Noodled24 said:

funksterr said:

Prince said P1's low sales were negaitively affecting P2's distribution. 'P1 only sold 100 copies'. Maybe he was wrong? Idk.

Do you have a the quote where Prince said it only sold 100 copies? or are you just talking bullshit as usual?

Of course Phase 1 had a knock on effect to phase 2... Phase 1 was a Tidal exclusive, the only way to get it was to sign up to tidal. Fans bitched about it, Prince had to renegotiate with tidal thus removing the "exclusive" element of Phase 1.

A batch of CDs had to be manufactured and distributed globally in the space of a couple of weeks - for an album that hadn't been widely promoted because it was supposed to be a Tidal exclusive. Who do you think paid for that?

Why would he then repeat that process for Phase 2?

The lessons here is to not make decisions based on what fans say they want...I saw the tweet where Prince said it only sold 100 copies. I bought one (but would buy it on every media it's available on because I like to collect) lololol I think cds though are a waste of time entirely unless he could use an on-demand service like kunacki - outside of the set-up and a one page order form to purchase its almost no cost and no maitenance at all.

The only other way is pre-orders and what IS a great idea is a series of limited edition CDs with bonus content. BUT TBH even sometin like that should be added to Tidal to make the subscription worth it.

Prince I think should go all in on Tidal, everything should be exclusive there for 90 days - then released to itunes as well ....forget about the physical media entirely. I dont even have a way to play cds anymore ....appeasing people who wont move forward with how music is ditributed clearly has no profit potential.

Noodled24 said:

funksterr said:

Prince said P1's low sales were negaitively affecting P2's distribution. 'P1 only sold 100 copies'. Maybe he was wrong? Idk.

Do you have a the quote where Prince said it only sold 100 copies? or are you just talking bullshit as usual?

Of course Phase 1 had a knock on effect to phase 2... Phase 1 was a Tidal exclusive, the only way to get it was to sign up to tidal. Fans bitched about it, Prince had to renegotiate with tidal thus removing the "exclusive" element of Phase 1.

A batch of CDs had to be manufactured and distributed globally in the space of a couple of weeks - for an album that hadn't been widely promoted because it was supposed to be a Tidal exclusive. Who do you think paid for that?

Why would he then repeat that process for Phase 2?

A fan asked PRINCE on twitter, why can't PHASE 2 be distributed like PHASE 1.

His exact response in a Tweet which has been deleted, with the rest of his tweets from that night about talking about how to distribute PHASE 2.

"Cause of numbers... Sold 100..."

That was the exact TWEET FROM PRINCE.

Noodled24 said:

funksterr said:

Prince said P1's low sales were negaitively affecting P2's distribution. 'P1 only sold 100 copies'. Maybe he was wrong? Idk.

Do you have a the quote where Prince said it only sold 100 copies? or are you just talking bullshit as usual?

Of course Phase 1 had a knock on effect to phase 2... Phase 1 was a Tidal exclusive, the only way to get it was to sign up to tidal. Fans bitched about it, Prince had to renegotiate with tidal thus removing the "exclusive" element of Phase 1.

A batch of CDs had to be manufactured and distributed globally in the space of a couple of weeks - for an album that hadn't been widely promoted because it was supposed to be a Tidal exclusive. Who do you think paid for that?

Why would he then repeat that process for Phase 2?

Funny thing is WB and TIDAL passed up to distribute PHASE 2 for a phsyical release... At least for now...

Noodled24 said:

funksterr said:

Prince said P1's low sales were negaitively affecting P2's distribution. 'P1 only sold 100 copies'. Maybe he was wrong? Idk.

Do you have a the quote where Prince said it only sold 100 copies? or are you just talking bullshit as usual?

Of course Phase 1 had a knock on effect to phase 2... Phase 1 was a Tidal exclusive, the only way to get it was to sign up to tidal. Fans bitched about it, Prince had to renegotiate with tidal thus removing the "exclusive" element of Phase 1.

A batch of CDs had to be manufactured and distributed globally in the space of a couple of weeks - for an album that hadn't been widely promoted because it was supposed to be a Tidal exclusive. Who do you think paid for that?

Why would he then repeat that process for Phase 2?

1) The "100 copies" tweet from Prince was a self-depreciating joke (he even put "LOL" on the end if I remember corretly) it was hyperbole, the album obviously sold whatever Soundscan said (a few thousand?) but the point he was making was that the low retail sales of Phase One made it a tough sell to get distribution (just 3 months later) of a physical release of Phase Two.

2) He didn't "renegotiate" with TIDAL, a physical release was always planned after a windowed exclusive as was stated n this article from the week of the Phase One announcement:

http://www.startribune.co...321167791/

Also, the physical release date was promoted by TIDAL in their billboards, so it was always part of the plan.

he'd probably have been better off not releasing anything physical until

all phases were out on digital and then make a nice boxed set of all the

albums, plus a disc of bonus stuff into a limited physical release. print a

conservative number, like 50,000 and see how it went.

The problem is, all the fams here always bark at me when I talk about sales... But this is not the 80's anymore. He was selling millions of copies worldwide every single album from 1999- The Hit's/The B-Sides.

From 1982-1993 he was going Platinum with every album WORLD WIDE SALES. Commercially he was sucessfull.

1999- 6M

PURPLE RAIN- 25M

AROUND THE WORLD IN A DAY- 4M

PARADE -4M

SIGN O' THE TIMES- 4M

LOVESEXY- 2M

BATMAN- 4M

GRAFFITI BRIDGE- 2M

DIAMONDS & PEARLS -6M

LOVE SYMBOL- 2M

THE HITS 1- 1M

THE HITS 2 -1M

THE HITS/THE B-SIDES- 1M

... it's with the whole fued with WB, the name change, those were his commercial hardship years. With the exception of The Very Best of Prince and Musicology, he never achieved a PLATINUM status, not counting the EMANCIPATION which was counted as 3x disk.

The problem now is, PRINCE obviously is passionate and pushing out more and more new music/album especially with the technlogoy today, and the streaming sites and deal with TIDAL allows him to more freely do so...

However it becomes complex when you are still signed to a major label and you chose to not promote or take the time to promote your albums and just move on to the next one after next one. AOA could've been a real success in today's industry standards, but he chose not to promote, with the one exception of SNL performance, which had no affect on sales after that episode, as I kept track. AOA still managed to push over 200,000 world wide. But Prince didn't care to promote it properly after his 4 year hiatus, no care for music videos except the cheap rehash performances from the SNL episode.

The end result is there is no "comeback" even though it was his first album in 4 years... The hype died... What was the first news we heard when he announced AOA and PLECTRUM ELECTRUM in the press release?? He resigned with WB, got his masters back, 2 new albums, as well with the PR reissue...

The reality was, he delievered 2 new albums, little to no promotion. PLECTRUM was off the charts in it's 3rd/4th week. Disaster sales. HitnRun Phase 1 lowest sales of his career ever... Now the end result because of the SALES he is having a hard time getting PHASE 2 distributed for a major phsysical release.

EVOLUTION OF PRINCE'S ALBUM SALES:

1979: PRINCE- 1M

1982: 1999 -6M

1984: PURPLE RAIN -25M

1989: BATMAN- 4M

1991: DIAMONDS & PEARLS- 6M

1994: COME - 500,000

1998: NEW POWER SOUL- 400,000

2003: N.E.W.S. - 33,000

2004: MUSICOLOGY - 3M

2009: LOTUSFLOW3R - 543,000

2014: ART OFFICIAL AGE- 200,000

2014: PLECTRUM ELECTRUM- 33,000

2015: HITnRUN: PHASE 1 - 7,000

it's those last 2 albums sales that are very troublesome, for him to get any kind of future major distribution release.

IstenSzek said:

IstenSzek said:

he'd probably have been better off not releasing anything physical until

all phases were out on digital and then make a nice boxed set of all the

albums, plus a disc of bonus stuff into a limited physical release. print a

conservative number, like 50,000 and see how it went.

this makes so much sense....but how do you get someone like Prince to work with and listen to/adhere to a strategy?

i get the fact he feels the need to go to work everyday and create, but how to manage that with selling it - which is really entirely a different specialization -

feeluupp said:

EVOLUTION OF PRINCE'S ALBUM SALES:

1979: PRINCE- 1M

1982: 1999 -6M

1984: PURPLE RAIN -25M

1989: BATMAN- 4M

1991: DIAMONDS & PEARLS- 6M

1994: COME - 500,000

1998: NEW POWER SOUL- 400,000

2003: N.E.W.S. - 33,000

2004: MUSICOLOGY - 3M

2009: LOTUSFLOW3R - 543,000

2014: ART OFFICIAL AGE- 200,000

2014: PLECTRUM ELECTRUM- 33,000

2015: HITnRUN: PHASE 1 - 7,000

it's those last 2 albums sales that are very troublesome, for him to get any kind of future major distribution release.

This just makes my heart sink a little.

terrig said:

feeluupp said:

EVOLUTION OF PRINCE'S ALBUM SALES:

1979: PRINCE- 1M

1982: 1999 -6M

1984: PURPLE RAIN -25M

1989: BATMAN- 4M

1991: DIAMONDS & PEARLS- 6M

1994: COME - 500,000

1998: NEW POWER SOUL- 400,000

2003: N.E.W.S. - 33,000

2004: MUSICOLOGY - 3M

2009: LOTUSFLOW3R - 543,000

2014: ART OFFICIAL AGE- 200,000

2014: PLECTRUM ELECTRUM- 33,000

2015: HITnRUN: PHASE 1 - 7,000

it's those last 2 albums sales that are very troublesome, for him to get any kind of future major distribution release.

This just makes my heart sink a little.

That's the evolution of album sales in general...

IstenSzek said:

he'd probably have been better off not releasing anything physical until

all phases were out on digital and then make a nice boxed set of all the

albums, plus a disc of bonus stuff into a limited physical release. print a

conservative number, like 50,000 and see how it went.

I like that idea. Except.... after he cuts the shit and stops blocking the release of the 80's outtakes. P1 and P2 would be better received if we'd already gotten the outtakes, in their original form. Then we could say 'Prince may not be what he was but his new album is ok, if not great' or whatever.

[Edited 1/10/16 12:47pm]

funksterr said:

IstenSzek said:

he'd probably have been better off not releasing anything physical until

all phases were out on digital and then make a nice boxed set of all the

albums, plus a disc of bonus stuff into a limited physical release. print a

conservative number, like 50,000 and see how it went.

I like that idea. Except.... after he cuts the shit and stops blocking the release of the 80's outtakes. P1 and P2 would be better received if we'd already gotten the outtakes. Then we could say 'Prince may not be what he was but his new album is ok, if not great' or whatever.

Why?

purplethunder3121 said:

terrig said:

This just makes my heart sink a little.

That's the evolution of album sales in general...

No it's not...

I'll be fair and I won't compare ADELE's latest sales to Prince's latest sales obviously... But for example... R. KELLY's latest album was a flop, and even his flop was way above Prince's last two album sales.

paulludvig said:

funksterr said:

I like that idea. Except.... after he cuts the shit and stops blocking the release of the 80's outtakes. P1 and P2 would be better received if we'd already gotten the outtakes. Then we could say 'Prince may not be what he was but his new album is ok, if not great' or whatever.

Why?

Because then the new music releases do not come at the expense of the outtakes. Right now, and for the last 20+ years, it seems to me anyway, that he's just been releasing new music to avoid WB claiming their cut of the outtakes. He's just been waiting them out. That might not be such a bad plan for the fans, but for whatever reason, he just can't create up to the level he did in the mid 80's. His so-so tracks don't compare favorably to the better outtakes.

terrig said:

feeluupp said:

EVOLUTION OF PRINCE'S ALBUM SALES:

1979: PRINCE- 1M

1982: 1999 -6M

1984: PURPLE RAIN -25M

1989: BATMAN- 4M

1991: DIAMONDS & PEARLS- 6M

1994: COME - 500,000

1998: NEW POWER SOUL- 400,000

2003: N.E.W.S. - 33,000

2004: MUSICOLOGY - 3M

2009: LOTUSFLOW3R - 543,000

2014: ART OFFICIAL AGE- 200,000

2014: PLECTRUM ELECTRUM- 33,000

2015: HITnRUN: PHASE 1 - 7,000

it's those last 2 albums sales that are very troublesome, for him to get any kind of future major distribution release.

This just makes my heart sink a little.

Reality is the music industry phsyical sales have been decreasing every year, with the exception of VINYL sales which actually has had a dramatic increase of sales for the past 3 years in a row...

The fact is, PRINCE can not afford to keep putting album after album out with little to no care for promotion.

If he wants to release music in MP3 format through streaming sites like TIDAL so be it. We can get maybe 5 albums a year, that's great, we get the music.

But as far as owning a PHYSICAL COPY, that requires some form of distribution from any label/distributor...

The fact that PRINCE himself brought up issues of trying to distribute PHASE 2 is very clear that there are a few parties that have passed upon releasing PHASE 2.

Plectrum Electrum and Phase 1 will be forever a turning point in Prince's career now in terms of commercial availability... I don't think any major or minor artist has sold that little for their album, with the exception of Robin Thicke's dreadfull album, Paula. Which even sold alot more than PHASE 1 did.

Actually I even bet that PRINCE had the lowest selling album of 2015 with PHASE 1.

[Edited 1/10/16 12:57pm]

Was seling less than 7,000 copies also part of the plan?

redflag said:

Noodled24 said:

1) The "100 copies" tweet from Prince was a self-depreciating joke (he even put "LOL" on the end if I remember corretly) it was hyperbole, the album obviously sold whatever Soundscan said (a few thousand?) but the point he was making was that the low retail sales of Phase One made it a tough sell to get distribution (just 3 months later) of a physical release of Phase Two.

2) He didn't "renegotiate" with TIDAL, a physical release was always planned after a windowed exclusive as was stated n this article from the week of the Phase One announcement:

http://www.startribune.co...321167791/

After Prince’s minute-long speech, DJ Kiss spun a snippet of Prince’s “Kiss” and then she played two songs from his forthcoming album, “HitNRun,” due Sept. 7 via Tidal, Jay Z’s streaming service. Prince did tell the crowd that the music also would be available in a physical format.

Also, the physical release date was promoted by TIDAL in their billboards, so it was always part of the plan.

My problem with physcial releases for the latest albums was that they came available weeks after the release on download portals. And I won't pay another €18 or €20 for a cd (especially when in cardbox) when I already paid €10 for the digital download.

Haven't hardly bought a CD in ages and when I do, I rip it to my computer and put it on my iPod or phone..

Yes I would prefer to keep my physical collection complete but not that way.

feeluupp said:

Was seling less than 7,000 copies also part of the plan?

redflag said:

That wasn't my point. People were saying (no doubt based on the erroneous showbiz411 report), that the physical release of Phase One was some sort of last minute panic move by Priince or renegotiation of his deal with TIDAL and that wasn't the case.

[Edited 1/10/16 14:00pm]

feeluupp said:

Was seling less than 7,000 copies also part of the plan?

redflag said:

I want a margarita.

redflag said:

feeluupp said:

Was seling less than 7,000 copies also part of the plan?

That wasn't my point. People were saying (no doubt based on the erroneous showbiz411 report), that the physical release of Phase One was some sort of last minute panic move by Priince or renegotiation of his deal with TIDAL and that wasn't the case.

[Edited 1/10/16 14:00pm]

point or no point... the only thing we know is PHASE 1 was the lowest selling album of 2015.

feeluupp said:

redflag said:

That wasn't my point. People were saying (no doubt based on the erroneous showbiz411 report), that the physical release of Phase One was some sort of last minute panic move by Priince or renegotiation of his deal with TIDAL and that wasn't the case.

[Edited 1/10/16 14:00pm]

point or no point... the only thing we know is PHASE 1 was the lowest selling album of 2015.

How do we know that? You cant say that without quantifying it against something. Lowest sales on iTunes? lowest sales in Target? There must be thousands of artists who tried selling albums last year and sold a whole lot less. For all you know, I may have released an album last year and only sold 5. So maybe I was the lowest selling artist of 2015. There are artists out there that would be celebrating success on the back of 7000 album sales.

terrig said:

Noodled24 said:

Do you have a the quote where Prince said it only sold 100 copies? or are you just talking bullshit as usual?

Of course Phase 1 had a knock on effect to phase 2... Phase 1 was a Tidal exclusive, the only way to get it was to sign up to tidal. Fans bitched about it, Prince had to renegotiate with tidal thus removing the "exclusive" element of Phase 1.

A batch of CDs had to be manufactured and distributed globally in the space of a couple of weeks - for an album that hadn't been widely promoted because it was supposed to be a Tidal exclusive. Who do you think paid for that?

Why would he then repeat that process for Phase 2?

The lessons here is to not make decisions based on what fans say they want...I saw the tweet where Prince said it only sold 100 copies. I bought one (but would buy it on every media it's available on because I like to collect) lololol I think cds though are a waste of time entirely unless he could use an on-demand service like kunacki - outside of the set-up and a one page order form to purchase its almost no cost and no maitenance at all.

The only other way is pre-orders and what IS a great idea is a series of limited edition CDs with bonus content. BUT TBH even sometin like that should be added to Tidal to make the subscription worth it.

Prince I think should go all in on Tidal, everything should be exclusive there for 90 days - then released to itunes as well ....forget about the physical media entirely. I dont even have a way to play cds anymore ....appeasing people who wont move forward with how music is ditributed clearly has no profit potential.

Bullshit. Simply print a limited amount and price them accordingly as a premium. There would be no loss due to CDs sitting on shelves or in warehouses.

Why not make a sale for those that buy physical copies only?

djThunderfunk said:

terrig said:

The lessons here is to not make decisions based on what fans say they want...I saw the tweet where Prince said it only sold 100 copies. I bought one (but would buy it on every media it's available on because I like to collect) lololol I think cds though are a waste of time entirely unless he could use an on-demand service like kunacki - outside of the set-up and a one page order form to purchase its almost no cost and no maitenance at all.

The only other way is pre-orders and what IS a great idea is a series of limited edition CDs with bonus content. BUT TBH even sometin like that should be added to Tidal to make the subscription worth it.

Prince I think should go all in on Tidal, everything should be exclusive there for 90 days - then released to itunes as well ....forget about the physical media entirely. I dont even have a way to play cds anymore ....appeasing people who wont move forward with how music is ditributed clearly has no profit potential.

Bullshit. Simply print a limited amount and price them accordingly as a premium. There would be no loss due to CDs sitting on shelves or in warehouses.

Why not make a sale for those that buy physical copies only?

Well if you'd read my whole comment, I agreed with that....but large distributors simply dont want to spend on anything really anymore. If you're not leading a cultural zeitgeist with social media - no one is going to invest...and its really better if Prince doesn't handle stuff like this.

terrig said:

djThunderfunk said:

Bullshit. Simply print a limited amount and price them accordingly as a premium. There would be no loss due to CDs sitting on shelves or in warehouses.

Why not make a sale for those that buy physical copies only?

Well if you'd read my whole comment, I agreed with that....but large distributors simply dont want to spend on anything really anymore. If you're not leading a cultural zeitgeist with social media - no one is going to invest...and its really better if Prince doesn't handle stuff like this.

How is it better than selling most copies as digital as that is what sells the most AND selling a small amoung of physical to get those customers $$ too. Amazon doesn't care if you have only sell 5,000 units. X% of 5,000 is better than X% of 0, no?

djThunderfunk said:

terrig said:

Well if you'd read my whole comment, I agreed with that....but large distributors simply dont want to spend on anything really anymore. If you're not leading a cultural zeitgeist with social media - no one is going to invest...and its really better if Prince doesn't handle stuff like this.

How is it better than selling most copies as digital as that is what sells the most AND selling a small amoung of physical to get those customers $$ too. Amazon doesn't care if you have only sell 5,000 units. X% of 5,000 is better than X% of 0, no?

True, in theory, but for a limited edition to be REALLY worth more money - there would need to be significant additional content, supporting video etc etc...which I'm guessing costs more to do than can be seen on a return in profit. I'm guessing thats why Prince doesnt do them himself, and why no one else is going that route except major label artists....

feeluupp said:

Noodled24 said:

Do you have a the quote where Prince said it only sold 100 copies? or are you just talking bullshit as usual?

Of course Phase 1 had a knock on effect to phase 2... Phase 1 was a Tidal exclusive, the only way to get it was to sign up to tidal. Fans bitched about it, Prince had to renegotiate with tidal thus removing the "exclusive" element of Phase 1.

A batch of CDs had to be manufactured and distributed globally in the space of a couple of weeks - for an album that hadn't been widely promoted because it was supposed to be a Tidal exclusive. Who do you think paid for that?

Why would he then repeat that process for Phase 2?

A fan asked PRINCE on twitter, why can't PHASE 2 be distributed like PHASE 1.

His exact response in a Tweet which has been deleted, with the rest of his tweets from that night about talking about how to distribute PHASE 2.

"Cause of numbers... Sold 100..."

That was the exact TWEET FROM PRINCE.

100 would be a remarkably round number of copies to sell. You yourself touted the number (at the time) of 10,000 based on estimated sales of other albums charting at the same position.

It's blatently obvious 100 is not an accurate number. When you attempt to use things like that fact; it makes you look like a troll.

Noodled24 said:

feeluupp said:

A fan asked PRINCE on twitter, why can't PHASE 2 be distributed like PHASE 1.

His exact response in a Tweet which has been deleted, with the rest of his tweets from that night about talking about how to distribute PHASE 2.

"Cause of numbers... Sold 100..."

That was the exact TWEET FROM PRINCE.

100 would be a remarkably round number of copies to sell. You yourself touted the number (at the time) of 10,000 based on estimated sales of other albums charting at the same position.

It's blatently obvious 100 is not an accurate number. When you attempt to use things like that fact; it makes you look like a troll.

ovbiously 100 is not the ACTUAL number... but that is the ACTUAL TWEET Prince wrote.

WHAT DOESN'T REGISTER FOR YOU??!! GEEZE.

Noodled24 said:

feeluupp said:

A fan asked PRINCE on twitter, why can't PHASE 2 be distributed like PHASE 1.

His exact response in a Tweet which has been deleted, with the rest of his tweets from that night about talking about how to distribute PHASE 2.

"Cause of numbers... Sold 100..."

That was the exact TWEET FROM PRINCE.

100 would be a remarkably round number of copies to sell. You yourself touted the number (at the time) of 10,000 based on estimated sales of other albums charting at the same position.

It's blatently obvious 100 is not an accurate number. When you attempt to use things like that fact; it makes you look like a troll.

... u might be the BIGGEST TROL on PRINCE.ORG now...

u do realize that is THE ACTUAL TWEET PRINCE TWEETED.... wow noodled... wow.

redflag said:

Noodled24 said:

1) The "100 copies" tweet from Prince was a self-depreciating joke (he even put "LOL" on the end if I remember corretly) it was hyperbole, the album obviously sold whatever Soundscan said (a few thousand?) but the point he was making was that the low retail sales of Phase One made it a tough sell to get distribution (just 3 months later) of a physical release of Phase Two.

2) He didn't "renegotiate" with TIDAL, a physical release was always planned after a windowed exclusive as was stated n this article from the week of the Phase One announcement:

http://www.startribune.co...321167791/

After Prince’s minute-long speech, DJ Kiss spun a snippet of Prince’s “Kiss” and then she played two songs from his forthcoming album, “HitNRun,” due Sept. 7 via Tidal, Jay Z’s streaming service. Prince did tell the crowd that the music also would be available in a physical format.

Also, the physical release date was promoted by TIDAL in their billboards, so it was always part of the plan.

That window of exclusivity was initially much longer. Why would they announce an album but not give the date?

Check the album announcement thread. Confirmation of a CD release date took some time.