If anything, seeing glimpses of Prince the man in those awful documents (yes, I am reading some of them), makes the distant, objectified love I feel for him and his music a bit more personal, almost protective.

As I find and listen to deeper and deeper cuts these past 2 years, it blows my mind a little more every day that an actual person walked this earth and did what he actually did. That Prince was very, very human makes what he accomplished more amazing to me, not less. Nothing will ever change that.

benni said:

purplefam99 said:

Wanted to say I read the thread and commented as I read. I’m Not trying to jump on you Benni with my post above. I shared the book To be helpful. I hope it came across that way. Best.

Purplefam, I appreciate the reference. However, he is not talking about anger that comes from the grieving process, but rather the type of anger that causes individuals to "behave violently and exploitatively". He also stated that anger should not be suppressed and to view it as a "gift to connect to unmet needs". Having said that, it appears that someone feeling angry towards Prince makes others very uncomfortable.

Anger is a natural process of grieving. It is a natural reaction to certain things in our life. Someone comes up to you and punches you in the face for no reason, you are bound to get angry, and rightly so. A boyfriend/girlfriend breaks up with you when you were thinking that everything was going wonderfully, you're apt to feel hurt and angry about it. Is there an unmet need there? Yes, there is, however, it's a natural part of healing and letting go.

My feeling angry toward Prince is lessening every day. It was never a "How dare he! I'm so angry I could spit nails, hit something, throw something..." type of anger, but more of a "This is so senseless, it didn't have to happen," type of anger.

The reactions of some to someone expressing feeling anger towards Prince just shows how protective some are towards Prince even now. These expressions of protection towards Prince are no different than Kirk J feeling protective of Prince and trying to guard him and his privacy, and thereby enabling his continued use of these opioids. These expressions of protection towards Prince are no different than those that he surrounded himself with that constantly said "yes" and continued to enable him. Prince needed someone around him that would get angry with him and tell him "no! enough is enough." He didn't have that around him because he was Prince and everyone tiptoed around him, trying to protect him, and also to protect their own positions around him.

People are saying Prince needed love and compassion around him. I feel both love and compassion towards Prince. But I'm also being real. An addict (which I never thought I would ever use that word to describe Prince - and I have fought against using that word, until I discovered the years of use, the years of hiding his use and I refuse to enable him even in death) needs tough love, not to be handled with kid gloves.

People are saying he had a tough childhood, he was essentially abandoned. A lot of people have had tough childhoods, have been abandoned. I was one of those. For Prince though, it is an excuse to say, "It's okay that he used drugs, because he had a rough childhood. It's okay, we forgive him. It's okay because he was in a lot of pain and he needed them." Bull. It's not okay. He was self-medicating all these years, instead of him actually reaching out to doctors on a regular basis and being treated appropriately for his pain. He was having others get him pain pills in their names, instead of going to a doctor himself and being treated. That's not okay. Many of us live with chronic pain, too, but we get the appropriate treatment and have that treatment monitored by a physician. Instead he was hiding pills, he was hiding his addiction, and there was no one around him that knew what was happening that would brave his wrath to get him the help he needed, until it was too late. They were all saying, "It's okay. It's Prince. We have to protect him, help him protect his image and his privacy. He's someone that needs our love and our compassion, so we'll just work to protect him through this." (And thereby enable him).

the bolded bit above is all i was suggesting that might be helpful when trying to decipher the source of anger. i do understand it is part of the process as well.

And this might be a stretch of a connection but here goes. Peter himself denied God 3 times and

is seen no less great in the eyes of the church. Peter loved God with all his heart yet he denied Jesus

one of his best friends!!! He believed in what Jesus was saying and doing yet he was human and

scared. I believe that Prince is afforded the same humanity and i believe he knew what was good

and true. I can't be angry with him for being human. Like i said i do know it is part of the process though. And i agree it is not ok what he did but it is ok he is human and even in his mistake he is

a child of God. And thankfully for all of us God sees all sins as equal. So his lie of drug use is no

bigger in God's eye than any of ours.

xo

MattyJam said:

purplefam99 said:

benni said:

Purplefam, I appreciate the reference. However, he is not talking about anger that comes from the grieving process, but rather the type of anger that causes individuals to "behave violently and exploitatively". He also stated that anger should not be suppressed and to view it as a "gift to connect to unmet needs". Having said that, it appears that someone feeling angry towards Prince makes others very uncomfortable.

Anger is a natural process of grieving. It is a natural reaction to certain things in our life. Someone comes up to you and punches you in the face for no reason, you are bound to get angry, and rightly so. A boyfriend/girlfriend breaks up with you when you were thinking that everything was going wonderfully, you're apt to feel hurt and angry about it. Is there an unmet need there? Yes, there is, however, it's a natural part of healing and letting go.

My feeling angry toward Prince is lessening every day. It was never a "How dare he! I'm so angry I could spit nails, hit something, throw something..." type of anger, but more of a "This is so senseless, it didn't have to happen," type of anger.

The reactions of some to someone expressing feeling anger towards Prince just shows how protective some are towards Prince even now. These expressions of protection towards Prince are no different than Kirk J feeling protective of Prince and trying to guard him and his privacy, and thereby enabling his continued use of these opioids. These expressions of protection towards Prince are no different than those that he surrounded himself with that constantly said "yes" and continued to enable him. Prince needed someone around him that would get angry with him and tell him "no! enough is enough." He didn't have that around him because he was Prince and everyone tiptoed around him, trying to protect him, and also to protect their own positions around him.

People are saying Prince needed love and compassion around him. I feel both love and compassion towards Prince. But I'm also being real. An addict (which I never thought I would ever use that word to describe Prince - and I have fought against using that word, until I discovered the years of use, the years of hiding his use and I refuse to enable him even in death) needs tough love, not to be handled with kid gloves.

People are saying he had a tough childhood, he was essentially abandoned. A lot of people have had tough childhoods, have been abandoned. I was one of those. For Prince though, it is an excuse to say, "It's okay that he used drugs, because he had a rough childhood. It's okay, we forgive him. It's okay because he was in a lot of pain and he needed them." Bull. It's not okay. He was self-medicating all these years, instead of him actually reaching out to doctors on a regular basis and being treated appropriately for his pain. He was having others get him pain pills in their names, instead of going to a doctor himself and being treated. That's not okay. Many of us live with chronic pain, too, but we get the appropriate treatment and have that treatment monitored by a physician. Instead he was hiding pills, he was hiding his addiction, and there was no one around him that knew what was happening that would brave his wrath to get him the help he needed, until it was too late. They were all saying, "It's okay. It's Prince. We have to protect him, help him protect his image and his privacy. He's someone that needs our love and our compassion, so we'll just work to protect him through this." (And thereby enable him).

the bolded bit above is all i was suggesting that might be helpful when trying to decipher the source of anger. i do understand it is part of the process as well.

And this might be a stretch of a connection but here goes.

Peter himself denied God 3 times and

is seen no less great in the eyes of the church. Peter loved God with all his heart yet he denied Jesus

one of his best friends!!!

He believed in what Jesus was saying and doing yet he was human and

scared. I believe that Prince is afforded the same humanity and i believe he knew what was good

and true.

I can't be angry with him for being human.

Like i said i do know it is part of the process though.
And i agree it is not ok what he did but it is ok he is human and even in his mistake he is

a child of God. And thankfully for all of us God sees all sins as equal. So his lie of drug use is no

bigger in God's eye than any of ours.

xo

Morgaine said:

MattyJam said:

Yes, it has changed my view on how I perceive his life. I used to think Prince had everything, talent, money, charisma, fame, success... but knowing how it all ended for him, I wouldn't trade places with him in a million years.

By all accounts, he seemed very unhappy and unfulfilled towards the end of his life and personal happiness and contentment is all I aspire to achieve out of life, so that envious part of me that used to think Prince had it all has now gone. I feel an immense amount of sadness for Prince, and how he gave his life over to the music, but never managed to cultivate a meaningful life away from that, with a partner or children of his own.

At the end of the day, it's people and the relationships we have that make us happy as we get older. I don't envy Prince being in his mid-fifties, alone at Paisley, without a life partner or children, writing music for the sake of writing music, surrounded by people on the payroll. It just doesn't sound like a life with a lot of joy in it. And that's not factoring in the other personal health problems he was contending with.

[Edited 4/23/18 12:19pm]

I agree with everything you said. I'd also add, I love him more now and have deep sadness and empathy for him.

Does someone have the infamous gif of the girl crying under her office desk?
I'm sorry for being mean, but come ON...

Ow c'm'on. Atlanta? Hello?
Can't you at least get a smile from Prince in his latter year, even days?
What' with all this unhappiness thang?

A man who believes in future soul songs is bound to find
some kind of revelation that is a little above my comprehension and yours,
all things being equal. If the practice of a single instrument does things to your brain...
Prince practiced every single talent he thought he had.

Don't presuppose, or think poor of the inner strength Prince had.
Staying alone doesn't mean staying sad.
Prince's music was all about soul. A good mind with a good heart,
it is heartbreaking. Be angry at the ones you should be.

A lonely person doesn't necessarily mean a sad person.
I'm not saying Reelz moments did not happen.
They sure make the mind reel.

Iif his introspection was making him reconsider all
the well-not-so-nice-things-to-put-it-mildly stuff he fell like he did to others,
even if involuntarily, even if it wasn't his fault he had so little time
and so many ideas and abandoned drafts on the way,
here's a man who was getting back in touch with everyone.

I'm sure after a while he would have asked an old friend:
"Err... And so, what do you do when you're stuck in the snow?"

I implore you not to be sad or angry,
I'll sing a silly pleading gospel if you want.
With french niçoises maracas if I must.

There are so many moments in Prince's work
that funnily mock, boldly defy, or beautifully accept
death, and all the tears and fears that come with it.
Call it death, call it evil, call it all that's wrong with the world.

Me, I'll sing'em when I'm 64.
Heck, when I'm 1999.
Man I learned my lesson back in the day,
when 86 days made me sometimes feel like a motherless child.

It's Christopher Tracy's "Well I ain't afraid of shit".
It blasted in the 86 days on this empty parisian theater screen,
with a fork of pasta (you gonna eat dat?).
The beam entering the Nice restaurant was God's.

Like the Great Pumpkin, it's a simple belief. It's a good belief.
It would do you no harm.


Maybe you're just afraid of bats.

[Edited 4/27/18 1:08am]

anangellooksdown said:

I see him as much more human.

his songs are scriptures to me

I have much more sympathy for him as this all humanized him to me much more than I would have though.

Since TRC, I've been frustrated and angry with many of his whackado and intolerant beliefs and opnions, his condecending attitude towards other artist and the music industry in general and many of his commercial choices. With AOA and PE and his collaborations with 3EG, I started seeing the old, gentle, more open and accepting Prince coming back little by little.

I'm still hell of angry with him for not having his affairs in order and dread the coming years and years of legal challenges around the estate etc but I see him much more as a brilliant human that I am proud to have folllowed for over 30 years.

Looking forward to what ever small gems (e.g. the amazing rehersal footage) the estate will be able to release.

No, it hasd not. Yes, Prince was not perfect. But who is? We all make mistakes. Sometimes those mistakes will cost you a lot. My feelings for Prince will never change.

The thing that is upsetting too is the so called inner circle & associates just milking this for everything....cherry on the cake being Tyka oushing her book 3 times on Oz TV! What the hell was P surrounded by....I guess no different to Elvis & many others. Still shocked that he forced others to get his pills BUT sympathetic to his physical pain...although fucking angry that he thought he could control even this.

Mixed emotions man.

My perception has not changed at all, always loved him, always will. He was human just like the rest of us. Only wished he had gotten help to control his addiction sooner, but at least he is no longer in pain anymore. I wish some people would stop acting like he was a sad and lonely person just because he wasn't married or had children though. You don't need that just to be happy in life and some people choose to be single and childfree and as long as they are happy with that, then that is all that matters. It is THEIR life choice not anyone else's. If he wanted to get married again or have kids, he would've, plain and simple. Just let it be, none of that even matters anymore. He is at peace now.

bonatoc said:

Morgaine said:

MattyJam said: I agree with everything you said. I'd also add, I love him more now and have deep sadness and empathy for him.

Does someone have the infamous gif of the girl crying under her office desk?
I'm sorry for being mean, but come ON...

Ow c'm'on. Atlanta? Hello?
Can't you at least get a smile from Prince in his latter year, even days?
What' with all this unhappiness thang?

A man who believes in future soul songs is bound to find
some kind of revelation that is a little above my comprehension and yours,
all things being equal. If the practice of a single instrument does things to your brain...
Prince practiced every single talent he thought he had.

Don't presuppose, or think poor of the inner strength Prince had.
Staying alone doesn't mean staying sad.
Prince's music was all about soul. A good mind with a good heart,
it is heartbreaking. Be angry at the ones you should be.

A lonely person doesn't necessarily mean a sad person.
I'm not saying Reelz moments did not happen.
They sure make the mind reel.

Iif his introspection was making him reconsider all
the well-not-so-nice-things-to-put-it-mildly stuff he fell like he did to others,
even if involuntarily, even if it wasn't his fault he had so little time
and so many ideas and abandoned drafts on the way,
here's a man who was getting back in touch with everyone.

I'm sure after a while he would have asked an old friend:
"Err... And so, what do you do when you're stuck in the snow?"

I implore you not to be sad or angry,
I'll sing a silly pleading gospel if you want.
With french niçoises maracas if I must.

There are so many moments in Prince's work
that funnily mock, boldly defy, or beautifully accept
death, and all the tears and fears that come with it.
Call it death, call it evil, call it all that's wrong with the world.

Me, I'll sing'em when I'm 64.
Heck, when I'm 1999.
Man I learned my lesson back in the day,
when 86 days made me sometimes feel like a motherless child.

It's Christopher Tracy's "Well I ain't afraid of shit".
It blasted in the 86 days on this empty parisian theater screen,
with a fork of pasta (you gonna eat dat?).
The beam entering the Nice restaurant was God's.

Like the Great Pumpkin, it's a simple belief. It's a good belief.
It would do you no harm.


Maybe you're just afraid of bats.

[Edited 4/27/18 1:08am]

Ain't you tired, Miss Hilly? , ain't you tired. Beautifully writen, but you already knew that, don't you. Especially the bolded line.

https://youtu.be/ezE8BehBtZA......is this supposed to be funny....

I've yet to get through all of the material released by the cops. But I've seen enough that I predict I will look at him a bit differently. But I'll still be a fan/fam.

MattyJam said:

Yes, it has changed my view on how I perceive his life. I used to think Prince had everything, talent, money, charisma, fame, success... but knowing how it all ended for him, I wouldn't trade places with him in a million years.

By all accounts, he seemed very unhappy and unfulfilled towards the end of his life and personal happiness and contentment is all I aspire to achieve out of life, so that envious part of me that used to think Prince had it all has now gone. I feel an immense amount of sadness for Prince, and how he gave his life over to the music, but never managed to cultivate a meaningful life away from that, with a partner or children of his own.

At the end of the day, it's people and the relationships we have that make us happy as we get older. I don't envy Prince being in his mid-fifties, alone at Paisley, without a life partner or children, writing music for the sake of writing music, surrounded by people on the payroll. It just doesn't sound like a life with a lot of joy in it. And that's not factoring in the other personal health problems he was contending with.

[Edited 4/23/18 12:19pm]

No, it does not change a thing, but I do agree with you that I too am sad he did not have those relationships in his life.

Seahorsie said:

MattyJam said:

Yes, it has changed my view on how I perceive his life. I used to think Prince had everything, talent, money, charisma, fame, success... but knowing how it all ended for him, I wouldn't trade places with him in a million years.

By all accounts, he seemed very unhappy and unfulfilled towards the end of his life and personal happiness and contentment is all I aspire to achieve out of life, so that envious part of me that used to think Prince had it all has now gone. I feel an immense amount of sadness for Prince, and how he gave his life over to the music, but never managed to cultivate a meaningful life away from that, with a partner or children of his own.

At the end of the day, it's people and the relationships we have that make us happy as we get older. I don't envy Prince being in his mid-fifties, alone at Paisley, without a life partner or children, writing music for the sake of writing music, surrounded by people on the payroll. It just doesn't sound like a life with a lot of joy in it. And that's not factoring in the other personal health problems he was contending with.

[Edited 4/23/18 12:19pm]

No, it does not change a thing, but I do agree with you that I too am sad he did not have those relationships in his life.

sad too BUT that's the way he wanted it alas.He loved the ladies & was a player right to end [Any A, Jill & I think many others] so committment to 1 was impossible [he tried it & failed!] Likewise as is the case with many uber famous folks their lives are filled with hangers on & vultures....inevitably deciding who to trust is impossible.

A reporter recently stated that it was surprising how many people stated that Prince was their friend even though none of these friends seemed to know one another and of course the way he died. then he said an interesting thing--not one person knew more than 15% of Prince. I now think Prince was even more compartmentalized than i did before and I feel even more sadness for him. I am as confused as ever about Prince, but now I see the vulnerability I always assumed was there and how he combated that vulnerability(leave before you are left, rig the game, form bonds you can control but keep certain things private from each and everyone of them). Sad and fearful way of living. He probably broke hearts left and right(and hopefully sometimes mended them) . But it seems like the one he broke the most was his own..the deepest type of loneliness is the one you caused yourself..(the lyrics to 'There is lonely" express this kind of shameful loneliness so well.)

About his associates--I am confused and disappointed and praying they defend themselves and express regret and concern instead just making bank of the seemingly self-promoting "Celebrations". And people said Prince was self-involved and egotistical..As he would say "Tsk tsk" because obviously he wasn't the only one. Shelby seems cool, but she refers to herself in the third person on her website even more than Prince did in any of his concerts...LOL>

[Edited 4/29/18 17:49pm]

Mintchip said:

Does anyone know what the weird white powder, from the declassified pictures, actually was? I know the spoon was a little art model, but what was the powder?

I don't think it said. Does not actually matter anyhow. I am not looking at any more of those, have moved on this weekend to just diving into the music of his genius.

Mintchip said:

Does anyone know what the weird white powder, from the declassified pictures, actually was? I know the spoon was a little art model, but what was the powder?

There was another picture, taken from further back, which showed white stuff on the floor further away from where that was stored. I'm assuming that it came from the ceiling, maybe a leak in the ceiling or something caused plaster to fall.

purplerabbithole said:

A reporter recently stated that it was surprising how many people stated that Prince was their friend even though none of these friends seemed to know one another and of course the way he died. then he said an interesting thing--not one person knew more than 15% of Prince. I now think Prince was even more compartmentalized than i did before and I feel even more sadness for him. I am as confused as ever about Prince, but now I see the vulnerability I always assumed was there and how he combated that nulnerability(leave before you are left, rig the game, form bonds you can control but keep things private from each and everyone of them).

About his associates--I am confused and disappointed and praying they defend themselves and express regret and concern instead the seemingly "Celebrations". And people said Prince was self-involved and egotistical..As he would say "Tsk tsk" because obviously he wasn't the only one.

[Edited 4/29/18 15:43pm]

some of those aspects i personally don't really mourn prince for, I mean many of us have bad childhoods and in my case i've left a lot of it all behind. we do have some choice in things, I remember a real life changing even for me was watching my mom on life support and realizing how she let a few childhood issues rule her life and it just seemed so wasteful to me, sad and wasteful. As far as his getting rid of people, i've had friends who've had drug issues do that to me, it's hurtful because they make you some kind of villain and just dog you out when they are really just projecting their own shame, it's enough to make me not accept any drug or alcohol addled people into my life anymore, too many problems and it ends with a new enemy every time. no good.

purplerabbithole said:

A reporter recently stated that it was surprising how many people stated that Prince was their friend even though none of these friends seemed to know one another and of course the way he died. then he said an interesting thing--not one person knew more than 15% of Prince. I now think Prince was even more compartmentalized than i did before and I feel even more sadness for him. I am as confused as ever about Prince, but now I see the vulnerability I always assumed was there and how he combated that vulnerability(leave before you are left, rig the game, form bonds you can control but keep certain things private from each and everyone of them). Sad and fearful way of living. He probably broke hearts left and right(and hopefully sometimes mended them) . But it seems like the one he broke the most was his own..the deepest type of loneliness is the one you caused yourself..(the lyrics to 'There is lonely" express this kind of shameful loneliness so well.)

About his associates--I am confused and disappointed and praying they defend themselves and express regret and concern instead just making bank of the seemingly self-promoting "Celebrations". And people said Prince was self-involved and egotistical..As he would say "Tsk tsk" because obviously he wasn't the only one. Shelby seems cool, but she refers to herself in the third person on her website even more than Prince did in any of his concerts...LOL>

[Edited 4/29/18 17:49pm]

"everybody's tryin to break my heart....everyone... except me"

everyone except FOR me

luvsexy4all said:

purplerabbithole said:

A reporter recently stated that it was surprising how many people stated that Prince was their friend even though none of these friends seemed to know one another and of course the way he died. then he said an interesting thing--not one person knew more than 15% of Prince. I now think Prince was even more compartmentalized than i did before and I feel even more sadness for him. I am as confused as ever about Prince, but now I see the vulnerability I always assumed was there and how he combated that vulnerability(leave before you are left, rig the game, form bonds you can control but keep certain things private from each and everyone of them). Sad and fearful way of living. He probably broke hearts left and right(and hopefully sometimes mended them) . But it seems like the one he broke the most was his own..the deepest type of loneliness is the one you caused yourself..(the lyrics to 'There is lonely" express this kind of shameful loneliness so well.)

About his associates--I am confused and disappointed and praying they defend themselves and express regret and concern instead just making bank of the seemingly self-promoting "Celebrations". And people said Prince was self-involved and egotistical..As he would say "Tsk tsk" because obviously he wasn't the only one. Shelby seems cool, but she refers to herself in the third person on her website even more than Prince did in any of his concerts...LOL>

[Edited 4/29/18 17:49pm]

"everybody's tryin to break my heart....everyone... except me"

Good point. A man as compartmentalized in terms of what sides of himself he showed as well as how he managed his personal life--is it possible that people really did not know entirely how bad his addiction was. I think everyone knew or suspected he had a pain pill past, but knowing when and how he was on the stuff may have been tough to figure out if you were one of his newer friends or long distance friends. And knowing how to confront him about it and still remain a part of his world must have been really confusing. People need their jobs but they also can justify inaction or subtle action due to the fact that being excommunicated or just leaving wouldn't stop his behavior necessarily if it it not done correctly or without enough support from others who also know the same things you know. I think maybe he was more loved than people want to say in the investigation thread. He was just confounding and skittish and therefore to be a part of his life in anyway you had to let him have those boundaries and leave when things got too crazy. He was hard work. Prince needed psychaitry more than friends who were pushy. Because after all, pushy friends were excised from his life when they upset the cart too much. What good are you to Prince if you are excluded from his life. Enablers suck when they are callous but how much of the enabling was intentional and just motivated by greed alone is harder to figure out when looking at someone like Prince. After all, he wasn't the typical guy who just conducted himself consistently around everyone. I worked with autistic kids and they can be skittish. (Prince might be on that spectrum but I think he also had some abandonment and trust issues as well) If an autistic kid is having a meltdown due to anxiety, you can either jump at them or keep your distance to insure that they don't run. Jumping at them to restrain them when they are hurting themselves often can make things worse if you jump to that reaction too soon. One student I worked with left the school building and was walking briskly down a city street-- had I ran towards him too quickly to get him back in the building, he would have run more and could have hurt himself. I had to take baby steps and convince him subtlely to return to school--I had to make him think it was his idea. Prince's problem was intensified by his obsession with controlling the settings around him. He was a vulnerable man emotionally but a powerful man economically and personally and his self-defense mechanisms had a powerful hold on him.

LovePaisley said:

In that journalist meetup at First Ave., Neal Karlen said he'd never known a person as compartmentalized as Prince. His closest friends didn't know who his other closest friends were. If anyone would know, it'd be Neal, after 32 years. So that's not to say Prince didn't have friends, it just seems he had them one-on-one, because that worked for him. Neal hasn't said much--which I respect him for very much--but he did mention late night conversations of life and death and "existential angst." I've had friends for decades that I wouldn't/couldn't have those kinds of deep, deep, discussions with. Who's to say what's better or worse, more or less than anything else?

[Edited 4/30/18 19:56pm]

[Edited 4/30/18 19:58pm]

Over more than 40 years as a Pfan, my perception/love for him has always changed along the way...I suspect that is the nature of thing...Changed, but still significant and still there...always has been, always will bes...But then, being able to see the good and bad, acknowledge it, and still love...isn't that the point?...

Just a thought...

LovePaisley said:

In that journalist meetup at First Ave., Neal Karlen said he'd never known a person as compartmentalized as Prince. His closest friends didn't know who his other closest friends were. If anyone would know, it'd be Neal, after 32 years. So that's not to say Prince didn't have friends, it just seems he had them one-on-one, because that worked for him.

Neal hasn't said much--which I respect him for very much--but he did mention late night conversations of life and death and "existential angst." I've had friends for decades that I wouldn't/couldn't have those kinds of deep, deep, discussions with. Who's to say what's better or worse, more or less than anything else?

This makes sense.

LBrent said:

Over more than 40 years as a Pfan, my perception/love for him has always changed along the way...I suspect that is the nature of thing...Changed, but still significant and still there...always has been, always will bes...But then, being able to see the good and bad, acknowledge it, and still love...isn't that the point?...

Just a thought...

LBrent said:

Neither.

I learned at a very young age that there is a painful side to the world of entertainment. From the blood and broken flesh in my pointe ballet shoes to my mother's suddenly deceased partner (who was also a celebrity) and many other artists gone way too early, I already knew that the strive for perfection comes at a cost.

This is not surprising: in order to 'become' a celebrity (their new identity), the artists sacrifice sometimes a little bit, sometimes a lot of themselves. The show business will not allow you to be your true self because it wants to $ell an illusion and not the truth.

Those who refuse to acknowledge this fact whilst continuing to believe the illusion are the real hypocrites. Prince himself warned us about all this. He too paid the cost but at the end of the day behind his invicible and illusory artist personna, there was a human with real pains. Nothing better, nothing worse.

CherryMoon57 said:

Neither.

I learned at a very young age that there is a painful side to the world of entertainment. From the blood and broken flesh in my pointe ballet shoes to my mother's suddenly deceased partner (who was also a celebrity) and many other artists gone way too early, I already knew that the strive for perfection comes at a cost.

This is not surprising: in order to 'become' a celebrity (their new identity), the artists sacrifice sometimes a little bit, sometimes a lot of themselves. The show business will not allow you to be your true self because it wants to $ell an illusion and not the truth.

Those who refuse to acknowledge this fact whilst continuing to believe the illusion are the real hypocrites. Prince himself warned us about all this. He too paid the cost but at the end of the day behind his invicible and illusory artist personna, there was a human with real pains. Nothing better, nothing worse.

very good point & thansk you for sharing your own experiences. Looking at the way Avicii sadly passed is all too a painful reminder of how showbiz works.

Personally speaking my sadness / anger comes from the fact that he was so rich [surprisingly so IMHO] & frankly could have walked away for a few years & released vault stuff whilst in recovery. The self care button was non existent as he continued to play health roulette in the pursuit of $, fame & his art.