MMJas said:

paulludvig said:

PennyPurple said: I think they tipped him over on his back when they pulled him out of the elevator. In the pictures you can see his right arm is not laying close to his body, but standing out due to rigor mortis.

The thing is, I think Andrew stated that before Prince was taken out of the elevator, he saw him laying down on his side.
And that Chief Johnson stated that when he arrived, Kirk lead him to the elevator, opened the door of the elevator and Chief Johnson saw Prince inside laying on his back, with arms to his side.

This was before he was dragged out.

There seem to be many discrepancies in the whole thing, imo.

What page of the report does Chief Johnson say that?

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

PennyPurple said:

I'm also wondering why the Police would just let people into PP while Prince was still laying there? Shouldn't they have told people they couldn't come in? The Weltons were there, Tyka and her family showed up.

I think it should've been, no in, no one out.

They were not inside.

They were outside of PP.

This thread has now turned into hysteria.

No they weren't they were inside sitting on a couch. The Weltons, I think Tyka and her family were kept outside.

[Edited 4/22/18 13:19pm]

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

MMJas said:

The thing is, I think Andrew stated that before Prince was taken out of the elevator, he saw him laying down on his side.
And that Chief Johnson stated that when he arrived, Kirk lead him to the elevator, opened the door of the elevator and Chief Johnson saw Prince inside laying on his back, with arms to his side.

This was before he was dragged out.

There seem to be many discrepancies in the whole thing, imo.

What page of the report does Chief Johnson say that?

I will go back and try to locate it for you.

I could have read it wrong, that's why I was asking here if I had read it right....

poppys said:

Wonder why Kim B and Bobby Z didn't return police calls??

ThatWhiteDude said:

With all that's coming out right now, I'm starting to side with Penny regarding the associates, tho I'd make some exceptions.......like the people who got blocked when they tried to reach out for him. I can't blame them for things they didn't have the power to prevent.

But I never fully trusted Kirk and now I really start to hate this guy. I'm downloading the rest of the files now.

Just wait til you read them.

cloveringold85 said:

XxAxX said:

i feel bad that we ORGers were likely also part of why he drove himself so hard and worked so hard at keeping up his image when he was feeling so bad.

we can blame his close associates all we like, but the truth is that Prince is known to have spent time on this site and there were some truly malicious things said about him here.

maybe he felt he coulodn't let his guard down with so many ugly ill-wishers lurking around, poking fun at everything from his hair to his music.

i'm sorry i ever even posted on those joke threads about did he have a rib removed? does he really have six toes? and so on.

i never really believed he was here. nor that he was in any way at all emotionally or physically fragile.

going forward in life i'm going to be super extra careful what i say - even in jest - to anyone here and elsewhere.

.

The Org was probably the least of Prince's worries, after reading how his associates treated him!!

PennyPurple said:

ThatWhiteDude said:

With all that's coming out right now, I'm starting to side with Penny regarding the associates, tho I'd make some exceptions.......like the people who got blocked when they tried to reach out for him. I can't blame them for things they didn't have the power to prevent.

But I never fully trusted Kirk and now I really start to hate this guy. I'm downloading the rest of the files now.

Just wait til you read them.

You know what's really fucked? Johnson wanted to help Prince, or at least that's what they wanted us to believe. There is a clinic just seven minutes away from Paisly Park. It would've taken them 7 minutes to get Prince the help he needed and they didn't give a fuck. I can't believe what's coming out right now. Good lord I hope I'm going to meet better friends in life!

cloveringold85 said:

PennyPurple said:

No names were mentioned.

.

Metz said Prince's enablers were Dr. Schulenberg and Kirk. And, it probably pained him to tell everyone that no arrests will occur, because they were unable to find the source of the illegal pills.

.

Now, this is not to say that individual investigator's won't continue to take statements and do their own investigative work. We can only hope.

.

If someone is responsible for given Prince those pills, they need to be held accountable. If not by Man, then by God -- some day.

AMEN

MMJas said:

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

What page of the report does Chief Johnson say that?

I will go back and try to locate it for you.

I could have read it wrong, that's why I was asking here if I had read it right....

Ok. So Page 132, numbers 55 and 56, for Andrew.

Page 138, number 93 for Chief Johnson.

Also, Manuela stated that Omar told her that Kirk told him that the overnight security guard was the one who found Prince in the elevator. (Page 169, number 275)

MMJas said:

MMJas said:

I will go back and try to locate it for you.

I could have read it wrong, that's why I was asking here if I had read it right....

Ok. So Page 132, numbers 55 and 56, for Andrew.

Page 138, number 93 for Chief Johnson.

Thanks!

MMJas said:

I'm interested in only reading the interviews that the police conducted. Is there just a link with the interviews of the weltons, etc all.? If so would someone be kind enough to post or point me in the right direction. I don't want to download the pictures by accident.

PennyPurple said:

I'm also wondering why the Police would just let people into PP while Prince was still laying there? Shouldn't they have told people they couldn't come in? The Weltons were there, Tyka and her family showed up.

I think it should've been, no in, no one out.

.

Yes, and I've stated this from the beginning that PP was not secured -- there were people walking in and out of there, until they had the search warrant. This is very suprising, considering Police always keep people away from a scene of a crime/death, etc.

.

Lots of things weren't handeled properly on April 21st, and thereafter.

PennyPurple said:

MMJas said:

If that indeed happened, which we don't know if it did, it was out of love, imo. Not wanting Prince to being found out that way.

Out of love to clean him up redress him and throw him in the elevator?

.

You never touch a deceased person's body, especially if the person died without any witnesses! Maybe Kirk was in shock and was freaking-out, but that is a very odd thing to do, especially when you don't know what happened or you could be interfering with an investigation. But, that's just me and my line of thinking anyways....

cloveringold85 said:

PennyPurple said:

Out of love to clean him up redress him and throw him in the elevator?

.

You never touch a deceased person's body, especially if the person died without any witnesses! Maybe Kirk was in shock and was freaking-out, but that is a very odd thing to do, especially when you don't know what happened or you could be interfering with an investigation. But, that's just me and my line of thinking anyways....

And I totally agree with your line of thinking.

LOVESYMBOLNUMBER2 said:

PennyPurple said:

Out of love to clean him up redress him and throw him in the elevator?

If prince was soiled in some fashion and Kirk cleaned him and or changed his clothes, wouldn't the dirty clothes and or towels used to clean him be somewhere? And I thought he had been wearing the exact clothing he had last been seen in. It would have been hard for Kirk to do all that and redress him as he had been dressed the night before...it is interesting that it seems no one can remember what he looked like, seems to me that would be a detailed image that you would never be able to forget...but apparently the whole damn bunch has some type of amnesia

.

Yup! All of them miraculously came down with SAD......Sudden Amnesia Disorder.....(not trying to be funny), but it's true!

bondno9 said:

MMJas said:

In the report Andrew stated that he saw Prince inside the elevator, laying on his side, like he had just layed down. (As opposed to having fall down, I guess?)
Then later in the report it says Kirk takes Chief Johnson (the medical staff that arrived at the scene) to the elevator and Chief Johnson states that Prince is lying on his back with the arms down to his sides.
I know there are 200 odd pages in that report and I'm still reading it, but is this right or did I read it wrong?

Nope. I read the same thing was like, hold up ... paramedics said upon arrival he was OUTSIDE the elevator (after being moved by Johnson) but his left hand was on the floor and right had on his abdomen ... AND he was "stiff" (couldn't move limbs) ... soooo ummm how were arms down to his sides INSIDE the elevator but after the body was moved they somehow became "moveable"???? That's crime scene 101: NEVER MOVE THE BODY!!!!

[Edited 4/22/18 12:20pm]

Right.. the correct sequence of events is *I think*:

Kirk goes looking for Prince... comes back looking nervous, according to Andrew, and goes off with Meron to get Prince.

Andrew hears Meron scream and goes to see Prince laying in the elevator on his side. It appears to Andrew that rigor has already *started* to set in and he believes Prince is already dead and calls 911.

The fire chief is the first repsonder to arrive. Prince is still *warm to the touch* but the chief is unsure whether that means Prince had just stopped breathing recently OR he was warm because of the ambient temperature in the elevator. Either way, he proceeds to start life saving measures which includes pulling Prince OUT of the elevator (the rug in the elevator comes wth Prince and is crumpled underneath him).

When the EMT arrives, they quickly discern from the early signs of rigor that nothing can be done and call time of death.


NOW: I dont know where the nonsense comes from that Kirk moved Prince or dressed him or any of that but, to be graphic... it was observed that there was vomit in Prince's airway and that saliva was draining out of his mouth while laying in the elevator. It was also observed there was "something wet" on the wall of the elevator by the control panel that was draining onto the floor. Whatever happened to Prince, happened in the elevator and seems to be a repeat of what happened to him in the airplane.

[Edited 4/22/18 14:13pm]

jtfolden said:

bondno9 said:

Nope. I read the same thing was like, hold up ... paramedics said upon arrival he was OUTSIDE the elevator (after being moved by Johnson) but his left hand was on the floor and right had on his abdomen ... AND he was "stiff" (couldn't move limbs) ... soooo ummm how were arms down to his sides INSIDE the elevator but after the body was moved they somehow became "moveable"???? That's crime scene 101: NEVER MOVE THE BODY!!!!

[Edited 4/22/18 12:20pm]

Right.. the correct sequence of events is *I think*:

Kirk goes looking for Prince... comes back looking nervous, according to Andrew, and goes off with Meron to get Prince.

Andrew hears Meron scream and goes to see Prince laying in the elevator on his side. It appears to Andrew that rigor has already *started* to set in and he believes Prince is already dead and calls 911.

The fire chief is the first repsonder to arrive. Prince is still *warm to the touch* but the chief is unsure whether that means Prince had just stopped breathing recently OR he was warm because of the ambient temperature in the elevator. Either way, he proceeds to start live saving measures which includes pulling Prince OUT of the elevator (the rug int he elevator comes wth Prince and is crumpled underneath him).

When the EMT arrives, they quickly discern from the early signs of rigor that nothing can be done and call time of death.


NOW: I dont know where the nonsense comes from that Kirk moved Prince or dressed him or any of that but, to be graphic... it was observed that there was vomit in Prince's airway and that saliva was draining out of his mouth while laying in the elevator. It was also observed there was "something wet" on the wall of the elevator by the control panel that was draining onto the floor. Whatever happened to Prince, happened in the elevator and seems to be a repeat of what happened to him in the airplane.

Yes, the bolded sentence makes sense.

PennyPurple said:

I really don't think JH was his girlfriend. She didn't seem to know very much, even the side of the bed he slept on.

That's a misreading of the interview. She knew EXACTLY which side of the bed was his - what she was confused about was literally WHICH side would be considered left vs right based on whether you were looking at the bed or laying in it.

When she was laying in bad, Prince's side would be the left side. If she was looking at the bed, his side would be on the right. She knew the side that was his though by describing it in relation to the night stand and bathroom door.

Jill's was the most honest interview given out of anyone's, imo.

[Edited 4/22/18 14:19pm]

can anyone tell me in what position the elevator was in when Prince was found....had he been upstairs and was on the way down or had he been on the lower floor and was on the way up

[Edited 4/22/18 14:12pm]

cloveringold85 said:

PennyPurple said:

Out of love to clean him up redress him and throw him in the elevator?

.

You never touch a deceased person's body, especially if the person died without any witnesses! Maybe Kirk was in shock and was freaking-out, but that is a very odd thing to do, especially when you don't know what happened or you could be interfering with an investigation. But, that's just me and my line of thinking anyways....

Nope, it's me and my line of thinking as well. NO ONE should have touched his body other than the people trained on handling such a situation.

Strawberrylova123 said:

Did kirk find prince unconcious one time in 1996

I think Mayte said something about this in her book. I remember reading his name

80tomato said:

can anyone tell me in what position the elevator was in when Prince was found....had he been upstairs and was on the way down or had he been on the lower floor and was on the way up

[Edited 4/22/18 14:12pm]

We can't answer which way he was going BUT we know he had been upstairs at some point. His coat and gloves were found in the hallway upstairs.

He had also used his latop (or computer, I can't remember which) up until around 10PM.

His meal the chef dropped off remained in one of the kitchens uneaten, however.

I believe it was stated that Prince had probably been dead for around 6 hours. So at some point between 10PM and 4AM, at the latest, he passed away in the elevator. He could have been alive but unconcious for a time before passing though, depending on the actual events in the elevator (such as when he vomited).

cloveringold85 said:

LOVESYMBOLNUMBER2 said:

PennyPurple said: If prince was soiled in some fashion and Kirk cleaned him and or changed his clothes, wouldn't the dirty clothes and or towels used to clean him be somewhere? And I thought he had been wearing the exact clothing he had last been seen in. It would have been hard for Kirk to do all that and redress him as he had been dressed the night before...it is interesting that it seems no one can remember what he looked like, seems to me that would be a detailed image that you would never be able to forget...but apparently the whole damn bunch has some type of amnesia

.

Yup! All of them miraculously came down with SAD......Sudden Amnesia Disorder.....(not trying to be funny), but it's true!

wonder if there is any evidence whatsoever of that outside or stronger than sheila's statement.

ThatWhiteDude said:

Strawberrylova123 said:

ThatWhiteDude said:

I think Mayte said something about this in her book. I remember reading his name

So his definitely lying if he said he wasn't aware of prince's opiate usage

He's full of shit.

I posted this in the last part of this discussion but it was closed;

Has this been mentioned yet: of all the counterfeit pills they tested only SOME of them contained Fentanyl.

I think this is important and really sad...

From all the interviews in the data dump, it seems Prince had been getting his pills via unofficial means for quite some time. Several people reported that he would obtain prescriptions in other people's names but at some point he must have started getting them "off the street".

However, the last batch he acquired were laced with Fentanyl and this is where the biggest problems began. Given the counterfeit pills both with and without Fentanyl, I think that means whatever source he was using at the end was unreliable BUT earlier batches must have done the job for him to get them again and wind up with some that had the Fentanyl.

It doesn't read at all to me like his addiction was suddenly worse or any different than it had been for quite some time BUT, BUT, BUT the pills he was taking WERE (even though they appeared to be the exact same pills to him).

Even worse, since the less dangerous pills and the Fentanyl laced ones looked the same and he had a good deal of both-every time he took a pill he had no way of knowing which batch he was taking... On the plane he probably took the normal amount of pills he typically did BUT they were the bad ones with Fentanyl. On 4/21, he again probably took the normal amount but they were the bad batch.

I also think the odd behavior that Judith talks about, him wanting to sleep so much, talk oddly, and some of the health issues he discussed during those few weeks were caused by the Fentanyl (such as vomiting during the night that ast week or so.

So, this bad batch of pills made his addiction to pain killers more obvious to everyone around him and more immediately dangerous to him - and t's obvious it was an issue he needed to deal with BUT the reports don't read like his addition or pain was suddenly spiraling out of control.