djThunderfunk said:

jayspud said:

I see your point regarding this but I would also say that the study largely reflects the fact that younger music followers simply do not pay for their music. Cd sales have fallen 10% in one year(over14 million). I think the fact that older albums are selling better merely relfects slightly older buyers with avilabale money and the notion that they would like to buy products rather than simply illegally download them. Currently Soundcloud states that 71% of music is listened to for free and 95% of dowbloads are illegal.

Interestingly digital sales of music also fell by over 50m for current work and 85m for past work. Vinyl sales have fared better but the figures are tiny compared to the rest. Interesting stuff.

I understand that sales are going down across the board. However, some here argue that physical sales are dead and us old fogies need to give it up and move on with the times, and that it doesn't make sense to keep manufacturing CDs for the few of us that don't want to give up the tactile experience. The numbers prove these arguments wrong. It's clear that it makes sense for labels to continue printing discs (although of course at lower numbers), especially for older artists that have older fans.

I think you make a really good point. It's very much the slightly older fans that are willing to actually purchase the music and as such are the more valuable consumers for companies to target. Whilst younger fans may be valuable to advertisers etc the slightly older fans are oftenin a position and with a mindest to hand over money to make these Cd's worthwile.

jayspud said:

djThunderfunk said:

I understand that sales are going down across the board. However, some here argue that physical sales are dead and us old fogies need to give it up and move on with the times, and that it doesn't make sense to keep manufacturing CDs for the few of us that don't want to give up the tactile experience. The numbers prove these arguments wrong. It's clear that it makes sense for labels to continue printing discs (although of course at lower numbers), especially for older artists that have older fans.

I think you make a really good point. It's very much the slightly older fans that are willing to actually purchase the music and as such are the more valuable consumers for companies to target. Whilst younger fans may be valuable to advertisers etc the slightly older fans are oftenin a position and with a mindest to hand over money to make these Cd's worthwile.

It's not just about older or younger fans, the fact that VINYL is the highest physical form of music being sold now today... More younger fans are buying vinyl over the older fans, that's an interesting statistic as well...

It's funny PRINCE hates it when scalpers buy his tickets and resell them for 2x the price... Isn't that what everyone is doing with the HitnRun Phase 2 CD... Look at the absurd prices on eBAY... Almost every PHASE 2 cd has sold over $100 on eBAY.

feeluupp said:

jayspud said:

I think you make a really good point. It's very much the slightly older fans that are willing to actually purchase the music and as such are the more valuable consumers for companies to target. Whilst younger fans may be valuable to advertisers etc the slightly older fans are oftenin a position and with a mindest to hand over money to make these Cd's worthwile.

It's not just about older or younger fans, the fact that VINYL is the highest physical form of music being sold now today... More younger fans are buying vinyl over the older fans, that's an interesting statistic as well...

No, it isn't. Check the data at the link:

http://www.chartattack.com/news/2016/01/20/old-music-is-outselling-new-music-for-the-first-time-in-history/

In 2015 vinyl sold 1/10 what CDs sold. Vinyl sales did go up while CDs & digital both went down, but, it's nowhere near the sales of CDs.

PRINCE just tweeted this... Do u think we will see a PHASE 2 CD release at all??

Pantal @DjPantal @Prince3EG @FunkyMrG Please just release the album like you would normally. THIS IS THE NEW NORMAL: PEER 2 PEER. NO MID-MAN

[Edited 1/26/16 11:25am]

feeluupp said:

New tweets when a fan addressed the high prices of PHASE 2 on eBAY:

Danny L'Amour @thedannylamour how is that different than that ebay link? BECAUSE ANYONE USING EBAY 2 MARK UP ITEMS 500% IS NOT A PEER. TOUT.

TRUE SUPPORTERS OF THE ART WOULDN'T DO THAT. EVERYONE USING EBAY 4 THE WRONG REASONS DESERVE EACH OTHER. Y WORRY 'BOUT THEM?

he is strange...is he testing his constituents of the park? they failed miserably ...all those who r selling extra copies...meanwhile some of his most loyal r left in the dust

warning2all said:

feeluupp said:

PRINCE just tweeted this... Do u think we will see a PHASE 2 CD release at all??

Prince3EG ‏@Prince3EG 3m3 minutes agoChanhassen, MN

Pantal @DjPantal @Prince3EG @FunkyMrG Please just release the album like you would normally. THIS IS THE NEW NORMAL: PEER 2 PEER. NO MID-MAN

[Edited 1/26/16 11:25am]

I would still believe in a retail release, if only for the UPC Barcode on the back of "Hitnrun Phase 2". Why get a Barcode registered if it would never see a scan? I personally don't believe we'll see a."Phase 3,4 or 5" the way this has gone. Prince is better off going back to the drawing board.

Everything about the history of Prince music leads me to believe, now without question Phase 3, 4 and 5 will definitely see a release of some sort. Prince doesn't let a thing like market forces stop him. That's why he built Paisley Park: so he could record essentialy unreleaseable music, at will. That's why he fought with WB in the first place: so he could release, unmarketable music, as much as he likes. Low sales, distribution issues, are the normal for Prince.

So.. It seems like PHASE 2 is only sold at a local record store, Electric Fetus records in MPLS.

Also PRINCE has been responded to fans on TWITTER when they ask when they can get PHASE 2 in their stores, and he replied:

WHEN U START THAT NEW MUSIC CLUB STORE THERE!

It's safe to say that PHASE 2 is not getting a major release due to the fact that no major label wants to distribute PHASE 2 after PHASE 1 sold less than 10,000 copies.

feeluupp said:

PRINCE just tweeted this...

THIS IS THE NEW NORMAL: PEER 2 PEER. NO MID-MAN

.

The Prince man is using some very elaborate drugs or just plain out of his mind.

Dropping off a few boxes of CD's at a local wrecka stow is not arranging distrbution.

Not US distribution, let alone worldwide distribution.

The Prince man is a lazy idiot if things stay like this.

The decrease in his costs most certainly has effects for the fans: rising costs!

... everything is clear not with how PHASE 2 is being distributed... now go back and read page 1 of what i wrote... seems like in the end it was correct.

It's safe to say there is indeed no major label distributing PHASE 2, as all the evidence shows... No one really wanted to distribute this album.

feeluupp said:

It's safe to say there is indeed no major label distributing PHASE 2, as all the evidence shows... No one really wanted to distribute this album.

.

That will really help sales.

The Prince man has to blame himself once more and has to think really hard about this.

If The Polyphonic Spree can get $140,000 on Kickstarter, Prince could easily get a million+.

Offer up a list of new songs (with descriptions) and the top 15 songs selected by fans become the next album. He gets his $$$. Has a flunky mail out the WAVs. We get new music. Everybody's happy

I'm not even joking. Bring it to the people Prince

[Edited 1/29/16 23:02pm]

feeluupp said:

It's safe to say there is indeed no major label distributing PHASE 2, as all the evidence shows... No one really wanted to distribute this album.

He should have worked out a compromise with Warners: They will release any new album he submits and in return,they are allowed to remaster his classic albums (bonus tracks included).

It's really easy,isn't it? Prince doesn't know how to compromise and play fair

so how many CDs HAVE been soild so far???

SoulAlive said:

feeluupp said:

It's safe to say there is indeed no major label distributing PHASE 2, as all the evidence shows... No one really wanted to distribute this album.

He should have worked out a compromise with Warners: They will release any new album he submits and in return,they are allowed to remaster his classic albums (bonus tracks included).

It's really easy,isn't it? Prince doesn't know how to compromise and play fair

Wasn't that some what of the original deal that was publically announced back in the summer of 2014? Promised remastered albums of his classics?? Purple Rain remaster never surfaced. Prince TWEETED reissue's galore when the PIE IS CUT FAIRLY... In other words PRINCE wants the whole piece of the pie, and sadly the reality is, we will never see any remastered or reisses as long as Prince is still living. That is the truth.

In terms of AOA and Plectrum, those were released by WB, WB tried to promote as much as they can, booked PRINCE a gig on SNL, but after that all the momentum had died. AOA was a moderate success, PLECTRUM bombed on the charts.

PHASE 1 was distributed by ROC NATION/TIDAL/NPG... Worst commercial performance of PRINCE'S career... Which led to NO ONE wanting to ditribute PHASE 2.

I'd be interested to see what his numbers were on TIDAL for PHASE 1 and PHASE 2 streaming... RIHANNA's new album was certified PLATINUM by RIAA just for downloads alone on TIDAL, with over 13 million streams and over 1 million dowloads in one day for her brand new album.

luvsexy4all said:

so how many CDs HAVE been soild so far???

A few days ago a fan asked PRINCE on TWITTER if any of these "sold" CD's would count to soundscan... He replied in his Tweet which was deleted 15 mins later... "LET'S HOPE NOT."

... Also I remember last year a member made a thread saying we won't see PRINCE on the BILLBOARD 200 anymore... We saw him on it with PHASE 1 debuting at #70, the second week was off the charts completely...

It's safe to say PHASE 2 will not make it on the BILLBOARD 200 indicating sales less than 1,000 copies.

I haven't followed very closely all of Prince's new marketing developments and Twitter dialogue happening lately. I feel that the guy is simply tiring of the record companies and their business standard altogether, and his current excercises with the Warner Bros. album sales and give-and-take games going on between the two, along with the TIDAL streaming service is his effort to convince himself to just cut the cord and move forward fully with an independent NPG Records, for physical products, at least. I'd like to see that, despite all the speak of how Prince cuts a bad deal to his fans and music enthusiasts, offering sucky service and whatnot. The sooner he gets the ball rolling, the quicker he would get to smoothing those pesky distribution problems. So whenever he has something to share with the public he can just put it out for consumption like he has always wanted to do--and I think many of us would appreciate--and charge whatever price he feels is fair for him and digestable to the buyer. At any rate it is certainly up to him to decide what he's gonna do. I'm not trying to be a greedy fan, either--If the Vault does not break open, and we don't get any remastered, deluxe editions of "classic" albums that linger lustily in the imagination of many a mind, I will not cry.

Rhianna sold 460 physical copies of her new cd the first week, Jay-Z's fuzy Tidal streaming math and bullshit Samsung deal be damned.

[Edited 2/3/16 14:12pm]

funksterr said:

Rhianna sold 460 physical copies of her new cd the first week, Jay-Z's fuzy Tidal streaming math and bullshit Samsung deal be damned.

[Edited 2/3/16 14:12pm]

what r u talking about?

it was downloaded over 1 million times, streamed 13 million times in one day.

and the first week sales aren't even in it... according to hits daily double her first week sales are 84,340 and it's only 68% complete.

according to BILLBOARD she's expected to sell:

110k albums and 140-150k SPS the first week.

(Despite a vexed rollout for her ANTI (Westbury Road/Roc Nation), Rihanna looks to be headed for a #1 album bow on this week's charts, with a likely 110k albums and 140-150k SPS (driven largely by sales of single "Work").

[Edited 2/3/16 14:32pm]

feeluupp said:

funksterr said:

Rhianna sold 460 physical copies of her new cd the first week, Jay-Z's fuzy Tidal streaming math and bullshit Samsung deal be damned.

[Edited 2/3/16 14:12pm]

what r u talking about?

it was downloaded over 1 million times, streamed 13 million times in one day.

and the first week sales aren't even in it... according to hits daily double her first week sales are 84,340 and it's only 68% complete.

according to BILLBOARD she's expected to sell:

110k albums and 140-150k SPS the first week.

(Despite a vexed rollout for her ANTI (Westbury Road/Roc Nation), Rihanna looks to be headed for a #1 album bow on this week's charts, with a likely 110k albums and 140-150k SPS (driven largely by sales of single "Work").

[Edited 2/3/16 14:32pm]

http://www.byroncrawford.com/2016/02/new-rihanna-album-does-troy-ave-numbers.html

funksterr said:

feeluupp said:

what r u talking about?

it was downloaded over 1 million times, streamed 13 million times in one day.

and the first week sales aren't even in it... according to hits daily double her first week sales are 84,340 and it's only 68% complete.

according to BILLBOARD she's expected to sell:

110k albums and 140-150k SPS the first week.

(Despite a vexed rollout for her ANTI (Westbury Road/Roc Nation), Rihanna looks to be headed for a #1 album bow on this week's charts, with a likely 110k albums and 140-150k SPS (driven largely by sales of single "Work").

[Edited 2/3/16 14:32pm]

http://www.byroncrawford.com/2016/02/new-rihanna-album-does-troy-ave-numbers.html

i read the article...

i guess the calculations were that number because it was only released on tidal for that one day... the "real" first week sales will be calculated on friday as it was released everywhere now...

maybe no one "bought" the physical copy through TIDAL. but it was streamed 13 million times and downloaded 1 million times in one day through TIDAL alone...

and the actual first week sales will be calculated by friday as i stated.

funksterr said:

Rhianna sold 460 physical copies of her new cd the first week, Jay-Z's fuzy Tidal streaming math and bullshit Samsung deal be damned.

[Edited 2/3/16 14:12pm]

if Rihanna's new album only sold 460 physical copies through TIDAL... imagine Prince's numbers for PHASE 2... no wonder why everyone passed up on a major distribution for that album.

feeluupp said:

funksterr said:

Rhianna sold 460 physical copies of her new cd the first week, Jay-Z's fuzy Tidal streaming math and bullshit Samsung deal be damned.

[Edited 2/3/16 14:12pm]

if Rihanna's new album only sold 460 physical copies through TIDAL... imagine Prince's numbers for PHASE 2... no wonder why everyone passed up on a major distribution for that album.

100 copies sold.

My point with Rhianna is that everybody's sales are crazy low. Streams are essentially bullshit numbers dependent on self-reporting from businesses that are not real. Prince put zero promotion into Phase1 and Phase2. You can say virtually the same thing about AOA and PE. He had no corporate sponsers. He had virtually no online presence. No tour. There were magazine and newspaper interviews, but I don't know what the value is in that given that nobody reads that shit anymore. Even if you did, there was more about Josh than Prince in those articles.

Prince's numbers are exactly what you'd expect them to be in this market, given that he isn't really playing the game anymore, and these last few releases were basicaly vanity projects.