Dude..he's dead...let it go. Have you ever acknowledged the good he has done....there's a tonne of factual stuff out there for you to quote & praise. He grew wiser, kinder & far more giving in his latter years...lets celebrate that. Name me 1 person who wasn't a total dick in their younger days..christ the stuff out there on Madonna is bloody scary..we're all guilty of it..but at least he changed.

BartVanHemelen said:

SunnyGirl8 said:

This follows on from the point I made earlier re books that are speculating about who songs are about/attributed to and Prince's personal life/relationships/muses/motivations/drivers etc and whether they're accurate. (As opposed to books that refer to factual/technical things to do with recording, touring, sales etc).

.

Many of you may already be aware of this. I posted a thread today "Genius in Short" which links to an article that appeared in The Guardian on 19 Feb 2006 by Barney Hoskyns, where he quotes Prince's stance in the early-mid 1990's re people he worked with speculating about his music - who his songs are about, what his source of inspiration was etc.

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"A decade later when I met him again in a hotel suite in London, it was more Mona Lisa than Cheshire Cat - coolly supercilious, ultimately indecipherable. Then, he took me to task for things other people had told me about him, hooting uproariously at the notion that any of them was in a position to talk about him. The fact that one, engineer Susan Rogers, had sat by his side on hundreds of occasions at his Paisley Park studio carried little weight with him.

.

'You think Susan Rogers knows me?' he asked. 'You think she knows anything about my music? Susan Rogers, for the record, doesn't know anything about my music. Not one thing. The only person who knows anything about my music [pause for very pointed effect]... is me .' "

.

This creates a problem for any book that's quoting Susan Rogers or any other colleague, as they need to be interpreted with caution depending on what's being discussed. eg. the story around the song Wally

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Except Rogers has proven to be a fount of excellent information, while Prince is a proven liar who has often re-written his own history to fit whatever was important to him right now.

Because controversy sells?

MrSquiggle said:

I'm yet to find a book on Prince that feels like it was written by someone who appreciates his work. Matt Thorne, Ronin Ro and Per Nielsen's books all are constantly critical of him to the point where I found myself wondering, why would you even bother writing a book about someone you have this much hostility towards? Ronin Ro's one is particularly bad. Parade through Lovesexy is portrayed as one disappointing flop after another. Really???

I thought I would Like Toure's book too. It started off well and then somewhere in there it (IMO) took a kind of negative turn. I think Toure harbored some bad feelings about how he was treated during an interview and those feelings were reflected in his book (I Would Die 4 U)

I just read the Thorne book, and I appreciated the amount of insight into the last 25 years of his work (1991 on), which I hadn't read as much about. But it was highly subjective. Few journalists would insert themselves into the narrative with that much "I." And also treating his personal opinions about the quality of certain albums as fact. It's more like a huge essay.

I respect his opinions. But he contradicts himself a lot. For instance, he says that "Schoolyard" was the most "highly regarded" song left off D&P like it was a mistake, then immediately says it was best it was deleted. There are numerous examples of these contradictory opinions. Saying "Sexual Suicide" is a throwaway in one chapter, then later referring to it as one of the only worthwhile songs on "Crystal Ball." Like made up your mind, dude.

[Edited 7/8/16 13:21pm]

PURPLEIZED3121 said:

Dude..he's dead...let it go. Have you ever acknowledged the good he has done....there's a tonne of factual stuff out there for you to quote & praise. He grew wiser, kinder & far more giving in his latter years...lets celebrate that. Name me 1 person who wasn't a total dick in their younger days..christ the stuff out there on Madonna is bloody scary..we're all guilty of it..but at least he changed.

BartVanHemelen said:

.

Except Rogers has proven to be a fount of excellent information, while Prince is a proven liar who has often re-written his own history to fit whatever was important to him right now.

.

Oh please, don't pretend Prince wasn't a massive dick in the last couple of years. His holier-than-thou attitude hadn't changed, forcing bibles upon people and sending out the 3rdEyeGirls to do interviews which featured plenty of slutshaming.

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Also, Prince badmouthing Rogers wasn't something from his "younger days", that was from 2006, when Prince was 48 and deep into JW.

we've all got things to be ashamed of, all of us. I can only say what i've said several times since his death, the guy who did the things he did in the 80's and the guy who gave out checks to people aren't quite the same person. I was so proud when I read of his evolution, which is what it was. So proud of him, maybe as proud as I was of any of his performances.

luvgirl said:

I get what everyone is saying about the movie GB, but I like it. It's no "Purple Rain" but I just look at it as one big music video. Plus I love his look and outfits in it. That's one of the reasons I still watch it. I love seeing him dancing in those skin tight speedos, lol. It's sort of like the black skin tight pants in the Parade look. I thought we liked that! To each it's own I guess. The acting though is another thing... I just stared reading, "Prince: A Pop Life." I heard it has great photos so I'm looking forward to reading it. I don't mind if the author is unbiasedly critical as long as his hatred for Prince isn't jumping off the pages poking you in the eyes... [Edited 7/8/16 15:46pm]

I miss him so seeing him speak in any form is good, that plus the character is infinitely more likeable than the guy he played in Cherry Moon.

BartVanHemelen said:

PURPLEIZED3121 said:

Dude..he's dead...let it go. Have you ever acknowledged the good he has done....there's a tonne of factual stuff out there for you to quote & praise. He grew wiser, kinder & far more giving in his latter years...lets celebrate that. Name me 1 person who wasn't a total dick in their younger days..christ the stuff out there on Madonna is bloody scary..we're all guilty of it..but at least he changed.

.

Oh please, don't pretend Prince wasn't a massive dick in the last couple of years. His holier-than-thou attitude hadn't changed, forcing bibles upon people and sending out the 3rdEyeGirls to do interviews which featured plenty of slutshaming.

.

Also, Prince badmouthing Rogers wasn't something from his "younger days", that was from 2006, when Prince was 48 and deep into JW.

As stated in previous posts:

.

1. Barney Hoskyns quoted Prince's stance from the early-mid 1990's re the people he worked with, namely, Susan Rogers, speculating about his music (who his songs were about, what his source of inspiration was etc.) in an article he ran in The Guardian on 19 Feb 2006. Prince said, "'You think Susan Rogers knows me?' he asked. 'You think she knows anything about my music? Susan Rogers, for the record, doesn't know anything about my music. Not one thing. The only person who knows anything about my music [pause for very pointed effect]... is me.' "

.

2. In her Housequake interview in 2006, Susan Rogers agreed with Prince's statement. She said "Yes, Prince is correct on this...Only he knows what inspired a song or he wanted his music to say...As for knowing him as a person, I have said for the record that I am only qualified to speak on his studio life from 1983 to 1988. His life beyond the studio doors, outside of that time period, is not known to me. Since, he has had a rich life I don't entirely know him."

.

And really, what artist wants someone they've worked with creating a defining narrative of who and what their songs are about and their personal life, when they're intentionally trying to NOT label their art and keep it a mystery? It's a total breach of the relationship, particularly, when the books keep regurgitating the same false narrative, he can't get his fans to forget what she said and no one believes him. She's lucky she has any career in the industry at all after doing that.

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[Edited 7/9/16 1:48am]

BartVanHemelen said:

PURPLEIZED3121 said:

Dude..he's dead...let it go. Have you ever acknowledged the good he has done....there's a tonne of factual stuff out there for you to quote & praise. He grew wiser, kinder & far more giving in his latter years...lets celebrate that. Name me 1 person who wasn't a total dick in their younger days..christ the stuff out there on Madonna is bloody scary..we're all guilty of it..but at least he changed.

.

Oh please, don't pretend Prince wasn't a massive dick in the last couple of years. His holier-than-thou attitude hadn't changed, forcing bibles upon people and sending out the 3rdEyeGirls to do interviews which featured plenty of slutshaming.

.

Also, Prince badmouthing Rogers wasn't something from his "younger days", that was from 2006, when Prince was 48 and deep into JW.

If Prince was such a horrible person why do you follow him? I am wondering if Sonic Youth, Nirvana, Public Enemy, and dEUs are so perfect and have no faults?

BartVanHemelen said:

Genesia said:

Because controversy sells?

Exactly - money talks and bullshit walks. People will not buy a Prince book if it's all complimentary and includes no saliacious rumours, angry ex employees or some craziness in it. The human condition is that we are all innately curious, even as individuals perceived as "Supermen".

.

Like Ice T said "Money controls the world and thats it, and once you got it, then you can talk shit - POWER!"

Adorecream said:

Genesia said:

Because controversy sells?

Exactly - money talks and bullshit walks. People will not buy a Prince book if it's all complimentary and includes no saliacious rumours, angry ex employees or some craziness in it. The human condition is that we are all innately curious, even as individuals perceived as "Supermen".

.

Like Ice T said "Money controls the world and thats it, and once you got it, then you can talk shit - POWER!"

Also some of these figures of album sales seem high. I always thought the sales of Purple Rain were 13 million in the USA and about 5 million worldwide and Diamonds and Pearls sold less than 3 million in the USA and about 2 million worldwide. The figures for sales are all over the place. I have heard numbers from like 33 million to 150 million for Thriller alone, where is a site showing accurate figures?

paulludvig said:

BartVanHemelen said:

.

Except Rogers has proven to be a fount of excellent information, while Prince is a proven liar who has often re-written his own history to fit whatever was important to him right now.

How so? Have SR's stories been corroborated?

Have Prince's?

Adorecream said:

Adorecream said:

Exactly - money talks and bullshit walks. People will not buy a Prince book if it's all complimentary and includes no saliacious rumours, angry ex employees or some craziness in it. The human condition is that we are all innately curious, even as individuals perceived as "Supermen".

.

Like Ice T said "Money controls the world and thats it, and once you got it, then you can talk shit - POWER!"

Also some of these figures of album sales seem high. I always thought the sales of Purple Rain were 13 million in the USA and about 5 million worldwide and Diamonds and Pearls sold less than 3 million in the USA and about 2 million worldwide. The figures for sales are all over the place. I have heard numbers from like 33 million to 150 million for Thriller alone, where is a site showing accurate figures?

RIAA certification hasn't been updated for PURPLE RAIN since 1996, which stands at 13 million. I am sure has surpassed 13 million in the U.S. by now since 1996.

The estimated sales of PURPLE RAIN world wide total are 25 million.

Diamonds and Pearls was certified selling over 2 million in the U.S. alone. With a world wide total of 6.7 million.

The Very Best of Prince is the best selling Prince album since his death and has surpassed the 2x platinum mark in the U.S. alone.

rob1965 said:

kewlschool said:

imago said:

kewlschool said:

The lady villagers are coming for you with pitchforks, torches, and a wooden stake for coming after their Prince and his Graffiti Bridge hair do. Sh*t just got real.

OK, the Graffiti Bridge hair looked pretty good in a Jacklyn Smith launches her new line at K-mart kind of way. But, still..

It's the Rachel before their was a Rachel hair do.

Thank you for planting this image in my head to never make it go away again....

djThunderfunk said:

BartVanHemelen said:

MrSquiggle said:

I'm yet to find a book on Prince that feels like it was written by someone who appreciates his work. Matt Thorne, Ronin Ro and Per Nielsen's books all are constantly critical of him to the point where I found myself wondering, why would you even bother writing a book about someone you have this much hostility towards? Ronin Ro's one is particularly bad. Parade through Lovesexy is portrayed as one disappointing flop after another. Really???

I have yet to read a book on P. I do wanna read "Let's Go Crazy" though, whenever I find the time.