Genesia said:

precioux said:

I'm pretty sure that this "bad trip" on X fucked with his head hard afterwards. I also think this was his "life altering" experience that he has alluded to, but never came out and verified it. It has been stated in a few interviews when asked about religion and such. His outlook on the way he treated people changed drastically after the trip. He chose to start treating people with more kindness. If I had to guess, it was a bad trip that was very lucid and what he experienced stuck with him. Kind of like a horrible nightmare that you never forget. In his case, he probably "saw" and "felt" that the Black Album was evil and after the trip, there was no convincing him otherwise.

There you go, making shit up again. Prince treated a lot of people like crap for a long time after 1987.

WRONG!

you're quite the troll today, aren't you Genesia?

Prince was HUMAN. Was he infalliable after the X trip? NO. Did he make a concerted effort to change his ways? YES.

If you have not read the plethora of interviews/books on this very subject, then you are either:

1. Living under a rock

2. Making a concious efferort to be the Org troll for the day


Maybe your delusions of ganduer will keep you complacent today?

nice take. Thank you, Sir!

precioux said:

RodeoSchro said:

Thanks.

A question I have then, is: How long does the ecstasy stuff last? Did Prince take it, decide the Black Album was evil, call Warner Brothers and have it cancelled - all while still on the trip?

If the trip ended before he recorded "Lovesexy", wouldn't he have realized his Black Album decision was made under the influence of something and was therefore not based in reality, and have tried to reverse his decision? After all, the Black Album was finished and pressed, and ready to ship. He liked it BEFORE the alleged ecstasy trip, so if the ecstasy wore off, wouldn't he like it again? Or are we to believe that the ecstasy completely altered his thinking on the Black Album forever/at least for many years?

Or do you think Prince's ego caused him to think, "Well...I made a bad decision while on a drug but rather than try to correct that/admit I took a drug, I'll just play it out to the end and record a whole new album, just so I don't have to say I made a mistake/took a drug earlier"?

Again - I've never done any drugs. I've been drunk a lot, and made some bad decisions while drunk, but when I sobered up I always and immediately knew those decisions were bad. So that's the only barometer I have re: alleged ecstasy trips, and it's probably useless.

I'm pretty sure that this "bad trip" on X fucked with his head hard afterwards. I also think this was his "life altering" experience that he has alluded to, but never came out and verified it. It has been stated in a few interviews when asked about religion and such. His outlook on the way he treated people changed drastically after the trip. He chose to start treating people with more kindness. If I had to guess, it was a bad trip that was very lucid and what he experienced stuck with him. Kind of like a horrible nightmare that you never forget. In his case, he probably "saw" and "felt" that the Black Album was evil and after the trip, there was no convincing him otherwise.

precioux said:

Genesia said:

There you go, making shit up again. Prince treated a lot of people like crap for a long time after 1987.

WRONG!

you're quite the troll today, aren't you Genesia?

Prince was HUMAN. Was he infalliable after the X trip? NO. Did he make a concerted effort to change his ways? YES.

If you have not read the plethora of interviews/books on this very subject, then you are either:

1. Living under a rock

2. Making a concious efferort to be the Org troll for the day


Maybe your delusions of ganduer will keep you complacent today?

Well, apparently you were living under a rock in the early 90s - because there are plenty of first-hand accounts of Prince's douchebaggery from that time period. Band members, managers, women...

I know - why don't you go ask Nona Gaye about his treatment of her? And Steve Fargnoli? Oh, wait - he's dead. My point is that there is nothing magical about that night in 1987. You were the one who asserted that he suddenly became Prince Charming overnight. He didn't - and there is ample evidence to support that.

Go ahead - prove to me that he made a "concerted effort from that night forward to change his ways." You can't - which is why you feel the need to backpedal and call me names. No one's buying your bullshit.

Genesia said:

precioux said:

WRONG!

you're quite the troll today, aren't you Genesia?

Prince was HUMAN. Was he infalliable after the X trip? NO. Did he make a concerted effort to change his ways? YES.

If you have not read the plethora of interviews/books on this very subject, then you are either:

1. Living under a rock

2. Making a concious efferort to be the Org troll for the day


Maybe your delusions of ganduer will keep you complacent today?

Well, apparently you were living under a rock in the early 90s - because there are plenty of first-hand accounts of Prince's douchebaggery from that time period. Band members, managers, women...

I know - why don't you go ask Nona Gaye about his treatment of her? And Steve Fargnoli? Oh, wait - he's dead. My point is that there is nothing magical about that night in 1987. You were the one who asserted that he suddenly became Prince Charming overnight. He didn't - and there is ample evidence to support that.

Go ahead - prove to me that he made a "concerted effort from that night forward to change his ways." You can't - which is why you feel the need to backpedal and call me names. No one's buying your bullshit.

You're a glutton for punishment today, aren't you?


"Prince charming" are your words, my dear.

I stated and stand by the fact that P did have a "life changing" experience that night...your suppositions warrant NO BACKPEDALING on my end.

Chiao

precioux said:

Genesia said:

Well, apparently you were living under a rock in the early 90s - because there are plenty of first-hand accounts of Prince's douchebaggery from that time period. Band members, managers, women...

I know - why don't you go ask Nona Gaye about his treatment of her? And Steve Fargnoli? Oh, wait - he's dead. My point is that there is nothing magical about that night in 1987. You were the one who asserted that he suddenly became Prince Charming overnight. He didn't - and there is ample evidence to support that.

Go ahead - prove to me that he made a "concerted effort from that night forward to change his ways." You can't - which is why you feel the need to backpedal and call me names. No one's buying your bullshit.

You're a glutton for punishment today, aren't you?


"Prince charming" are your words, my dear.

I stated and stand by the fact that P did have a "life changing" experience that night...your suppositions warrant NO BACKPEDALING on my end.

Chiao

Oh, look - another step added to your MO: backpedal, call names and run away.

rogifan said:

NotACleverName said:

No. It does not "mess with your mind". It only numbs the pain. And frankly, I still have pain and have had to curtail activities that I used to love to do. I can no longer ride my bike, take long walks/hikes with my dog, cook extravagant meals, etc. Frankly, it's very frustrating. And, it also saddens me. But, there are also others who have it much worse than me. So I deal with it. And, as I've stated before, a long time acquaintance or casual observer would not have any indication that I was taking prescribed, controlled medication.

Thanks for sharing your experience and so sorry to hear about what you have to deal with.

Yes, thanks for sharing and adding this important perspective. I would like to add that a large percentage of P's catalogue deals with emotional pain...not just an artistic theme as this pain was a constant in his life: loneliness, inability to maintain emotional connections, self-imposed solitude, fights with his record company, the name change, loss of his children and marriages, being short and small (there, I've said it) yet when anyone on this site suggests he may have been tryig to dull his emotional pain with whatever he could get his hands on, the org. exploes in denial. I've always wondered why emotional pain is so easily dismissed as we've all experienced it and it hurts like hell.

rogifan said:

NotACleverName said:

No. It does not "mess with your mind". It only numbs the pain. And frankly, I still have pain and have had to curtail activities that I used to love to do. I can no longer ride my bike, take long walks/hikes with my dog, cook extravagant meals, etc. Frankly, it's very frustrating. And, it also saddens me. But, there are also others who have it much worse than me. So I deal with it.

And, as I've stated before, a long time acquaintance or casual observer would not have any indication that I was taking prescribed, controlled medication.

Thanks for sharing your experience and so sorry to hear about what you have to deal with.

Genesia said:

precioux said:

You're a glutton for punishment today, aren't you?


"Prince charming" are your words, my dear.

I stated and stand by the fact that P did have a "life changing" experience that night...your suppositions warrant NO BACKPEDALING on my end.

Chiao

Oh, look - another step added to your MO: backpedal, call names and run away.

Have a nice day, Genesia!!!


Hint: as long as you don't answer yourself back, you'll be just fine

All my cares and troubles dive right off my window sill
Every time I pop my little pill

.

Prince, March 1992

[Edited 6/13/17 13:01pm]

I don't doubt that Prince's anti-drug stance was stern at one point, problem is, people who are like that can get worn down by the constant suggestion and pressure from the idiots around them in combination with whatever else they are dealing with. No one starts out a junkie anyway. hell, i was shocked when I read that Prince was "tipsy" on wine when he recorded "How Come U Don't Call Me Anymore". It's pretty much accepted that he did excstasy, there were the rumours of cocaine in the 80's, not much evidence though, he used to rub his nose onstage like a cokehead would but I interpret that as part of the act, like cab calloway used to do. Far as I know, Cab wasn't a cokehead either. We also know that he had some kind of OD in 96. And there is video of him going behind a curtain for a sec and coming out to blow a puff of smoke. Other than that there isn't that much hard evidence for us as fans to go on. He did say he was "open to all experiences" when asked about drugs and some people think the stress of the WB war had him in the throes of addiction but not much proof of that either. The rumours of pain pill abuse that came out several years ago sounded somewhat credible and we now know they were probably true. Other than that, I really don't think he was anywhere close to being like most of the rock stars we know about who've been lost to drugs. I still think there is plenty of mystery and we still don't know much about the man.

precioux said:

Genesia said:

Oh, look - another step added to your MO: backpedal, call names and run away.

Have a nice day, Genesia!!!


Hint: as long as you don't answer yourself back, you'll be just fine

Prince might have had an epiphany, but he was still a jackass for many years to come from all that i've heard. He still did punkish things right up to the end, one story I read which I thought was a little fucked up was him going onstage to hand a guy a note, a guy who was playing Jimi's "star spangled banner" it was "stop, you're white" that's fucked up but that was Prince and even when prince was wrong he was right, as he was quoted as saying once.

LOVESYMBOLNUMBER2 said:

No matter what your drug philosophy, no one aspires to be dependent or addicted to drugs including prince...

yes, it's a slippery slope...by the time friends or family are geared up to intervene...you're deep into your problem.

savagedreams said:

rogifan said:

Don't remember seeing this quote before...found it on FB.

.

Wow, I never saw that before. Thanks for sharing!

savagedreams said:

i dont think his opinion on drugs ever changed. i think its a bit different though if he legitemately started taking the meds for pain, most likely associated to his hips, and then got hooked, compared to someone who just decides... "hmm, herion sounds like fun". im not saying they both arent equally damaging, but its a very different journey to one than the other.

.

Prince was probably beside himself with the fact that he needed meds to help with his pain. Prince was a man of integrity and he was probably ashamed that he needed opiates to help him. I don't know if he felt that way, but knowing how he felt about drugs, he probably carried a lot of shame, and he shouldn't have.

savagedreams said:

Bodhitheblackdog said:

rogifan said:

NotACleverName said: Thanks for sharing your experience and so sorry to hear about what you have to deal with.

Yes, thanks for sharing and adding this important perspective. I would like to add that a large percentage of P's catalogue deals with emotional pain...not just an artistic theme as this pain was a constant in his life: loneliness, inability to maintain emotional connections, self-imposed solitude, fights with his record company, the name change, loss of his children and marriages, being short and small (there, I've said it) yet when anyone on this site suggests he may have been tryig to dull his emotional pain with whatever he could get his hands on, the org. exploes in denial. I've always wondered why emotional pain is so easily dismissed as we've all experienced it and it hurts like hell.

.

That needed to be said, and thank you!

.

Prince dealt with a lot of bullshit in his short lifetime. Personally, I could not have dealt with all that he had to deal with. All the bullshit, day-in and day-out, being used and abused, not being able to trust people, his battle with WB, marriage, divorce, loss of his son, losing his parents........and on and on. Sorry, didn't mean to sound redundant here.

.

I'm sure an ocassional glass of wine would numb his emotional pain, but we never saw Prince drunk or slurring his words. We really don't know what he did in his private life. I don't believe he was popping pain pills just to feel good; I think he took them because he was in physical pain. Just my point of view.

PeteSilas said:

I don't doubt that Prince's anti-drug stance was stern at one point, problem is, people who are like that can get worn down by the constant suggestion and pressure from the idiots around them in combination with whatever else they are dealing with. No one starts out a junkie anyway. hell, i was shocked when I read that Prince was "tipsy" on wine when he recorded "How Come U Don't Call Me Anymore". It's pretty much accepted that he did excstasy, there were the rumours of cocaine in the 80's, not much evidence though, he used to rub his nose onstage like a cokehead would but I interpret that as part of the act, like cab calloway used to do. Far as I know, Cab wasn't a cokehead either. We also know that he had some kind of OD in 96. And there is video of him going behind a curtain for a sec and coming out to blow a puff of smoke. Other than that there isn't that much hard evidence for us as fans to go on. He did say he was "open to all experiences" when asked about drugs and some people think the stress of the WB war had him in the throes of addiction but not much proof of that either. The rumours of pain pill abuse that came out several years ago sounded somewhat credible and we now know they were probably true. Other than that, I really don't think he was anywhere close to being like most of the rock stars we know about who've been lost to drugs. I still think there is plenty of mystery and we still don't know much about the man.

.

someone interpreting THAT interview as a realistic non-drug stance continues to be blind

luvsexy4all said:

luvsexy4all said:

someone interpreting THAT interview as a realistic non-drug stance continues to be blind

It's a personal statement about not using drugs; his anti-drug "stance" is abundantly expressed in dozens of anti-drug lyrics, etc.

I think some people read too much into things. Prince proclaimed to be anti-drugs. Yes, he said things that may have eluded to drug use, but Prince said a lot of things and he said things to make us wonder and think about what he really meant. He wanted to keep us guessing. He even told Wendy "don't give them everything", or something along those lines.....like, just tease us and keep wondering more about him. Prince purposely didn't want to give us all the deets, because he wanted to remain a mystery. He even said "My songs will tell you everything about me." I think he expressed himself through his music and that's how he wanted it.

cloveringold85 said:

rogifan said:

Don't remember seeing this quote before...found it on FB.

.

Wow, I never saw that before. Thanks for sharing!

Here is the full interview which is really informative

https://sites.google.com/site/prninterviews/home/musician-september-1983

[Edited 6/13/17 19:31pm]

If U dont take drugs try not to offend others who do,with insensitive and degrading remarks about people who take drugs. If U havnt tried drugs,thats positive,positive things can come from people who use. Dont take drugs would be my advice. If u do take drugs,go slow and limit what u take,and if u can slowly and gradually stop. Theres nothing worse than stopping cold turkey,it throws your whole system into chaos. Thanks for reading this

.....................................................................................................................

'I know I shouldnt put my faith in heroes,but I cant c u any other way. RIP P

cloveringold85 said:

precioux said:

rogifan said:

precioux said: How does one define recreational? Just because something is obtained on the black market doesn't mean it's recreational.

It's "recreational" if it's not prescribed, whether being used to treat a real ailment or not-if it's not presccribed and is bought off the street it is recreational usage.

.

thats the most retarded explanation of recreational drugs i have ever heard. if someone has cancer and gets an alternative on the black because they cant afford the prescriptions thats still "recreational" by your definition.

[Edited 6/14/17 7:29am]

savagedreams said:

precioux said:

It's "recreational" if it's not prescribed, whether being used to treat a real ailment or not-if it's not presccribed and is bought off the street it is recreational usage.

.

thats the most retarded explanation of recreational drugs i have ever heard. if someone has cancer and gets an alternative on the black because they cant afford the prescriptions thats still "recreational" by your definition.

[Edited 6/14/17 7:29am]

I figured you or anyone else would blatantly observe that the inference is to mind altering drugs, NOT to infer the "retarded"/ignorant stance of deeming drugs used for cancer, diabetes or the lot to be presumed "recreational drug use"-who the phueck would do that? Pure ignorance to speculate, when the question rendered was how a drug is deemed recreational or not.

Examaple for your feeble mind:

Buying black maket opiates that under the guise of a stamped Watson presenting as a Vicodin is deemed "recreational" but for the fact that it was NOT PRESCRIBED

BTW-the question in reply#11 was specifically referecncing the pills Prince/whoever bought on the black market. These pills were opiates presenting as prescribed opiates, but were not prescribed, hence the use of them is RECREATIONAL.

[Edited 6/14/17 10:33am]

Bodhitheblackdog said:

rogifan said:

NotACleverName said: Thanks for sharing your experience and so sorry to hear about what you have to deal with.

Yes, thanks for sharing and adding this important perspective. I would like to add that a large percentage of P's catalogue deals with emotional pain...not just an artistic theme as this pain was a constant in his life: loneliness, inability to maintain emotional connections, self-imposed solitude, fights with his record company, the name change, loss of his children and marriages, being short and small (there, I've said it) yet when anyone on this site suggests he may have been tryig to dull his emotional pain with whatever he could get his hands on, the org. exploes in denial. I've always wondered why emotional pain is so easily dismissed as we've all experienced it and it hurts like hell.

DD55 said:

Bodhitheblackdog said:

Yes, thanks for sharing and adding this important perspective. I would like to add that a large percentage of P's catalogue deals with emotional pain...not just an artistic theme as this pain was a constant in his life: loneliness, inability to maintain emotional connections, self-imposed solitude, fights with his record company, the name change, loss of his children and marriages, being short and small (there, I've said it) yet when anyone on this site suggests he may have been tryig to dull his emotional pain with whatever he could get his hands on, the org. exploes in denial. I've always wondered why emotional pain is so easily dismissed as we've all experienced it and it hurts like hell.

Bod, I think your description of emotional pain is very accurate, especially since it is so easily dismissed by many people. I believe he needed to see someone professionally but was not the sort to see a therapist/ psychologist/ psychiatrist. Some people come home and have drink; it’s just trying to ease the pain.

..

As for P’s ‘anti drug’ stand… Prince said a lot of things and changed his mind all the time. Not letting anyone tape an interview gave him the freedom of deniability. If he were so straightforward, why not state things ‘on the record’?

.

To compound the issue I, I think we’re hung up on definations and intent.

.

Recreational drug use to me is a bunch of teenagers smoking a joint at a party. Taking a vicodin because of pain (physical or emotional ) is not recreational to me. That is self medicating.

.

Where we’re getting hung up is the drugs he had were illegitimate and not legally obtained. So to bring this around, I would have to summarize that my belief is that P was self medicating, with medication he obtained through illegal channels. For how long, we may never know.

.

Not being under a medical professional’s care, I believe he probably was addicted (hence the intervention planned). Does P having been addicted to medication take away from his legacy, NO; do we love him less, NO; but what is all this arguing over semantics accomplishing?

.

Sorry for the rant.

.

DD55

WOW DD55, what you call a rant is the very best synthesis/conclusion/observation I've read on the org. since P passed. Would add re " was not the sort to see a therapist/psychologist/psychiatrist...some people come home and have a drink; it's just trying to ease the pain." Some people come home to loved ones who are in it with you for the long haul. Even without professional training, sharing your burdens with someone you trust, someone who loves you and is on your side always is possibly the best therapy. Because Prince would never hang in there, work our differences, view loyalty and fidelity as something worth fighting to establish and maintain...he never had that most profound of human connections...the kinds that are truly life enriching and when the chips are down, life saving. At the end of the day, when I think of all the 'lovers', all the exquisite ideation of 'love' that suffused his work...I suspect he never had a clue what love really was and this is what makes me weep for him the most.