KingSausage said:

Also, you can't steal anything from Sabotage, Eye, and their like because that shit wasn't theirs to begin with. [Edited 1/1/16 6:53am]

......whereas the free fan releases are theirs?

All of them?

Each and every note of the studio outtakes are theirs? Each live note was recorded by them?

How so?

Over the years we had these "physical boots vs. fan-provided files" disputes here countless times already.

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If nobody wants to add anything on topic (CL-R7) anymore, then how about closing this thread prematurely now, OP & mods?

Always love me some Torgo Props to you for perhaps the first "Manos" or Torgo reference on the org.

2freaky4church1 said:

I have it:

KnowThySelfie said:

BigChick said:

LOGIC said:

A label that not just "produces" digital files ONLY, but "the real deal" instead.

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This always make me laugh.

Where is the "logic"?

What's more real about silvers then lossless digital files? Do they sound better?

KnowThySelfie said:

djThunderfunk said:

Some on here seem to be materially invested in the bootleg "business". Just sayin'...

People with an opposing view to yours are "materially invested in the bootleg business"?

Wierd logic, but okay.

Well, that's not what I said, but okay.

You can either like the release or not. Buy or download the release for free or not. I found the last disc interesting and also enjoyed what exists of the Milan gig. Ditto the Paris gig, even though thats been around amongst a few for a couple of years. Quite frankly, i'm surprised that Sabotage even put the effort to make a new title where the current climate is that everything should be a free release. I'm not taking stands or sides on that arguement. I really don't have a problem with this release. It's their version of the material. Unlike say... EYE records. I wonder why there isn't a "Blast From the Past V4" ? Maybe because a few people clamped down and let some BS traders have their moment in the sun. But that sun has faded...gone and never to return. At least Sab. never sunk that low.

Big Chick

"Security Ensuring Thee"

LOGIC said:

Here are a few answers to and comments on previous statements made about CL-R7 in this thread:

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The exclusive soundboard recordings on SAB’s CL-R7 came from two analog cassettes. One of these was torn and had been fixed by some fool with everyday Scotch tape, causing playback problems not just around that spot, but during several tracks. This obviously was the VERY first thing that the label had to solve.

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Both tapes just covered major parts of the Paris and Milan shows, so what’s on CL-R7 is ALL that SAB ever received. Their source claimed that all other parts/tapes were lost. Personally, I find it rather funny/naive how some folks like "RaspBerryGirlFriend" (reply #22) seem to imagine Prince’s longest-established bootleg label willingly editing two unknown complete soundboard shows for the sake of whatever. Hilarious.

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In fact, however, a LOT of studio work had to be applied to turn two worn out analog cassettes with playback issues, hundreds (!) of analog mini drop-outs and even lots of feedback into the rather flawless result you’re hearing on CL-R7 now.

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Those two soundboard shows have been spread over 4 discs here for a reason. The intention was to include as many rare & relevant songs on this set as possible, thereby filling all 6 discs to the max.

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Besides, there’s a "chronology" behind this 7th volume’s concept. That goes for the evolving from disc 1 to disc 6 as a whole just like it does among the first two discs: The rehearsal of "Rebirth Of The Flesh" took place before the Grammy Awards, which preceded the "Funk City" rehearsal … which in turn preceded the Lovesexy tour premiere in Paris.

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If you look at the "Funk City" rehearsal on disc 1 closely, then you will note immediately that it covers the first half of a typical Lovesexy set … which is exactly what was missing from the Paris premiere soundboard cassette. So this explains why the first five Paris tracks appear at the END of disc 1.

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If you’re listening a little closer, then you’ll find that "Adore" and "Sister" (which were both missing on SAB’s original analog master) were taken from an "MTV News Report" that featured edits of those two songs from exactly this particular tour opening gig in Paris. So these tewo fitted in perfectly.

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Mind you, ever-present talk-before-you-think critics, the track order on discs 1 to 4 is a lot less arbitrary than what you claim it to be.

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However, the tour-finishing Japanese leg had to appear on disc 4 already (rather than on disc 6) – simply because there were much less rarities from Japan than there were from Europe or the US … which both took up a whole disc, respectively.

You could have corrected me without being rude, but thanks for the information.

Sorry for the rudeness, RaspBerryGirlFriend. I found this new thread here once 20 replies had already been posted, and you were not the only person on the net implying that a label might slice up and thereby ruin an unknown new soundboard recording for what EVERYBODY would consider undefendable reasons. So that has been cleared up, then.

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According to everyone’s expectations, the current 60 or 70 replies mainly deal with prejudice or hatred against pressed boots again. Or envy aroused by a new set that obviously leaves so little to criticise that the bloodhounds of Princelandia suddenly feel the need to express their all-too-well-known collective resentments one more time.

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Rather than openly appreciating 8 hours of music from one of Prince’s best tours ever, mastered/remastered to this sound quality level for the first time. Pressed and distributed to folks who prefer pressed releases over sheer digital files, then distributed in stripped down form FOR FREE to those who wouldn’t pay for any creative product as long as they can avoid any such support by the process of copying. Well, to each his own.

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The funny part suddenly comes around when after the a-priori butchering the most die-hard fan-release lovers and boot haters suddenly can’t help but bring themselves to admitting that even THEY actually find dozens of songs on these 6 discs that they will keep. Quoting from what has been said by various folks in THIS thread alone so far:

So here’s the collection of quoted statements now:

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"It seems overall a really nice set"

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Seems like in the end, SAB didn’t f*** up all THAT badly this time around, huh? Except for the leeches side of it, of course, as they’re usually selling about 50 Million copies of each and every release.

I didn’t know I was playing in a cathedral. So you must be one of those few who are composing and spreading fan releases with your little organ, sorry, your mini violin, then?

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Just kidding. In the end, what would this place be without the devoted haters, keeping it spicy, so that everyone won’t fall asleep.

LOGIC said:

Sorry for the rudeness, RaspBerryGirlFriend. I found this new thread here once 20 replies had already been posted, and you were not the only person on the net implying that a label might slice up and thereby ruin an unknown new soundboard recording for what EVERYBODY would consider undefendable reasons. So that has been cleared up, then.

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According to everyone’s expectations, the current 60 or 70 replies mainly deal with prejudice or hatred against pressed boots again. Or envy aroused by a new set that obviously leaves so little to criticise that the bloodhounds of Princelandia suddenly feel the need to express their all-too-well-known collective resentments one more time.

.

Rather than openly appreciating 8 hours of music from one of Prince’s best tours ever, mastered/remastered to this sound quality level for the first time. Pressed and distributed to folks who prefer pressed releases over sheer digital files, then distributed in stripped down form FOR FREE to those who wouldn’t pay for any creative product as long as they can avoid any such support by the process of copying. Well, to each his own.

.

The funny part suddenly comes around when after the a-priori butchering the most die-hard fan-release lovers and boot haters suddenly can’t help but bring themselves to admitting that even THEY actually find dozens of songs on these 6 discs that they will keep. Quoting from what has been said by various folks in THIS thread alone so far:

That's okay, happy new year

The reason why I incorrectly posited that the soundboards might have been intentionally cut (with a possible release of the full soundboards being done at a later date to maximise profit) is that I've seen the same thing being done in the world of legitimate releases, for example I'm a fan of the Velvet Underground and last year uncomplete versions of several newly unearthed soundboards were included on the deluxe release of their third album. However this year a complete set of the full soundboards was issued under the title of The Complete Matrix Tapes, meaning that fans, having bought the box set last year mostly on the basis of the inclusion of the sections of the new soundboards are now being forced to pay for another box set if they want the uncut tapes. Now I'm not nearly as knowledgable about the world of Prince bootlegs as you clearly are, but I have known Sabotage to do slightly weird things in the past like including the lip-sync performance on American Bandstand on City Lights Vol. 1 which seems pointless without the video, and releasing one volume of their (usually pretty excellent) Purple Rush series which contained things like the full soundboard of the James Brown show where Prince made an appearance on one song, so in my mind it was not outside the realms of possibility that they might do something skeevy like I described with the VU box sets. But I was wrong so I guess it's a moot point really

Let's give this another twist, since all you seem to do is defend your (Sabotage's) little "business model".

Have you ever considered releasing something for free, like other fans do? No profit at all, just the digital files and not "the real deal"? Just out of love for the music and the P-community.

I'm curious how fans would react in such case.

LOGIC said:

So here’s the collection of quoted statements now:

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"It seems overall a really nice set"

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"soundboard versions of the Paris and Italy 88 concerts"

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"The sound is decent enough on the soundboards" (which, by the way, make up about 2/3 of the whole set)

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"however what we do have is is very good"

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"Anna Stesia/I Wish U Heaven-God Is Alive/Positivity from the Paris show are fantastic versions with a stunning quality!"

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"The Radio Commercials & MTV News Snippets -are cool & interesting"

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"The July 8 show sounds great"

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"I like the Lovesexy Commercial"

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"Milan is great, loving it! Head is a beast!"

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"There's some interesting gems included"

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"I appreciate this type of all inclusive representation of a tour"

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"I do enjoy the so-called "Camille's Story" from Hamburg (Disc 5)"

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"I found the last disc interesting and also enjoyed what exists of the Milan gig. Ditto the Paris gig"

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"I really don't have a problem with this release."

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"SAB's a great label that has released a lot of fantastic material"

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"I love it when people spread Sabotage's stuff around for free."

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"Let's face it, the majority of people on here bitching at Sabotage haven't paid for their releases in years, and rely on others to buy the product, rip the product, then share the product."

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"Much props to SAB for being a label devoted exclusively to Prince and dedicated to comprehensive curation and sourcing the best circulating quality available."

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Seems like in the end, SAB didn’t f*** up all THAT badly this time around, huh? Except for the leeches side of it, of course, as they’re usually selling about 50 Million copies of each and every release.

See there, several of these positive quotes are from me, but yet, any criticism I made upset some. Is it so hard to grasp that some of us like some elements of this boot and dislike others?

I'm sorry but I find all these arguments boring. I don't care if these are sold or given away - if someone had to purchase the original tapes and then spend hours mixing then I have no issue with them being sold - it is a free world and if you don't want to make a purchase then don't. I certainly didn't purchase but am happy they are now circulating. There are large international corporations with far worse business practices (many illegal in western countries) than SAB that is for sure - just remember that!

Now can we stick to the topic and discuss the material?

Both soundboard shows are great but Milan takes the cake - Prince is on fire and the Lovesexy band are really hitting their stride here. It really is so much fun hearing perfect quality recordings of these shows as alternatives to the Dortmund show which I know many of use here know perfectly note-for-note! The highlight of the Paris show for me is Anna Stesia, The Cross/I Wish U Heaven with funky God is Alive and the full versions of When 2 R In Love / Positivity.

Highlights of the Milan show are the opening Erotic City (love this so hard), the funk blistering Head and again I Wish U Heaven which is basically God is Alive. I also love having the intermission in perfect quality as I always found the Dortmund sound mix muddy and too much audience noise (old VHS tapes did not help).

Regarding the bonus tracks I like the sound quailty of the Rotterdam show (18 Aug 88), Both Oakland shows (10/11 Nov 88), Landover (11 Oct 88) and Houston sounds very good - I'd be interested in hearing these shows in this quality in full.

I agree with many that the Paisley Park rehearsal / Camden Show / Musical Portrait could have been left out along with the Trojan Horse tracks - these are just not needed. An ideal release for me would be both soundboard shows on their own disc and then another 1 or 2 bonus discs as extras as others have suggested also. If you are going to use the 'City Lights' name then stick to the City Lights format - pure soundboard shows each with their own 1 or 2 discs.

Looking back the Prince live tour history we now have a lot of gaps filled. Starting from 1980 we have EVERY tour in soundboard right up to 1993 - from here on things get patchy as Prince took more control of his business. Having the official the ONA tour live along with the aftershow is also great as many of the tours before this were average (excluding GOLD tour - would love this on soundboard).

mrmaxwell said, "[…] Musical Portrait could have been left out along with the Trojan Horse tracks - these are just not needed."

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Well, I always felt that the Trojan Horse ("Het Paard van Troje") gig was plagued by a serious amount of feedback. "Just My Imagination", one of my favorite tracks from that night, in particular.

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Trojan Horse is the ONLY full soundboard recording of an aftershow from that tour … and the feedback has been ELIMINATED for the tracks’ inclusion on "City Lights Remastered Vol. 7". So to my mind, these two songs were indeed "needed" somehow. There just wasn’t enough space to include the full concert in cleansed-up form, I suppose.

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But that’s just one of the many things that people would have noted 20 years ago. Not nowadays anymore.

By the way, I think it also makes sense that "Musical Portrait" has been included here, mrmaxwell. Simple reason is this:

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Everybody seems to be so fond of "The Ladder" from the L. A. soundcheck 1988. That particular song ends the "Musical Portrait" … but it’s a little bit LONGER here (!) than it actually was in that "Portrait" made/edited by its director Albert Magnoli.

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Obviously, those few extra moments come from another soundboard source of the same rehearsal. So as far as I know, this now represents the longest known take in circulation of "The Ladder" from soundboard from that very soundcheck. On CL-R7, this song even has its own subcode within the "Musical Portrait" now … for those folks who can jump to a subcode, while playing a CD, and not just go by regular "start IDs".

tongueinthecrease said:

Genuine question: is the normal price for boots around 50-100 dollars?

Depends on how you define normal.

bluegangsta said:

KingSausage said:

LOGIC said:

So here’s the collection of quoted statements now:

.

.

"It seems overall a really nice set"

.

Seems like in the end, SAB didn’t f*** up all THAT badly this time around, huh? Except for the leeches side of it, of course, as they’re usually selling about 50 Million copies of each and every release.

@LOGIC

Thanks for explanations and details.

But just to specify, in my case you are talking with someone that TODAY AS 20 YEARS AGO prefers to track down factory pressed CDs than digital files, even if it means to pay for them and it also means to be called "stupid" from a lot of people here that unfortunately can't accept that in the "digital free music era" there are still "dinosaurs" like me who simply prefers CDs to MP3 for their collection.

See, the fact is that when a new CD release comes out, I check the tracklist to see if it is of my interest or not.

And even after your explanations I still don't feel the need to buy this, because what I not have of the audio tracks is not so fundamental to me and I can live happy with what I already have, saving my money for other releases, like a possible "BFTP 4.0" with the original D&P conf and other studio material.

Life is made of choices.

tongueinthecrease said:

Genuine question: is the normal price for boots around 50-100 dollars?

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You are too far away from the source as it appears.

Paying 10 euros per disc or less is more reasonable.

And no, I cannot hook you up.

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I will not mention that this ratio reflects a more correct USD valuation.

KingSausage said:

There's no irony. Never pay for bootlegs. I would gladly pay PRINCE if he released this stuff. Until then, I get it all for free. If I get it for free from one of the awesome fans who do this as a labor of love, that's great. If I get it for free from some bootleg "label" that's also great. I love it when people spread Sabotage's stuff around for free. Making a buck off taking Prince's music and selling it for high prices because it has pressed discs and artwork (oooooooh!) is a shameful, shitty business.

I wouldn't give a dime if Prince released this or any other live material. It would be heavily overdubbed. While SAB in this case, released it as how it was recorded. Not to mention the editing by Prince. It is in anyway beyond borders how a live performer like Prince has actually haven't released a proper live set since his world live breakthrough in 1985, when the world saw his Syracuse performance.

By the way, you shouldn't blame the people behind a bootleg label. When it becomes to soundboard recordings, the one to blame is one of the ''inner circle'' from Prince himself.

udo said:

In reply #29 Monsieur Gardener said about CL-R7 "it’s still a mess".

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If you can only look at a multi-disc tracklist from the perspective of a housekeeper, then it’s certainly no surprise someone would come to such a "verdict". A new Prince album can contain recent material along with older recordings. A "greatest hits" or "best of" album can be – and usually IS – compiled from stuff that came out over a course of decades.

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In the case of CL-R7, the concept is easy to get for those who take a closer look. Obviously, the idea was to present ALL the rare stuff, one-off performances, live duets ALONG WITH two, unknown, exclusive, excellent-sounding soundboard shows from ONE era on six discs.

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Each disc is filled to the max, all songs are mastered carefully and re-mastered with even more care than on ANY previous release for the tiniest details. The soundboard material is kept apart from audience sources, the overall chronology is what – to my mind – makes good sense: tour rehearsals first, then the European gigs, and eventually two and a half discs with all the live rarities from Europe, the US and Japan.

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Someone in here repeatedly called the printed parts "shitty". Isn’t it funny? You’re praising non-physical audio "releases" by "fans" for whatever degree of quality or "fan" input. And when you’re looking at those things, you suddenly realize that each end every one of them misses any sort of serious documentation regarding its audio content. A bit like a book without any pages, isn’t it?

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CL-R7, however, combines about 100 pictures that are mostly presented in an immediate context with its 20 pages of liner notes, covering ALL the relevant dates and events from a whole Prince era. Just like all the previous volumes did too, concerning each Prince era/tour up until "Lovesexy" (1988/89).

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Frankly, while you still seem to consider ONLY "fan releases" some sort of "labour of love", I wonder why all these "fans" never take the time to put together and provide the community with something that has a little more substance. For as Little Richard said, "a little bit of somethin’ beats a whole lotta nothin’."