Cloreen said:

1725topp said:

.

yeah, from the first song to the last, I loved it immediately. But, again, you find it impossible to believe that.

.

Yes, that's right, I don't believe you. Here's why:

.

You say you loved it immediately. That's impossible. A serious work of art can not be loved instantly. It is not a piece of candy. It is not a Three Musketeers bar. If you say you loved "Rainbow Children" instantly what you are really saying is that you were attracted to the boldness, the new direction that Prince took. That whetted your appetite. Then upon further listenings you grew to love it.

.

Once again, a work of art takes time to truly savour and appreciate. A Tootsie Roll does not. Unwrap, put it in your mouth and instant gratification. Art is not like that. And great art is even further from that.

.

You didn't love it on first listen. You were intrigued by it on first listen.

Hey Cloreen, stop with the dumb dogma, lots of people liked TRC right away I was there to witness it.

Cloreen said:

1725topp said:

.

yeah, from the first song to the last, I loved it immediately. But, again, you find it impossible to believe that.

.

Yes, that's right, I don't believe you. Here's why:

.

You say you loved it immediately. That's impossible. A serious work of art can not be loved instantly. It is not a piece of candy. It is not a Three Musketeers bar. If you say you loved "Rainbow Children" instantly what you are really saying is that you were attracted to the boldness, the new direction that Prince took. That whetted your appetite. Then upon further listenings you grew to love it.

.

Once again, a work of art takes time to truly savour and appreciate. A Tootsie Roll does not. Unwrap, put it in your mouth and instant gratification. Art is not like that. And great art is even further from that.

.

You didn't love it on first listen. You were intrigued by it on first listen.

I can agree with 1725topp's appreciation of the album as stated. And for me, I loved the music at the initial listen--it was unquestionably unwrapped like a Klondike Bar and flowed past the tastebuds inducing joy. Sometimes when you hear something it just vibes with an instant gratification where the vibrations are aligned just right. I was intrigued by the lyrics, however--the mystical tones were perhaps Prince describing some kind of figurative environment? It seemed to me a parable describing his spiritualism, or an allegory to his struggles with the music industry and the public media in general and a model for society. Last December's force of music plus idyllic world-peace lyrics are pretty heavy. I didn't know anything about the Jehova's Witness connection to it all back then, but the whole of it had a real emotional impact on me will that was and remains difficult to describe. I understand how some of his statments therein stir controversy, particularly regarding women's relationship between the sexes and a particular religion; I can't say whether those quite fit with my worldview, but then we can't always align our personal philosophy with that of our musical heroes.

>

The Rainbow Children was instantly enjoyable musically, however, plus emotional and controversial IMHO.

1725topp said:

Cloreen said:

.

There's another thread here discussing "Rainbow Children," but that one has both positive and negative responses. I want this one to be for the fans who do enjoy the album...but I only want the responses to be in regards to this one specific question:

.

How exactly did you come to enjoy the album?

.

By that I mean, let's be real, that album first time played was a "Huh?" moment. I will find it impossible to believe that any fan loved it instantly. So my question is what was the breaking point? What did you see in the album, hear in the album that got you hooked?

.

My answer is the song "1+1+1=3." I was thrown by that album upon first listenings. But I noted one tune was very good -- "1+1+1=3." So I would cue up that song and many times I would let the rest of the album play out. So I got to listening to much of the album because of "1+1." That song was the breakthrough I needed to get into "Rainbow Children."

.

How exactly did you come to enjoy this very non-traditional Prince album?

*

I'm not trying to be adversarial, but what I've bolded in your question is the number one problem with Prince.org. (Undercurrent racism is the next issue, but I'll leave that issue for another thread.) The fact that you "find it impossible to believe that any fan loved it instantly" means that you are so subjective in your own tastes that you can't imagine that anyone would like something that you don't or didn't immediately like. However, as a Prince fan since 1980 (I liked the first two albums, but Dirty Mind hooked me.), The Rainbow Children is everything I love about Prince: his eff the world attitude, its raw funky, rocking, soulful music mixed into a sound that is ultimate Prince, and lyrics that show him continuing to search for his own truth even if no one wants to follow. So, obviously, my response can't count because, again, I loved it from the moment I first heard it. I'll also add that, since I perceive a song like "Race" as enjoyable but historically and culturally myopic, it was also nice to see Prince engage racism by addressing issues specific to the plight of African Americans. As such, the music and the lyrics seem to be perfectly Prince, especially since it's my contention that, since Prince had always been working within the Judeo-Christian framework, TRC merely continues that walk or journey down that path. There was nothing about TRC that contradicted what I already loved about Prince. In fact, the evolving music, colorful imagery of the lyrics, and contemplative subject matter merely affirmed that Prince was still at the top of his game. The album has classically emotive soulful grooves and heavy-handed funk jams with guitar playing that ranges from gritty chicken grease to straight rock. How could I not love it? My first thought when hearing it was "The dude that created Dirty Mind still has his mojo working." Once, again, Prince was acting as a prism for all that I love from Marvin Gaye to Smokey Robinson to James Brown to Jimi Hendrix to Led Zeppelin. TRC has all of these sounds. So, yeah, from the first song to the last, I loved it immediately. But, again, you find it impossible to believe that so I guess that my response may not fit this thread.

beautifully put, and could not agree more.

paulludvig said:

"Huh?" moments was what I was looking for with Prince.

Cloreen said:

1725topp said:

.

yeah, from the first song to the last, I loved it immediately. But, again, you find it impossible to believe that.

.

Yes, that's right, I don't believe you. Here's why:

.

You say you loved it immediately. That's impossible. A serious work of art can not be loved instantly. It is not a piece of candy. It is not a Three Musketeers bar. If you say you loved "Rainbow Children" instantly what you are really saying is that you were attracted to the boldness, the new direction that Prince took. That whetted your appetite. Then upon further listenings you grew to love it.

.

Once again, a work of art takes time to truly savour and appreciate. A Tootsie Roll does not. Unwrap, put it in your mouth and instant gratification. Art is not like that. And great art is even further from that.

.

You didn't love it on first listen. You were intrigued by it on first listen.

Says you. I say that's a bunch of hooey.

I loved 1999 first listen. LOOOVED IT!! Same with Funkadelic's first album. Same with first time I saw Star Wars back in '77. Loved it instantly.

Rainbow Children I liked alot instantly, for all the reasons others have mentioned. There were for sure several tracks on it that were love at first sig... sound.

Cloreen said:

.

There's another thread here discussing "Rainbow Children," but that one has both positive and negative responses. I want this one to be for the fans who do enjoy the album...but I only want the responses to be in regards to this one specific question:

.

How exactly did you come to enjoy the album?

.

By that I mean, let's be real, that album first time played was a "Huh?" moment. I will find it impossible to believe that any fan loved it instantly. So my question is what was the breaking point? What did you see in the album, hear in the album that got you hooked?

.

My answer is the song "1+1+1=3." I was thrown by that album upon first listenings. But I noted one tune was very good -- "1+1+1=3." So I would cue up that song and many times I would let the rest of the album play out. So I got to listening to much of the album because of "1+1." That song was the breakthrough I needed to get into "Rainbow Children."

.

How exactly did you come to enjoy this very non-traditional Prince album?

Track one might not be instantly accessible but tracks 2-9 are. Once you get through Wedding Feast the album picks up again and draws from his live shows. The choice to narrate over some songs was... unfortunate.

Personally, The Work Pt1, 1+1+1=3, Everlasting now, Digital Garden, Everywhere & Last December got me pretty much right away. They're catchy and memorable.

It's not alien to fans... The live band sound, the lengthy songs, or the god talk for that matter.

I loved the Digital Garden and the intro of Family Name in Ahdio file. The first time I listened the full album I loved it. Family Name was the song I thought "wow, this is great". I was not on love with some things here and there, the chorus in Last December or the ending of She Loves 4 Me, but overall it is a great album.

Cloreen said:

1725topp said:

.

yeah, from the first song to the last, I loved it immediately. But, again, you find it impossible to believe that.

.

Yes, that's right, I don't believe you. Here's why:

.

You say you loved it immediately. That's impossible. A serious work of art can not be loved instantly. It is not a piece of candy. It is not a Three Musketeers bar. If you say you loved "Rainbow Children" instantly what you are really saying is that you were attracted to the boldness, the new direction that Prince took. That whetted your appetite. Then upon further listenings you grew to love it.

.

Once again, a work of art takes time to truly savour and appreciate. A Tootsie Roll does not. Unwrap, put it in your mouth and instant gratification. Art is not like that. And great art is even further from that.

.

You didn't love it on first listen. You were intrigued by it on first listen.

*

I'm going to assume that both you and I make our living with words. As such, we both know the difference between "loved" and "intrigued." I immediately "loved" The Rainbow Children because it pleased my aesthetic musical tastes, my lyrical desire for creative imagery, and my socio-political sensibility. There was nothing about it that I didn't understand, there was nothing about it that contradicted anything I understood about Prince or about what music could be, and I enjoyed every aspect of it. Therefore, by definition of both words, it did more than "intrigued" me; I "loved" it at first listen. To this notion, I'll add that there are many great works of art that I loved from my first experience with them: James Baldwin's Go Tell It on the Mountain, Joyce's Portrait of the Artist, Richard Wright's Native Son, Toni Morrison's The Bluest Eye, Alice Walker's Temple of My Familiar, Faulkner's The Sound and The Fury, Margaret Walker Alexander's Jubilee, Shakespeare's Othello, Marvin Gaye's Here, My Dear, Stevie Wonder's Secret Life of Plants, Songs in the Key of Life, and Innervision, Sophocles' Oedipus Rex and Antigone (Oedipus at Colonus is not as well-crafted as OR and Antigone), Miles Davis' Bitches Brew, Dali's Persistence of Memory, Van Gogh's Starry Night, Tansey's Triumph over Mastery, Veronese' The Wedding at Cana (because of the manner in which it foreshadows the last supper while presenting Jesus as a socio-political figure), Jacob Lawrence's The Family, The Builders, and many more. Yet, more amazing to me, I can't believe that you have the "whatever" to tell people how they felt about a work of art. That level of arrogance is just mind-blowing, especially given the fact that others can define the terms that they use as well as you. Have there been works of art that I needed to have explained to me to understand them and then like or love them? Yes, such as Franz Kafka's The Metamorphosis, Samuel Beckett's Waiting for Godot, or Hemingway's "Hills Like White Elephants." Also, there have been works of art for which I've developed respect by being properly educated about them, but I still don't love them. I respect the hell out of Fela Kuti's musicianship and Civil Rights activism, but I can't seem to love his art as much as I love James Brown, Parliament/Funkadelic, and Gil Scott-Heron, even though Kuti is working in the same basic aesthetic as they are. Given all of this, I certainly know the difference between the terms, "intrigued" and "loved," and I know that I immediately "loved" The Rainbow Children.

1725topp said:

.

I certainly know the difference between the terms, "intrigued" and "loved," and I know that I immediately "loved" The Rainbow Children.

.

I can appreciate your words above. Well stated. However, that does not mean that I believe them. I don't.

.

Once again I will point out that you did not love "Rainbow Children" upon first listen. Nor did you love OTHELLO, "Innervisions," ANTIGONE, "Starry Night"... I will use the word again, you were intrigued by them. Want a synonym? You were attracted to the works in question.

.

And if you feel that I am insulting you in anyway, then good because you, sir, are insulting Mr. Shakespeare, Mr. Wonder, Sophocles, Van Gogh, and all the other artists you mentioned above including Prince. You are insulting their masterworks by smugly declaring, "I got it right from the start. Loved it right away." You honestly think Richard Wright wanted people to instantaneously get his work in the way someone instantaneously gets an episode of "Friends"? How would you feel if you labor to put together a masterpiece and someone on the street walks up to you and smugly says, "Ah, I got everything you were saying in one reading. Loved it from the start." That is insulting, my friend. What you are saying is those artists' works are no better than an Aquaman comic book.

.

Look, you did not, could not love "Rainbow Children" or any of the other works you mentioned above upon first encounter. Those works were designed to be, get this, discovered. To say you loved them instantly is highly insulting to the artists who created them.

Cloreen said:

Aerogram said:

.

TRC is not the equivalent of a James Joyce novel, it is very well executed record with elements of funk, soul, jazz and rock.

.

It is Prince's most complex work, no? To claim, "I got it all and loved it on first listen" is rather insulting to Prince, no?

(Also insulting to the rest of us. "You peons took time to get that album? I embraced it right away.")

Cloreen said:

morningsong said:

The first time I heard it wasn't a "huh" moment at all.

I was really happy to hear he had made a record like it after NPS and Rave. I had been listening jazz fusion for years before the album came out anyway, so it wasn't like I didn't know what type of stuff he was referencing. As soon as I heard the Miles / Weather Report / Santana influences on the first few tracks I was hooked. I was particularly impressed by the title track on the first listening.

I didn't really like "Last December" on the first couple of spins and felt it was out of place. But, the chorus is just so damn catchy, and the jazz rock parts are pretty impressive, so I've warmed to it over the years.

Replica said:

morningsong said:

I was intrigued by it listening to what others had to say about it whilst I was spending 4 days trying to download it from the NPGMC. I was intrigued by it when I heard the title song on one of the Ahdio downloads. When I finally heard it I loved it. After several years of bland releases, it was finally that killer album I knew was in him. Loved it. Today the love has turned into respect and admiration. Unfortunately for TRC, there is one issue with it which, over time, gets a bit annoying and that is the Darth Vader voice. Its not the message, I can let that fly over my head, its just the over use of it and the monotony... Like the segues in Exodus and TGE, at first they are fine but over time their novelty wears off and I just want to listen to the music that is stuffed inbetween them. TRC does make the top 10 however and probably top 3 post millenium releases.

Rebeljuice said:

I was intrigued by it listening to what others had to say about it whilst I was spending 4 days trying to download it from the NPGMC. I was intrigued by it when I heard the title song on one of the Ahdio downloads. When I finally heard it I loved it. After several years of bland releases, it was finally that killer album I knew was in him. Loved it. Today the love has turned into respect and admiration. Unfortunately for TRC, there is one issue with it which, over time, gets a bit annoying and that is the Darth Vader voice. Its not the message, I can let that fly over my head, its just the over use of it and the monotony... Like the segues in Exodus and TGE, at first they are fine but over time their novelty wears off and I just want to listen to the music that is stuffed inbetween them. TRC does make the top 10 however and probably top 3 post millenium releases.

Yeah I must admit, if it wasn't for that, it would have ranked even higher in my favs list.

Cloreen said:

1725topp said:

.

I can appreciate your words above. Well stated. However, that does not mean that I believe them. I don't.

.

Once again I will point out that you did not love "Rainbow Children" upon first listen. Nor did you love OTHELLO, "Innervisions," ANTIGONE, "Starry Night"... I will use the word again, you were intrigued by them. Want a synonym? You were attracted to the works in question.

.

And if you feel that I am insulting you in anyway, then good because you, sir, are insulting Mr. Shakespeare, Mr. Wonder, Sophocles, Van Gogh, and all the other artists you mentioned above including Prince. You are insulting their masterworks by smugly declaring, "I got it right from the start. Loved it right away." You honestly think Richard Wright wanted people to instantaneously get his work in the way someone instantaneously gets an episode of "Friends"? How would you feel if you labor to put together a masterpiece and someone on the street walks up to you and smugly says, "Ah, I got everything you were saying in one reading. Loved it from the start." That is insulting, my friend. What you are saying is those artists' works are no better than an Aquaman comic book.

.

Look, you did not, could not love "Rainbow Children" or any of the other works you mentioned above upon first encounter. Those works were designed to be, get this, discovered. To say you loved them instantly is highly insulting to the artists who created them.

The lyricist/musician's objective is to captivate the audience by some clever expression or executed form of composition. (S)he wishes to mezmerize and dazzle the throngs with their intellectual cunning and genius subtlety to make them think well and work to decipher whatever obscure part of their presentation lays somewhere beneath the thin surface reflection to offer them some greater reward of enhanced understanding achieved after churning over some phrase or point of composition? Sure, some will acheive a gradual appreciation of a work only after repeated studied listening, learning of buried meanings after repeated exposure.

>

I wonder what Prince was getting at with his commentary on the Holocaust--was it meant as a stark comparison of a Jewish tragedy to the chattal system of the Americas? If so, then why put that there? Another lyric reveals "displaced bloodlines" being sold to an owner who'd mate them with white jailbait. Huh? Nobody really wanted that arrangement back then, did they? Jailbait? Did he wish that word placement to signify owners would favorably pair whites with slaves yet punish the displaced were they themselves to independently pursue such a union? Those who've studied United States history in detail will know that such arrangements did occur (more frequently than many would care to admit), but the converse much less so and was punishable by imprisonment and/or disfigurement of both the slave and the "jailbait," or death to the "displaced" if forcibly engaged by one. That is my interpretation of the lyric; I don't claim intellectual brilliance or a Ph.d. in American history. I could be wrong in my interpretation of "white jailbait," since this is an artistic statement we're talking about and not some history lesson. So I've been intrigued by the lyrical content. My enjoyment of the music was pretty much complete on initial exposure, although I'll admit that it was more appreciated on later listenings, as the ear can only pick out so many details at once.

>

Those as well versed in form and format as the artist or superiorly studied in the subjects and forms arranged in an artist's work can certainly understand as well as the artist what is expressed, and appreciate the fine quality of craftwork. This is no insult to the artist, who can only appreicate the viewer's understanding of the expression. An instananeous understanding by a studied audience toward The Rainbow Children is indeed possible , especially by one aware and sympathetic to the artist's forms of expression. This occurance cannot be insulting, but rewarding for the artist to know. Perhaps you could be feeling put off by somebody's hint at being quicker than you in understanding this piece of work? It happens sometimes! I don't belive that the album subject is so deep that a fully-formed realization cannot happen quickly by an astute well-studied observer. Most of Prince's ideas presented here are actually quite blunt statements, with an occasional enigmatic phrasing, like his mention of Jewish history is for me.

Cloreen said:

Aerogram said:

Aerogram said:

Cloreen said:

.

It is Prince's most complex work, no? To claim, "I got it all and loved it on first listen" is rather insulting to Prince, no?

(Also insulting to the rest of us. "You peons took time to get that album? I embraced it right away.")

NO, it's not. This wasn't my first time listening to this kind of music or to a work with religious references, let alone my first time with more complex and challenging work from any artist, be it musical or literary. Now if you want to say I didn't get James Joyce when I first read him at 15, go ahead, but TRC is not so incredibly original and I had been following Pronce for decades, been exposed to stuff like the long intro to One song, in addition to having a mother who takes theology classes for fun in top of teaching Marcel Proust. Why does your experience has to be the standard? There's all kinds of folks.

It's not very often you see his name on here, you just made me feel at home all of a sudden.

In a sense this isn't an answer to your question, because as far as I can recall I did love it from the first listen, from the first track onwards. And I still do love that first track, even though the Darth Vader voice makes me cringe; even geniuses need someone to tell them - sometimes - no, that doesn't work, cut that.

But what still puzzles me is how I heard about it and why I bought it. My interest in P was on the back burner at that time, but somehow or somewhere I read something and I went out and bought this album on the strength of it, even though I have no memory whatsoever of what that was.

Loved it from the first few notes.

Brilliant musicianship and an interesting if offensive and debatable message - but at least something to get your teeth into.

A truly great piece of art.

Along with Lovesexy and the Symbol album symbol album, I remember saying 'huh' but falling in love with it on first listen. The Vader voice was a bit annoying, but I accept it as part of the album now.

On a personal level, it became a power symbol when I was trying to move overseas and restart life.

I think TRC definitely marks Prince's shift towards a more abstract and instrumental jazzy phase, and even though that influence had always kind of been present in his music before, TRC is when his music started to show purer and more direct influences from jazz and jazz / soul fusion artists... Billy Cobham, Gill Scott-Heron and Gary Bartz come to mind... Something he carried on throughout his aftershows/after parties back in 2007, which he often dedicated to "real music lovers". I think how you first perceived this album, as aerogram has already said, depends on your musical taste or cultural background, but although it is not totally impossible to access (and yes, that voice may hinder this process), it might take more time if you have never listened to stuff like say, Herbie Hancock, Marcus Miller or Stanley Clarke before. I think this album is a great introduction to that kind of music for all those who like to keep an open mind.

"Just like the sun, the rainbow children rise" Love it.

[Edited 6/20/16 4:22am]

Never understood the hate for the so-called 'Darth Vader voice' narrator on this album. I've always dug it and found it in turns funky, amusing and helpful in trying to understand the 'narrative'.

Surely y'all must've heard George Clinton use a very similar funky electronic pitch-shifting effect on his voice over a ton of 70's Funkaladelic albums . Prince also used it on The Exodus has Begun.

I also associate the voice with Prince doing it live on the ONA tour and him at times trying not to laugh in so doing, which goes to show he had his tongue in his cheek all the time .

[Edited 6/20/16 4:58am]

Loved it the first time I listened to it.

Miles said: