I guess if you like the drumming in his songs, then he was great. If you don't like it, then he wasn't great.

I think Prince put it best back in 2004 when he said that there were certainly things John Blackwell could do that he (Prince) could not. But Prince did the drumming on his records because there were feelings he wanted out that he didn't think anyone else could get.

I really like prince's drumming don't get me wrong I was just wondering how good he was technically as Im not a drummer I dont know what is difficult and what isnt.

paulludvig said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

I'm not saying he isn't good. I said I'm glad he was wild and not being technical. And I love hearing where he missed some beats. It was too wild to be technically tight, and that is what I love about Junk Music

.

And I have a lot of drummer friends I grew up with watching and listening to them in our younger years, you don't have to be really good to be furious on the drums. That is sorta the thing about it, it's tribal almost primal. Like people on the dance floor @ a NYC house party/night club

Well, I don't agree with you. I think Prince was a REALLY good drummer. Some of his sound engineers have said it was his best instrument. Miles Davis noted his drumming as well. As for missed beats on Junk Music. Maybe that was Sheila or Jonathan on percussion.

whatever, you didn't have to single me out to bicker

I think he is a good drummer jez

jdcxc said:

Listen to Madhouse. Prince has innate feel, rhythm, timing and soul which outweigh all the technical critiques.

OK, thread closed.

Yeah, and what about the 1st 3rd of Parade?

[Edited 2/6/18 15:28pm]

It depends.

Drummer's mind?
Or drummer's feet?

SKipper is the best percussionist, the most inventive of the eighties.
In terms of timbre, of sounds, we now know the whole Trip-Hop, down to the Arte Povera of Chicago's first House records,
we all owe him big. From Madonna to Michael (suddenly, in "Bad", programming!), he is the post-disco.
I think some don't realize how much EDM is just a lazy punk ass version of a mixed bag of the 1999 album tricks.
All pulp, no juice.

What is so great about 1999 is that it sounds like Dirty Mind.
I mean he could have sounded so much better.
Purple Rain (the original WEA vinyl) does.
Instead, it's dark, stark, short rockabilly plate reverbs, oozing cymbals, tamborine toys, muffled kick drums,
honest charleys, open your hats,
and
the most
incredible
rythm patterns ever.

I'm gonna crack up and say that at his apex, Prince was pretty close to be a J.S. Bach of the drum machine.
He achieves patterns that can go on forever, it's like the best of hypnotic James Brown,
it's very african, Prince has a pulse in him. It's mathetical. Or sixties hippie, as in "Forever in My Life".
He could cover a palette so vast. Prince is rhythm incarnated. Not only that, and this is where we musicians lose him.
You may say Prince is very poor technically in "Forever". But we're close to "Pet Sounds" instead.

Always keep in mind this is the drummer on Bambi, on Sister, on U Got The Look.
What makes Prince an incredible drummer on this one? Just "a" hi-hat.
It's just a kick drum on the Linn, and a live hi-hat. The kick is always kind of sliding. Mixed so upfront it's obscene.

Praise the Good Lord for Roger Linn putting individual swing settings on every track of his drum machine.
To think that for a short moment, the breathshortness of "Girl" has been all mechanical, before Prince twists the knobs.
Worse, imagine "Erotic City" all robotic! (well, it would still work actually...)
SKipper was a magician on the drums.

Only, he knew in advance what the other instrument would do.
Who does that? Maestros. They go from structure, and then they know how to slightly displace some parts,
how to detune slightly. Prince, had he been a producer only, is astounding.
He's an incredible rhythm composer. Take "Hot Thing". Take "Witness". Take "Alphabet Street", or "Good Love".

He taught everyone how to bend any sound to organic.
Before him, new wave was just ice.
It's in every single album of the eighties.
Constant reinvention, refinement, subtleties, perfumes, smells,
and the capacity to stomp it always louder, never heavier.
All in the pelvis, Baby!

Sure, it takes a long time to EQ "It" properly, but when you do...
The last one and half minute is incredible.
And you may say bonatoc is derailing again,
but no, we're still talking drums.
What he does in the background is a sort of strangled kazoo,
and the toms rolls may look simple, but the guttural synth bells do triolets.
So he whips right in the middle of it, it's "Venus in Furs" episode V.
Just the grind of the guitar, those 4 initial doubles, cutting the first verse in half.

What can I say, give it up, inhale, and follow the beat with your pelvis.
In the strange silence that opens part II.

So he played/programmed kinda steady, because he needed the space for overdubs.
But Susan Rogers told us he overdubbed by hand, slamming on the Linn with his fingers.
SOTT is entirely that. Part Synclavier who runs out of batteries, part greasy, sticky Linn,
Crystal Ball is all over. SOTT is a stretched Crystal Ball.

Can you picture Prince doing all the toms on the Linn, or the Synclavier?
Or a Simmons Drum set? The less he does, the more space there is.
Music breathes, comes and goes ("If I Was Your Girlfriend").
You'd think there's a drummer, right?
No, it's all that can come around that makes you think there is.
It's the same, fucking same pattern for four minutes.
It's phenomenal, and Prince makes it beautiful, humble.
Like it's flowing naturally.

All them control surfaces, they couldn't stand a chance.

[Edited 2/6/18 17:25pm]

lonelyalien said:

I really like prince's drumming don't get me wrong I was just wondering how good he was technically as Im not a drummer I dont know what is difficult and what isnt.

Making it sound alive is pretty fucking difficult. You can stay on the feeling for a few measures,
but the real trick is constantly forgetting what you've just done while always anticipating what comes next.
They don't call it an art for nothing.
Sorry, I'm not a mad at you, it's just... Oh I don't know.

Prince is the best minimalist in pop.
But it never feels like something is missing.

He's the best drummer ever. I mean the fucking programming of "When Doves Cry" alone.
It doesn't bother me Prince relies on compressors, reverbs and flangers.
Every culture goes for new instruments, new sounds.
Prince had lots of culture rhytmically, it's astounding.

And then he could have been just a virtuoso, an incredible session musician.
But the way he performs/programs, rest assured he could have sounded like Toto anyday.
But to be an original is real hard work.

What I mean by that, the most exceptional drummers will always tell you he was a genius.
Even the way he plays on "Slow Love". I mean, it's a palace pillars on the Como lake.
Just add Clare and there you go, nothing to add. Just drums and Clare.
So much with so little. Of course Eric gives his emotional best.
He just has to wave and twirl above it, all macho like.
Then Atlanta does the sopranoes,
and horns turn hermaphrodites.

Fuck me, I digressed again...



I could go for hours. The Org is bad for my productivity.
Damn U.

[Edited 2/6/18 16:24pm]

Would someone please shut me up?
Who does threads like that?

AnnaSantana said:

Question: was "Tamborine" live drums or machine? I love that track, Prince blacked out on that one

It's entirely Prince, without a click, who needs a click, and you'll never guess: there's a a tamborine shaking all along.
Special thanks 2 Captain of the Infamous Peach and Black Podcast Gang.


Tamborine: it's all manual.™

jdcxc said:

Listen to Madhouse. Prince has innate feel, rhythm, timing and soul which outweigh all the technical critiques.

Yep. So much charm and personality on drums. It's not about the mechanical or technical aspect, it's about it sounding delicious!

AnnaSantana said:

bonatoc said:

AnnaSantana said:

Question: was "Tamborine" live drums or machine? I love that track, Prince blacked out on that one

It's entirely Prince, without a click, who needs a click, and you'll never guess: there's a a tamborine shaking all along.
Special thanks 2 Captain of the Infamous Peach and Black Podcast Gang.


Tamborine: it's all manual.™

Yes, one of my favorite self gratifying Prince songs TAMBORINE

the actual tamborine playing was percussionist Brad Marsh

bonatoc said:

khill95 said:

He's certainly no Neil Peart or Michael Bland, but he has a natural sense of rhythm and his playing is naturaly funky. He has enough knowledge of the instrument to lay basic parts that are still good to listen to. What I really want is video footage of Prince in the studio laying down drums to one of his songs, or shedding with Sheila

- Amen! And I would love to see more videos of Prince drumming.

Well how good a drummer are you? Where are your videos?

databank said:

bonatoc said:

Would someone please shut me up?
Who does threads like that?

O won't shut you up, I really appreciate your contributions of late.

Who programmed "777-9311", the Linn's crowning achievement? "Nasty Girl"?
Who plays the drums on "Darling Nikki"?
There you go.

You won't many find drummers who can play as filthy.
Maybe on the Stooges' "Dirt".
It's sleazy. As in "Witness 4 the prosecution".
Prince can a punk rock drummer. How he plays on "Sister" is phenomenal.
His tempo changes are just incredible.

But he can also play steady as fuck, as with the kick drum of "Controversy".
And you gotta love the kick slowing down around the end of "Dirty Mind", it's like: "Yeah it's a kick drum solo made of quarters".
But the "Dirty Mind" kick is horny SKipper shaking his booty on the stool, pumping his ankle as he would pump up his lady's hips.
It's really, really great, simple, rock'n'roll.

"When U Were Mine" sounds as if Prince stole the E. Street Band and yelled at them "Heeeey-hey! — Not so loud, Baby!".
Like Prince is a phenomenal rhythm guitar player, he's a fantastic band drummer.
A musician who recruits John Blackwell, pardon me, Sheila E., pardon me, a young Michael B. has all my attention.

I mean the intro to "Witness", you could say it's not difficult. That ain't true, it's greasy, like the sticks are all sticky.
He's forcing himself not to play stuff, it's the best I can put it. And it's fantastic precisely because of that. All the silence, all the gaps.
No wonder Miles was intrigued. Prince got the stuff of silence.
It's so obvious in the shot of IIGBABN in SOTT the movie, when Prince takes on the drums. He skips: "Nah, won't play this one".

My definitive proof of Prince being an incredible drummer?
"Irresistible Bitch". There. Done.

To think he went a decade with Bobby is so cool.
He got magic out of him. The '86 Wembley live shows are proof the Revolution was the baddest band in the universe for one, too brief season.

Prince could have gotten a much "better" drummer that Bobby, a much "better" guitar player than Wendy, and so forth,
but all the live audio and video tapes of Prince and The Revolution are there as proof that Prince knew exactly what he was doing
by putting up a gang of friends instead of session musicians that get certainly along, but who ain't went to th'coal mine.
It didn't mention them as "Mount Rushmore" for nothing. There are lots of excellent technical drummers.

Prince was a soul artist.

Isn't Junk Music and amazing display of his skills on the drums?

JorisE73 said:

Isn't Junk Music and amazing display of his skills on the drums?

- I didnt know I had this one. Listening now

.

I didnt see people talking about them here, but I think he did some elegant drumming on ´Glass Cutter´ (before the guitar solo) and it was real cool to see him playing drums in the style of the late great John Blackwell on ´Musicology´ (I thought it was him before I saw the credits)

Cthulhu said:

Thouroughly enyoying this topic. After Bonatoc's ranting there isn't much to add i guess. I always let people hear "Dance on" and they're always pleasantly surprised.

I believe Dance On is Sheila E on the drums

bonatoc said:

Who programmed "777-9311", the Linn's crowning achievement? "Nasty Girl"?
Who plays the drums on "Darling Nikki"?
There you go.

You won't many find drummers who can play as filthy.
Maybe on the Stooges' "Dirt".
It's sleazy. As in "Witness 4 the prosecution".
Prince can a punk rock drummer. How he plays on "Sister" is phenomenal.
His tempo changes are just incredible.

But he can also play steady as fuck, as with the kick drum of "Controversy".
And you gotta love the kick slowing down around the end of "Dirty Mind", it's like: "Yeah it's a kick drum solo made of quarters".
But the "Dirty Mind" kick is horny SKipper shaking his booty on the stool, pumping his ankle as he would pump up his lady's hips.
It's really, really great, simple, rock'n'roll.

"When U Were Mine" sounds as if Prince stole the E. Street Band and yelled at them "Heeeey-hey! — Not so loud, Baby!".
Like Prince is a phenomenal rhythm guitar player, he's a fantastic band drummer.
A musician who recruits John Blackwell, pardon me, Sheila E., pardon me, a young Michael B. has all my attention.

I mean the intro to "Witness", you could say it's not difficult. That ain't true, it's greasy, like the sticks are all sticky.
He's forcing himself not to play stuff, it's the best I can put it. And it's fantastic precisely because of that. All the silence, all the gaps.
No wonder Miles was intrigued. Prince got the stuff of silence.
It's so obvious in the shot of IIGBABN in SOTT the movie, when Prince takes on the drums. He skips: "Nah, won't play this one".

My definitive proof of Prince being an incredible drummer?
"Irresistible Bitch". There. Done.

To think he went a decade with Bobby is so cool.
He got magic out of him. The '86 Wembley live shows are proof the Revolution was the baddest band in the universe for one, too brief season.

Prince could have gotten a much "better" drummer that Bobby, a much "better" guitar player than Wendy, and so forth,
but all the live audio and video tapes of Prince and The Revolution are there as proof that Prince knew exactly what he was doing
by putting up a gang of friends instead of session musicians that get certainly along, but who ain't went to th'coal mine.
It didn't mention them as "Mount Rushmore" for nothing. There are lots of excellent technical drummers.

Prince was a soul artist.

I heard 7779311 was pre-programmed into the Linn? By a Tower of Power drummer IIRC?

Phishanga said:

bonatoc said:

Who programmed "777-9311", the Linn's crowning achievement? "Nasty Girl"?
Who plays the drums on "Darling Nikki"?
There you go.

You won't many find drummers who can play as filthy.
Maybe on the Stooges' "Dirt".
It's sleazy. As in "Witness 4 the prosecution".
Prince can a punk rock drummer. How he plays on "Sister" is phenomenal.
His tempo changes are just incredible.

But he can also play steady as fuck, as with the kick drum of "Controversy".
And you gotta love the kick slowing down around the end of "Dirty Mind", it's like: "Yeah it's a kick drum solo made of quarters".
But the "Dirty Mind" kick is horny SKipper shaking his booty on the stool, pumping his ankle as he would pump up his lady's hips.
It's really, really great, simple, rock'n'roll.

"When U Were Mine" sounds as if Prince stole the E. Street Band and yelled at them "Heeeey-hey! — Not so loud, Baby!".
Like Prince is a phenomenal rhythm guitar player, he's a fantastic band drummer.
A musician who recruits John Blackwell, pardon me, Sheila E., pardon me, a young Michael B. has all my attention.

I mean the intro to "Witness", you could say it's not difficult. That ain't true, it's greasy, like the sticks are all sticky.
He's forcing himself not to play stuff, it's the best I can put it. And it's fantastic precisely because of that. All the silence, all the gaps.
No wonder Miles was intrigued. Prince got the stuff of silence.
It's so obvious in the shot of IIGBABN in SOTT the movie, when Prince takes on the drums. He skips: "Nah, won't play this one".

My definitive proof of Prince being an incredible drummer?
"Irresistible Bitch". There. Done.

To think he went a decade with Bobby is so cool.
He got magic out of him. The '86 Wembley live shows are proof the Revolution was the baddest band in the universe for one, too brief season.

Prince could have gotten a much "better" drummer that Bobby, a much "better" guitar player than Wendy, and so forth,
but all the live audio and video tapes of Prince and The Revolution are there as proof that Prince knew exactly what he was doing
by putting up a gang of friends instead of session musicians that get certainly along, but who ain't went to th'coal mine.
It didn't mention them as "Mount Rushmore" for nothing. There are lots of excellent technical drummers.

Prince was a soul artist.

I heard 7779311 was pre-programmed into the Linn? By a Tower of Power drummer IIRC?

Yes, I believe Jesse Johnson talked about that too 777-9311 is linn programmed

Why do I see comments like this on a youtube video on breaking down the pattern on 777-9311 then?!

"Morris as a master percussionist reportedly played a great amount of The Time's drums originally and if you can convince me that anyone but Jesse Johnson played guitar on 'What Time Is It?' (especially 777 & The Walk), I'll link you to some rare PRN exclusives..."

Wolfie87 said:

Why do I see comments like this on a youtube video on breaking down the pattern on 777-9311 then?!

"Morris as a master percussionist reportedly played a great amount of The Time's drums originally and if you can convince me that anyone but Jesse Johnson played guitar on 'What Time Is It?' (especially 777 & The Walk), I'll link you to some rare PRN exclusives..."

I thought is was openly admitted for a long time that Prince did 777-9311.

Now many of the band members did talk about rehearsal sessions where after they were done, Prince would go in a play over various members parts, completing the tracks.

Morris Day did play on a lot of the songs but not all.

OldFriends4Sale said:

Phishanga said:

I heard 7779311 was pre-programmed into the Linn? By a Tower of Power drummer IIRC?

Yes, I believe Jesse Johnson talked about that too 777-9311 is linn programmed

You mean it's a demo preset?

Oh, well. Pretty much all rap is based on breforehand made music,
so let's give the man a break. We'll say he'd sampled it.

bonatoc said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Yes, I believe Jesse Johnson talked about that too 777-9311 is linn programmed

You mean it's a demo preset?

Oh, well. Pretty much all rap is based on breforehand made music,
so let's give the man a break. We'll say he'd sampled it.

it doesn't matter if it is organic or linn programmed 4 me, it made for some timeless electric purple music

1999 album is mostly linn drumming