don't forget prince didn't really like all the fame he was getting from purple rain ... couldn't leave the house .. masses and masses just stalking him ... dnp was a point he was making to get that record deal ... i think he tends to shy away from being on another huge successful run like pr ... not that dnp was pr caliber .. it was a very safe middle of the road pop album and showed he could write something grandma could sing along to, as well as dropping gett off at the perfect time ... which went over great in the dance clubs ... dnp was the kind of music he could do but not the kind of music he liked to do .. musicology was also very safe and seemed very ego driven .. giving away copies at his show to get it on the charts .. clever but not honest ... emancipation was another one that was so fucking bland but clearly he wanted to prove something with a triple album and desparately trying to say it should count 3 times as much since it was a triple album, so he could have it certified platinum and shove it in wb face ... what is undeniable is that dnp has a couple great pop songs on it .. no matter how cheesy they are .. i can't knock a good pop song when it is that perfect .. cream and dnp are perfect pop songs .. gett off is a perfect club song for the era .. money is just a great song for an adult .. the rest is safe filler for the times ... none of it touches sott in terms of artistry but as a comercial 'product' he nailed it

dodger said:

feeluupp said:

He did promote yes... But it wasn't the extent or a calculated plan like D&P... I mean the promotion felt more of Prince doing the stuff that he felt comfortable with, hence being back on Aresenio show since they were friends at the time, and the Ryde Dyvine was at Paisley Park... For D&P it was more mainstream obligated promotion due to the fact Frank Dileo basically booked all the promotion... With Love Symbol it was Prince promoting but promoting by his own standards...

There was a huge mainstream difference in the way those two albums were promoted... A small example is the huge difference in sales as well.

I don't think you can say he promoted Love Symbol any less than D&P. He was previewing some Symbol tracks on the D&P tour and would play most of the album on the Act I tour.

.

The sales for Symbol would have been affected by:

1) The old 'over saturating the market' argument. It was only one year after D&P.

2) The single choices. It was reported WB wanted to release 7 first, which may have fared better on the radio/charts than P's first 2 choices of Sexy M.F followed by My Name Is Prince.

3) The 3 Chains O' Gold movie being released nearly 2 years after the album.

It's the quantity vs quality debate... Did Prince promote Love Symbol, ofc he did... But it wasn't as calculated and methodical as D&P...

There's a reason why D&P is his 2nd most commercial album, the reason wasn't entirely the music, it was Frank Dileo. Prince and WB, mostly WB pressed Prince to hire Frank Dileo, as MJ would have 5-6 hit singles off every album from, most recent DANGEROUS at the time... While MJ's sales drastically decreased in the U.S. he still was selling 7-8 million copies of his album in the U.S.

Prince was desperate for a big hit at that time, pressured by WB and the upcoming contract, it was really important for Prince to deliver a commercial success at the time.

Hiring Frank Dileo is the main reason why, admit it or not, that D&P was a major success.

Frank literally MADE PRINCE promote. Made him promote a generic way like any major pop star at that time, which is why he achieved the numbers he did... Diamonds & Pearls was the largest selling Prince album WORLD WIDE behind Purple Rain.

Also don't forget Frank was also going to help promote the LOVE SYMBOL album as it stated it need at least 5 million in sales as a part of the new contract... Frank booked Prince may events and promotion appearances all of which Prince didn't agree with, so he reverted to just going back to events that he felt "comfortable" with. Aersenio was mainstream yes, but that was it, those Paisley Park promotional events such as The Ryde Divine, etc... was not mainstream promotion...

There was also agruements as Frank pushed WB to have 7 the first single, and Prince didn't want that, eventually Prince fired Frank and the ene result was Love Symbol sold poorly only selling 2 million copies and felt short of the 5 million and we all know in the end what happened after that album...

So no I don't agree with he promoted Love Symbol as much as D&P. He promoted it to his own standards, and promoted it not the right way as Frank orchestrated the promotion from D&P.

DIAMONDS & PEARLS BY THE NUMBERS:

- Second biggest selling Prince album behind Purple Rain. Estimated world wide sales over 6.7 Million Sold.

-GET OFF #21, CREAM #1, DIAMONDS & PEARLS #3, MONEY DON'T MATTER 2 NIGHT #23

-DEBUTED #3 U.S. BILLBOARD CHART, TOP 10 IN OVER 15 COUNTRIES

feeluupp said:

dodger said:

I don't think you can say he promoted Love Symbol any less than D&P. He was previewing some Symbol tracks on the D&P tour and would play most of the album on the Act I tour.

.

The sales for Symbol would have been affected by:

1) The old 'over saturating the market' argument. It was only one year after D&P.

2) The single choices. It was reported WB wanted to release 7 first, which may have fared better on the radio/charts than P's first 2 choices of Sexy M.F followed by My Name Is Prince.

3) The 3 Chains O' Gold movie being released nearly 2 years after the album.

It's the quantity vs quality debate... Did Prince promote Love Symbol, ofc he did... But it wasn't as calculated and methodical as D&P...

How? Provide examples please.

There's a reason why D&P is his 2nd most commercial album, the reason wasn't entirely the music, it was Frank Dileo. Prince and WB, mostly WB pressed Prince to hire Frank Dileo, as MJ would have 5-6 hit singles off every album from, most recent DANGEROUS at the time... While MJ's sales drastically decreased in the U.S. he still was selling 7-8 million copies of his album in the U.S.

Prince was desperate for a big hit at that time, pressured by WB and the upcoming contract, it was really important for Prince to deliver a commercial success at the time.

Hiring Frank Dileo is the main reason why, admit it or not, that D&P was a major success.

Frank literally MADE PRINCE promote. Made him promote a generic way like any major pop star at that time, which is why he achieved the numbers he did... Diamonds & Pearls was the largest selling Prince album WORLD WIDE behind Purple Rain.

You're saying a lot of things but not providing sources. How was Prince made to promote by Frank, and why do you feel it was more of an effort, and more calculated, than what was done for ?

Also don't forget Frank was also going to help promote the LOVE SYMBOL album as it stated it need at least 5 million in sales as a part of the new contract... Frank booked Prince may events and promotion appearances all of which Prince didn't agree with, so he reverted to just going back to events that he felt "comfortable" with. Aersenio was mainstream yes, but that was it, those Paisley Park promotional events such as The Ryde Divine, etc... was not mainstream promotion...

Was that in a book or something?

There was also agruements as Frank pushed WB to have 7 the first single, and Prince didn't want that, eventually Prince fired Frank and the ene result was Love Symbol sold poorly only selling 2 million copies and felt short of the 5 million and we all know in the end what happened after that album...

Prince firing Frank was the reason didn't sell as well as Diamonds And Pearls? That's ridiculous. It might have been a factor, but you can't really quantify a statement like that.

So no I don't agree with he promoted Love Symbol as much as D&P. He promoted it to his own standards, and promoted it not the right way as Frank orchestrated the promotion from D&P.

What I remember about the Diamonds And Pearls promo, aside from adverts in magazines, was the USA Today interview with Edna Gundersen, done months in advance, featuring quotes from Anthony Kiedis about how great the album was. The Special Olympics appearance. Servicing Gett Off to clubs on his birthday, and releasing the VHS single. Arsenio. Videos, including a compilation of all of them, plus extras, also released on VHS. Overseas tour but no US tour.

had Sexy MF serviced to clubs on his birthday, as well as a VHS single, also promoting the forthcoming album and Carmen Electra. Cryptic messages to trade mags, "2 whomever it may concern..." 2 page spread in USA Today promoting the album, featuring exerpts of lyrics from all of the tracks. My Name Is Prince serviced to radio, with a video featuring Kirstie Alley. Arsenio appearance. Record store appearances, some including performances. TV special. Videos made for all of the songs on the album (some not released), compiled on a VHS release years later. US tour, as well as overseas.

The facts speak for themselves. I'm inclined to agree with others who feel that the reason for poorer sales were related single choices (2 lead singles were rap tracks, possibly leading the general public to believe the project was more of a rap effort), and an album that wasn't quite as accessible or catchy as Diamonds And Pearls. 7 was pretty immediate, though most didn't understand the lyrics. The Morning Papers had moderate success, but came pretty late in the game. What else on the album really screamed, "SMASH?"

SchlomoThaHomo said:

HamsterHuey said:

SchlomoThaHomo said:

feeluupp said:

Prince firing Frank was the reason didn't sell as well as Diamonds And Pearls? That's ridiculous. It might have been a factor, but you can't really quantify a statement like that.

So no I don't agree with he promoted Love Symbol as much as D&P. He promoted it to his own standards, and promoted it not the right way as Frank orchestrated the promotion from D&P.

What I remember about the Diamonds And Pearls promo, aside from adverts in magazines, was the USA Today interview with Edna Gundersen, done months in advance, featuring quotes from Anthony Kiedis about how great the album was. The Special Olympics appearance. Servicing Gett Off to clubs on his birthday, and releasing the VHS single. Arsenio. Videos, including a compilation of all of them, plus extras, also released on VHS. Overseas tour but no US tour.

had Sexy MF serviced to clubs on his birthday, as well as a VHS single, also promoting the forthcoming album and Carmen Electra. Cryptic messages to trade mags, "2 whomever it may concern..." 2 page spread in USA Today promoting the album, featuring exerpts of lyrics from all of the tracks. My Name Is Prince serviced to radio, with a video featuring Kirstie Alley. Arsenio appearance. Record store appearances, some including performances. TV special. Videos made for all of the songs on the album (some not released), compiled on a VHS release years later. US tour, as well as overseas.

The facts speak for themselves. I'm inclined to agree with others who feel that the reason for poorer sales were related single choices (2 lead singles were rap tracks, possibly leading the general public to believe the project was more of a rap effort), and an album that wasn't quite as accessible or catchy as Diamonds And Pearls. 7 was pretty immediate, though most didn't understand the lyrics. The Morning Papers had moderate success, but came pretty late in the game. What else on the album really screamed, "SMASH?"

Yes Frank Dileo was hired by the suggestion of Warner's pr publicist at the time, Jill Willis and Gilbert Davidson... Warners met with Dileo to discuss his promotional ideas which were very calculated to the "masses" everything was hand picked to market to the most appeal... It's one thing to be promoting an album with video specials in Paisley Park, which Prince would do without a promotion advisory regardless... But Frank literally handpicked the most viable promotion sources at the time. He tried to get Prince on the most popular magazines at the, example: SPIN magazine... He booked him for major events like the special olympics, the MTV Video Music Awards, Aersenio Hall, etc... Comparing promotion for Diamonds & Pearls vs. Love Symbol and saying oh he promoted the same is not entirely correct. Yes he promoted for Love Symbol but Frank was in charge of every aspect of promotion for Dimaonds... As a matter of fact It was Dlielo who hinted at Willis there should be a "unique" and special packaging for the D&P album... Which later was revelaed in a meeting with Prince looking at hologram cover for another album and saying he liked to have that as well..

As a matter of fact there started to be friction with the Love Symbol album promotion because Prince wanted to promote a new album right away and sent singles to radios but they refused to play them at the time because they were still playing the songs from Diamonds & Pearls as Dileo and the marketing team pushed WB to release 5 singles in 7 months, which radio was still playing at the time...

Dileo with WB pr team suggested 7 be the lead single, Prince refused... Dileo later got fired by Prince, and WB marketing team Bob Merlis said Prince was saying he wondered if publicists even bothered to prommote singles they didn't want to release. He also stated how WB spent top dollar to promote his other acts even though Prince would go against everything the marketing team tried to suggest...

This has been in many books, Alex Hans book, in addition to Prince: Inside the Music and the Masks...

Is Dileo the main reason that Love Symbol failed to sell, ofc not! But it is a huge factor because for once Prince had a top marketing team that was very strategical which is why and only why he achieved the sales for D&P at the time... The album nor music was nothing groundbreaking, grundge, gangster rap, new jack swing, and the beginning of house music dominated the charts, Prince was following the trends. Not saying it's the only reason but the main reason for the success of D&P was the promotion the shock value, the next day everyone was talking about the assless pants... Not the song Get Off... But the performance... Everything was calculated by Dileo and the marketing team...

During the promotion conflict with Love Symbol he actually blamed WB for not promoting it enough to become a hit, even though as the album was aleady sliding off the charts, he took a few months off to go to Puerto Rico for a break with Mayte.

Prince started trying to promote Love Symbol more vigorously than D&P as the album wasn't performing to expectations... But Prince would reject the marketing teams ideas and Prince took control, editing the ABC In Concert special to two hours, editing the songs, etc...

After Prince failed to cooperate with the marketing team for the Love Symbol release, he never had a platinum album again in the U.S. (Not including THE HITS THE B SIDES released in 1993, which actually WB paid him a million to not interfere with the project or promotiona t all) until Musicology in 2004.

So did he promote Love Symbol more, actually yes he did... Was it promoted as smart and strategical as Dileos promotion with D&P, absolutely not.

[Edited 7/11/18 12:08pm]

[Edited 7/11/18 19:12pm]

the diamonds & pearls aesthetic also might have appealed to many more people and general audience
than the more gritty, kitschy, ott gangsterglam x 20 stylistics of the album era.

diamonds & pearls was 'godfather III meets barbarella' ok, nice

was 'phantom of the opera meets egyptian mythology meets new jack swing meets redlight district' - + chainmask + gunmic

dodger said:

feeluupp said:

He did promote yes... But it wasn't the extent or a calculated plan like D&P... I mean the promotion felt more of Prince doing the stuff that he felt comfortable with, hence being back on Aresenio show since they were friends at the time, and the Ryde Dyvine was at Paisley Park... For D&P it was more mainstream obligated promotion due to the fact Frank Dileo basically booked all the promotion... With Love Symbol it was Prince promoting but promoting by his own standards...

There was a huge mainstream difference in the way those two albums were promoted... A small example is the huge difference in sales as well.

I don't think you can say he promoted Love Symbol any less than D&P. He was previewing some Symbol tracks on the D&P tour and would play most of the album on the Act I tour.

.

The sales for Symbol would have been affected by:

1) The old 'over saturating the market' argument. It was only one year after D&P.

2) The single choices. It was reported WB wanted to release 7 first, which may have fared better on the radio/charts than P's first 2 choices of Sexy M.F followed by My Name Is Prince.

3) The 3 Chains O' Gold movie being released nearly 2 years after the album.

I love the Symbol album but I think the single choices weren't that great.I wonder whose idea it was to release the uneventful "Morning Papers" as a single? Meanwhile,excellent songs like "The Continental" and "And God Created Woman" weren't chosen as singles.Makes no sense.

SoulAlive said:

Silvertongue7 said:

SoulAlive said:

I love the Symbol album but I think the single choices weren't that great.I wonder whose idea it was to release the uneventful "Morning Papers" as a single? Meanwhile,excellent songs like "The Continental" and "And God Created Woman" weren't chosen as singles.Makes no sense.

Sexy MF was a big hit in Europe, but My Name Is Prince killed all the momentum for the album, I think. I couldn’t believe how bad it was when it came out. It’s sort of grown on me a bit since then, but I think it was a terrible choice...

yeah....I think that when it comes to singles,sometimes it's best to let the record company choose them.They know what will 'work' on the radio and what won't.

speaking of that....I recall Prince saying that he wanted to release "Strollin" as a single.....to "chill people out in the summertime".I like the song,but it's not exactly single material

RodeoSchro said:

SoulAlive said:

dodger said:

I don't think you can say he promoted Love Symbol any less than D&P. He was previewing some Symbol tracks on the D&P tour and would play most of the album on the Act I tour.

.

The sales for Symbol would have been affected by:

1) The old 'over saturating the market' argument. It was only one year after D&P.

2) The single choices. It was reported WB wanted to release 7 first, which may have fared better on the radio/charts than P's first 2 choices of Sexy M.F followed by My Name Is Prince.

3) The 3 Chains O' Gold movie being released nearly 2 years after the album.

I love the Symbol album but I think the single choices weren't that great.I wonder whose idea it was to release the uneventful "Morning Papers" as a single? Meanwhile,excellent songs like "The Continental" and "And God Created Woman" weren't chosen as singles.Makes no sense.

The Morning Papers is a masterpiece.

The order of the single choices was poor thou. My Name Is Prince should not have been a single and Sexy M.f. whereas it is another great track couldn't get the radio play for obvious reasons.

7 was the clear choice, with other other singles thereafter including the The Morning Papers.

Total Turkeys:

Thunder

Daddy Pop

Strollin'

Live 4 Love

Push

.

Stone Cold Classics:
Willing And Able

Gett Off

Walk Don't Walk

Money Don't Matter 2Night

Cream

Insatiable

.

Just OK... bit cheesey:

Diamonds & Pearls

[Edited 7/16/18 4:16am]

KAB said:

Near classic.

KAB said:

SoulAlive said:

I love the Symbol album but I think the single choices weren't that great.I wonder whose idea it was to release the uneventful "Morning Papers" as a single? Meanwhile,excellent songs like "The Continental" and "And God Created Woman" weren't chosen as singles.Makes no sense.

The Morning Papers is a masterpiece.

The order of the single choices was poor thou. My Name Is Prince should not have been a single and Sexy M.f. whereas it is another great track couldn't get the radio play for obvious reasons.

7 was the clear choice, with other other singles thereafter including the The Morning Papers.

I dont agree, Sexy MF is the only really great song on the album thus must be a single. My name is Prince was not that bad, it got attention, remember my name is Bart. The morning papers was a serious mistake, total duff song. 7 is very repetitive and far from my favorite, but it's the best of the rest on that album. I even think that Kirky's tell me how you want to be done is the second best thing what came from this album (though indirectly)

"The Morning Papers" is a decent album track,but it's not a strong choice for a single.It was pretty much ignored by pop radio.

TheFman said:

KAB said:

The Morning Papers is a masterpiece.

The order of the single choices was poor thou. My Name Is Prince should not have been a single and Sexy M.f. whereas it is another great track couldn't get the radio play for obvious reasons.

7 was the clear choice, with other other singles thereafter including the The Morning Papers.

I dont agree, Sexy MF is the only really great song on the album thus must be a single. My name is Prince was not that bad, it got attention, remember my name is Bart. The morning papers was a serious mistake, total duff song. 7 is very repetitive and far from my favorite, but it's the best of the rest on that album. I even think that Kirky's tell me how you want to be done is the second best thing what came from this album (though indirectly)

Sexy M.f. is a great great song, I love it, but it could never receive enough airplay (swearing version) to be a hit and therefore promote the album.

The Morning Papers is a great song. It cant be a mistake to release it as the last single thou, album sales would rarely pick up following a single release after over a year.

My Name is Prince is the problem single for this album. Non-fans simply wouldnt "get it"!

SoulAlive said:

"The Morning Papers" is a decent album track,but it's not a strong choice for a single.It was pretty much ignored by pop radio.

It is a classic.

It was the last single from the album and released after the name-change wasn't it thou. Or near enough. Prince had moved on and as with many a great song / album if Prince wasn't actively promoting it then the sales would naturally be lower.

KAB said:

SoulAlive said:

"The Morning Papers" is a decent album track,but it's not a strong choice for a single.It was pretty much ignored by pop radio.

It is a classic.

It was the last single from the album and released after the name-change wasn't it thou. Or near enough. Prince had moved on and as with many a great song / album if Prince wasn't actively promoting it then the sales would naturally be lower.

.

It's also a song about being in love with a school girl... so, umm....

KAB said:

SoulAlive said:

"The Morning Papers" is a decent album track,but it's not a strong choice for a single.It was pretty much ignored by pop radio.

It is a classic.

It was the last single from the album and released after the name-change wasn't it thou. Or near enough. Prince had moved on and as with many a great song / album if Prince wasn't actively promoting it then the sales would naturally be lower.

It's very radio-unfriendly: after the first refrain comes a rather lenghty (and rather flat) instrumental part. It's not Child in Time or such classic songs that can allow it.

But on a general note: almost all Prince songs that starts with a-capella refrain or title dropping are total turkeys. Morning papers, Thunder, Baltimore, and handful of others. When i heard a new song and it starts that way, i knew what i was in for, and it never was fancy.

[Edited 7/17/18 12:28pm]

KAB said:

SoulAlive said:

"The Morning Papers" is a decent album track,but it's not a strong choice for a single.It was pretty much ignored by pop radio.

It is a classic.

It was the last single from the album and released after the name-change wasn't it thou. Or near enough. Prince had moved on and as with many a great song / album if Prince wasn't actively promoting it then the sales would naturally be lower.

it was actually released in early 1993....around the time that Prince began his 'Act 1' Tour in the US.

james said:

KAB said:

It is a classic.

It was the last single from the album and released after the name-change wasn't it thou. Or near enough. Prince had moved on and as with many a great song / album if Prince wasn't actively promoting it then the sales would naturally be lower.

.

It's also a song about being in love with a school girl... so, umm....

Not sure. A schoolboy's fantasy but doesnt mean she was a school girl.

album is confusing in terms of the age of Mayte's character. But at least 16, probably 18. Mirroring her joining the NPG.

[Edited 7/18/18 2:08am]

[Edited 7/18/18 2:13am]

TheFman said:

KAB said:

It is a classic.

It was the last single from the album and released after the name-change wasn't it thou. Or near enough. Prince had moved on and as with many a great song / album if Prince wasn't actively promoting it then the sales would naturally be lower.

It's very radio-unfriendly: after the first refrain comes a rather lenghty (and rather flat) instrumental part. It's not Child in Time or such classic songs that can allow it.

But on a general note: almost all Prince songs that starts with a-capella refrain or title dropping are total turkeys. Morning papers, Thunder, Baltimore, and handful of others. When i heard a new song and it starts that way, i knew what i was in for, and it never was fancy.

[Edited 7/17/18 12:28pm]

Title-dropping?

I think it is well-crafted, nicely paced.