dodger said:

😂 someone missed their plus sign today.
Surely you enjoyed Sonny T and the rarity of Damon D

I know, I'm ranting like an ol' fart...
Still guys, they can do better than this, come on.

In their defense, Prince is not a subject you can cover in 50 minutes.
The cast was not that bad, it's just... You get a sense of dull questions because of dull answers.

This documentary treats Prince like some sort of self-sustaining entity, an insular world, with no social or artistic impact.
I don't need to hear collaborators praising him (again). I wanna hear other high profile musicians opinion on his influence,
some Warner executive on how the crisis escalated, maybe a sociologist on gender equality,
intelligent shit for crying out loud. Not yet another "oh, Prince the Genius, he was so great".
It's just boring, and it sure doesn't help newbies coming in.

No mention of the Black Album, the SOTT genesis, his impact on the internet music business...
It's empty. It goes nowhere. It's just not interesting.

I hope someday a very rich fan will have the courage to burn money
into a 12 episode series, something that gets to the core and points
to stuff with relevance. I'm not speaking as a fan, but as a musician.
There are lots of interesting things to say/study about Prince, I mean the org is testament to this.

"Oh, 'Sexy MF', it's so sexy, you're not allowed to speak like that in the USA..." — Gimme a break!

[Edited 7/21/18 17:43pm]

bonatoc said:

I don't get the appreciation for the documentary.
I thought it sucked big time.
Who cares about people repeating how great he was?

The producer obviously had zero budget, so he ended up with mostly vultures
craving for the exposure: 2 bland song excerpts from Andre (some nightmare from the eighties,
a photocopy of Lenny Kravitz), a self-righteous "top female" bassist player with a purple dong on the head, unicorn my ass,
Sheila getting uglier with every year passing (and again her disturbing proposal story, which no one ever heard of all these years,
except herself), the photograph who shot the homonym album cover (who gives a shit) who tells us Prince was androgyn (Duh!),
a lady well in her sixties who thinks she's still in her twenties whose only exploit is a past hit no one cares about, and, cherry on turd, a... Game Boy!

It's obvious Morris, Sonny and Tommy chimed in for free,
still they got absolutely nothing interesting out of them.

Pathetic documentary, the title suggested a wreck anyway.
Now if you think a very few seconds of unreleased stuff
is worth an hour of this shit, good for you.
What a big fat waste of my time.

And SOTT The Movie... I hate to say this, because I loved it so much for years,
but now every viewing leaves a bad taste in the mouth: I see how much playback
there is (my guess is all of it is dubbed), and it really pisses me off.
Visually, it was arguably his best tour (the images are really faithful to
what the actual concert experience was), but here's the best pop performer ever doing... playback.

Prince doing playback. I mean, either give me the grainy Rotterdam film, or give me the audio track
from the Minneapolis shootings, anything but...
Playback. Ow Lawd.

The doc was a bust for me too- same old same nothing new.

The interviews felt obligatory to me and a bit self-serving as well.. The only one who gave insight of a personal or spiritual nature was MOrris (and no surprise he was around the longest.) Although Andre's statement that P was the most serious and yet silliest man he ever met--that was cool. Sonny, who many claim can be a real hard ass, was actually rather generous about P's talents even stating that he played many instruments well (especially the drums back in the day) and he seemed the most loving surprisingly..Tommy seemed like he didn't want to be there. Sheila was respectful but of course her footage was included (but of course, it would have to be included because her connections to him are based on those songs). I could do without the PR story yet again. Look at it this way. Thinking like a new fan, the video gave very little proof to P's excellence as an instrumentalist other than what Sonny said. If I were a new fan, I would think that P was more like Madonna than Duke Ellington. Good at image, imaginative, decent lyricist, decent voice and smart at hiring good musicians to work for him who basically stated that they wrote the music for Sexy M.F by themselves. He came off like a charismatic pop star/workaholic--but not a musical genius. This might not be the interviewes fault entirely. Its probably the limited scope of the producers of the show. These collaborators have their own interest somewhat at heart--which is understandable. But it would be nice hearing about the making of "I hate U', a song MOrris Hayes witnessed Prince creating by himself.

[Edited 7/21/18 18:10pm]

Pretty harsh..Sheila's looks? Really? HOwever, I have to say (sadly) that Morris, Sonny, Tommy, and Damon did not chime in for 'free' necessarily. I figure it was partly promotion for the NPG touring they are doing right now. I want to believe these folks are sincere about their love for P or they wouldn't be doing the interview. But I just don't know. Morris seems sincere, but he is making a living doing this stuff right now. I guess it would be hard to completely fake it..after all, Tommy, whom I suspect doesn't feel particular fondness for the man, sure as hell didn't seem to want to be doing that interview.

bonatoc said:

I don't get the appreciation for the documentary.
I thought it sucked big time.
Who cares about people repeating how great he was?

The producer obviously had zero budget, so he ended up with mostly vultures
craving for the exposure: 2 bland song excerpts from Andre (some nightmare from the eighties,
a photocopy of Lenny Kravitz), a self-righteous "top female" bassist player with a purple dong on the head, unicorn my ass,
Sheila getting uglier with every year passing (and again her disturbing proposal story, which no one ever heard of all these years,
except herself), the photograph who shot the homonym album cover (who gives a shit) who tells us Prince was androgyn (Duh!),
a lady well in her sixties who thinks she's still in her twenties whose only exploit is a past hit no one cares about, and, cherry on turd, a... Game Boy!

It's obvious Morris, Sonny and Tommy chimed in for free,
still they got absolutely nothing interesting out of them.

Pathetic documentary, the title suggested a wreck anyway.
Now if you think a very few seconds of unreleased stuff
is worth an hour of this shit, good for you.
What a big fat waste of my time.

And SOTT The Movie... I hate to say this, because I loved it so much for years,
but now every viewing leaves a bad taste in the mouth: I see how much playback
there is (my guess is all of it is dubbed), and it really pisses me off.
Visually, it was arguably his best tour (the images are really faithful to
what the actual concert experience was), but here's the best pop performer ever doing... playback.

Prince doing playback. I mean, either give me the grainy Rotterdam film, or give me the audio track
from the Minneapolis shootings, anything but...
Playback. Ow Lawd.

LOL i was only kidding, Tommy B can take credit if he likes, he was probably involved, whatever, who cares. None of them come across as bitter to me, just in awe of working for Prince.

It seemed dumb but fine to me. I can't show things like this to my unconvinced friends though, because when these documentaries hit the 90s the shit gets embarrassing (case in point, the janky "Betcha By Golly Wow" video included in this doc.) I know there was a lot of great stuff released during this period but the docs and compilations all seem to focus on the terrible, no-budget videos and cheesy Game Boyz performances, all of which is aging terribly.

bonatoc said:

Sheila getting uglier with every year passing (and again her disturbing proposal story, which no one ever heard of all these years,
except herself),

Sheila is still a beautiful woman but her story about living with Prince from a very early point on and Princes proposal to marry her do not sound credible to me at all. I thought he was living with Susannah during that period from 1984- 1986. I wonder how Susannah must feel about Sheilas constant retelling of that story.

theplejades said:

bonatoc said:

Sheila getting uglier with every year passing (and again her disturbing proposal story, which no one ever heard of all these years,
except herself),

Sheila is still a beautiful woman but her story about living with Prince from a very early point on and Princes proposal to marry her do not sound credible to me at all. I thought he was living with Susannah during that period from 1984- 1986. I wonder how Susannah must feel about Sheilas constant retelling of that story.

I got a feeling that a lot of these answers were prompted. "I've heard that "When Doves Cry" had a bassline, can you talk about that?" "You've said that Prince proposed during a concert, can you repeat that?" So we keep hearing the same stories again and again. The only person who seemed to have anything of substance to say was Morris.

And Sheila looks like a beautiful 60 year-old woman, imho.

dustoff said:

It seemed dumb but fine to me. I can't show things like this to my unconvinced friends though, because when these documentaries hit the 90s the shit gets embarrassing (case in point, the janky "Betcha By Golly Wow" video included in this doc.) I know there was a lot of great stuff released during this period but the docs and compilations all seem to focus on the terrible, no-budget videos and cheesy Game Boyz performances, all of which is aging terribly.

This is true. There's very few decent, convincing music documentaries in general though. I'm not sure i've ever come across one that would convince anyone coming in cold, it's a tremendously difficult thing to do and often these things are either so broad as to be a bit thick or they already assume you're a fan and don't need to explain who everyone talking is.

Anyway I agree a really well made, career spanning, Prince documentary (series??) would be brilliant; even if there was nothing new, just to present what what we already know in a good fashion would be a start.

I did not mean to attack Sheila physically.
Au contraire, I think she doesn't need that much mascara.
What I mean by "ugly", is what I perceive as an urge to hide the years passing,
or to still appear as sexy as back in the day.
I just think she doesn't need that much masqueranding. She's fine as she is.

It's probably too easy a remark, what do I know, I'm one of those who pee standing.
While I know nothing intimately of the social pressure put on women about their appearance,
I have the feeling that part of the work for equality is to be resist to conform
to what is expected of a woman. I understand one's need to feel comfortable in their skin,
but I wish for her to feel fine with herself without having to empty a bottle of eyeliner
everytime she goes in front of a camera.

Audrey Hepburn is certainly the poster child of what I'm saying, but there are many examples
of women comfortable with their ageing. Maybe it's a typical eighties thing, that look obsession,
but Sheila is such a talent I never thought she would feel that insecure (or at least project lack of confidence)
about her looks, especially when she seems to put the spiritual side of things first.

And I admit, part of my "ugly" statement comes from the way
she presents herself as this central, pivotal muse. This overdoing is what makes her
a less beautiful person to my eyes. But it's sure too harsh a word on my side.

jaawwnn said:

bonatoc said:

dodger said:

bonatoc said:

I did not mean to attack Sheila physically.
Au contraire, I think she doesn't need that much mascara.
What I mean by "ugly", is what I perceive as an urge to hide the years passing,
or to still appear as sexy as back in the day.
I just think she doesn't need that much masqueranding. She's fine as she is.

It's probably too easy a remark, what do I know, I'm one of those who pee standing.
While I know nothing intimately of the social pressure put on women about their appearance,
I have the feeling that part of the work for equality is to be resist to conform
to what is expected of a woman. I understand one's need to feel comfortable in their skin,
but I wish for her to feel fine with herself without having to empty a bottle of eyeliner
everytime she goes in front of a camera.

Audrey Hepburn is certainly the poster child of what I'm saying, but there are many examples
of women comfortable with their ageing. Maybe it's a typical eighties thing, that look obsession,
but Sheila is such a talent I never thought she would feel that insecure (or at least project lack of confidence)
about her looks, especially when she seems to put the spiritual side of things first.

And I admit, part of my "ugly" statement comes from the way
she presents herself as this central, pivotal muse. This overdoing is what makes her
a less beautiful person to my eyes. But it's sure too harsh a word on my side.

😂 put the spade away man

I think I'm gonna stick it where it hurts.
That'll teach me.

bonatoc said:

I did not mean to attack Sheila physically.
Au contraire, I think she doesn't need that much mascara.
What I mean by "ugly", is what I perceive as an urge to hide the years passing,
or to still appear as sexy as back in the day.
I just think she doesn't need that much masqueranding. She's fine as she is.

It's probably too easy a remark, what do I know, I'm one of those who pee standing.
While I know nothing intimately of the social pressure put on women about their appearance,
I have the feeling that part of the work for equality is to be resist to conform
to what is expected of a woman. I understand one's need to feel comfortable in their skin,
but I wish for her to feel fine with herself without having to empty a bottle of eyeliner
everytime she goes in front of a camera.

Audrey Hepburn is certainly the poster child of what I'm saying, but there are many examples
of women comfortable with their ageing. Maybe it's a typical eighties thing, that look obsession,
but Sheila is such a talent I never thought she would feel that insecure (or at least project lack of confidence)
about her looks, especially when she seems to put the spiritual side of things first.

And I admit, part of my "ugly" statement comes from the way
she presents herself as this central, pivotal muse. This overdoing is what makes her
a less beautiful person to my eyes. But it's sure too harsh a word on my side.

Thats a lot of mansplainin' right there.

rdhull said:

Thats a lot of mansplainin' right there.

Because I don't like clumpy mascara and self-aggrandizing?
That's a stretch, "honey".

bonatoc said:

rdhull said:

Thats a lot of mansplainin' right there.

Because I don't like clumpy mascara and self-aggrandizing?
That's a stretch, "honey".

Take your L like a man.

rdhull said:

bonatoc said:

Because I don't like clumpy mascara and self-aggrandizing?
That's a stretch, "honey".

Take your L like a man.

I'd rather be something that you'll never understand.

IF he took credit for that great keyboard section of Sexy MF, I wouldn't care.

jaawwnn said:

LOL i was only kidding, Tommy B can take credit if he likes, he was probably involved, whatever, who cares. None of them come across as bitter to me, just in awe of working for Prince.

They should just do a "classic albums" like series where each episode is a bunch of people invovled with the recording of an album talking about it, while engineers et al show of specific parts, e.g. isolated vocals or guitar etc. Certainly about his 1980s classics.

.

This "let's do an hour about the whole of his life" is just nonsense, you can barely catch it in books that are hundreds of pages and most certainly not in an hour long doc where a bunch of random people get interviewed.

.

There is a 15 minute video on the BBC site about a single Bowie song, pointing out details you can barely make out in the final mix, and it still feels too short.

BartVanHemelen said:

They should just do a "classic albums" like series where each episode is a bunch of people invovled with the recording of an album talking about it, while engineers et al show of specific parts, e.g. isolated vocals or guitar etc. Certainly about his 1980s classics.

.

This "let's do an hour about the whole of his life" is just nonsense, you can barely catch it in books that are hundreds of pages and most certainly not in an hour long doc where a bunch of random people get interviewed.

.

There is a 15 minute video on the BBC site about a single Bowie song, pointing out details you can barely make out in the final mix, and it still feels too short.

This.

And yes, if you're referring to Visconti soloing tracks from "Heroes",
it's fascinating. Music should be the priority.
Enough with Prince the persona.
Let's go back to Prince the musician.

bonatoc said:

bonatoc said:

I don't get the appreciation for the documentary.
I thought it sucked big time.
Who cares about people repeating how great he was?

And SOTT The Movie... I hate to say this, because I loved it so much for years,
but now every viewing leaves a bad taste in the mouth: I see how much playback
there is (my guess is all of it is dubbed), and it really pisses me off.
Prince doing playback. I mean, either give me the grainy Rotterdam film, or give me the audio track from the Minneapolis shootings, anything but...
Playback. Ow Lawd.

.

I agree, this new documentary was pointless and rubbish. I didn't even bother to download it after watching it online.
.
Regarding the SOTT movie: I feel similarly about the playback, I too cringe every time I see the tell tale signs of playback (like when Prince is behind the drums and tries too hard showing off his skills and misses a hit), yet I wouldn't be that harsh in judging him for the playback.
.
The thing is: he wanted to make a concert film, capturing the atmosphere of the arena and the energy of the band on tour. He couldn't have replicated these inside Paisley Park, it wouldn't have sounded the same. He wanted to use the genuine tour audio recordings. On the other hand, the original films turned out to be unusable, hence he needed to refilm it, using playback of the original audio.
.
Sure, it's far from being ideal and I'm always a tiny bit ashamed when I show it to a friend, but I still find it great, because of the energy of the live sound.
.
Playback is most often used when a band is either lacking the chops to play live and they would disappoint the audience, or when it would be too much hassle to set up a live rig inside a TV studio, for example.
99% of bands would overdub the audio of a concert recording, keeping the visual – Prince has done the opposite here by replacing the visual and keeping the genuine live audio, so even though it's far from ideal, I find it justifiable.
.

Kares said:

99% of bands would overdub the audio of a concert recording, keeping the visual – Prince has done the opposite here by replacing the visual and keeping the genuine live audio, so even though it's far from ideal, I find it justifiable.
.

.

AFAIK there still are overdubs in the audio.

bonatoc said:

I don't get the appreciation for the documentary.

Sheila getting uglier with every year passing (and again her disturbing proposal story, which no one ever heard of all these years, except herself)

.

Sheila's story (and the fact that she started sharing it only after Prince's passing) is quite disturbing indeed. Even if Prince did say to her 'marry me' during a performance, I can't imagine it to be much more than an exaggerated expression of appreciation of her playing, in excitement of playing in front of thousands. Kind of like how he says 'marry me' in 'Girl' which sounds like he's just saying it because he's aroused.

.

Kares said:

bonatoc said:

I don't get the appreciation for the documentary.

Sheila getting uglier with every year passing (and again her disturbing proposal story, which no one ever heard of all these years, except herself)

.

Sheila's story (and the fact that she started sharing it only after Prince's passing) is quite disturbing indeed. Even if Prince did say to her 'marry me' during a performance, I can't imagine it to be much more than an exaggerated expression of appreciation of her playing, in excitement of playing in front of thousands. Kind of like how he says 'marry me' in 'Girl' which sounds like he's just saying it because he's aroused.

.

IIRC, she started sharing the story in her book which came out in 2014, not after he passed. That said, I don't believe her at all. The timelines just don't add up.

djThunderfunk said:

Kares said:

.

Sheila's story (and the fact that she started sharing it only after Prince's passing) is quite disturbing indeed. Even if Prince did say to her 'marry me' during a performance, I can't imagine it to be much more than an exaggerated expression of appreciation of her playing, in excitement of playing in front of thousands. Kind of like how he says 'marry me' in 'Girl' which sounds like he's just saying it because he's aroused.

.

IIRC, she started sharing the story in her book which came out in 2014, not after he passed. That said, I don't believe her at all. The timelines just don't add up.

.

You're right, my mistake.

.