TheEnglishGent said:

It's all objective, I didn't like black star.

I don't wanna hijack the thread into a Bowie thread, but I did want to address this real quick.

I fully, fully appreciate the creativeness and uniqueness and artistic side of David Bowie. I can't always dig what he's putting out, but I always appreciate that no one else is doing it, and he's continued to stand as a true innovator with technology and music, a mad genius in production, and an overall great showman. He gets as much props from me as Prince does, but I don't own a lot of Bowie records.

I took some interest in ✭ a while after he died. It's an odd record. But if I get past the Bowiesque nature of it, it's a really well produced and written album. His lyrics continue to make me look things up, and find out where he's coming from. I continue to listen to the production and the time signature, and the melody of ✭, wondering "WTF is he thinking?" Of course, I've thought that a lot while listening to a Bowie record in the past. It really is a goodbye, a confession, and a lament. So for that, I can listen to it more, and learn to hear the painful truth that he was giving his farewell on this record, and in the videos for "✭" and "Lazarus".

You're totally right in that it's all relative. It's why we all debate over "The Arms of Orion" or "Life Can Be So Nice", or whatever. It's taste, preference, not solid fact. I do wonder if Prince would have released a particular record if he knew his time was limited due to cancer, or a tumor, or whatever fatal disease he had. But he didn't. He didn't know. His death was unexpected, and still partially unexplained (not going into all that here). I think there was probably another HnR coming, or maybe a year or two off, then a whole new project There is a bit of poetic serendipity in "that's it" being the last words on record while alive. But HnR2 is not a final masterpiece. It wasn't delivered that way, recorded that way, or otherwise.

I suppose in some fashion, it's best to go out kicking, rather than grasping for straws.

TrivialPursuit said:

TheEnglishGent said:

It's all objective, I didn't like black star.

It's taste, preference, not solid fact.

I'd say this is what I find somewhat sad. While there's no such thing as solid fact, "taste" and "preference" are irrelevant to some extent. What gets interesting is analysis and perspective. Confronting "tastes" and "preference" endlessly is sterile because save saying "I see where you're coming from" it simply annihilates the possibility of debate and ends-up in 10 pages-long threads where nothing, or least very little, has been said in the end. No one has learned anything, no one has changed their mind. Scarier is the confusion between "tastes" and "solid fact" people make when they say "Song X is good" or "Song X is mediocre", instead of saying "I like Song X" or "Song X does nothing for me". Even worse is when this comes from people who say "I've listened to Song X once 15 years ago and never again because it sucks" or new fans making judgement on an album they've heard for the first time today, after a listen or two. Obviously one needs to submerge themselves a little more than that in a record or song before being able to say something relevant, either positive or negative, about it. That's the reason why I've always tended to refrain from posting my opinion about new albums in the immediate days or even weeks after they were released, I wanted to wait until I actually had had time to "get to know them" before commenting them.

njemelbourne said:

I could be alone in this thought but I consider Art Official Age to be his final masterpiece.

With absolute classics like the incredible Breakdown, Clouds, Way Back, Time and This Could B I think he really put the effort into this album and he was back in form which made his passing even more tragic. It sounded like he was getting his mojo back...

I don't count the Hit and Run's to be anything but compilations BTW...

You are not alone - I agree.

mbdtyler said:

stop pulling threads out of one's arse.....please

AOA is it for me. Yes, Purple Rain is THE masterpice, but AOA is genius.

BoraBora said:

For me he released a final masterpiece, "Art Official Age".

In my book the two HnR are archival releases more than projected cohesive albums.

agreed.

you could do much, much worse than AOA for a final album. it's solid from start to finish,
with some absolutely wonderful songs and great moments on it, plus it feels like a whole
and cohesive effort.

I mostly wonder what Prince felt about all of that. He was kind of dismissive about picking a favorite when the talk came around to "all of his children." I wonder what he himself truly considered to be his own "masterpiece," if he ever felt he'd acheived this, or his most satisfying work on an artistic scale.

Genesia said:

njemelbourne said:

I could be alone in this thought but I consider Art Official Age to be his final masterpiece.

With absolute classics like the incredible Breakdown, Clouds, Way Back, Time and This Could B I think he really put the effort into this album and he was back in form which made his passing even more tragic. It sounded like he was getting his mojo back...

I don't count the Hit and Run's to be anything but compilations BTW...

You are not alone - I agree.

Yeah, there have been many, many threads about this. I don't agree myself but that's just me.

rogifan said:

I haven't listened to Blackstar and I'll admit I never listened to a lot of Bowie over the years. But let's be honest was Prince's music ever really that critically acclaimed by music journalists? Rolling stone did two greatest guitar player lists and on the first one Prince didn't even make the list and on the second one he was in the 30s behind Joey Ramone. It wasn't until after his death that he got the proper acclaim from the music media IMO. I think he always had the respect of his peers though.

I'd say from about 2004 onwards Prince received nothing but critical acclaim for his back catalogue and live shows. Rolling Stone rated prince number 1 most underrated guitarist way back in 2007.


and Johnny Ramone was a great guitarist.

[Edited 2/16/17 13:35pm]

AOA.

HNR2.

Maybe Black Is The New Black was Prince's final masterpeice???

njemelbourne said:

IMO HitNRun Phase 2 is a masterpiece.

Art Official Age was hands down his departing, "peace out earth" album.

If Art Official Age does not qualify as a masterpiece, then I don't know what does. And, HITNRUN Phase 2 is phenomenal. Prince went out still in virtuoso form. The man was flat-out peerless.

Germanegro said:

FlyOnTheWall said:

If Art Official Age does not qualify as a masterpiece, then I don't know what does. And, HITNRUN Phase 2 is phenomenal. Prince went out still in virtuoso form. The man was flat-out peerless.

considering the Hit N Run albums were perhaps not really designed as full fledged albums
in their own right, or whatever (you know what i mean), i find Phase 2 to indeed be just a
phenomenal release. it's a very good album none the less, even if it isn't really one. or yes
whatever

Time will tell, but none of his last albums are masterpieces.

IstenSzek said:

FlyOnTheWall said:

If Art Official Age does not qualify as a masterpiece, then I don't know what does. And, HITNRUN Phase 2 is phenomenal. Prince went out still in virtuoso form. The man was flat-out peerless.

considering the Hit N Run albums were perhaps not really designed as full fledged albums
in their own right, or whatever (you know what i mean), i find Phase 2 to indeed be just a
phenomenal release. it's a very good album none the less, even if it isn't really one. or yes
whatever

Shawy89 said:

Not trying to criticize his later albums, I know a lot of Prince folks here dig the HITnRUN albums, Art Offical Age, Plectrum Electrum...

But look at David Bowie, for instance, in 2013 he released The Next Day which was a good album by normal standards, but then before his death he dropped Blackstar which is hands down one of the most brilliant pieces of music released this decade.

I just wish Prince was more careful about the nature of his body of work during the later stages of his career, there's a reason why those albums weren't critically acclaimed or successful in the charts, it's not because he (allegedly) wasn't relevant or old, maybe they weren't that attractive, that stimulating...

I'm sure his vault contains some pretty solid material that can be rightfully and properly compiled into a great album... ya never know...

To me 'The Next Day' is far ahead of 'Blackstar'. The praising 'Blackstar' receives is due to almost teatrical way that album apperead - good timing and everything. Good ideas - like always w/ David all over that record, but if something seems messy that's 'Blackstar'.

.

AOA w/ Prince seems like it's not pushed as far as his genius was (certainly) ready to go, but if one is not ready to go deep into details - like me, i don't see what not to love about this record, top-notch stuff.

HnR Ph. 1/2... well, that is a true effort and ambition, putting all that material together + meanwhile composing something as beatufiul as Reveleation.

And i was watching his concerto at Montreux 2013, 3 nights... well, i'm speachless when it comes to that energy and spirit... but let me tell ya, i can't name one living thing that can come close to that.

He did .

It's called Art Official Age.

i like his final albums quite a bit. but i do wish he was still around, dropping more

njemelbourne said:

I could be alone in this thought but I consider Art Official Age to be his final masterpiece.

With absolute classics like the incredible Breakdown, Clouds, Way Back, Time and This Could B I think he really put the effort into this album and he was back in form which made his passing even more tragic. It sounded like he was getting his mojo back...

I don't count the Hit and Run's to be anything but compilations BTW...

AOA is definitely a masterpiece. But others would have followed; and even HnR Part One is pretty good.

It has not been released yet.

How are you feeling today Mr Nelson?

I trust you're having a quick and enjoyable adjustment period
As you can see, we are communicating now telepathically

Which makes things move so much faster here
After you've completed the planned affirmation therapy
You will find this way of interaction far easier

You've probably felt for many years in your former life
That you were separate from not only others, but even yourself
Now you can see that was never the case
You are actually everything and anything that you can think of
All of it is you

Remember, there is really only one destination, and that place is you
All of it, everything is you.

[Edited 2/17/17 2:31am]

IstenSzek said:

FlyOnTheWall said:

If Art Official Age does not qualify as a masterpiece, then I don't know what does. And, HITNRUN Phase 2 is phenomenal. Prince went out still in virtuoso form. The man was flat-out peerless.

considering the Hit N Run albums were perhaps not really designed as full fledged albums
in their own right, or whatever (you know what i mean), i find Phase 2 to indeed be just a
phenomenal release. it's a very good album none the less, even if it isn't really one. or yes
whatever

Agree on both.

.

Even though Phase 2 is a compilation of tracks from 2010-2015 it flows well, maybe apart from Screwdriver, and has some top notch material.

Shawy89 said:

Not trying to criticize his later albums, I know a lot of Prince folks here dig the HITnRUN albums, Art Offical Age, Plectrum Electrum...

But look at David Bowie, for instance, in 2013 he released The Next Day which was a good album by normal standards, but then before his death he dropped Blackstar which is hands down one of the most brilliant pieces of music released this decade.

I just wish Prince was more careful about the nature of his body of work during the later stages of his career, there's a reason why those albums weren't critically acclaimed or successful in the charts, it's not because he (allegedly) wasn't relevant or old, maybe they weren't that attractive, that stimulating...

I'm sure his vault contains some pretty solid material that can be rightfully and properly compiled into a great album... ya never know...

I didnt Dig BLack STAR ,

I think where Prince was going with SHades of Umber could possibly be Masterpiece ish...

Apparently there is more where that came from...

luvgirl said:

The Piano and Microphone shows was his final masterpiece.

It would be if the estate release the last Atlanta show like he told the audience he was going to at the last PP party