MMJas said:

spastic78 said:

Okay..I'm gonna say it again..epilepsy -a sudden seizure. If Prince was agitated or nervous appearing in his last few days it's quite probable that Dr Schulenberg prescribed him Tramadol which is not an opiate but a pain reliever. It's frequently prescribed by Family Medicine docs as it's not on a watchlist. But it doesn't work well at all. So he may have taken a Percosets as well...the combination has provoked seizures in lots of people with a childhood history of epilepsy. Anyways, it looks like he did visit the Minnetonka Clinic just up the road from the Walgreens. Weird that Dr Schulenberg arrived at 10:57am when I think at 10:30 many were aware that Prince was in trouble....it's not hard to see ambulances going into PP. But I'm hesitant to believe anything cuz this all stinks as a cover-up...but I don't think Kirk Johnson was at fault...if anything he's too distraught to talk to anyone and it's legally not advisable. I wonder about the third person...Hannah Welton? If it was really just any staffer we'd probably know that by now.

Good point. Tramadol alone can cause seizures in people who do or do not have a history of seizures. Taking tramadol with Perocet would likely not cause any issues, though there is no reason to take both (though many people do). Tramadol is a scheduled narcotic so it is still closely monitored, too.

cardinal said:

headtripparade said:

TMZ just reported that so far the investigation has found Dr. Schulenberg to be the only doctor prescribing to Prince and that all of the scripts were in his name--no aliases. Since the DEA monitors pharmacies for over-prescribing for a single individual, this likely means the nosedive happened so quickly there wasn't even time for them to flag it. What the actual fuck happened??

dr drew would say that almost no one od's by opioid alone..,its when you add in something for sleep, like a benzo. unless there was an underlying medical condition, prince would have to ingest so many perkocets to die from them that he probably would puke them up first. so either there is more medically going on, or that dr wrote him something to relax or sleep and it killed him. that may very well be what happened on the plane, too. in pain, take an opioid, need to sleep on the trip home, take a benzo, and he crashed. except there was someone to help him then. "do i have a friend tonight?" --prince at his last concert in atlanta

Someone taking a benzo and an opioid should be fine, as long as they are not taking a lot of one or the other. I have said it before, though, that if he had a disease we do not know of, something causing issues with breathing or something along those lines, that is when something could happen. It still does not make sense though he was in an elevator. That makes me think something happened almost sudden. Him using the elevator at all makes me think something was wrong given he never used it.

gatorgirl said:

spastic78 said:

Menes said:

One other nugget which may not be comforting. I forgot to mention that after combing the net , I found out that DR. Schulenberg's primary specialty was as an Intensivist= special training in critical care @ Excelsior. Can anyone confrim how far this was from the infamous"walgreens"?

This is all so sad. Dr Schulenberg also practiced at the Minnetonka North Memorial medical center which is also an Urgency Center. Dr Schulenberg was board certified in Family Medicine. That center is relatively new (opened 2012). It is about a half-mile from the Walgreens where Prince was seen the day before he died. So the Walgreens was on his way home. Actually, I'm wrong...here's the warrant: http://stmedia.startribun...051116.pdf But it's weird how Dr Schulenberg arrived at PP at 10:57am...I think word was already out by then that Prince was in trouble. [Edited 5/10/16 17:23pm]

Look again..it doesn't say he arrived at 10:57, it says he was "interviewed" at 10:57 - so he was likely already there? Or showed up after the fact?

txladykat said:

If the photos of Prince leaving the Walgreens @ approximately 7 p.m. are accurate, then that leaves us a (2) two hour window before that pharamacy closed. It is alleged that the pharmacy is located @ 600 W. 79th St. in Chanhassen, Mn. A quick search will tell you who the registered pharmacist /pharmacy manager is at that Walgreens. Perhaps a call will yield a result quite similar to ....>not in today, or, Im not sure when they will be back.... The saga continues.

A quick read should tell you what is protocol when filling prescriptions. Perhaps it varies from state to state?

In relation to his autopsy (which may not be important to some),Angelique Quinn Strobl performed the examination @ 9 a.m. on the 22nd of April, 2016. A twelve (12) hour window. Must have been intense.

cardinal said:

gatorgirl said:

Someone taking a benzo and an opioid should be fine, as long as they are not taking a lot of one or the other. I have said it before, though, that if he had a disease we do not know of, something causing issues with breathing or something along those lines, that is when something could happen. It still does not make sense though he was in an elevator. That makes me think something happened almost sudden. Him using the elevator at all makes me think something was wrong given he never used it.

yes, by all accounts, he hated elevators, but i guess enough pain would force it if he was working and trying to get around the building. an underlying illness could certainly wreak havoc with that pill combo, esp if not eating or drinking, electrolytes a bit off, would not take much. and the odds that the thirty or so seconds one is in an elevator would be the time that he fell still freaks me out, and seems like you said, it would have to be very sudden, or else why not grab for a phone? (sheriff said no phone in elevator).

Pain or breathing issues could have caused him to opt for the elevator rather than the stairs...

gatorgirl said:

RiotPaisley said:

Eileen said:

Don’t turn Prince’s death into a drug trial

http://www.salon.com/2016...on_crisis/

It's one thing to call for changes to drug related sentences that don't put people in prison for using/ abusing drugs but people who supply and distribute, or over prescribe this poison should be punished. They are taking advantage of people who are in physical or mental pain.

And the majority of the time that would be the pharmaceutical companies who are responsible, the researchers, manufacturers, and sales reps.

People talk like your average clinic doctors are the ones who run clinical trials, do all the research and know everything about every drug. They aren't. It's the Pharma Corp. who submits all the public info about the drug, it's the Pharma Corp. who educates the doctors in what a drug should be used for and how to prescribe it, it's the Pharma Corp. who runs the trials and submits (and hides) results to and from the FDA and from us and from our doctors. And what isn't done by the Pharma Corp. is written and published by the FDA.

Smookie said:

But being found in the elevator, to me, implies a sudden and rapid medical crisis. A routine OD (sorry, don't mean to sound insensitive), especially from orally ingested drugs, isn't an instantaneous thing. At least I don't think it is.

No, generally not in that way. I've been puzzled by the same point since the original Percocet tale appeared.

Smookie said:

Is TMZ reading this forum?

http://www.tmz.com/2016/0...cet-drugs/

MMJas said:

Is TMZ reading this forum?

http://www.tmz.com/2016/0...cet-drugs/

"It's evidence that Prince may have developed a sudden, life-threatening spike in opiate use, and it happened too quickly for the feds to notice."

The good news - he wasn't a long time abuser, that had been Dr. shopping.

The bad news - for reasons unknown, he may have sought and used the meds to pass with dignity.

MMJas said:

Is TMZ reading this forum?

http://www.tmz.com/2016/0...cet-drugs/

Perhaps - I posted a thread speculating the media watched this whole terrible thing play out, with a timeline of their reporting demonstrating my points. I named TMZ and Blind Gossip, and it was immediately deleted.

FUNKNROLL said:

Smookie said:

Good points. Serotonin syndrom is so rare. But, could be possible. I agree about the "routine OD" situation. Even Dr. G said a while back that she felt it was something sudden.

Smookie said:

gatorgirl said:

Good point. Tramadol alone can cause seizures in people who do or do not have a history of seizures. Taking tramadol with Perocet would likely not cause any issues, though there is no reason to take both (though many people do). Tramadol is a scheduled narcotic so it is still closely monitored, too.

This prompted a thought. If Prince was taking opioids through an illicit source, but not admitting it to doctors, and went to a Dr with symptoms of something else, a Dr could easily prescribe something that would react with the (undisclosed illicit) opioids. I'm specifically thinking of serotonin syndrome. Its onset can be sudden and fatal, and would explain the elevator aspect. That could also explain why the DEA (if it was truly the DEA) would have searched PP yesterday. They wouldn't come in a huge caravan to search for legitimately prescribed drugs. The mention of tramadol made me think of this because its a common culprit when combined with certain other drugs. Of course I'm totally speculating. But being found in the elevator, to me, implies a sudden and rapid medical crisis. A routine OD (sorry, don't mean to sound insensitive), especially from orally ingested drugs, isn't an instantaneous thing. At least I don't think it is.

This doctor has a spotless record. Being family practice, and having a clean record, I don't think he would want to ruin his career and life, especially if he only saw Prince twice. This isn't like the case with Conrad Murray who was actually in the house every night. Schulenburg appears to practice at several locations.

The TMZ article is somewhat interesting. What they won't admit is that this simply doesn't appear to be a sudden addiction/issue and OD. They keep talking about him going to Walgreens but we still do not know if all those trips meant he was buying medications. He may have been grabbing candy or maybe something was out of stock that he was needing, and he kept checking to see if it had arrived. It just doesn't make sense him coming to the pharmacy and grabbing medications every day. I promise a Walgreens would not be handing out control substances daily, no matter who the person is!

We still do not know what happened in Moline, either. A Narcan shot may have been protocol given they do not know why he was unconscious. The public does not have access to those medical records, so everything on that is speculation.

This whole situation is sadly speculation.

I have a hard time imagining Prince taking something that he didn't know the real source. I guess it is possible, just seems hard to imagine.

gatorgirl said:

Yeah, that is what I was thinking. There are not a lot of "reversal agents" out there but it would make sense to give Narcan to someone you have no history on just in case, as it won't hurt them even if there is nothing to reverse.

This was a good read: http://naloxoneinfo.org/s...one_EN.pdf

I have a hard time picturing him ODing on a private jet myself. People were around and not one person around him has been able to say they have ever seen him take anything. As far as I know, no one has even seen him impaired before, either. So, it seems odd that all of a sudden he would be so bad off he is taking meds on a private jet when he knows he's basically "trapped" on the plane for so many hours. Maybe he took something but there were other issues at hand that caused him to need emergency help.

If he had ODed, he would have started going through withdrawals at the hospital. I am not sure how long they would have lasted, but seems odd the next day he shows up at the PP party and seems okay. He was riding his bike a few days later. It just doesn't fully add up to me.

I just wanted to state to any addicts out there or recovering/recovered addicts there is no disrespect meant when trying to defend Prince against it. It's just things don't add up. If he had issues, long or short term, that won't change the fact that he is still loved, will continue to be loved and will continue to be respected as an artist and a man of great character. What is bothersome though is if he did not have an addiction or abuse issues yet is being used a yet another poster child for it. I still think that he was sick with something else and that there is a lot more we simply do not know. I wish the media and everyone else would stop, at least with the negative stuff, until we know some real facts about what happened.

cardinal said:

gatorgirl said:

This doctor has a spotless record. Being family practice, and having a clean record, I don't think he would want to ruin his career and life, especially if he only saw Prince twice. This isn't like the case with Conrad Murray who was actually in the house every night. Schulenburg appears to practice at several locations.

The TMZ article is somewhat interesting. What they won't admit is that this simply doesn't appear to be a sudden addiction/issue and OD. They keep talking about him going to Walgreens but we still do not know if all those trips meant he was buying medications. He may have been grabbing candy or maybe something was out of stock that he was needing, and he kept checking to see if it had arrived. It just doesn't make sense him coming to the pharmacy and grabbing medications every day. I promise a Walgreens would not be handing out control substances daily, no matter who the person is!

We still do not know what happened in Moline, either. A Narcan shot may have been protocol given they do not know why he was unconscious. The public does not have access to those medical records, so everything on that is speculation.

This whole situation is sadly speculation.

I have a hard time imagining Prince taking something that he didn't know the real source. I guess it is possible, just seems hard to imagine.

dr drew said the other day that when they find someone unconscious, nearly 100% of the time, they give narcan. exceptions are when the person has a documented medical problem and a family member is there to explain why they are down. but otherwise, he said emt's almost always give narcan just in case. so even if they did give it in moline, it does not mean that he needed it or responded to it. the tmzs of the world are getting off smearing him and making him out to be some pill popping addict, when we know basically nothing at this point. "do i have a friend tonight?" --prince at his last concert in atlanta

gatorgirl said:

This doctor has a spotless record. Being family practice, and having a clean record, I don't think he would want to ruin his career and life, especially if he only saw Prince twice. This isn't like the case with Conrad Murray who was actually in the house every night. Schulenburg appears to practice at several locations.

The TMZ article is somewhat interesting. What they won't admit is that this simply doesn't appear to be a sudden addiction/issue and OD. They keep talking about him going to Walgreens but we still do not know if all those trips meant he was buying medications. He may have been grabbing candy or maybe something was out of stock that he was needing, and he kept checking to see if it had arrived. It just doesn't make sense him coming to the pharmacy and grabbing medications every day. I promise a Walgreens would not be handing out control substances daily, no matter who the person is!

We still do not know what happened in Moline, either. A Narcan shot may have been protocol given they do not know why he was unconscious. The public does not have access to those medical records, so everything on that is speculation.

This whole situation is sadly speculation.

I have a hard time imagining Prince taking something that he didn't know the real source. I guess it is possible, just seems hard to imagine.

1."Grabbing candy" you say? Yes yes, Its more than likely that he was checking in on a Skittles order. These things are terribly backlogged @ Walgreens . Meself, I would have hopped/driven/cycled on over to CVS. It's close by.

2.You promise that "Walgreens would not be handling out of control substances daily no matter who the pesron is"? Well , certainly you are aware that in June 2013, Walgreens paid a hefty $80 million dollar fine for committing an unprecedented number or record keeping and dispensing violations. In particular the addcitve pain killer, Oxycontone. There is only one way these things reach the black market in such large quantities. Mass distribution. Largest fine to date.

2.Perhaps the staff at Paisley Park who intervened and made a call to Recovery WIthout Walls, wanted Dr. Kornfeld to make an urgent visit to fix a 1/4 inch cable in studio B? It's entriely possible.

3. Yes, it is all speculation. Doctrine of the affections is fascinating , yet, speculative.

4. I had a hard time believing that someone I truly loved and cared about turning into an addict.

*Strange, that pharmacist is still not in.

Menes said:

gatorgirl said:

This doctor has a spotless record. Being family practice, and having a clean record, I don't think he would want to ruin his career and life, especially if he only saw Prince twice. This isn't like the case with Conrad Murray who was actually in the house every night. Schulenburg appears to practice at several locations.

The TMZ article is somewhat interesting. What they won't admit is that this simply doesn't appear to be a sudden addiction/issue and OD. They keep talking about him going to Walgreens but we still do not know if all those trips meant he was buying medications. He may have been grabbing candy or maybe something was out of stock that he was needing, and he kept checking to see if it had arrived. It just doesn't make sense him coming to the pharmacy and grabbing medications every day. I promise a Walgreens would not be handing out control substances daily, no matter who the person is!

We still do not know what happened in Moline, either. A Narcan shot may have been protocol given they do not know why he was unconscious. The public does not have access to those medical records, so everything on that is speculation.

This whole situation is sadly speculation.

I have a hard time imagining Prince taking something that he didn't know the real source. I guess it is possible, just seems hard to imagine.

1."Grabbing candy" you say? Yes yes, Its more than likely that he was checking in on a Skittles order. These things are terribly backlogged @ Walgreens . Meself, I would have hopped/driven/cycled on over to CVS. It's close by.

2.You promise that "Walgreens would not be handling out of control substances daily no matter who the pesron is"? Well , certainly you are aware that in June 2013, Walgreens paid a hefty $80 million dollar fine for committing an unprecedented number or record keeping and dispensing violations. In particular the addcitve pain killer, Oxycontone. There is only one way these things reach the black market in such large quantities. Mass distribution. Largest fine to date.

2.Perhaps the staff at Paisley Park who intervened and made a call to Recovery WIthout Walls, wanted Dr. Kornfeld to make an urgent visit to fix a 1/4 inch cable in studio B? It's entriely possible.

3. Yes, it is all speculation. Doctrine of the affections is fascinating , yet, speculative.

4. I had a hard time believing that someone I truly loved and cared about turning into an addict.

*Strange, that pharmacist is still not in.

Why the snarky tone?

I'm just happy to hear that it wasn't Doctor Fink's fault.

paulludvig said:

Menes said:

1."Grabbing candy" you say? Yes yes, Its more than likely that he was checking in on a Skittles order. These things are terribly backlogged @ Walgreens . Meself, I would have hopped/driven/cycled on over to CVS. It's close by.

2.You promise that "Walgreens would not be handling out of control substances daily no matter who the pesron is"? Well , certainly you are aware that in June 2013, Walgreens paid a hefty $80 million dollar fine for committing an unprecedented number or record keeping and dispensing violations. In particular the addcitve pain killer, Oxycontone. There is only one way these things reach the black market in such large quantities. Mass distribution. Largest fine to date.

2.Perhaps the staff at Paisley Park who intervened and made a call to Recovery WIthout Walls, wanted Dr. Kornfeld to make an urgent visit to fix a 1/4 inch cable in studio B? It's entriely possible.

3. Yes, it is all speculation. Doctrine of the affections is fascinating , yet, speculative.

4. I had a hard time believing that someone I truly loved and cared about turning into an addict.

*Strange, that pharmacist is still not in.

Why the snarky tone?

1. Not sure about CVS up in MN, but CVS in my area is very understaffed and not organized at all. Not that it really matters. The MD said he wrote two scripts. He kept going to the same Walgreens, no? Most RXs at Walgreens can be ready in 15 minutes. So, I take these trips to the store as being petty. Walgreens was not a supplier.

2. I am well aware of the lawsuit. That occured in FL. Because of it, Walgreens is very strict with narcotics. Because of the suit you have mentioned, hydromorphone, methadone and oxycodone (not Percocet, though) RXs must be verified and the patient ran through a system to verify they are not filing at other pharmacies. Most states keep a log of what controlled substances a person has picked up at any pharmacy via name and DOB. Not sure but I figure MN has such a system. As far as we know, Prince was not using an alias.

3. True.

4. The addiction issue falls into not understanding where it has supposedly came from, until he died. I personally do not think he was an addict or drug abuser.

As for the pharmacist not being in, I figure they are just saying that. I guess you could go over there, look for the name of the pharmacy manager on the wall then see who is back there. They could be on vacation. Either way, they cannot say anything to anyone other than authorities.

gatorgirl said:

gatorgirl said:

paulludvig said:

Why the snarky tone?

1. Not sure about CVS up in MN, but CVS in my area is very understaffed and not organized at all. Not that it really matters. The MD said he wrote two scripts. He kept going to the same Walgreens, no? Most RXs at Walgreens can be ready in 15 minutes. So, I take these trips to the store as being petty. Walgreens was not a supplier.

2. I am well aware of the lawsuit. That occured in FL. Because of it, Walgreens is very strict with narcotics. Because of the suit you have mentioned, hydromorphone, methadone and oxycodone (not Percocet, though) RXs must be verified and the patient ran through a system to verify they are not filing at other pharmacies. Most states keep a log of what controlled substances a person has picked up at any pharmacy via name and DOB. Not sure but I figure MN has such a system. As far as we know, Prince was not using an alias.

3. True.

4. The addiction issue falls into not understanding where it has supposedly came from, until he died. I personally do not think he was an addict or drug abuser.

As for the pharmacist not being in, I figure they are just saying that. I guess you could go over there, look for the name of the pharmacy manager on the wall then see who is back there. They could be on vacation. Either way, they cannot say anything to anyone other than authorities.

4.I think we can ascertain from numerous sources that he was being treated for withdrawal symptoms from his opioid addiction. This was before the intervention call and before the April 15th flight home. It is clear he was an addict. I Remember, Kornfeld(addiction specialist) got the call the evening of April 20th. I am assuming that this is the reason for the call . Addiction. Prince was clearly in dire straits. It is possible that he may not have been using an alias.

I cannot think of any other reason why the son of a prominent renowned addiction specialist would show up @ Paisley Park the very next day after getting a call the evening before. How long he was being treated for his addiction is still unclear. According to published reports, he was introduced to this Twin City doctor by a staff member. The staff members also made the call to the addiction specialist as well.

Without running the risk of a reductio ad absurdum, I respect that you may not think he was an addict. Some things just goes against the evidence of our senses.

I concur with the previous 3 statements.