gatorgirl said:

mailaccount63 said:

I just wanted to briefly revisit a topic that we were discussing earlier on Part 1 of this thread:

And that was (ad libbing) here:
If Prince was physically in such bad shape, his handlers should have called 911, and not a doctor from another state that had never seen him before.

Now I am not disagreeing with this. But.....

The problem with that is: If you are using heavy-duty painkillers (Schedule II Controlled Substances) to deal with a chronic pain syndrome, when there is an emergency, often the responding medical team members freeze when they hear the "patient" (for lack of a better word) is using painkillers (Schedule II) - they just do not know how to deal with this, AND they don't want the liability.

For sake of this discussion, for example, when my cousin (whom I have previously mentioned has a chronic arthritic pain syndrome) accidently cut her foot when she dropped a glass on the kitchen floor, the EMT squad came, and after asking common questions like: What type of medications are you on? etc.; they wouldn't do anything except wrap her foot really tight with a compress and transport her to the local ER. At the ER, the doctors there froze up, and she ended up waiting an hour+ in one of the ER rooms because they had to check out her story with ALL of her doctors: her general MD, and her pain management doctor, etc. They told the ER doctors that my cousin has really good control of her medications (her doctors count every single pill), that she had never OD'd, etc. Only after her story was completely backed up by her doctors, would the ER doctors finally treat my cousin: washed her foot, stitches, applied antiseptic, vaccination shot, etc. She had to wait in pain all of this time until her story checked out.

At a later appointment, my cousin's main/general MD made the comment that he didn't want my cousin, since she is his patient, dying on HIS watch.

The point I am trying to make with all of this is: Yeah, calling 911 probably would have been the right thing to do. But it probably would have taken some time to get to a doctor that would know what to do in a case like this. I think that Prince needed a Pain Management Doctor. Would a Pain Management Doctor have been available to take a 911 distress call?!?!?

We need to wait until the autopsy results come out to know exactly what Prince was going through. But since we seem to be debating the pros/cons of pain relief, I just wanted to point out that just not any old doctor would have known how to help Prince.

[Edited 5/22/16 16:35pm]

Thanks for sharing.

The MD in California is also a pain managment doctor, not just addiction specialist. So, in a way, we do not know if he was anticipating on treating pain managment or addiction or tolerance or what. What makes me so upset is this doctor sent his son with medications without knowing anything about his new patient which is actually illegal. I have even heard of doctors having their licenses sanctioned for writing for a Z-pak for a fam member and not having proper charting as doctor MUST chart on their patient if prescribing anything. So, whatever the cause of death, the doctor in California and his son are in trouble (the son could be charged with practicing without a license but they may let it slide since Prince passed before he made it to him). Compare that to the story you shared where doctors were checking, etc. I hate to say it but the doctor in Cali and his son IMO were greedy and trying to take advantage of a situation we still do not understand. I hate that your cousin had to suffer longer than likely necessary but can understand why they did what they did though it was obvious she needed treatment.

gatorgirl: I am not trying to be mean, but you missed the point I was trying to make. Yes, I know that the MD in California is a pain management doctor as well as an addiction specialist. There is a very, very fine line there.

The point I was trying to make was: in the first half of this thread, it was questioned as to why they just didn't call 911 if Prince was so bad. I was trying to explain/demonstrate that every doctor in the ER doesn't necessarily know how to deal with these opiads.

avajane said:

anangellooksdown said:

I have felt from the beginning that THE HOSPITAL IN MOLINE bears some responsibility for what happened. I hope this is looked at thoroughly. The individuals who rejected giving Prince a private room should be interviewed.

That would not have been Prince having a sense of entitlement; it would've been expected special treatment given that paparazzi and fans were always on his tail. These kinds of exceptions have been made for thousands of years in such cases. Remember, Prince's team ASKED for a private room - and P left because they either couldn't or WOULDN'T provide one.

The focus was on the hospital at the beginning of this and the hospital wS EXTREMELY self-protective, citing "patient privacy". That reeked to me of guilt then and it still does.

I want his soul to be at peace.

To my knowledge, nobody has publicly stated or confirmed that Prince was unable to get a private room. That excuse is highly likely to be false. Even if it was true, it doesn't stop him from staying in any other hospital in the town, state, country, or world. The day before Prince died he was reportedly at a local hospital and didn't stay there either.

Hospitals, private hospital rooms, celebrities, fans, and paparazzi have not been in existence for thousands of years.

The hospital is citing and following the law.

It is the worst possible thing for peace and justice to invent marginal excuses to persecute people.

MMJas said:

Just came across tihs article:

http://healthlifebody.net...-question/

"

The fact is that CPR was given to Prince …but in the text explaining the DOA code says that CPR should not be performed if somebody is already dead hours before the medical team arrives.

From all this the only conclusion what can be drawn is that many things are unclear.
Why ???
Nobody or Somebody knows …"

Newbie here. Thank you for allowing me to join. Not sure if this helps but this is similar to what happened with my Dad when he passed. Paramedics delicately tried to tell me he was gone but I asked them to preform CPR anyway. They said, "Are you sure? Once we start we can't stop until we reach a hospital". I was frantic and said yes. We live in a small community with very compassionate volunteer EMS. I later found out that he had been gone for hours and rigor mortis had started (it was morning, he was in bed and looked like he was still sleeping). They also told me that by law if someone asks for CPR they have to do it. This was years ago. Not sure if things have changed or differs by state.

Eileen said:

anangellooksdown said:

Eileen said:

To my knowledge, nobody has publicly stated or confirmed that Prince was unable to get a private room. That excuse is highly likely to be false. Even if it was true, it doesn't stop him from staying in any other hospital in the town, state, country, or world. The day before Prince died he was reportedly at a local hospital and didn't stay there either.

Hospitals, private hospital rooms, celebrities, fans, and paparazzi have not been in existence for thousands of years.

The hospital is citing and following the law.

It is the worst possible thing for peace and justice to invent marginal excuses to persecute people.

Yes, I thought about editing the "thousands of years" comment to say that public people and the like have had to be given separate treatment for thousands of years. That is true, for obvious reasons. I'm trying to do this all on all I have which is my smartphone. I have to stick with my instinct that investigating why he wasn't given a private room should be part of the focus. We need an overhauling in health care providing in this country. There are some very good doctors and staff but there's beginning to be less accountability... Good point about his not staying in the other hospital either...that was probably by choice, however sometimes you have to take advantage of a situation when the person is at their gravest...that option might've been missed that might in Moline. Either way, Ive also felt that P was ready to pass onward and was accepting of that. [Edited 5/25/16 17:40pm]

I don't believe the private room reason is true. I think his PR team just used that as an accuse (remember when they said his meeting with the Dr the morning he died was a "holistic medicine" mtg?)

I think the hospital even said that the excuse of no private room was not true. Basically, I think once P came to he demanded to leave. He was an hour away from home and wanted to go. And his PR people made up some lame excuse about no room.

Mumio said:

Lots of people are questioning why 911 wasnt called instead of the addiction doctor if Prince was in a "grave medical condition". But the truth is, those words "grave medical condition" (or whatever they were) came from the doctors lawyer at that press conference. His client had been caught carrying controlled meds over state lines and his only defense would be that good samaritan law. Obviously they need to paint the picture of a grave medical situation for that defense to work. So take it with a pinch of salt that Prince's colleagues called the doctor because Prince was in grave danger. Prince may well have seemed ok, if somewhat ill, and the call was made in the hope to make him well again. I dont think we should be blaming those around him for not calling 911 because he may have appeared to be ok to them. Hence no 911 call and no need to be with him that night. Whatever happened it happened after calls were made and folks went home which suggests to me that prior to that, Prince seemed to be ok to those around him.

slimy said:

Rebeljuice said:

Rebeljuice said:

Lots of people are questioning why 911 wasnt called instead of the addiction doctor if Prince was in a "grave medical condition". But the truth is, those words "grave medical condition" (or whatever they were) came from the doctors lawyer at that press conference. His client had been caught carrying controlled meds over state lines and his only defense would be that good samaritan law. Obviously they need to paint the picture of a grave medical situation for that defense to work. So take it with a pinch of salt that Prince's colleagues called the doctor because Prince was in grave danger. Prince may well have seemed ok, if somewhat ill, and the call was made in the hope to make him well again. I dont think we should be blaming those around him for not calling 911 because he may have appeared to be ok to them. Hence no 911 call and no need to be with him that night. Whatever happened it happened after calls were made and folks went home which suggests to me that prior to that, Prince seemed to be ok to those around him.

It may be different in various countries. But the doctor would still be held accountable as if it was a 'lifesaving mission', exact words, I just watched the video. If it was indeed a lifesaving mission, then 911 should be called. Anything lifesaving cannot wait until someone's schedule clears. Or until someone can take a red-eye from across the country. Fact is that Prince was in the State of Minnesota. Cali doctors lawyer is saying that he liaised with the Minnesota doctor and that doctor arranged to see Prince the following day. Absolutely diabolical. Lifesaving means NOW. If they do not hold Prince's doctor accountable then there is no justice. That doctor knew what happened the previous week. Maybe he was in over his head. Maybe he was out of his league or expertise. Whatever the case may be, doctor is accountable.

-

And before anyone wants to repute what I'm saying, again, it may be different in other countries, but where I am, lifesaying means emergency. No questions asked.

blue22 said:

Rebeljuice said:

Lots of people are questioning why 911 wasnt called instead of the addiction doctor if Prince was in a "grave medical condition". But the truth is, those words "grave medical condition" (or whatever they were) came from the doctors lawyer at that press conference. His client had been caught carrying controlled meds over state lines and his only defense would be that good samaritan law. Obviously they need to paint the picture of a grave medical situation for that defense to work. So take it with a pinch of salt that Prince's colleagues called the doctor because Prince was in grave danger. Prince may well have seemed ok, if somewhat ill, and the call was made in the hope to make him well again. I dont think we should be blaming those around him for not calling 911 because he may have appeared to be ok to them. Hence no 911 call and no need to be with him that night. Whatever happened it happened after calls were made and folks went home which suggests to me that prior to that, Prince seemed to be ok to those around him.

It may be different in various countries. But the doctor would still be held accountable as if it was a 'lifesaving mission', exact words, I just watched the video. If it was indeed a lifesaving mission, then 911 should be called. Anything lifesaving cannot wait until someone's schedule clears. Or until someone can take a red-eye from across the country. Fact is that Prince was in the State of Minnesota. Cali doctors lawyer is saying that he liaised with the Minnesota doctor and that doctor arranged to see Prince the following day. Absolutely diabolical. Lifesaving means NOW. If they do not hold Prince's doctor accountable then there is no justice. That doctor knew what happened the previous week. Maybe he was in over his head. Maybe he was out of his league or expertise. Whatever the case may be, doctor is accountable.

-

And before anyone wants to repute what I'm saying, again, it may be different in other countries, but where I am, lifesaying means emergency. No questions asked.

But you are assuming there was a call asking for immediate emergency help. No where have I heard or read that Prince was in an emergency situation and a doctor in Cali was called instead of 911. That would be preposterous. Personally, I think that the call was a conversation about how quickly the doctor can fly over and start attending to Prince's addiction/pain issues and perhaps convince Prince to sign up to one of his programs. They may well have said how urgent it was and getting him onto a program could be a life saving mission, but there is no way Prince was in an immediate emergency situation at the time of the call. If Prince really was in immediate trouble at that time then of course 911 would have been called.

We do not know much yet, but what we do know is that when Prince did need emergency medical treatment to save his life, he was alone. At this point I see no reason to start blaming doctors unless any evidence to over prescribing comes to light. I dont see any reason to blame Kirky J or anyone else around him unless we find out they were supplying Prince. I certainly dont see how anyone can be blamed for not calling 911 as no one was there when it happened.

Rebeljuice said:

Lots of people are questioning why 911 wasnt called instead of the addiction doctor if Prince was in a "grave medical condition". But the truth is, those words "grave medical condition" (or whatever they were) came from the doctors lawyer at that press conference. His client had been caught carrying controlled meds over state lines and his only defense would be that good samaritan law. Obviously they need to paint the picture of a grave medical situation for that defense to work. So take it with a pinch of salt that Prince's colleagues called the doctor because Prince was in grave danger. Prince may well have seemed ok, if somewhat ill, and the call was made in the hope to make him well again. I dont think we should be blaming those around him for not calling 911 because he may have appeared to be ok to them. Hence no 911 call and no need to be with him that night. Whatever happened it happened after calls were made and folks went home which suggests to me that prior to that, Prince seemed to be ok to those around him.

I agree. Plus it's pointless to call 911 to report that someone is sick.

Here is how the conversation would go:

Caller: My friend is "gravely ill" and needs treatment.

911: What's their condition?

Caller: That's confidential.

911: Are they under the care of a doctor?

Caller: Yes.

911: Do you feel he should go to the hospital?

Caller: Yes

911: Can you take him there?

Caller: He does not want to go.

911: Is he conscious?

Caller: Yes

911: Is he lucid?

Caller: Yes

911: Is he able to move, walk, etc?

Caller: Yes

911: Then if he is refusing treatment there is nothing we can do. If he falls unconcious then we can intervene.

He was a grown man, friends can offer to help, stay with him, etc. but if he says "I'm fine". there is nothing they can do. He had seen a doctor that week (if not that very day) and two were scheduled to see him the following day.

Rebeljuice said:

blue22 said:

It may be different in various countries. But the doctor would still be held accountable as if it was a 'lifesaving mission', exact words, I just watched the video. If it was indeed a lifesaving mission, then 911 should be called. Anything lifesaving cannot wait until someone's schedule clears. Or until someone can take a red-eye from across the country. Fact is that Prince was in the State of Minnesota. Cali doctors lawyer is saying that he liaised with the Minnesota doctor and that doctor arranged to see Prince the following day. Absolutely diabolical. Lifesaving means NOW. If they do not hold Prince's doctor accountable then there is no justice. That doctor knew what happened the previous week. Maybe he was in over his head. Maybe he was out of his league or expertise. Whatever the case may be, doctor is accountable.

-

And before anyone wants to repute what I'm saying, again, it may be different in other countries, but where I am, lifesaying means emergency. No questions asked.

But you are assuming there was a call asking for immediate emergency help. No where have I heard or read that Prince was in an emergency situation and a doctor in Cali was called instead of 911. That would be preposterous. Personally, I think that the call was a conversation about how quickly the doctor can fly over and start attending to Prince's addiction/pain issues and perhaps convince Prince to sign up to one of his programs. They may well have said how urgent it was and getting him onto a program could be a life saving mission, but there is no way Prince was in an immediate emergency situation at the time of the call. If Prince really was in immediate trouble at that time then of course 911 would have been called.

We do not know much yet, but what we do know is that when Prince did need emergency medical treatment to save his life, he was alone. At this point I see no reason to start blaming doctors unless any evidence to over prescribing comes to light. I dont see any reason to blame Kirky J or anyone else around him unless we find out they were supplying Prince. I certainly dont see how anyone can be blamed for not calling 911 as no one was there when it happened.

Again, perhaps 'lifesaving mission' means different things to different people.

Five weeks today. We should have been told something by now.

wonderboy said:

cardinal said:

wonderboy said:

Five weeks today. We should have been told something by now.

the silence is getting tiresome. i have had a nagging feeling lately that a bad moon is rising and that some real unpleasant news is coming. and it still blows my mind that i need to check a "prince autopsy" thread. sigh.

Yeah, I'm bracing for something I don't want to hear, but what can one do, got to wait until all test are done and done well, which I prefer more.

The results simply should not take this long to be released to the public, there is clearly some aspect of this investigation that we are not aware of, and/or, not being made privy to.

[Edited 5/26/16 11:15am]

morningsong said:

leadline said:

The results simply should not take this long to be released to the public, there is clearly some aspect of this investigation that we are not aware of, and/or, not being made privy to.

[Edited 5/26/16 11:15am]

I think it was made clear right from the start that the investigation would take several weeks.

paulludvig said:

leadline said:

The results simply should not take this long to be released to the public, there is clearly some aspect of this investigation that we are not aware of, and/or, not being made privy to.

[Edited 5/26/16 11:15am]

I think it was made clear right from the start that the investigation would take several weeks.

And then after several weeks, they stated it will be several weeks more.....I believe they used the term "not anytime soon"

[Edited 5/26/16 11:54am]

EnDoRpHn said:

Mumio said:

Hi Eileen- I don't think they are lying either, but it's not standard EMS protocol to perform CPR on a dead person. Given that they've already said that rigor mortis had set in, there were visible signs of that and they just wouldn't have done it. Maybe the police started it, but paramedics wouldn't have done it. I can speak to this because my husband is a first responder...a paramedic/fire fighter.

Deputies arrived first and started CPR. EMTs ordered it discontinued when they arrived, and notified dispatch of DOA.

If Prince had been dead for about 6 hours, wouldn't the deputies have known. I would think that he would have been cold and blue by then.

anangellooksdown said:

I have felt from the beginning that THE HOSPITAL IN MOLINE bears some responsibility for what happened. I hope this is looked at thoroughly. The individuals who rejected giving Prince a private room should be interviewed. I feel he would've stayed at that hospital and received proper treatment and that would've saved his life - if only the individuals at that hospital would have found a way for him to stay. That meant giving him a private room. That would not have been Prince having a sense of entitlement; it would've been expected special treatment given that paparazzi and fans were always on his tail. These kinds of exceptions have been made for thousands of years in such cases. Remember, Prince's team ASKED for a private room - and P left because they either couldn't or WOULDN'T provide one. Hospital workers can be some of the sickest, most controlling people on the planet because they are HUMANS and know they have a vital commodity YOU need to survive. I live in a city with "top" hospitals and there have ALWAYS been problems like that in those facilities. The focus was on the hospital at the beginning of this and the hospital wS EXTREMELY self-protective, citing "patient privacy". That reeked to me of guilt then and it still does. The hospital has not been mentioned as a possible perpetrator in this for some time, and beLIEVE me, they are breathing a HUGE sigh of relief currently... These institutions are experts at hiding their failings. I posted something about this elsewhere on the Internet right after P's passing because I literally feel like he is counting on us who loved him to look deeper at things and to be smart and know what we see -- to be sure the truth comes out. I want his soul to be at peace.

I don't think that the hospital in Moline bears any responsibility. If Prince chose to leave against doctor's orders, then it's on him. I don't know how the Moline hospital is set up, but it's a small town, so it's entirely possible that they just don't have private rooms. To give Prince a private room may mean that they would have to deny care to someone else.

nelcp777 said:

delinquent said:

USA Today article from 5/19, not sure if any of it is news here.

.

.

.

.

Bullet points:

• "[T]here's no resolution in sight at least for a few more weeks."
• Kirk Johnson has hired a criminal defense attorney
• PRINCE Act was dropped due to first amendment concerns
• Tyka didn't include Duane Nelson Sr. as a known sibling for undisclosed reasons

Someone in the last thread mentioned there could be a 150-day period before the results would be released to the public. I'm trying to find something that corroborates that likelihood but I'm not having any luck.

[Edited 5/22/16 9:15am]

I don't think Kirk Johnson hiring a lawyer is a bad thing or indicating any guilt or responsibility.

Yes I have to agree with you because if anything Kirk has been down with P for so long! I see no guilt, he has been the ultimate friend and helper to P.

tmo1965 said:

EnDoRpHn said:

Mumio said: Deputies arrived first and started CPR. EMTs ordered it discontinued when they arrived, and notified dispatch of DOA.

If Prince had been dead for about 6 hours, wouldn't the deputies have known. I would think that he would have been cold and blue by then.

That's really morbid and not an image I want etched in my psyche but it's way too late now it's been brought up so many times, so here I go. You would assume law enforcement would instantly know whether someone is dead or not to warrant CPR and this is the first time I've heard the deputies showed up first, then the paramedics. I thought it was already established that the paramedics took 5 minutes to get there, maybe not, maybe that's another conjecture somebody put in I suppose. Honestly, I think people are just inserting scenerios that make sense to them and presenting them as facts, there are way too many holes with the actual facts we have.

Astasheiks said:

Does anybody think the ME office will be bought off???

Good question lol