LOGIC said:

A label that not just "produces" digital files ONLY, but "the real deal" instead.

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Didn't stop your "label" in the past from downloading from those "fan outlets" and then re-selling them as "the real deal," though, did it?

TheDigitalGardener said:

LOGIC said:

A label that not just "produces" digital files ONLY, but "the real deal" instead.

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Didn't stop your "label" in the past from downloading from those "fan outlets" and then re-selling them as "the real deal," though, did it?

Truth.

Someone’s inability to dig the concept behind a new release is his or her own problem. Contrary to Mr. Gardener, quite a few people will agree that over a course of 20+ years more relevant and EXCLUSIVE live material has come out on SAB than on any other label.

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The quality of the whole 40-disc "City Lights Remastered" series will continue to speak for itself. Come back with something greater, then dare speaking up again.

KingSausage said:

I feel like if you're in the business of making bootlegs for money you only have a tiny, minuscule right to complain when people say this or that about your releases. Also, I'm glad I found this release for free. I hope hardly anyone pays for it.

Well said!! When it comes to official releases I always prefer to purchase a physical copy. For bootlegs though, I'm happy to get a free digital copy. I haven't purchased a physical bootleg since I got my first CD burner back in '98. Bootlegs are meant to be traded and shared and digital copies are the way to go.

Thanks to all those that upload and share bootleg material for free!!

LOGIC said:

LOGIC said:

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The quality of the whole 40-disc "City Lights Remastered" series will continue to speak for itself. Come back with something greater, then dare speaking up again.

Tell me Mr Sabotage. How many of those 40 discs were created using releases from "fan outlets?" Hell, your "label" couldn't even think up it's own title for your "remasters."

Happy New Year!

LOGIC said:

Someone’s inability to dig the concept behind a new release is his or her own problem. Contrary to Mr. Gardener, quite a few people will agree that over a course of 20+ years more relevant and EXCLUSIVE live material has come out on SAB than on any other label.

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The quality of the whole 40-disc "City Lights Remastered" series will continue to speak for itself. Come back with something greater, then dare speaking up again.

Some people dig comprehensively currated collections like this one, some people dig complete shows only. If you can't get that concept, that might be your own problem.

Can we assume from your statements that you are in some way invested with SAB? Sure looks that way.

SAB's a great label that has released a lot of fantastic material and I will continue to collect free digital copies of their boots as long as I can find them or someone to share them or trade them with me. But, they have also been known to borrow from other labels and swipe from free fan releases. Pretending this isn't so is just silliness. They weren't even the first to release a "City Lights" collection. I still have the original 11CD set from the mid-90s which was put out by a bootleg label called Superhero Records. SAB borrowed that title (which was already familiar to fans) for their own releases, no?

Bottom line, no matter how many great boots get released by SAB or EYE or whomever, those labels will never get as much respect from fans as the free labels like FBG and others. And this is rightfully so. Just sayin'...

LOGIC said:

@TheDigitalGardener (reply #11): Many of the tracks included here were much shorter than the usual 3:30 min pop song. So this lead to an average 28 tracks per disc here. Is that a reason to complain nowadays? The sheer amount of material and sources alone might look a little crammed on a single back inlay.

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However, each track on each disc has the "CD-Text" feature, including song title, concert location, date etc., so to avoid a "headache", just skip reading the inlay and look at the display of your player. The material stems from more than 30 sources. Many of those come from analog audio tapes, from various digital files, from videos etc. Why should SAB skip a rare track just because they once released it decades ago in the context of a full show? It’s about 2 NEW LOVESEXY SOUNDBOARD SHOWS and about ALL THE RARE STUFF from the whole freakin’ LOVESEXY WORLD TOUR here! Is that too hard to accept?

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ALL of these tracks were mastered one by one to eliminate any weaknesses (hiss, drop-outs, even screams, whistles, feedback etc.) that may have been and often actually WERE annoying in the original source material. And there were ENDLESS flaws especially in the tour highlights used on discs 5 and 6 – which have been taken care of for the first time here.

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Sounds were now assimilated, orders of tracks were arranged in a way that would appear natural or that would provide the best possible "flow", given the amount of different sources and sounds. If the track listing looks like a "disgrace" to you, then how about finding a free copy of this release somewhere? You might have a little less to complain once you’ve actually HEARD the item you’re commenting on so loudly here. I can tell you that this release sounds much better than what you seem to IMAGINE from simply being unable to appreciate a "tour anthology" approach, coming from a label, rather than a "fan" outlet. A label that not just "produces" digital files ONLY, but "the real deal" instead.

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That said, if you’re so keen on reading, rather than listening, why not mention the 20-page booklet with over 100 pictures from that era and with about all key information you could ask for while you’re listening to 8 hours of live music from Prince’s biggest world tour to date?

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@mrmaxwell (reply #23): Please be aware of the fact that the so-called "samples" (meaning individual songs) on discs 5 and 6 have undergone dozens of hours of studio time, so in many cases you will be surprised how flawed the original sources actually were. "Blues In C" from Rotterdam 1988 with Candy Dulfer comes to mind, for example. This song was so plagued with screams and whistles that SAB not only improved the sound overall (like they did on ALL songs on this set), but they actually retouched those noises from the recording. Each and every loud scream or whistle was removed or at least reduced drastically wherever the latest software tools allowed interventions of this kind. And that had to be done on MANY of the audience-sourced titles on discs 5 and 6.

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While this procedure won’t turn an audience source into a soundboard, it most certainly DOES improve the the enjoyment of rarities that were mostly recorded with amateur equipment some 27 years ago.

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Now back to the usual badly-informed and lame bashing of traditional boot releases that we’ve all come to expect here.

great comment, thanks to you!!

> SAB borrowed that title (which was already familiar to fans) for their own releases, no?

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No, they didn’t. In fact, the original 11CD project was still unnamed when SUPERHERO asked SAB* for a proposal concerning a fitting title. SUPERHERO gladly accepted … and later derived the title "Studio Nights" from it. Go figure.

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Like I said above, so much rambling going on in here by folks who claim to know everything. Trying to put down folks who are providing THEM with new material every once in a while. Disgusting.

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* = At the time a label not active under that moniker yet, but dedicated to P already.

LOGIC said:

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Like I said above, so much rambling going on in here by folks who claim to know everything. Trying to put down folks who are providing THEM with new material every once in a while. Disgusting.

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You're taking comments WAAAAY too personally. I won't speak for anyone else, but, I'm not trying to "put down" anyone. Much props to SAB for being a label devoted exclusively to Prince and dedicated to comprehensive curation and sourcing the best circulating quality available.

That said, some perspective is in order. While SAB has certainly demonstrated a love for Prince's musical legacy, the fan labels that offer up their hard work for free to other fans will always get more respect from the trader community than for-profit labels.

It is what it is. Unless LOGIC=SABOTAGE, there is really no need to take unfavorable comments so personally. It's not a good look.

djThunderfunk said:

Bottom line, no matter how many great boots get released by SAB or EYE or whomever, those labels will never get as much respect from fans as the free labels like FBG and others. And this is rightfully so. Just sayin'...

And free labels themselves have borrowed from other releases too. Is it the fact they are free which makes their behaviour more tolerable?

Let's face it, the majority of people on here bitching at Sabotage haven't paid for their releases in years, and rely on others to buy the product, rip the product, then share the product. So, to them, it should be classed as a free release.

KnowThySelfie said:

KingSausage said:

KnowThySelfie said:

And free labels themselves have borrowed from other releases too. Is it the fact they are free which makes their behaviour more tolerable?

Let's face it, the majority of people on here bitching at Sabotage haven't paid for their releases in years, and rely on others to buy the product, rip the product, then share the product. So, to them, it should be classed as a free release.

Yes, it is more tolerable because they're not trying to profit off it.

Which, I imagine, goes directly into their next release, and so on, and so on. A relatively small number of discs being pressed, along with associated printing of booklets, and shipping costs, etc must eat up the majority of the cost.

They aren't living like 50 Cent on your money.

Let's not act like the behaviour of free fan release labels has been all sweetness and light, simply because they are free.

You don't want to pay for a pressed release? No big deal - wait a few days and it will appear online. By that time, it will be free.

My review of a free digital copy that was kindly shared with me (Thanks!!):

I'm one of those that prefers individual complete releases to comprehensive collections. I personally don't see the value in mixing up rehearsals & concerts, much less including clips from award shows or MTV, so, from that perspective...

To me, City Lights is for collecting live shows from the various tours, keep the rehearsals for a separate release

The Radio Commercials & MTV News Snippets -are cool & interesting, but set them aside as bonus tracks somewhere else.

The July 8 show sounds great, haven't bothered yet to compare quality with previous releases.

Set Kurt Loder & Housequake from L.A. aside as bonus tracks somewhere (else).

The Camden snippets are a fucking mess. what a waste. Just. Gross!

The audio from A Musical Portrait, the Cat clip... Why?!? (Don't answer that LOGIC, I'm being rhetorical).

I like the Lovesexy Commercial, sounds kind of "fan-made" to me though, but cool. I'd still leave it as a bonus on an outtake set or something. (Thanks again for that info BigChick!!)

Milan is great, loving it!! Right up to parts that are mixed with rehearsals. I hate that crap. Would rather have the original flawed recordings or nothing at all. Deleted those 3 tracks immediately. Head is a beast though!!

The rest of disc 4 is not interesting to me. I get the concept, but don't want to listen to these tracks compiled in this manner. I'll stick with the individual shows.

Same for disc 5 and disc 6. There's some interesting gems included, but it all just seems bloated to me.

Overall feelings: I still have my original 11CD City Lights set, for which I sold a stack of CDs, records & VHS tapes to get enough $ to buy & I still cherish that set even though the material has been rereleased in improved quality in the years since. To me the moniker "City Lights" will always represent a collection of soundboard recordings of Prince's live tours. The mixing & matching of sources and qualities and inclusion of various one off tracks, snippets and TV clips should be something else. I appreciate this type of all inclusive representation of a tour but it's just not "City Lights" to me.

In my not-so-humble opinion of course...

[Edited 12/31/15 11:18am]

I do enjoy the so-called "Camille's Story" from Hamburg (Disc 5). If I've ever heard that before, I don't remember it. Prince is hilarious with this version of the story of the Black Album. Gonna have to keep this track on the iTunes for sure!!

I have it:

BoraBora said:

sulls said:

The one thing I REALLY wanted was the entire Happy Birthday to Cat in soundboard, but it's just the snip from the video. Bummer....

This new set seems to have the same Camden Palace tracks as "Driving To Midnight Mess".

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AKA: the purple rain remaster has the same tracks as the old purple rain album....

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Why is it called a remaster?

LOGIC said:

However, the tour-finishing Japanese leg had to appear on disc 4 already (rather than on disc 6) – simply because there were much less rarities from Japan than there were from Europe or the US … which both took up a whole disc, respectively.

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That is logic. Thanks.

KingSausage said:

Sabotage and other barnacles on the taint of Prince fandom should come back with a business model that doesn't involve being a vulture or a leech making money off someone else's art,

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WHahahaahaahahaa!!!

You can choose not to buy the discs.

And then you can complain about the Prince man not releasing stuff like that.

You can not complain about others buying b00tz when you chose not too.

Did you do the math about them pressings these days?

Do not talk about the pricing on the US market but a trad close to the source of either SAB, the belgian eye people, or any label that caters to niche markets.

udo said:

KingSausage said:

udo said:

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WHahahaahaahahaa!!!

You can choose not to buy the discs.

And then you can complain about the Prince man not releasing stuff like that.

You can not complain about others buying b00tz when you chose not too.

Did you do the math about them pressings these days?

Do not talk about the pricing on the US market but a trad close to the source of either SAB, the belgian eye people, or any label that caters to niche markets.

I don't give two shits if Eye or Sabotage makes any money at all. They are lice feeding off another person's art. I love downloading their shit for free and not paying a cent for it. Fuck 'em. What are they mad about? They're thieves in the first place, with no right to complain about anything. And the pressed disc thing is so laughable. Yes, wow. They sell discs with shitty art on them, packaged with booklets chock full of other shitty art. Yippee!

Oy, the irony.

KingSausage said:

I don't give two shits if Eye or Sabotage makes any money at all. They are lice feeding off another person's art.

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Your logic is weird.

If they do make money you could be right.

If they hardly make money then what food is left that you mention?

Besides: P is hanging on to his imagined money and thus does not provide these or similar goods.

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I love downloading their shit for free and not paying a cent for it.

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So you cannot complain. You are the free shit type:

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Fuck 'em.

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As I said.

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What are they mad about?

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Who said that who is mad?

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Yippee!

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It takes a certain taste to respect material works .

udo said:

KingSausage said:

There's no irony. Never pay for bootlegs. I would gladly pay PRINCE if he released this stuff. Until then, I get it all for free. If I get it for free from one of the awesome fans who do this as a labor of love, that's great. If I get it for free from some bootleg "label" that's also great. I love it when people spread Sabotage's stuff around for free. Making a buck off taking Prince's music and selling it for high prices because it has pressed discs and artwork (oooooooh!) is a shameful, shitty business.

I bought tons of bootlegs back in '87-'98. It was worth it as the option was tape trading & every copy was degraded a little bit more than the last. Today every copy is the same and the hobby thrives without the need for a for-profit middle-man. Bootleg labels aren't much different from official labels, and fans no longer need them. Fans can get boots to other fans directly and immediately.


Some on here seem to be materially invested in the bootleg "business". Just sayin'...

djThunderfunk said:

KingSausage said:

There's no irony. Never pay for bootlegs. I would gladly pay PRINCE if he released this stuff. Until then, I get it all for free. If I get it for free from one of the awesome fans who do this as a labor of love, that's great. If I get it for free from some bootleg "label" that's also great. I love it when people spread Sabotage's stuff around for free. Making a buck off taking Prince's music and selling it for high prices because it has pressed discs and artwork (oooooooh!) is a shameful, shitty business.

Some on here seem to be materially invested in the bootleg "business". Just sayin'...

People with an opposing view to yours are "materially invested in the bootleg business"?

Wierd logic, but okay.