Uhope said:

djThunderfunk said:

Thanks. So we can agree that Larry should not have had any issue with it.

Not only that, Prince was a grown man and fully capable of making his own healthcare decisions based upon his own knowledge and the information available to anyone.

Except blood transfusions which is not allowed under the JW faith.

Uhope said:

Acts 15:28, 29..."For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things; That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well."

Rather than debating whether this and other verses should be interpreted to prohibit blood transfusions (as opposed to eating/drinking blood), I think it would be most productive to agree that "Jehovah's Witnesses believe that blood transfusions are forbidden by the Bible."

After all, JWs extend to others the same tolerance that they appreciate receiving, and I think we can all agree that people can interpret these verses differently in good faith.

[Edited 4/25/16 19:58pm]

And its truly tragic to note that thousands of JW's and their children have died because they have put their confidence in this distorted Watchtower interpretation of blood passages in the Bible. And No, your New World Translation is not the same as the Holy Bible, yours is full of twisted interpretations!

[Edited 4/25/16 20:25pm]

some of U are just going way to far with this. anger and blame are a part of the process though

P&R is going on lockdown just for this type of reaction.

Not many were in that building with him, or that elevator. Maybe, if he was still in Cailfornia most of the time....

I know Appolonia wanted to be there when he was first ill.

FunkiestOne said:

2freaky4church1 said:

Sheila E has been amazing. So much for the rumors that they were no longer friends.

She is the one who got angry with him awhile back and issued a statement that she wasn't going to work with him again. But I'm sure she got over it and not a surprise that both she and Mayte still loved Prince. It is Prince after all and probably some of the best times of their lives was spent with him.

No, Prince hired her and the Escovedo family to join him on the Welcome 2 America tour. After a few great nights in Oakland, CA (where the E family is from), the tour headed to LA. Once the E Family got to LA, they were told that they had been replaced by LG and his band. They came out of pocket for Prince and he dismissed them. Let's not rewrite history.

Larry was just there performing in Jan with Shelby J. Prince was there standing ny the side of the stage enjoying and laughing.

Uhope said:

Pain meds are completely acceptable to JWs, as well as pretty much any medical treatment you can name.

Only blood transfusions are forbidden by the Bible.

Let me re-phrase that:

Only blood transfusions are forbidden ACCORDING TO THE INTERPRETATION of the bible BY THE JW CULT.

And that's a fact.

OldFriends4Sale said:

some of U are just going way to far with this. anger and blame are a part of the process though

P&R is going on lockdown just for this type of reaction.

For pointing out the obvious?

I mean you don't have to be a rocket-scientist to figure this one out.

For me, it has nothing to do with "the process", it's more a professional deformation.
In my job I do a lot of investigation in product failures. I teach root cause analysis classes to new employees.
And I'm going to use Prince's case as an example. Because it's a classic one and completely outside the box for the aerospace industry I work in.

Direct Cause (yet to be confirmed, but very likely): OD on Medication
One of the Contributing causes: JW doctrine that forbids blood transfusion, apparently prohibiting necessary surgery

Root Cause: Jumping, dancing & doing splits on the podium (on high heels)

Like many athletes (ones that come to my mind in an instant are former #1 ranked tennis players Andre Agassi and Steffi Graf) his body, in his case the hips, are worn out by the excessive amount of repetition in combination with high forces.
Usually, people would get a new hip, or knee... in this case, that didn't happen.

GirlBrother said:

I don't want to see his face, or hear or read a word from him.

[Edited 4/27/16 3:38am]

Before his death there were conflicting reports, some saying he had the surgery, some saying he needed the surgery but didn't get it because of the blood transfusion beliefs. AFAIK there was never a clear factual answer as to which rumour (if either) was true.

It's no surprise to me that now we are seein the same contradiction, some saying he did some saying he did not, since both stories were floating before. I suppose in the coming weeks we probably will know...

TweetyV6 said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

some of U are just going way to far with this. anger and blame are a part of the process though

P&R is going on lockdown just for this type of reaction.

For pointing out the obvious?

I mean you don't have to be a rocket-scientist to figure this one out.

For me, it has nothing to do with "the process", it's more a professional deformation.
In my job I do a lot of investigation in product failures. I teach root cause analysis classes to new employees.
And I'm going to use Prince's case as an example. Because it's a classic one and completely outside the box for the aerospace industry I work in.

Direct Cause (yet to be confirmed, but very likely): OD on Medication
One of the Contributing causes: JW doctrine that forbids blood transfusion, apparently prohibiting necessary surgery

Root Cause: Jumping, dancing & doing splits on the podium (on high heels)

Like many athletes (ones that come to my mind in an instant are former #1 ranked tennis players Andre Agassi and Steffi Graf) his body, in his case the hips, are worn out by the excessive amount of repetition in combination with high forces.
Usually, people would get a new hip, or knee... in this case, that didn't happen.

Well I obviously wasn't talking to TweetyV6 since U hadn't posted when I made my statement.

People are still debating whether or not he had the hip surgery. I believe he did have the surgery.

Prince hasn't actually had to follow the JW 2 the T, do U think? I don't think.

But my post is, at this time attacking his belief community isn't something we need right now.

Did u see him at the funeral? boo guys.

OldFriends4Sale said:

Prince hasn't actually had to follow the JW 2 the T, do U think? I don't think.

Yes, we know he didn't follow it to the T given that he still sang Anna Stesia, which contains lyrics that are heresy.

Uhope said:

Pain meds are completely acceptable to JWs, as well as pretty much any medical treatment you can name.

Only blood transfusions are forbidden by the Bible.

Except that it doesn't. EAT and put into the body are not the same termonologies or words. Otherwise Jews who keep kosher would refuse blood because their scriptures first contained "do not eat blood" and here they are to this day not EATing blood. But they'll get a transfusion to save their life or as required in ruitine surgeries. Because the diestive tract and vascular system are simply not the same.

Please tag your stuff with (NWT) at least. I read the Bible too and it doesn't say that. You are telling people what is forbidden by my sacred scritures and I don't appreciate it. As a Christian and a Linguist I find your translation to be false and modern.

Maybe if he'd have had his hip replacement like he needed this wouldn't have happened

SMDH. HE wouldn't have lived in pain for years.

There goes my anger stage again.

Worthy discussion but far too soon...

TweetyV6 said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

some of U are just going way to far with this. anger and blame are a part of the process though

P&R is going on lockdown just for this type of reaction.

For pointing out the obvious?

I mean you don't have to be a rocket-scientist to figure this one out.

For me, it has nothing to do with "the process", it's more a professional deformation.
In my job I do a lot of investigation in product failures. I teach root cause analysis classes to new employees.
And I'm going to use Prince's case as an example. Because it's a classic one and completely outside the box for the aerospace industry I work in.

Direct Cause (yet to be confirmed, but very likely): OD on Medication
One of the Contributing causes: JW doctrine that forbids blood transfusion, apparently prohibiting necessary surgery

Root Cause: Jumping, dancing & doing splits on the podium (on high heels)

Like many athletes (ones that come to my mind in an instant are former #1 ranked tennis players Andre Agassi and Steffi Graf) his body, in his case the hips, are worn out by the excessive amount of repetition in combination with high forces.
Usually, people would get a new hip, or knee... in this case, that didn't happen.

You are aware that many many surgeries are performed with no need for blood whatsoever and there are blood substitutes that are acceptable and used on a regular basis.

To say that he didn't have a necessary surgery due to his beliefs, unless this is HIS statement, is speculation and slander.

He did have the knee surgery as I understand it and it could be possible that due to the recovery of that he didn't want to do another surgery for some time. My mom had rotater cuff surgery and her rehab and reaction after surgery was so horrible she refuses to have the other one done and would rather live with the pain and limited mobility.

KoolEaze said:

TweetyV6 said:

Usually, people would get a new hip, or knee... in this case, that didn't happen.

I read an interview with Jimmy Jam yesterday in which he said that Prince did indeed have a hip surgery.

Not sure how he bypassed the blood transfusion though, or whether it´s even necessary to have a blood transfusion for that.

http://www.tv3.ie/xpose/a...hip-issues

The first and the last part of the interview seem to contradict each other.

-

""He actually had hip-replacement surgery and we did a reunion tour around 2009/2010 and I remember Morris was raving about it and he said, 'I've gotta tell Prince, I should have done this a lot earlier'," Jam told Access Hollywood.

-

-

But then he says:""I knew that he had the surgery that I thought he had... If he didn't, he was in pain, like, unbelievable (pain), because that's the way Morris felt too."

-

The "..if he didn´t ...." part of that sentence sounds a bit confusing and uncertain to me.

"He" means Morris Day, not Prince. Follow the link you've given.

See also: http://prince.org/msg/8/298230

Uhope said:

There was an official response on April 22. Fairly swift, I'd say

http://www.people.com/art...-statement

A couple of good articles:

http://www.cnn.com/2016/0...index.html

http://www.latimes.com/na...story.html

[Edited 4/25/16 15:18pm]

Nice articles. Thank you for the links

GirlBrother said:

I don't want to see his face, or hear or read a word from him.

HELLO...stay the fuck away.

BklynDiamond said:

You are aware that many many surgeries are performed with no need for blood whatsoever and there are blood substitutes that are acceptable and used on a regular basis.

To say that he didn't have a necessary surgery due to his beliefs, unless this is HIS statement, is speculation and slander.

I'm a bit tired of people (JW's ?) making me aware of surgeries without blood transfusion.
A good friend of mine is surgeon (not pedeatric, but specialised in lung surgery) in the AZM, the university hospital in Maastricht. He told me that with a relative big surgery as a full hip replacement is, a blood transfusion very well COULD be necessary, depending on how the wound responds.

But yes, I agree, up until now it's speculative. But to my opinion it's very likely.
The autopsy results will tell. (Hopefully)

You call yourself a Prince fan? Stop talking bad about Larry Graham. You can't like his music, you can't dig his person, but if you are a real Prince fan, you've got to respect their friendship.
I know that Prince once told that Larry is like a brother, a father figure, the only person he can trust as a friend.

You all think that Larry talked Prince into JeHoVa, come on, think twice. Do you really think that Prince will let anybody tell him what to do?

Don't blame somebody else for what Prince did or what he believe in. Don't blame Larry for the music that Prince made.
Show some respect for Prince and be glad that he had a real family who didn't care who he was.
I once saw them backstage together and you could see that Prince was very happy around LG.

They were real friends.
What do you expect: something like Sheila E? She had a major fall out with Prince and now she talked like they were best friends forever.

Watch how sad LG is on the interviews. This was a real friendship.

Oh, I see. You are right. My bad. My focus on the day I posted was not very sharp, to put it mildly.

incredibleD said:

KoolEaze said:

I read an interview with Jimmy Jam yesterday in which he said that Prince did indeed have a hip surgery.

Not sure how he bypassed the blood transfusion though, or whether it´s even necessary to have a blood transfusion for that.

http://www.tv3.ie/xpose/a...hip-issues

The first and the last part of the interview seem to contradict each other.

-

""He actually had hip-replacement surgery and we did a reunion tour around 2009/2010 and I remember Morris was raving about it and he said, 'I've gotta tell Prince, I should have done this a lot earlier'," Jam told Access Hollywood.

-

-

But then he says:""I knew that he had the surgery that I thought he had... If he didn't, he was in pain, like, unbelievable (pain), because that's the way Morris felt too."

-

The "..if he didn´t ...." part of that sentence sounds a bit confusing and uncertain to me.

"He" means Morris Day, not Prince. Follow the link you've given.

See also: http://prince.org/msg/8/298230

amsterdamman said:

You call yourself a Prince fan? Stop talking bad about Larry Graham. You can't like his music, you can't dig his person, but if you are a real Prince fan, you've got to respect their friendship.
I know that Prince once told that Larry is like a brother, a father figure, the only person he can trust as a friend.

You all think that Larry talked Prince into JeHoVa, come on, think twice. Do you really think that Prince will let anybody tell him what to do?

Don't blame somebody else for what Prince did or what he believe in. Don't blame Larry for the music that Prince made.
Show some respect for Prince and be glad that he had a real family who didn't care who he was.
I once saw them backstage together and you could see that Prince was very happy around LG.

They were real friends.
What do you expect: something like Sheila E? She had a major fall out with Prince and now she talked like they were best friends forever.

Watch how sad LG is on the interviews. This was a real friendship.

Yeah, actually, religious people love to prey upon those in dire straits. Had Prince not been so fucked up over his baby dying and his marriage eroding (publically, might I add), he may not have been so easily seduced.

Not saying Larry is an emotionless sociopath. But to suggest they did not lure him into a situation that definitively changed his worldview and led him down some very strange paths is naive and revisionist.

My dad's uncle two months before passing while in hospital was persuaded by a religious group (not saying which for fear of offending) to convert and leave his property to them or "he might not be in heaven with his loved one's" so he did.
His family got very little, they could of contested but they respected his final wishes.

I was religious at the time and thought well at least he found some spiritual peace, but wow it came at a cost.

As I grew older I began to see the hypocricy in all of it.

The if you live a good life and something awful happens then welll subtext is it's because god is testing you. If you live a bad life and something awful happens, then well god is punishing you. I realised things just happen, good things to bade people equally as often as bad things to good people.

Of course it's no one religions fault, it's the snakes that use the word of god to manipulate and achieve there own goals that we are discussing here. Larry has since the Rave new year performance always struck me as a snake, and doing a bit of googling seems to confirm it.

DiscoBallz said:

amsterdamman said:

You call yourself a Prince fan? Stop talking bad about Larry Graham. You can't like his music, you can't dig his person, but if you are a real Prince fan, you've got to respect their friendship.
I know that Prince once told that Larry is like a brother, a father figure, the only person he can trust as a friend.

You all think that Larry talked Prince into JeHoVa, come on, think twice. Do you really think that Prince will let anybody tell him what to do?

Don't blame somebody else for what Prince did or what he believe in. Don't blame Larry for the music that Prince made.
Show some respect for Prince and be glad that he had a real family who didn't care who he was.
I once saw them backstage together and you could see that Prince was very happy around LG.

They were real friends.
What do you expect: something like Sheila E? She had a major fall out with Prince and now she talked like they were best friends forever.

Watch how sad LG is on the interviews. This was a real friendship.

Yeah, actually, religious people love to prey upon those in dire straits. Had Prince not been so fucked up over his baby dying and his marriage eroding (publically, might I add), he may not have been so easily seduced.

Not saying Larry is an emotionless sociopath. But to suggest they did not lure him into a situation that definitively changed his worldview and led him down some very strange paths is naive and revisionist.