GirlBrother said:

PeteSilas said:

paulludvig said:

I've been watching old photos and video clips of John L. Nelson and something about him strikes me as a bit off, like he perhaps had some mental problems. Anyone else get the same impression?

Not particularly, he was a pretty uptight guy though, not all in a bad way either. I remember him saying that women were a distraction, he said they were for him and for Prince. so there were probably some weird Madonna/Whore issues going on who knows. women are a huge distraction, he's correct about that, but with that attitude i could see some extreme discipline being meted out, like we heard. I don't think he holds a fucking candle to Joe Jackson though.

On the MTV show of the premier of UTCM John L. Nelson bragged about playing in strip bars, and he had children with multiple women, so I don't think he was uptight. He just strikes me as a bit odd.

[Edited 6/11/16 14:43pm]

rightbluecheek said:

GirlBrother said:

rightbluecheek said:

This makes a lot of sense. I never thought about it that way. You might be very right.

Hullo again, by the way. Xx

paulludvig said:

PeteSilas said:

Not particularly, he was a pretty uptight guy though, not all in a bad way either. I remember him saying that women were a distraction, he said they were for him and for Prince. so there were probably some weird Madonna/Whore issues going on who knows. women are a huge distraction, he's correct about that, but with that attitude i could see some extreme discipline being meted out, like we heard. I don't think he holds a fucking candle to Joe Jackson though.

On the MTV show of the premier of UTCM John L. Nelson bragged about playing in strip bars, and he had children with multiple women, so I don't think he was uptight. He just strikes me as a bit odd.

[Edited 6/11/16 14:43pm]

Prince picked up some old time, quaker like conservatism from somewhere. His dad's speaking on women as something to be avoided along with kicking his son out for being with a girl hints at some kind of repressed or overt conservatism. I mean, I agree that women are a distraction, but I'd say human beings are a distraction for an artist, not just women. If he didn't respect women or looked at them as a source of sin or whatever, it would not be unusual in his time and place. I always did wonder where Prince got his conservative streak from, here's a guy who wrote darling nikki and then said Tipper Gore was right in wanting his albums stickered. Lots of people like that, just a walking contradiction.

Welcome to America! Where you need to be a certain age to own a gun, drive a car, vote, join the military, etc -- but you don't need to take a test before having kids.

So many broken families. It's so wrong, but it's nothing new. And the sucky thing about it, is that it is a pattern.

Mother is beat by her father. Father is beat by his father. Father and mother get married, beat their son. Son is taken out of the home at 12 years old due to the abuse and never returns. Daughter grows up, marries and divorces two men that abuse her. Continues to date men that abuse her. She has a kid. Guess how that kid is going to grow up. It's in the genes. Best thing that kid can do is not have kids of his own. Not date. Retroactively never be born.

suomynona said:

Welcome to America! Where you need to be a certain age to own a gun, drive a car, vote, join the military, etc -- but you don't need to take a test before having kids.

So many broken families. It's so wrong, but it's nothing new. And the sucky thing about it, is that it is a pattern.

Mother is beat by her father. Father is beat by his father. Father and mother get married, beat their son. Son is taken out of the home at 12 years old due to the abuse and never returns. Daughter grows up, marries and divorces two men that abuse her. Continues to date men that abuse her. She has a kid. Guess how that kid is going to grow up. It's in the genes. Best thing that kid can do is not have kids of his own. Not date. Retroactively never be born.

your last scenario fits me to a t. but life is good my friend, even though my heroes are going on me.

PeteSilas said:

suomynona said:

Welcome to America! Where you need to be a certain age to own a gun, drive a car, vote, join the military, etc -- but you don't need to take a test before having kids.

So many broken families. It's so wrong, but it's nothing new. And the sucky thing about it, is that it is a pattern.

Mother is beat by her father. Father is beat by his father. Father and mother get married, beat their son. Son is taken out of the home at 12 years old due to the abuse and never returns. Daughter grows up, marries and divorces two men that abuse her. Continues to date men that abuse her. She has a kid. Guess how that kid is going to grow up. It's in the genes. Best thing that kid can do is not have kids of his own. Not date. Retroactively never be born.

your last scenario fits me to a t. but life is good my friend, even though my heroes are going on me.

Must be something about the great ol' pacific northwest.

suomynona said:

PeteSilas said:

your last scenario fits me to a t. but life is good my friend, even though my heroes are going on me.

Must be something about the great ol' pacific northwest.

haha, could be, they do say people are weird here, they call it 'the seattle freeze' and it's true, it's much harder to meet people here, women are not very friendly and fearful in contrast to other places. I really don't know how anyone meets anyone other than just wasting a lot of time dealing with relationships.

PeteSilas said:

suomynona said:

Must be something about the great ol' pacific northwest.

haha, could be, they do say people are weird here, they call it 'the seattle freeze' and it's true, it's much harder to meet people here, women are not very friendly and fearful in contrast to other places. I really don't know how anyone meets anyone other than just wasting a lot of time dealing with relationships.

Pretty sure they meet through tindr and grindr.

suomynona said:

PeteSilas said:

haha, could be, they do say people are weird here, they call it 'the seattle freeze' and it's true, it's much harder to meet people here, women are not very friendly and fearful in contrast to other places. I really don't know how anyone meets anyone other than just wasting a lot of time dealing with relationships.

Pretty sure they meet through tindr and grindr.

whoa, whoa, jsut a mintue are you saying we are a bastion of gay and lesbian pride? well, i guess that's true. seems more normal to be gay here than straight. people come from other cities and just think we're socially retarded.

PeteSilas said:

suomynona said:

Pretty sure they meet through tindr and grindr.

whoa, whoa, jsut a mintue are you saying we are a bastion of gay and lesbian pride? well, i guess that's true. seems more normal to be gay here than straight. people come from other cities and just think we're socially retarded.

Apparently we are. It's 9PM on a Saturday night and we're on a Prince website.

suomynona said:

PeteSilas said:

whoa, whoa, jsut a mintue are you saying we are a bastion of gay and lesbian pride? well, i guess that's true. seems more normal to be gay here than straight. people come from other cities and just think we're socially retarded.

Apparently we are. It's 9PM on a Saturday night and we're on a Prince website.

suomynona said:

PeteSilas said:

whoa, whoa, jsut a mintue are you saying we are a bastion of gay and lesbian pride? well, i guess that's true. seems more normal to be gay here than straight. people come from other cities and just think we're socially retarded.

Apparently we are. It's 9PM on a Saturday night and we're on a Prince website.

Prince wrote in his song "Live 4 Love" that he was kicked out of home when he was 17, not 12.

SoftSkarlettLovisa said:

Prince wrote in his song "Live 4 Love" that he was kicked out of home when he was 17, not 12.

It would be best to read the lyrics to the song.

It is written from the perspective of a pilot flying a bomber. Prince is describing a fictional character, just as he did in other songs. Prince might have drawn on his own experiences to some degree in songs, but he also, as he stated in interview, wrote songs from his imagination.

-----------------------------

On a general note, none of us know the detailed circumstances that resulted in Prince being taken in by Bernadette Anderson. We don't know precisely what happened between Prince and either of his parents or what was discussed between each party and Bernadette Anderson.

langebleu said:

SoftSkarlettLovisa said:

Prince wrote in his song "Live 4 Love" that he was kicked out of home when he was 17, not 12.

It would be best to read the lyrics to the song.

It is written from the perspective of a pilot flying a bomber. Prince is describing a fictional character, just as he did in other songs. Prince might have drawn on his own experiences to some degree in songs, but he also, as he stated in interview, wrote songs from his imagination.

-----------------------------

On a general note, none of us know the detailed circumstances that resulted in Prince being taken in by Bernadette Anderson. We don't know precisely what happened between Prince and either of his parents or what was discussed between each party and Bernadette Anderson.

You are right, it is not fair to speculate, most families are complex and this one was more complex than most. Whatever it was, Prince was nothing more than a little boy and to leave him crying in that phone box was exceptionally cruel. Prince was a loving soul to forgive his Dad in the way he did.

SoftSkarlettLovisa said:

Prince wrote in his song "Live 4 Love" that he was kicked out of home when he was 17, not 12.

I was thinking that maybe he picked 17 because it rhymes with more words than 12.

"Kicked out of my home at 17
A real family,
Now what does that mean
Don't nobody know the trouble I've seen

How can I live 4 love"

[Edited 6/12/16 10:56am]

Although it's true that a lot of this is speculation, it's wrong that his mom didn't stop him from running away. This is a 12 year old kid we're talking about. And if Prince was living in Andre's basement with centipedes (as stated in the DMSR book iirc) and sometimes so hungry that he'd be outside Mickey D's smelling food he couldn't buy then yes his parents fucked up in giving him a good childhood. I remember Toure talking about how Prince was bitter about his mom 'choosing' the abusive stepfather over him.

I have a theory that he was never very close to his mom. He was always with dear Dad more. It really speaks volumes, a mother's treatment towards children and what it can do. Not to say she's a bad mom (RIP by the way), but her "leaving him alone in a world so cold" (as stated in When Doves Cry) was the ultimate blow, to have your MOM who's your biggest supporter ever pick an abusive man over you (interesting to note, he was only abusive towards Prince, not to her. I don't recall there ever being any allegations of him abusing her). Why did Prince's father get writing and composing credits on his albums? Why was Prince's father being accompanied by B-list models to Prince's movie premiers? Why was Prince proudly talking about how 'cool' his dad was in his 1985 Rolling Stone interview, driving with him, buying him new cars and houses, etc..? Why was there 'Father's Song' and "I'll take you on a ride in my dad's cool car" type of lyrics but never anything about mom? Where was "Mother's Song"? She was completely absent from his career. It's like he wiped her existence from his outer celebrity profile. The only time he talks about mom is how she was never satisfied with anything. That's it. He never took pictures with her, took her to his big events in front of the camera, wrote any songs dedicated to her. It was like he had no mother, just a father.

It's sad that that's how it was, but it's impressive to me that despite their strained relationship, he bought her luxuries too (more privately, however) and was obviously disturbed by her death because it led him to follow the religion she recommended to him.

But it's interesting to note how Prince's father was no angel either, but Prince never held it against him. Besides the kicking-him-out-at-age-14 incident, they were estranged several times throughout the 1980s and 1990s, and he was also portrayed as the absuive, alcoholic horrible husband/father in Purple Rain. The difference was that Prince rushed to defend his father after the movie came out, how "he never smokes, drinks, speaks loud… he's calm and totally cool. He could never even hold a gun." But no defense for his mom, who was portrayed as this uncaring woman who can never be pleased by any person.

His dislike of his mother might have led to his early lyrics being the way they were. Before 1999/Purple Rain, most of Prince's lyrics had that 'innocent lover always done wrong' lyrics, painting himself a victim of cruel and manipulative women, and such. He admitted that he used to be a really angry person. It was only after he became famous and opened himself to a whole new world of females that his lyrics matured and became more mature and accepting of responsibility in relationships.

it made him a strong independent person...so there!

PeteSilas said:

MissMarySharon said:

There are so many complexities within human relationships. I think Prince idolised John L and a lot of his drive came from wanting to prove to his father that he could make it as a musician. He has said that his father was "very strict, but then so were most parents back then". I got the feeling he felt the "tough love" had provided him with the discipline and armour he needed to make it in the cutthroat music industry.

Perhaps Prince was just being a normal teenager, but the relationship with his mother had deteriorated at that stage to the degree that she felt they would both benefit from some breathing space and that's how he was allowed to go and live with the Andersons. I don't think this indicates that she didn't want him, more that she wanted the best for him, and perhaps this was the best solution. Later in life, I certainly got the feeling that Prince loved his parents and had nothing but respect for them.

[Edited 6/10/16 23:12pm]

strict is one thing, abandonement issues are another. Those are deep scars, I know, i lost my father at 9, you never really get over a thing like that at that age. Then, with Prince, his legendary control issues have been spoken on by armchair shrinks ever since he began his career, the logic was, because everything was so out of his control as a kid, he overcompensated by keeping everything in control. Most likely true, most people's lives can be summed up by a couple issues like that. It's hard not to be that way, i remember my ma on her deathbed at 59 and thinking how she never got past issues she had as a 3 year old, well, it's kind of an awakening when you see that because it just seems ridiculous to let something like that define your whole life. With Prince, it very well could have been that control issue that kept him from seeking help.

Yep, you never know what people go through, that's why I don't ever judge folks who don't even interact with their parents. I get that there more than one side of the story but you'll be surprised as some parents are. Let them tell you, they were the best parents ever when other people, besides the kids, would tell you something else. Shit, I don't even speak to my dad, my mom told me I should ignoring the fact that he didn't even raise me. When my grandmother was still living, she didn't think either of my parents were good parents, mostly my dad. I feel like that's one of the reasons why she spoiled me a lot. My parents divorced as a toddler, my dad was hardly around and made excuses and still does at age 53, there were times when my mom and I could have been living in the streets, especially down here in the South, it's hard out here.

avajane said:

avajane said:

We all have struggles in life and some of us have a tough upbringing, but Prince did the best he could with the cards he was dealt with.

That's pretty much all we can do.

3rdeyedude said:

SoftSkarlettLovisa said:

Prince wrote in his song "Live 4 Love" that he was kicked out of home when he was 17, not 12.

I was thinking that maybe he picked 17 because it rhymes with more words than 12.

"Kicked out of my home at 17
A real family,
Now what does that mean
Don't nobody know the trouble I've seen

How can I live 4 love"

[Edited 6/12/16 10:56am]

During a live performance of "Motherless Child" in Las Vegas (on You Tube), Prince does a sort of monologue before beginning the actual song -- he says, "Oh, Momma, Momma. Why you put me on the streets? I'm only 12 years old."

CharismaDove said:

Although it's true that a lot of this is speculation, it's wrong that his mom didn't stop him from running away. This is a 12 year old kid we're talking about. And if Prince was living in Andre's basement with centipedes (as stated in the DMSR book iirc) and sometimes so hungry that he'd be outside Mickey D's smelling food he couldn't buy then yes his parents fucked up in giving him a good childhood. I remember Toure talking about how Prince was bitter about his mom 'choosing' the abusive stepfather over him.

I have a theory that he was never very close to his mom. He was always with dear Dad more. It really speaks volumes, a mother's treatment towards children and what it can do. Not to say she's a bad mom (RIP by the way), but her "leaving him alone in a world so cold" (as stated in When Doves Cry) was the ultimate blow, to have your MOM who's your biggest supporter ever pick an abusive man over you (interesting to note, he was only abusive towards Prince, not to her. I don't recall there ever being any allegations of him abusing her). Why did Prince's father get writing and composing credits on his albums? Why was Prince's father being accompanied by B-list models to Prince's movie premiers? Why was Prince proudly talking about how 'cool' his dad was in his 1985 Rolling Stone interview, driving with him, buying him new cars and houses, etc..? Why was there 'Father's Song' and "I'll take you on a ride in my dad's cool car" type of lyrics but never anything about mom? Where was "Mother's Song"? She was completely absent from his career. It's like he wiped her existence from his outer celebrity profile. The only time he talks about mom is how she was never satisfied with anything. That's it. He never took pictures with her, took her to his big events in front of the camera, wrote any songs dedicated to her. It was like he had no mother, just a father.

It's sad that that's how it was, but it's impressive to me that despite their strained relationship, he bought her luxuries too (more privately, however) and was obviously disturbed by her death because it led him to follow the religion she recommended to him.

But it's interesting to note how Prince's father was no angel either, but Prince never held it against him. Besides the kicking-him-out-at-age-14 incident, they were estranged several times throughout the 1980s and 1990s, and he was also portrayed as the absuive, alcoholic horrible husband/father in Purple Rain. The difference was that Prince rushed to defend his father after the movie came out, how "he never smokes, drinks, speaks loud… he's calm and totally cool. He could never even hold a gun." But no defense for his mom, who was portrayed as this uncaring woman who can never be pleased by any person.

His dislike of his mother might have led to his early lyrics being the way they were. Before 1999/Purple Rain, most of Prince's lyrics had that 'innocent lover always done wrong' lyrics, painting himself a victim of cruel and manipulative women, and such. He admitted that he used to be a really angry person. It was only after he became famous and opened himself to a whole new world of females that his lyrics matured and became more mature and accepting of responsibility in relationships.

This is all of what made him the musician he was. That, and some freaky genetic thing. Maybe he had some stuff to prove to his father (and boy did he ever prove how great he was)....and maybe the fact that his mother was 'never satisfied' is what drove Prince to being such a perfectionist in his work. Sad though, from watching from the outside his relationships, it seems that he was never quite 'satisfied' either.

CROWNS1 said:

CharismaDove said:

Although it's true that a lot of this is speculation, it's wrong that his mom didn't stop him from running away. This is a 12 year old kid we're talking about. And if Prince was living in Andre's basement with centipedes (as stated in the DMSR book iirc) and sometimes so hungry that he'd be outside Mickey D's smelling food he couldn't buy then yes his parents fucked up in giving him a good childhood. I remember Toure talking about how Prince was bitter about his mom 'choosing' the abusive stepfather over him.

I have a theory that he was never very close to his mom. He was always with dear Dad more. It really speaks volumes, a mother's treatment towards children and what it can do. Not to say she's a bad mom (RIP by the way), but her "leaving him alone in a world so cold" (as stated in When Doves Cry) was the ultimate blow, to have your MOM who's your biggest supporter ever pick an abusive man over you (interesting to note, he was only abusive towards Prince, not to her. I don't recall there ever being any allegations of him abusing her). Why did Prince's father get writing and composing credits on his albums? Why was Prince's father being accompanied by B-list models to Prince's movie premiers? Why was Prince proudly talking about how 'cool' his dad was in his 1985 Rolling Stone interview, driving with him, buying him new cars and houses, etc..? Why was there 'Father's Song' and "I'll take you on a ride in my dad's cool car" type of lyrics but never anything about mom? Where was "Mother's Song"? She was completely absent from his career. It's like he wiped her existence from his outer celebrity profile. The only time he talks about mom is how she was never satisfied with anything. That's it. He never took pictures with her, took her to his big events in front of the camera, wrote any songs dedicated to her. It was like he had no mother, just a father.

It's sad that that's how it was, but it's impressive to me that despite their strained relationship, he bought her luxuries too (more privately, however) and was obviously disturbed by her death because it led him to follow the religion she recommended to him.

But it's interesting to note how Prince's father was no angel either, but Prince never held it against him. Besides the kicking-him-out-at-age-14 incident, they were estranged several times throughout the 1980s and 1990s, and he was also portrayed as the absuive, alcoholic horrible husband/father in Purple Rain. The difference was that Prince rushed to defend his father after the movie came out, how "he never smokes, drinks, speaks loud… he's calm and totally cool. He could never even hold a gun." But no defense for his mom, who was portrayed as this uncaring woman who can never be pleased by any person.

His dislike of his mother might have led to his early lyrics being the way they were. Before 1999/Purple Rain, most of Prince's lyrics had that 'innocent lover always done wrong' lyrics, painting himself a victim of cruel and manipulative women, and such. He admitted that he used to be a really angry person. It was only after he became famous and opened himself to a whole new world of females that his lyrics matured and became more mature and accepting of responsibility in relationships.

This is all of what made him the musician he was. That, and some freaky genetic thing. Maybe he had some stuff to prove to his father (and boy did he ever prove how great he was)....and maybe the fact that his mother was 'never satisfied' is what drove Prince to being such a perfectionist in his work. Sad though, from watching from the outside his relationships, it seems that he was never quite 'satisfied' either.

ya, nature and nurture collided to create our greatest genius. Edison said that invention was 99 percent persperation and one percent inspiration, no one lived that maxim like Prince.