SquirrelMeat said:

KoolEaze said:

Prince once said that there were several vaults, not just the one at Paisley.

Prince also said that he would be free of WB by chaning his name.

KoolEaze said:

SquirrelMeat said:

What is interesting is, if they come from the reels and dates, then songs like Everybody Wants, Blanche and I Could never take the place of your man were recorded within 3 days of each other. Yet only one is listed.

If every reel contained an individual song, the vault would need to be a lot bigger than it is.

Prince once said that there were several vaults, not just the one at Paisley.

I'm sure he would have had something akin to a vault in each of his homes.

But yes - he did explicitly say in TV interviews that there was more than one vault.

Dibblekins said:

KoolEaze said:

Prince once said that there were several vaults, not just the one at Paisley.

I'm sure he would have had something akin to a vault in each of his homes.

But yes - he did explicitly say in TV interviews that there was more than one vault.

I think I just ASSUMED they were all at Paisley, it never occurred to me they may be in alternate occasions. But, now I'm thinking you guys might be on to something, especially if he never stated where the "more than one" was located...

KlyphIsBackAgain said:

I just skimmed through the lists and it seems to me that the individual songs listed are either: A) Songs that he gave to WB, both ones that were used or ones on early config of albums. In other words, songs that have "masters". B) Songs that were recorded by other artists. C) Songs that sampled his or he got some sort of credit. I dont think this is a list of "vault" contents at all.

Very interesting.

laytonian said:

This obviously isn't "complete" by any means, being that alot of the unreleased recordings and videos still have yet to be inventoried. Guess i'll wait until it's revised to dive into everything.

djThunderfunk said:

Noticed '03 Bonnie And Clyde on the list. AFAIK, it merely contains a borrowed lyric from If I Was Your Girlfriend... Guess that's enought to list it among his assets?!?

Hell yeah, they were smart enough to give him writer's credit for it, so he made a shit load of money off of it and didn't have to sue them senseless. Which we all know he damn sure would have done.

djThunderfunk said:

KlyphIsBackAgain said:

I just skimmed through the lists and it seems to me that the individual songs listed are either: A) Songs that he gave to WB, both ones that were used or ones on early config of albums. In other words, songs that have "masters". B) Songs that were recorded by other artists. C) Songs that sampled his or he got some sort of credit. I dont think this is a list of "vault" contents at all.

Very interesting.

I forgot. Also songs that were on his albums period, self-released or otherwise, and movie soundtrack crap (Like the different versions of Purple Rain are probably just different tracks from the movie, say the tape version, the piano version, and the "performance version".)

[Edited 1/10/17 4:46am]

KlyphIsBackAgain said:

djThunderfunk said:

Very interesting.

I forgot. Also songs that were on his albums period, self-released or otherwise, and movie soundtrack crap (Like the different versions of Purple Rain are probably just different tracks from the movie, say the tape version, the piano version, and the "performance version".)

[Edited 1/10/17 4:46am]

I noticed tracks like Chris & Tricky... Figured they were incidental tracks from the movies.

Would love to here the "score" for UTCM. Release It!!

It's very sad indeed that just because someones has passed, the personal details of their life is made available to the media circus.

.

I strongly wish this document had not been made public as it is none of our business.

.

scorp84 said:

djThunderfunk said:

I think the song list is the low-hanging fruit. Easy to inventory because MOST of it is compiled for them, and may have generated $$ at some point.

The man recorded EVERYTHING and PP was wired throughout. That's a lot of tape. If the jam sessions, recordings with other artists (Bonnie Raitt comes to mind), soundboard ANYTHING, rehearsals, etc. are going to be listed among assets, this is going to take forever. It's almost 40 years of recordings.

The nature of the way this list was made, leaves more questions than anything. We know what got out, and while there are new things in there Silk's Gett Off remixes are not listed. So that leads me to think that it is either the labels on tape reels/etc. that were listed or even mixed in with another list.

Did they just go through the material and write what was on the label? I could easily see multiple reels of 'Purple Rain (Cues)' not necessarily all being the song but cues and excerpts of things intended for/used in the film. Multiple UTCM's listed could be multiple versions, or in the vein of PR Cues, it could just have not been labeled well. Or both.

Then I'm questioning if this is potentially a list of songs that were registered or copyrighted that were known to b?

Whatever the source is, it is not very well organized or catalogued.

InwardJim said:

The nature of the way this list was made, leaves more questions than anything. We know what got out, and while there are new things in there Silk's Gett Off remixes are not listed. So that leads me to think that it is either the labels on tape reels/etc. that were listed or even mixed in with another list.

Did they just go through the material and write what was on the label? I could easily see multiple reels of 'Purple Rain (Cues)' not necessarily all being the song but cues and excerpts of things intended for/used in the film. Multiple UTCM's listed could be multiple versions, or in the vein of PR Cues, it could just have not been labeled well. Or both.

Then I'm questioning if this is potentially a list of songs that were registered or copyrighted that were known to b?

Whatever the source is, it is not very well organized or catalogued.

This is not the final list

MrNelson7 said:

I think the song list is the low-hanging fruit. Easy to inventory because MOST of it is compiled for them, and may have generated $$ at some point.

The man recorded EVERYTHING and PP was wired throughout. That's a lot of tape. If the jam sessions, recordings with other artists (Bonnie Raitt comes to mind), soundboard ANYTHING, rehearsals, etc. are going to be listed among assets, this is going to take forever. It's almost 40 years of recordings.

So then here's another dimension for the courts ...

those sessions with Bonnie Raitt, or (if much exists) Esperanza Spalding or Lenny Kravitz - they weren't work for hire, so what claim should they have to them?

The Rita Ora work? Mono Neon? Andy Allo? It would be interesting to see what deals were in place initially for these (if any). If there were none, can the court legally assign the work to Prince solely because of potential value or location of recording being housed?

Even 3rdEyeGirl - they were touted as a group for the recordings, not 'Prince & 3rdEyeGirl.' What claim does Ida, Donna, and Hannah (sigh, and even Joshua) have to the 3EG specific works? If their contract was just as hired musicians, it streamlines that - but we know that members of the group wrote songs, too. I have a feeling we have not yet seen weird.

[Edited 1/10/17 9:40am]

KlyphIsBackAgain said:

I just skimmed through the lists and it seems to me that the individual songs listed are either: A) Songs that he gave to WB, both ones that were used or ones on early config of albums. In other words, songs that have "masters". B) Songs that were recorded by other artists. C) Songs that sampled his or he got some sort of credit. I dont think this is a list of "vault" contents at all.

.

Agreed.

It looks like the list that would have been given to Universal when they gained the publishing rights.

The vault items, until properly analyzed and catalogued, might not be considered "published" yet.

i'm not sure, but did P really have that little in his bank accounts? I'm shocked to see amounts in the tens of thousands of dollars.

brokenhearted1972 said:

i'm not sure, but did P really have that little in his bank accounts? I'm shocked to see amounts in the tens of thousands of dollars.

Keep in mind there are personal accounts, business accounts, and cash. If I am reading it correctly, he had over $55,000 in cash, and over 8,000,000 "cash on hand" through the companies of which he was the sole shareholder. He was doing just fine.

brokenhearted1972 said:

i'm not sure, but did P really have that little in his bank accounts? I'm shocked to see amounts in the tens of thousands of dollars.

People at his income level keep liquid cash low and their money in investments and corporations.

InwardJim said:

MrNelson7 said:

I think the song list is the low-hanging fruit. Easy to inventory because MOST of it is compiled for them, and may have generated $$ at some point.

The man recorded EVERYTHING and PP was wired throughout. That's a lot of tape. If the jam sessions, recordings with other artists (Bonnie Raitt comes to mind), soundboard ANYTHING, rehearsals, etc. are going to be listed among assets, this is going to take forever. It's almost 40 years of recordings.

So then here's another dimension for the courts ...

those sessions with Bonnie Raitt, or (if much exists) Esperanza Spalding or Lenny Kravitz - they weren't work for hire, so what claim should they have to them?

The Rita Ora work? Mono Neon? Andy Allo? It would be interesting to see what deals were in place initially for these (if any). If there were none, can the court legally assign the work to Prince solely because of potential value or location of recording being housed?

Even 3rdEyeGirl - they were touted as a group for the recordings, not 'Prince & 3rdEyeGirl.' What claim does Ida, Donna, and Hannah (sigh, and even Joshua) have to the 3EG specific works? If their contract was just as hired musicians, it streamlines that - but we know that members of the group wrote songs, too. I have a feeling we have not yet seen weird.

[Edited 1/10/17 9:40am]

If they are not copyright holders they have no claim. If they are copyright holders then they are entitled to their share of whatever proceeds are coming.

InwardJim said:

https://www.youtube.com/w...Jdsb5mUxbw

^ Hunting for P's Vaults (8 minutes feat the NPG), old program.. before P's passing.....



I think made by BBC(?) feat.

Susan Rogers,
Michael Bland,
Cat,
Eric Leeds,
Alan Leeds,
Rhonda Smith,
and some more...






Question at 7:38:

"do you think we are ever gonna hear (all) what is in the vaults"???


Sonny T.:

"No, because, I think if you could you would probably sit there (listening) for 10 years" (big laugh from Sonny T.)........ ending the program.....

laurarichardson said:

InwardJim said:

So then here's another dimension for the courts ...

those sessions with Bonnie Raitt, or (if much exists) Esperanza Spalding or Lenny Kravitz - they weren't work for hire, so what claim should they have to them?

The Rita Ora work? Mono Neon? Andy Allo? It would be interesting to see what deals were in place initially for these (if any). If there were none, can the court legally assign the work to Prince solely because of potential value or location of recording being housed?

Even 3rdEyeGirl - they were touted as a group for the recordings, not 'Prince & 3rdEyeGirl.' What claim does Ida, Donna, and Hannah (sigh, and even Joshua) have to the 3EG specific works? If their contract was just as hired musicians, it streamlines that - but we know that members of the group wrote songs, too. I have a feeling we have not yet seen weird.

[Edited 1/10/17 9:40am]

If they are not copyright holders they have no claim. If they are copyright holders then they are entitled to their share of whatever proceeds are coming.

But if none of it was submitted for copyright (specifically thinking of the Raitt and Kravitz work), where would that stand?

KlyphIsBackAgain said:

I just skimmed through the lists and it seems to me that the individual songs listed are either: A) Songs that he gave to WB, both ones that were used or ones on early config of albums. In other words, songs that have "masters". B) Songs that were recorded by other artists. C) Songs that sampled his or he got some sort of credit. I dont think this is a list of "vault" contents at all.

Yeah. Those lists are released material (though some is just released as part of movie scores and the like), not unreleased. This is not vault material.

InwardJim said:

laurarichardson said:

If they are not copyright holders they have no claim. If they are copyright holders then they are entitled to their share of whatever proceeds are coming.

But if none of it was submitted for copyright (specifically thinking of the Raitt and Kravitz work), where would that stand?

Nowhere because they do not own anything. I also find it hard to believe Prince would have a lot of stuff that was not copyrighted. One of his assitance said part of her job was making sure things were copyright as soon as they were recorded. If Prince wrote songs for people he appears to have copyrigthed the material.

laurarichardson said:

InwardJim said:

But if none of it was submitted for copyright (specifically thinking of the Raitt and Kravitz work), where would that stand?

Nowhere because they do not own anything. I also find it hard to believe Prince would have a lot of stuff that was not copyrighted. One of his assitance said part of her job was making sure things were copyright as soon as they were recorded. If Prince wrote songs for people he appears to have copyrigthed the material.

Writing for and writing with are two very different things. Just like how the publishing and the recording of a song are two very different things. It's possible to own the song but not a specific recording.

Your basis is supposition that that assistant worked to copyright absolutely everything that was recorded during their tenure AND went through the vault to make sure everything was already accounted for. While I am not saying they didn't do their job, combing the vault for anything missed may have been above and beyond that just wasn't accomplished.

We know he wasn't that careful with who was given in house recordings and demos (hence our wealth of boots). He may have been more meticulous or hired people to be in later years, but there is a precedent for him not copyrighting works as soon as they were recorded in the past.

If everything was copyrighted, there would not be able to be new songs come out of nowhere that people have never heard of. The copyright is public record, so we would already know what there was as far as the catalogue goes. To keep things mystery, to keep things hidden, expecially when he started to be careful about what he gave to WB, copyrighting would have shown his hand and given them license to take it all (or at least pursue it).

The inventory of songs looks like what's listed in the ASCAP database:

https://mobile.ascap.com/aceclient/AceWeb/#ace/writer/52210040/PRINCE

.

This would not include unreleased items. Also, any "new" song titles you see are just songs from other artists that sampled Prince.