laurarichardson said:

rogifan said:

What is so great about Tidal? are you a spokesperson for it or something?

--The music is avalible to buy not rent and the sound quality is excellent. You are only going to get WB stuff on Sportify which if you are old school fan you should have anyway.

That's the thing, this is not about old school fans. Of course we all have that stuff, but a bunch of 40+ year olds listening to a CD of Lovesexy they bought decades ago is not going to keep Prince relevant or his catalog financially viable in the generations to come. And who cares if it's on Tidal, the vast majority of consumers today don't use it. They use Spotify or Apple Music.

.

Prince is dead. There are no more tours or appearances to bring new people in. His catalog is it. And hiding it away just for the "true funk soldiers" is a quick trip to being forgotten. That's the reality of 2017 and without Prince here nothing is going to change that.

how willl this affect the vault material beoing released?

laurarichardson said:

GustavoRibas said:

I know Prince wasnt happy with these services, but he is no longer with us and the legacy must go on. Non fans should have access to his music.

--Non-fans incapable of going to Tidal or buying the cd and placing the music in a cloud. Do some of you have stock in Sportify.

.

- I dont even have Spotify, but, as far as I know, it´s extremely popular.

renfield said:

renfield said:

laurarichardson said:

rogifan said: --The music is avalible to buy not rent and the sound quality is excellent. You are only going to get WB stuff on Sportify which if you are old school fan you should have anyway.

That's the thing, this is not about old school fans. Of course we all have that stuff, but a bunch of 40+ year olds listening to a CD of Lovesexy they bought decades ago is not going to keep Prince relevant or his catalog financially viable in the generations to come. And who cares if it's on Tidal, the vast majority of consumers today don't use it. They use Spotify or Apple Music.

.

Prince is dead. There are no more tours or appearances to bring new people in. His catalog is it. And hiding it away just for the "true funk soldiers" is a quick trip to being forgotten. That's the reality of 2017 and without Prince here nothing is going to change that.

.

- AMEN. Sometimes fans forget how it is to be a non fan.

Just an example: I am not a Bowie fan. When he died, I decided I should know more about him. I didnt search for an obscure bootleg of a concert in a pub from his early years. I went right after his greatest hits. And enjoyed the hits I already knew and discovered other cool songs.

[Edited 2/1/17 18:52pm]

When Prince passed, a friend of mine asked me where he could find his classic albums and I said he couldnt, only maybe on Tidal. Do you all think he subscribed to Tidal only for that? No, he found some isolated songs here and there....IMO, it´s a shame.

[Edited 2/1/17 18:58pm]

renfield said:

laurarichardson said:

rogifan said: --The music is avalible to buy not rent and the sound quality is excellent. You are only going to get WB stuff on Sportify which if you are old school fan you should have anyway.

That's the thing, this is not about old school fans. Of course we all have that stuff, but a bunch of 40+ year olds listening to a CD of Lovesexy they bought decades ago is not going to keep Prince relevant or his catalog financially viable in the generations to come. And who cares if it's on Tidal, the vast majority of consumers today don't use it. They use Spotify or Apple Music.

.

Prince is dead. There are no more tours or appearances to bring new people in. His catalog is it. And hiding it away just for the "true funk soldiers" is a quick trip to being forgotten. That's the reality of 2017 and without Prince here nothing is going to change that.

THIS.

laurarichardson said:

SomeSoldier said:

rogifan said:

laurarichardson said:

--The music is avalible to buy not rent and the sound quality is excellent. You are only going to get WB stuff on Sportify which if you are old school fan you should have anyway.

Tidal has a a streaming service.

Tidal pays the artists as well

ldmendes said:

renfield said:

rogifan said:

GustavoRibas said:

laurarichardson said:

GustavoRibas said:

.

- I dont even have Spotify, but, as far as I know, it´s extremely popular.

--I never said it was not popular I said the estate is not going to make much money.

They probably made some deal. I think Spotify paid them some extra money to access his catalog. Also, artists are well paid if they have 100m plays in Prince case it shouldn't be a problem.

Spotify is probably not a good business for indie artists or alternative artists.

But's it's a good promo platform tho. More people playing your songs usually means more tickets sold to your concerts.

TKO said:

laurarichardson said:

TKO said:

They probably made some deal. I think Spotify paid them some extra money to access his catalog. Also, artists are well paid if they have 100m plays in Prince case it shouldn't be a problem.

Spotify is probably not a good business for indie artists or alternative artists.

But's it's a good promo platform tho. More people playing your songs usually means more tickets sold to your concerts.

--Considering some of the things coming out about Londell I am doubtful the estate got a good deal and the estate is not in a position to drive a hard bargain. Prince will not be selling any more concert tickets so how will being on Sportify help promote his music.

People playing his songs, more fans, more merchandising, more album releases, probably a movie about his life at some point.

Look at MJ. Prince was the best selling artist of 2016.

MJ is making millions while he's dead.

laurarichardson said:

rogifan said:

laurarichardson said:

--I never said it was not popular I said the estate is not going to make much money.

The estate is not going to make much keeping it off streaming services either. That's the problem with this whole discussion; the false narrative that putting his music on streaming services is going to cost the estate $$. Die hards will still buy his albums and everyone else probably wouldn't have bought them anyway. And he can only die once. I believe a big PR campaign around his music coming to streaming services will get more people interested in his catalog. And as I've said numerous times the estate can keep new releases off of streaming services for a period of time to get more album sales. Adele has done it, so has Coldplay. Of course if this is just limited to WB music that would be a shame. Lots of good stuff outside of that which a lot of people don't know about because it's never been available for digital purchase on services like iTunes. Most people DO NOT use Tidal.

--

You need to go and read the court docs. The contract that Roc Nation had with Prince is being allowed to be a claim. The estate is going to have to pay back the four 750k advances that Roc Nation claims to have paid directly to Prince before the rest of that music can come off Tidal.

Do you think the estate got a 750k advance for the WB material do you think more advances are coming this year from Sportify? There is a chance the estate may be violating the Tidal agreement by putting the WB stuff up if so the estate could be sued and lose money. Not to mention whatever pennies they make while this stuff is on Sportify will not make up for a almost 2 million dollar repayment and possible punitive damages.

What makes you think most people who want Prince's music do not use Tidal. It is not like they did not advertise and he certainly talked it up. Do you realize he was the top selling artist last year the only place you could get the bulk of the music was from T idal so how would people not know? WHy do you think Tidal is filing a claim? If no one brought or streamed any of Prince's music off of Tidal why would they want to keep it on the service?

laurarichardson said:

renfield said:

That's the thing, this is not about old school fans. Of course we all have that stuff, but a bunch of 40+ year olds listening to a CD of Lovesexy they bought decades ago is not going to keep Prince relevant or his catalog financially viable in the generations to come. And who cares if it's on Tidal, the vast majority of consumers today don't use it. They use Spotify or Apple Music.

.

Prince is dead. There are no more tours or appearances to bring new people in. His catalog is it. And hiding it away just for the "true funk soldiers" is a quick trip to being forgotten. That's the reality of 2017 and without Prince here nothing is going to change that.

--Pennies are not going to help the finacial stituation of the estate just like those pennies would not have helped him when he was alive. Do you realize that if he received 4 750k payments from Tidal that was a better deal and something like that would be a better deal for the estate. I also do not need one more genius telling me his dead I know that and I understand that revenue is more important now than ever before. I also could give a shitless about what younger people are listening to they do not even buy music in large quanties and who is to say that the rhythemless nation is even going to like Prince's music look how bad the greats hits just did in the charts. [Edited 2/2/17 8:26am]

I know it's pointless arguing this with you, but.......it doesn't matter if YOU don't care about younger generations. If the estate doesn't make his music accessible to younger people, the way they want it, then Prince dies with us. I'm not talking about Prince being a huge Drake-styled pop star; I'm talking about his work staying accessible and in the public consciousness. I'm talking about future generations discovering him the way we discovered Marvin and the Beatles and Jimi. Those artists still have a lucrative catalogue decades after their deaths. Imagine if their estates had kept their music off CD in the 90s and only the old vinyl was available? Look at Aaliyah...her uncle keeps her music off streaming services and she is rapidly being forgotten. Within another generation it will be too late and no one will remember her. I don't want to see that happen to Prince (and of course I know he had much more impact than her, I'm just saying). There will be no more huge upfront advances. There will be no more huge hit albums. The estate is playing the long game, keeping his image and music around for decades to come, not just selling a few albums every couple of years to an audience sliding toward social security. That's what they need to be doing. Prince isn't just ours anymore, and if we try to keep it that way then we're doing his work and his memory a HUGE disservice.

[Edited 2/2/17 13:31pm]

renfield said:

laurarichardson said:

renfield said:

I know it's pointless arguing this with you, but.......it doesn't matter if YOU don't care about younger generations. If the estate doesn't make his music accessible to younger people, the way they want it, then Prince dies with us. I'm not talking about Prince being a huge Drake-styled pop star; I'm talking about his work staying accessible and in the public consciousness. I'm talking about future generations discovering him the way we discovered Marvin and the Beatles and Jimi. Those artists still have a lucrative catalogue decades after their deaths. Imagine if their estates had kept their music off CD in the 90s and only the old vinyl was available? Look at Aaliyah...her uncle keeps her music off streaming services and she is rapidly being forgotten. Within another generation it will be too late and no one will remember her. I don't want to see that happen to Prince (and of course I know he had much more impact than her, I'm just saying). There will be no more huge upfront advances. There will be no more huge hit albums. The estate is playing the long game, keeping his image and music around for decades to come, not just selling a few albums every couple of years to an audience sliding toward social security. That's what they need to be doing. Prince isn't just ours anymore, and if we try to keep it that way then we're doing his work and his memory a HUGE disservice.

[Edited 2/2/17 13:31pm]

You are right it is pointless for your to argue with me because numbers back up what I am saying. Young people do not buy or stream music in large amounts music sales are extremely low as younger people are just into music like we were. The estate should cut deals that payout upfront fees just like the record lables receive because the streaming revenue alone in not going to amount to anything. The estate can make more money by placing songs in T.V and movie that is were the money is. I also line Susan Rigers idea of a subscription service for the vault material with the bulk of the money going back to the estate not Universal collecting their fee or platforms services getting their cut. If you ask for pennies you get pennies if you ask for dollars you get dollars.

I have some numbers: In the streaming world, Tidal has .10% marketshare and .30% share of all streaming revenues. Apple and Spotify together have 70% marketshare and 83% of the streaming revenue. Tidal currently has about 1 million paying subscribers, Apple Music 17 million, and Spotify 40 million (100 million total listeners). [https://thetrichordist.com/2017/01/16/updated-streaming-price-bible-w-2016-rates-spotify-apple-music-youtube-tidal-amazon-pandora-etc/]

*

And from the LA Times in September:

*

"Continuing growth of music streaming led an overall revenue increase of 8.1% for the music business during the first half of 2016, with subscriptions for those streaming services topping $1 billion for the first time during the first six months of the year."

*

"Total music industry revenue hit $3.4 billion for the first half of this year, up from $3.2 billion during the same period last year, representing “the strongest industry growth since the late 1990s,” according to the trade association."

*

"Revenue from streaming accounted for 47% of that business, with permanent downloads constituting 31% and physical sales 20%, and the remaining 3% coming from synchronization licensing fees."

*

And finally, creating a Vault Subscription service, which, again, would only reach diehard fans, is a quick way to doom Prince's music to obscurity.

*

And this IS a pointless argument because soon his catalog will be on Spotify and Apple Music and then we can all go back to arguing about something else.

renfield said:

laurarichardson said:

rogifan said:

laurarichardson said:

You are right it is pointless for your to argue with me because numbers back up what I am saying. Young people do not buy or stream music in large amounts music sales are extremely low as younger people are just into music like we were. The estate should cut deals that payout upfront fees just like the record lables receive because the streaming revenue alone in not going to amount to anything. The estate can make more money by placing songs in T.V and movie that is were the money is. I also line Susan Rigers idea of a subscription service for the vault material with the bulk of the money going back to the estate not Universal collecting their fee or platforms services getting their cut. If you ask for pennies you get pennies if you ask for dollars you get dollars.

Explain then why Hit N Run Phase 2 is available on Apple Music right now.

Because he had a clause with Tidal that he could put the music on other services. Who would agree to such a thing that would not allow the owner of the music to decide were to put it. Prince also distrubed HIT N Run 2 via Peer to Peer I believe that was going to be done in parellel with Tidal. Tidal it appears to have had an exclusive 90 day deal with Prince on some material and not on others. Why do you think the WB material is only going to streaming?

Now we do not know what the deal was with all of the music but RocNation has asked to see the deals that have been made with other plateforms so it could be that the WB music was not a part of the 90 days or the NPG stuff is exclusive to Tidal.

I guess it will all matter as to what is in the agreement between Prince Rogers Nelson and Pathfinder.

Keep in mind this appears to be an agreement that no one at Breamer or even Londell knew anything about.

rogifan said:

renfield said:

I know it's pointless arguing this with you, but.......it doesn't matter if YOU don't care about younger generations. If the estate doesn't make his music accessible to younger people, the way they want it, then Prince dies with us. I'm not talking about Prince being a huge Drake-styled pop star; I'm talking about his work staying accessible and in the public consciousness. I'm talking about future generations discovering him the way we discovered Marvin and the Beatles and Jimi. Those artists still have a lucrative catalogue decades after their deaths. Imagine if their estates had kept their music off CD in the 90s and only the old vinyl was available? Look at Aaliyah...her uncle keeps her music off streaming services and she is rapidly being forgotten. Within another generation it will be too late and no one will remember her. I don't want to see that happen to Prince (and of course I know he had much more impact than her, I'm just saying). There will be no more huge upfront advances. There will be no more huge hit albums. The estate is playing the long game, keeping his image and music around for decades to come, not just selling a few albums every couple of years to an audience sliding toward social security. That's what they need to be doing. Prince isn't just ours anymore, and if we try to keep it that way then we're doing his work and his memory a HUGE disservice.

[Edited 2/2/17 13:31pm]

Exactly. And like I said it doesn't matter how much (or little) the estate makes off of his music being available on streaming services. It's about exposing his music to a new generation and keeping his legacy alive.

It matter very much how much the estate makes unless you want to see a fire sale. Once again people want to control someone else's money. Sad

alannevets said:

laurarichardson said:

renfield said: You are right it is pointless for your to argue with me because numbers back up what I am saying. Young people do not buy or stream music in large amounts music sales are extremely low as younger people are just into music like we were. The estate should cut deals that payout upfront fees just like the record lables receive because the streaming revenue alone in not going to amount to anything. The estate can make more money by placing songs in T.V and movie that is were the money is. I also line Susan Rigers idea of a subscription service for the vault material with the bulk of the money going back to the estate not Universal collecting their fee or platforms services getting their cut. If you ask for pennies you get pennies if you ask for dollars you get dollars.

I have some numbers: In the streaming world, Tidal has .10% marketshare and .30% share of all streaming revenues. Apple and Spotify together have 70% marketshare and 83% of the streaming revenue. Tidal currently has about 1 million paying subscribers, Apple Music 17 million, and Spotify 40 million (100 million total listeners). [https://thetrichordist.com/2017/01/16/updated-streaming-price-bible-w-2016-rates-spotify-apple-music-youtube-tidal-amazon-pandora-etc/]

*

And from the LA Times in September:

*

"Continuing growth of music streaming led an overall revenue increase of 8.1% for the music business during the first half of 2016, with subscriptions for those streaming services topping $1 billion for the first time during the first six months of the year."

*

"Total music industry revenue hit $3.4 billion for the first half of this year, up from $3.2 billion during the same period last year, representing “the strongest industry growth since the late 1990s,” according to the trade association."

*

"Revenue from streaming accounted for 47% of that business, with permanent downloads constituting 31% and physical sales 20%, and the remaining 3% coming from synchronization licensing fees."

*

And finally, creating a Vault Subscription service, which, again, would only reach diehard fans, is a quick way to doom Prince's music to obscurity.

*

And this IS a pointless argument because soon his catalog will be on Spotify and Apple Music and then we can all go back to arguing about something else.

And when the family takes over that music could be gone. The music does not belong to fans, Londell or Breamer it belongs to the Nelson family. I will post some articles about the measly amounts of money the artist actually receive from streaming revenue. The industry gets the fat check not the artist. You are also getting this information from the music industry which is hysterical.

As I mentioned, most of that revenue is from those upfront annual payments which aren't passed onto the artists.