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Thread started 07/18/16 11:37am

luv4u

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The Estate - Part 2

Continuing ................

Other thread that self locked http://prince.org/msg/7/426092

Edmonton, AB - canada
Mod Goddess of the SNIP & BAN Making Moves - OF4S
Ohh purple joy oh purple bliss oh purple rapture!
REAL MUSIC by REAL MUSICIANS - Prince
"I kind of wish there was a reason for Prince to make the site crash more" ~~ Ben
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Reply #1 posted 07/18/16 11:54am

nelcp777

More filings have been added. I am a little lost in the jargon and length. I took away that there is question about John L being Prince's father, therefore the guidelines for Parentage should not be used?

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Reply #2 posted 07/18/16 12:06pm

laurarichardso
n

nelcp777 said:

More filings have been added. I am a little lost in the jargon and length. I took away that there is question about John L being Prince's father, therefore the guidelines for Parentage should not be used?


--/ Yes, the family has provided a birth certificates and marriage certificates to say otherwise. I hope the court can show this women is running a scam or is crazy. It also believe she missed the cut off date.
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Reply #3 posted 07/18/16 12:25pm

ISaidLifeIsJus
tAGame

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nelcp777 said:

More filings have been added. I am a little lost in the jargon and length. I took away that there is question about John L being Prince's father, therefore the guidelines for Parentage should not be used?

Dont feel bad. I am an attorney and I am having problems understanding these filings. It hurts my head. Venita Jackson Leverette is the half sibling to Alfred. Mattie was Alfred's mother and Alfred Sr was his father. Venita is saying she was told Alfred Sr is Prince's father. Bremer Trust is saying you are not related to John Nelson (the father of Prince by law and not necessarily genetics) and therefore you are prohibited from taking a DNA test.

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Reply #4 posted 07/18/16 12:31pm

Sameyear58

Yeah, these docs appear to be centering around this woman trying to challenge Prince's parentage. Lawd! But to our legal eagles, is the Affidavit of Cameron M. Parkhurst (Minnesota Statutes 2008) addressing this same issue also...possibly? There are some interesting key words in there.

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Reply #5 posted 07/18/16 12:45pm

luv4u

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Edmonton, AB - canada
Mod Goddess of the SNIP & BAN Making Moves - OF4S
Ohh purple joy oh purple bliss oh purple rapture!
REAL MUSIC by REAL MUSICIANS - Prince
"I kind of wish there was a reason for Prince to make the site crash more" ~~ Ben
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Reply #6 posted 07/18/16 12:46pm

deerpath

I'm wondering the same as sameyear58. A lot about adoption and surrogates. The one man claims he is Prince's son but was adopted. And then there is the information from the sealed court documents by the law firm that hinted at an heir. What does that Parkhurst document mean? Is it possible it is about Prince's paternity or a child carried by a surrogate woman by AI? Maybe it is just process. Getting everything defined and documented about who is and who isn't in line...

"Hold on to your souls y'all. We got a long way to go. Thank you! We love y'all!"
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Reply #7 posted 07/18/16 1:11pm

Sameyear58

deerpath said:

I'm wondering the same as sameyear58. A lot about adoption and surrogates. The one man claims he is Prince's son but was adopted. And then there is the information from the sealed court documents by the law firm that hinted at an heir. What does that Parkhurst document mean? Is it possible it is about Prince's paternity or a child carried by a surrogate woman by AI? Maybe it is just process. Getting everything defined and documented about who is and who isn't in line...

Yep, I'm curious. Of course, it could all be a matter of formality but words such as the ones you posted along with terms like trust, will, guardian, and many others really jumped out at me.

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Reply #8 posted 07/18/16 1:12pm

ISaidLifeIsJus
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deerpath said:

I'm wondering the same as sameyear58. A lot about adoption and surrogates. The one man claims he is Prince's son but was adopted. And then there is the information from the sealed court documents by the law firm that hinted at an heir. What does that Parkhurst document mean? Is it possible it is about Prince's paternity or a child carried by a surrogate woman by AI? Maybe it is just process. Getting everything defined and documented about who is and who isn't in line...

Parkhust represents Darcell Johnston. The affidavit he filed encompasses legal definitions and the Judge already knows what the legal definitions are so I am unsure why he filed this document.

[Edited 7/18/16 13:27pm]

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Reply #9 posted 07/18/16 1:26pm

morningsong

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:



nelcp777 said:


More filings have been added. I am a little lost in the jargon and length. I took away that there is question about John L being Prince's father, therefore the guidelines for Parentage should not be used?



Dont feel bad. I am an attorney and I am having problems understanding these filings. It hurts my head. Venita Jackson Leverette is the half sibling to Alfred. Mattie was Alfred's mother and Alfred Sr was his father. Venita is saying she was told Alfred Sr is Prince's father. Bremer Trust is saying you are not related to John Nelson (the father of Prince by law and not necessarily genetics) and therefore you are prohibited from taking a DNA test.


I almost had to sit down with a pen and paper on this one.

Interesting what crawls out of the woodworks.
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Reply #10 posted 07/18/16 1:33pm

mailaccount63

luv4u said:

http://www.mncourts.gov/I...elson.aspx


^^^^^^^^^^ Reminder: shortcut to court filings - thanks Mod

Remember, we can read the pleadings officially filed with The Court, but we may not be getting the whole story here, and may not for quite a while.

And, even though someone may file a pleading with The Court, it doesn't mean that it is automatically "true".... it is just someone has filed a document with The Court. Some of this stuff, The Judge is going to have to make a decision on - whether to allow it or not. It is my guess, The Judge is on his phone/online discussing this case with others, getting advice on how to handle the issues, probably most of the day.


RIP Prince. We will NEVER forget you. Thank you so much.

"Dearly Beloved:
We are gathered here today 2 get through this thing called: 'Life'."
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Reply #11 posted 07/18/16 1:35pm

selah

I wanted to post this earlier in the correct thread, I know there are secret trusts, silent trusts etc., which are outside of probate.

Legal question for the experts: could a person just set up trusts without any actual will at all? Seeing as how Prince was so private..?

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Reply #12 posted 07/18/16 1:40pm

laurarichardso
n

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:



deerpath said:


I'm wondering the same as sameyear58. A lot about adoption and surrogates. The one man claims he is Prince's son but was adopted. And then there is the information from the sealed court documents by the law firm that hinted at an heir. What does that Parkhurst document mean? Is it possible it is about Prince's paternity or a child carried by a surrogate woman by AI? Maybe it is just process. Getting everything defined and documented about who is and who isn't in line...



Parkhust represents Darcell Johnston. The affidavit he filed encompasses legal definitions and the Judge already knows what the legal definitions are so I am unsure why he filed this document.

[Edited 7/18/16 13:27pm]


Because he is an asshat and may attended the Tom and Jerry school of law. Why would you explain the legal definition to the judge? If this woman has no other documents to show that she is a half sibling why did this lawyer take her case? I believe so she can be harassing enough to try to get the estate to pay her something to go away and her attorney can get some money out of it.
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Reply #13 posted 07/18/16 2:11pm

luv4u

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selah said:

I wanted to post this earlier in the correct thread, I know there are secret trusts, silent trusts etc., which are outside of probate.

Legal question for the experts: could a person just set up trusts without any actual will at all? Seeing as how Prince was so private..?


You would have to research Minnesota law.

Edmonton, AB - canada
Mod Goddess of the SNIP & BAN Making Moves - OF4S
Ohh purple joy oh purple bliss oh purple rapture!
REAL MUSIC by REAL MUSICIANS - Prince
"I kind of wish there was a reason for Prince to make the site crash more" ~~ Ben
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Reply #14 posted 07/18/16 2:17pm

selah

selah said:

I wanted to post this earlier in the correct thread, I know there are secret trusts, silent trusts etc., which are outside of probate.

Legal question for the experts: could a person just set up trusts without any actual will at all? Seeing as how Prince was so private..?



Ok found the answer:
"You may not need a will if you have made provisions so that your assets will pass without one, for example, by establishing trusts, life insurance policies with named beneficiaries, or joint property interests such as real estate or bank accounts." MN Attorney General

http://www.ag.state.mn.us...bate_1.asp

K..that's all I was curious about. ..if P went that route..then there's lots that may be kept private.
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Reply #15 posted 07/18/16 2:45pm

mailaccount63

selah said:

I wanted to post this earlier in the correct thread, I know there are secret trusts, silent trusts etc., which are outside of probate.

Could a person just set up trusts without any actual will at all? Seeing as how Prince was so private..?


This has been asked before, and this is the third time I have answered it.

Technically, yes, someone could just set up a trust for their estate. BUT (there is always a "but" in the World of Law), if ANYTHING goes wrong -OR- ANYTHING is challenged in the trust and/or how it is administered, that automatically draws it into Probate Court.

In all of the estates that I have assisted with, I have never seen an estate that had transferred everything into the trust. There is usually at least one (usually more) estate assets that has been "forgotten", which causes the necessity of a case being officially opened in probate court. Which is why if a client says that they want to do a trust, an estate planning attorney will also have them sign a will to "catch" any leftover assets, so an Executor can be appointed, etc. (Although it is true, a "Pour-Over Will" could have been done, which would automatically "pour over" any probate assets into a trust. But there is still paperwork that needs done here. Again, if there are ANY issues at all, it would be pulled back into the jurisdiction of the probate court.)

So, yes, it is possible - but I am skeptical that anyone would be able to pull it off - especially with an estate this massive and complex. Something (a document here or there) would "leak" somewhere..... OR someone would talk. In the real world, someone ALWAYS talks.

But... it is always possible. And we are talking about Prince here.

(This is not legal advice.)

RIP Prince. We will NEVER forget you. Thank you so much.

"Dearly Beloved:
We are gathered here today 2 get through this thing called: 'Life'."
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Reply #16 posted 07/18/16 2:54pm

selah

mailaccount63 said:



selah said:


I wanted to post this earlier in the correct thread, I know there are secret trusts, silent trusts etc., which are outside of probate.

Could a person just set up trusts without any actual will at all? Seeing as how Prince was so private..?




This has been asked before, and this is the third time I have answered it.

Technically, yes, someone could just set up a trust for their estate. BUT (there is always a "but" in the World of Law), if ANYTHING goes wrong -OR- ANYTHING is challenged in the trust and/or how it is administered, that automatically draws it into Probate Court.

In all of the estates that I have assisted with, I have never seen an estate that had transferred everything into the trust. There is usually at least one (usually more) estate assets that has been "forgotten", which causes the necessity of a case being officially opened in probate court. Which is why if a client says that they want to do a trust, an estate planning attorney will also have them sign a will to "catch" any leftover assets, so an Executor can be appointed, etc. (Although it is true, a "Pour-Over Will" could have been done, which would automatically "pour over" any probate assets into a trust. But there is still paperwork that needs done here. Again, if there are ANY issues at all, it would be pulled back into the jurisdiction of the probate court.)

So, yes, it is possible - but I am skeptical that anyone would be able to pull it off - especially with an estate this massive and complex. Something (a document here or there) would "leak" somewhere..... OR someone would talk. In the real world, someone ALWAYS talks.

But... it is always possible. And we are talking about Prince here.

(This is not legal advice.)



Thanks of for the details, I am new here, so I was not aware of a response.

Anything is possible, and I am not thinking that he would put the entire estate in trust..but anyway..Just curious, thank you.
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Reply #17 posted 07/18/16 2:56pm

mailaccount63

This is actually a very complicated estate. It is massive. It is complex. It is being contested - on more than one level, probably before it is over. There is real estate involved. There is more than one state involved. There is more than one country involved.

There are many, many, many variables. And, as I have said, there is always a "but" in the World of Law.

We are not seeing everything here in the filings of the Probate Court of Carver County, MN. We can follow it. It is interesting. But we will probably never know everything.

RIP Prince. We will NEVER forget you. Thank you so much.

"Dearly Beloved:
We are gathered here today 2 get through this thing called: 'Life'."
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Reply #18 posted 07/18/16 3:02pm

selah

Anyone contesting to have a chunk in this estate should probably read "Bleak House" by Dickens while they wait.. it's a long read but they'll have time..The ending..heh.
wink
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Reply #19 posted 07/18/16 3:45pm

ISaidLifeIsJus
tAGame

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mailaccount63 said:

This is actually a very complicated estate. It is massive. It is complex. It is being contested - on more than one level, probably before it is over. There is real estate involved. There is more than one state involved. There is more than one country involved.

There are many, many, many variables. And, as I have said, there is always a "but" in the World of Law.

We are not seeing everything here in the filings of the Probate Court of Carver County, MN. We can follow it. It is interesting. But we will probably never know everything.

yeahthat

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Reply #20 posted 07/18/16 3:48pm

mailaccount63

selah said:

Anyone contesting to have a chunk in this estate should probably read "Bleak House" by Dickens while they wait.. it's a long read but they'll have time..The ending..heh. wink


So... you are judging how this estate should be run...... on a book of FICTION?

RIP Prince. We will NEVER forget you. Thank you so much.

"Dearly Beloved:
We are gathered here today 2 get through this thing called: 'Life'."
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Reply #21 posted 07/18/16 4:41pm

selah

mailaccount63 said:



selah said:


Anyone contesting to have a chunk in this estate should probably read "Bleak House" by Dickens while they wait.. it's a long read but they'll have time..The ending..heh. wink


So... you are judging how this estate should be run..... on a book of FICTION?



Heh..it's not in order judge about how it should be run...it's to gain perspective about how things can turn out..Dickens studied the law before he decided to write fiction..Jarndyce v Jarndyce. .an inheritance with multiple claimants.. and can't find a will..held in probate for a long time. ..with realistic conclusion.
Anyways goodnight
cool
[Edited 7/18/16 16:50pm]
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Reply #22 posted 07/18/16 4:50pm

KRTREE

selah said:

Anyone contesting to have a chunk in this estate should probably read "Bleak House" by Dickens while they wait.. it's a long read but they'll have time..The ending..heh. wink

OMG! Thank you for reminding me of this story. Geez, you're right "Bleak House" indeed!

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Reply #23 posted 07/18/16 4:53pm

KRTREE

mailaccount63 said:

selah said:

Anyone contesting to have a chunk in this estate should probably read "Bleak House" by Dickens while they wait.. it's a long read but they'll have time..The ending..heh. wink


So... you are judging how this estate should be run...... on a book of FICTION?

Nah, you gotta know the story to get the reference... it's bleak

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Reply #24 posted 07/18/16 5:45pm

laurarichardso
n

mailaccount63 said:



selah said:


I wanted to post this earlier in the correct thread, I know there are secret trusts, silent trusts etc., which are outside of probate.

Could a person just set up trusts without any actual will at all? Seeing as how Prince was so private..?




This has been asked before, and this is the third time I have answered it.

Technically, yes, someone could just set up a trust for their estate. BUT (there is always a "but" in the World of Law), if ANYTHING goes wrong -OR- ANYTHING is challenged in the trust and/or how it is administered, that automatically draws it into Probate Court.

In all of the estates that I have assisted with, I have never seen an estate that had transferred everything into the trust. There is usually at least one (usually more) estate assets that has been "forgotten", which causes the necessity of a case being officially opened in probate court. Which is why if a client says that they want to do a trust, an estate planning attorney will also have them sign a will to "catch" any leftover assets, so an Executor can be appointed, etc. (Although it is true, a "Pour-Over Will" could have been done, which would automatically "pour over" any probate assets into a trust. But there is still paperwork that needs done here. Again, if there are ANY issues at all, it would be pulled back into the jurisdiction of the probate court.)

So, yes, it is possible - but I am skeptical that anyone would be able to pull it off - especially with an estate this massive and complex. Something (a document here or there) would "leak" somewhere..... OR someone would talk. In the real world, someone ALWAYS talks.

But... it is always possible. And we are talking about Prince here.

(This is not legal advice.)


-- I am under the impression from the request that was made from the law firm that handled his divorce that he had a trust. It may not cover everything but the firm had something that pertains to heirs and matters of probate. Anyway anything concerning heirs is going to be sealed and trust are private. We are only going to know something if someone starts talking.
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Reply #25 posted 07/18/16 6:03pm

ISaidLifeIsJus
tAGame

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laurarichardson said:

mailaccount63 said:


This has been asked before, and this is the third time I have answered it.

Technically, yes, someone could just set up a trust for their estate. BUT (there is always a "but" in the World of Law), if ANYTHING goes wrong -OR- ANYTHING is challenged in the trust and/or how it is administered, that automatically draws it into Probate Court.

In all of the estates that I have assisted with, I have never seen an estate that had transferred everything into the trust. There is usually at least one (usually more) estate assets that has been "forgotten", which causes the necessity of a case being officially opened in probate court. Which is why if a client says that they want to do a trust, an estate planning attorney will also have them sign a will to "catch" any leftover assets, so an Executor can be appointed, etc. (Although it is true, a "Pour-Over Will" could have been done, which would automatically "pour over" any probate assets into a trust. But there is still paperwork that needs done here. Again, if there are ANY issues at all, it would be pulled back into the jurisdiction of the probate court.)

So, yes, it is possible - but I am skeptical that anyone would be able to pull it off - especially with an estate this massive and complex. Something (a document here or there) would "leak" somewhere..... OR someone would talk. In the real world, someone ALWAYS talks.

But... it is always possible. And we are talking about Prince here.

(This is not legal advice.)

-- I am under the impression from the request that was made from the law firm that handled his divorce that he had a trust. It may not cover everything but the firm had something that pertains to heirs and matters of probate. Anyway anything concerning heirs is going to be sealed and trust are private. We are only going to know something if someone starts talking.

The attorneys never stated they had a trust. That was mere speculation (I'm guilty). The attorneys merely stated they had confidential information relevant to the determination of heirs and other matters.

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Reply #26 posted 07/19/16 1:40am

laurarichardso
n

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:



laurarichardson said:


mailaccount63 said:



This has been asked before, and this is the third time I have answered it.

Technically, yes, someone could just set up a trust for their estate. BUT (there is always a "but" in the World of Law), if ANYTHING goes wrong -OR- ANYTHING is challenged in the trust and/or how it is administered, that automatically draws it into Probate Court.

In all of the estates that I have assisted with, I have never seen an estate that had transferred everything into the trust. There is usually at least one (usually more) estate assets that has been "forgotten", which causes the necessity of a case being officially opened in probate court. Which is why if a client says that they want to do a trust, an estate planning attorney will also have them sign a will to "catch" any leftover assets, so an Executor can be appointed, etc. (Although it is true, a "Pour-Over Will" could have been done, which would automatically "pour over" any probate assets into a trust. But there is still paperwork that needs done here. Again, if there are ANY issues at all, it would be pulled back into the jurisdiction of the probate court.)

So, yes, it is possible - but I am skeptical that anyone would be able to pull it off - especially with an estate this massive and complex. Something (a document here or there) would "leak" somewhere..... OR someone would talk. In the real world, someone ALWAYS talks.

But... it is always possible. And we are talking about Prince here.

(This is not legal advice.)



-- I am under the impression from the request that was made from the law firm that handled his divorce that he had a trust. It may not cover everything but the firm had something that pertains to heirs and matters of probate. Anyway anything concerning heirs is going to be sealed and trust are private. We are only going to know something if someone starts talking.

The attorneys never stated they had a trust. That was mere speculation (I'm guilty). The attorneys merely stated they had confidential information relevant to the determination of heirs and other matters.


--- What do you determination of heirs would mean? This law firm handled divorces and family matters? Don't you think if he had kids he would have set aside money. How else can you do it unless it is with a trust or maybe he was in the process of working on one and it did not get executed.
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Reply #27 posted 07/19/16 2:31am

laurarichardso
n

KRTREE said:



mailaccount63 said:




selah said:


Anyone contesting to have a chunk in this estate should probably read "Bleak House" by Dickens while they wait.. it's a long read but they'll have time..The ending..heh. wink


So... you are judging how this estate should be run..... on a book of FICTION?



Nah, you gotta know the story to get the reference... it's bleak


--- Is it bleek a lot of these claims are bogus. If he had 1000 kids and siblings maybe but he does not just a matter of time before they go away.
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Reply #28 posted 07/19/16 10:23am

Eileen

reply to sub

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Reply #29 posted 07/19/16 11:48am

Mumio

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I've seen several people stating "reply to subscribe" on different threads so I'm asking: am I the only person who has a "subscribe/end subscription" button at the top of each thread? I get notifications via email if there are new comments. Are people doing it this other way because they don't want email notifications?

[Edited 7/19/16 16:59pm]

Welcome to "the org", Mumio…they can have you, but I'll have your love in the end nod
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