. I Hear Ur Voice

4. Come Home

5. The Belle of St. Mark

6. Wouldn't U Love 2 Love Me ('78 Drum Machine version)

7. Oh, Baby

8. Wet Dream

9. Halls of Desire

10. Neon Telephone

11. Cool