pray4rain said:

To quote Allan Leeds (and he, for one, should know):"in the end it was all about the money".

That might well be true, and I respect his views, but if Prince wasn't also about the music he wouldn't play the way he plays.

NouveauDance said:

The continuing American obsession with the word Communism is beyond bizarre.

pray4rain said:

To quote Allan Leeds (and he, for one, should know):"in the end it was all about the money".

While I'm quite sure that Prince wants to maximise revenue from the things he does do, there's an awful lot more things he could be doing if he was all about the money. For starters he'd be putting out remasters and selling his live shows on his web site.

To even suggest he only cares for money is just wrong.

If Prince was really all about money, trying to be "The King of Pop" and interested in having the most mainstream commercial success he could possibly have and winning as many Grammy Awards as he possibly could then he would have made his follow ups to his biggest success, the Purple Rain album, sound just like the Purple Rain album does. Instead he took his music in different directions with his subsequent albums Around the World in a Day, etc. because he's interested more in music as art, rather than how big he is on the pop charts. He never would have made albums like Dirty Mind and the Black Album, etc. with songs like Head and Bob George if he just cared about having commercal hit pop songs played on the radio. He never would have changed music directions away from the Purple Rain sound if he just cared about money: commercial success.

Prince explained in an interview with the Los Angeles Haerald Examiner in March, 1981, "I wasn't gearing myself toward anything except my own personal satifaction."
Prince said in an interview with Melody Maker published on June 6th, 1981, "You say to yourself, 'Well, do I just wanna be real big or do I wanna do something I'll be proud of and really enjoy playing?'"
Prince explained in an interview with the Los Angeles Times published on November 21st, 1982, "I usually write hits for other people, and those are the songs I throw away and don't really care for. I usually change directions with each record, which is a problem in some respects, but rewarding and fulfilling for me."
Prince explained further in an interview with Rolling Stone published on September 12th, 1985, "You know how easy it would have been to open Around the World in a Day with the guitar solo that's on the end of 'Let's Go Crazy'? You know how easy it would have been to just put it in a different key? That would have shut everybody up who said the album wasn't half as powerful. I don't want to make an album like the earlier ones. Wouldn't it be cool to be able to put your albums back to back and not get bored, you dig?
More than anything else, I try not to repeat myself.
I think that's the problem with the music industry today. When a person does get a hit, they try to do it again the same way. I don't think I've ever done that. I write all the time and cut all the time. I want to show you the archives, where all my old stuff is. There's tons of music I've recorded there. I have the follow-up album to 1999. I could put it all together and play it for you, and you would go 'Yeah!' And I could put it out, and it would probably sell what 1999 did. But I always try to do something different and conquer new ground."

http://princetext.tripod....one85.html

Prince said in an interview with Rolling Stone published in August, 1990, "I'm always going forward, always trying to surprise myself. It's not about hits. I knew how to make hits by my second album."
http://princetext.tripod....one90.html

[Edited 10/17/13 3:43am]

rudeboynpg said:

If Prince was really all about money, trying to be "The King of Pop" and interested in having the most mainstream commercial success he could possibly have and winning as many Grammy Awards as he possibly could then he would have made his follow ups to his biggest success, the Purple Rain album, sound just like the Purple Rain album does. Instead he took his music in different directions with his subsequent albums Around the World in a Day, etc. because he's interested more in music as art, rather than how big he is on the pop charts. He never would have made albums like Dirty Mind and the Black Album, etc. with songs like Head and Bob George if he just cared about having commercal hit pop songs played on the radio. He never would have changed music dirrections away from the Purple Rain sound if he just carried about money: commercial success.

Prince explained in an interview with the Los Angeles Haerald Examiner in March, 1981, "I wasn't gearing myself toward anything except my own personal satifaction."
Prince said in an interview with Melody Maker published on June 6th, 1981, "You say to yourself, 'Well, do I just wanna be real big or do I wanna do something I'll be proud of and really enjoy playing?'"
Prince explained in an interview with the Los Angeles Times published on November 21st, 1982, "I usually write hits for other people, and those are the songs I throw away and don't really care for. I usually change directions with each record, which is a problem in some respects, but rewarding and fulfilling for me."
Prince explained further in an interview with Rolling Stone published on September 12th, 1985, "You know how easy it would have been to open Around the World in a Day with the guitar solo that's on the end of 'Let's Go Crazy'? You know how easy it would have been to just put it in a different key? That would have shut everybody up who said the album wasn't half as powerful. I don't want to make an album like the earlier ones. Wouldn't it be cool to be able to put your albums back to back and not get bored, you dig?
More than anything else, I try not to repeat myself.
I think that's the problem with the music industry today. When a person does get a hit, they try to do it again the same way. I don't think I've ever done that. I write all the time and cut all the time. I want to show you the archives, where all my old stuff is. There's tons of music I've recorded there. I have the follow-up album to 1999. I could put it all together and play it for you, and you would go 'Yeah!' And I could put it out, and it would probably sell what 1999 did. But I always try to do something different and conquer new ground."

http://princetext.tripod....one85.html

Prince said in an interview with Rolling Stone published in August, 1990, "I'm always going forward, always trying to surprise myself. It's not about hits. I knew how to make hits by my second album."
http://princetext.tripod....one90.html

[Edited 10/17/13 2:34am]

Sounds good quotes there. Thanks!

NouveauDance said:

The continuing American obsession with the word Communism is beyond bizarre.

America is a communist country.

The lack of freedom, the amount of centralised control over way too many things, the erosion of the middle class... Etc.

Yes, you have to look beyond the veil.

SuperSoulFighter said:

Prince is all about CONTROL!

Prince needs control to have the creative freedom to do what he wants to do. His managers and Warner Brothers wouldn't give him that freedom anymore by 1993, with creative disputes about the NPG, etc., Prince, while under contract, was at the mercy of the company. To them, Prince was just a bundle of money for them to make off of him. So Prince had fired his managers and was trying to get out of his contract with Warner Brothers. Prince was deeply offended that they would interfere with his creative decisions. It's very similar to Jimi Hendrix's creative disputes with his manager Mike Jeffery about the Band of Gypsys, etc. Jimi was trying to get out of his contract and wanted more creative freedom musically.

Tempest said:

There is WAY more good in capitalism than bad.

*

As I stated previously, without capitalism and good business people, there wouldn't be any jobs.

*

Btw, the financial crisis is due to EXCESSIVE government involvement in capital markets.

*

I won't get into all that because that discussion belongs in P & R.

NouveauDance said:

If he was all about the money, you'd be hearing his music all over adverts, product endorsements. There'd be no quirky instrumental albums and religious clap-trap. He would've released an album every 3/4 years in the 80s and milked the fucking shit out of them. Forget career suicide like changing his stage name and doing drag.

That.

Prince is all about the music.

He wants to be independent. One can only be independent if you have money to pay for your own independance and hire people to convey your music.


I'm glad he does not take huge risks with expensive tours, but just makes sure that he can pay himself, his staff and have a great time while playing. Because in that way he can't loose his money, and stay independent in the future.


It's not that easy to distinct the expert jobs from those that you can trust to your friends, so you can help them out. Some tasks really need skilled people, with a talent for the specific demands of that job. And yes, sometimes staff needs to be checked for integrity. It's a dog eat dog world. And dogs love to eat from rich people. It seems he is becoming more independent of the pressure of friends too. He hires quality for the pivotal jobs and also has friends doing jobs for him.


I get the impression he becomes more independent of religeous or wordly pressure and threats.

(If you act like that God will not be pleased or if you act like that, people will not be pleased)

He varies his themes. His mind seems to be more independant. He can make "Breakfast can wait" and know that does not make him one iota less spiritual or close to God at all. I am very happy that his spirituality is not governed by other humans who think they can speak for God. And I'm just as happy that he seems he becomes more independent from the everlasting critics or yes people.

Prince his strategy paid off. He is free as a bird to make the music he wants. He apreciates input, but knows its just that; input. I really dig his output at the moment. It does seem more and more purely himself more than ever.

The way Prince gives us little presents as he has last year, shows that he starts to apreciate his fans more. He knows we will pay for his cd when released. And in the meantime he'll give is snippets of what he's working on. That is all about music, not about money.

I think it's amazing that he is the big star he is, for so many decades, and still surprises with his music. Either good or bad, I really love it how it's never the same.

Prince is not perfect, but I have great respect for how he has handled himself over the years. And for his music of course.

[Edited 10/20/13 8:49am]

I think he is all about owning the rights to his music, intellectual property, etc, at whatever cost.

I think the more money he was being paid, the more he wondered about how much money he was generating and the more he realized how much money he wasn't receiving based on percentages of his contract. If you generate 1 million bucks and receive $300K, it may be that you are not as aware of 'others using you' as you would be when you generate 100 million bucks and receive 3 million.

udo said:

NouveauDance said:

The continuing American obsession with the word Communism is beyond bizarre.

America is a communist country.

The lack of freedom, the amount of centralised control over way too many things, the erosion of the middle class... Etc.

Yes, you have to look beyond the veil.

America is a Fascist country.

Big difference.

if you follow his career path..it is cystal clear it wasnt all about the money..prince became the biggest pop star on the planet in 1984 with purple rain..he had a huge number one single..massive number one album and had a number one film...he was at the top of the mountain as he has mentioned himself..now he could easily have milked this huge following for all it was worth..release more singles...do a world tour promoting the purple rain brand to death and leaving 3 or 4 years gap before releasing another purple rain style album which would have sold by the bucketload...like michael jackson did between thriller and bad.

.

but he didnt do that . he decided that he didnt like being at the top of the mountain. his artistic vision was more important to him . so he did what was unheard of for major music acts . he released an album only 9 MONTHS after his last. a total departure from his last album . a musicial left turn...with no single and very little promotion for it .

.

this..for me..is the defining moment of his career..can you imagine the faces of those warner brothers big wigs when prince unveiled his follow up album to "purple rain" at the preview listening while...seemingly..playing with a flower ? ..this was a big part of why he was so great in the 80s...why he was soo much better than any other artist around this time . because the most important thing to him was his music...not the money...money is important to him..as it is to all of us..but it was not the driving force in what he did...

.

'is prince' not 'was prince'?

i think he is more aware of how he can manage his intellectual property rights and if there is money to be made from any of his creativity, why should somebody else make money from it (because of his ignorance of business practices, old and new).

the time taken in managing your large catalog of work and protecting it must have an effect on the artistic mind. one minute taking a phone call on royalties from youtube plays and then, an email about what action to take to sue dailymotion because of somebody playing lets go crazy on a trombone, while instead you could be writing a great new song.

its the control which has taken control of him. the control has always been there in his music. the strict parts layered, each adding to the whole, with the vocals emotionally distracting you from the complex, subtle, organisation beneath.

He's clearly not all about the money but he has repeatedly demonstrated an obsession with the thought that other people are making money off his name.

only one thing mattered to christopher .. money

Tempest said:

I certainly can't get inside Prince's mind to determine why he's made some of the decisions he's made or if he's about the money or not. Not for me to say and I'm not going to try. I'm certainly not angry or irritated about it though (like some fans you mentioned) because it's his life and his career.

*

However, that being said, IMO, given Prince's gifts, persona & talent, he certainly could have done a lot of things over the years that would have made a lot more money. It isn't so much whether or not he's about the money as much as it is being all he can be or trying to reach his full potential. He's extremely gifted and that comes from God. Money isn't the be all and end all however there are a lot of wonderful & constructive things you can do with money if you're blessed with it. To me, it's all about being a good steward with the gifts, talents & wealth you're blessed with in life. We are accountable to God for what we do and do not do with our talents.

*

At the end of the day, what really matters is integrity and follow through. When you promise something to someone, then it needs to be delivered. It's important to be a person of your word. I think that's really where some fans have gotten angry and frustrated over the years. I don't know why Prince has taken that approach (that follow through doesn't matter) but it matters a GREAT deal to God and to those to whom the promises have been made. If you're not going to follow through with something, than don't offer or promise it. It's really that simple.

*

Prince (if you happen to read this), you're a very gifted, talented & blessed individual!

and a butthole (control freak muting other peoples video arsehole)!!!!

jaawwnn said:

He's clearly not all about the money but he has repeatedly demonstrated an obsession with the thought that other people are making money off his name.

i think it is more about the control here than the money...he is a control freak...he doesnt want anyone doing their own thing.

NouveauDance said:

If he was all about the money, you'd be hearing his music all over adverts, product endorsements. There'd be no quirky instrumental albums and religious clap-trap. He would've released an album every 3/4 years in the 80s and milked the fucking shit out of them. Forget career suicide like changing his stage name and doing drag.

We're not talking about 1980s Prince, back when he was reined in by managers and still had band members around that stood up to him. We're talking about the guy that took over somewhere in the mid-1990s.

The guy who shopped an album to Clive Davis so he could have a Santana-size hit (while having bitched for years about WB's non-existing meddling with his recorded output).

The guy who does everything on the cheap yet demands premium prices from his fans.

The guy who launched subscription website after subscription website and never fulfilled his obligations (yes , even year one NPGMC).

The guy who released a live album and removed most of the cover songs so he did not have to pay others royalties, thus butchering the recording.

Oh, and he did sell his songs to commercials. Remember LRC?

Why are there no remasters etc? Because WB would get a cut. Simple as that.

rudeboynpg said:

SuperSoulFighter said:

Prince is all about CONTROL!

Prince needs control to have the creative freedom to do what he wants to do. His managers and Warner Brothers wouldn't give him that freedom anymore by 1993, with creative disputes about the NPG, etc., Prince, while under contract, was at the mercy of the company. To them, Prince was just a bundle of money for them to make off of him. So Prince had fired his managers and was trying to get out of his contract with Warner Brothers. Prince was deeply offended that they would interfere with his creative decisions.

This is such BS. WB had lost MILLIONS on his vanity label. Also, there's his $100 million contract, which he signed AGAINST THE ADVICE OF HIS ENTOURAGE because a) it would be "the biggest ever", b) it promised him tons of money (in exchange for him working his ass off, but isn't that reasonable?), and c) it came with a fancy VP position (which was an empty title). Did WB screw him over? You could say that, you could also point out that a grown man ignored the advice of his peers and instead followed his greed and vanity.

And of course the first album to be released under that contract failed to achive the required goal: sell 5 million copies. An almost unobtainable goal, unless Prince would have either come up with a genius pop record like Purple Rain (unlikely, especially since that record was part of a huge campaign that also included a very succesful movie), or worked his ass off like he did in making D&P sell 5+ million copies, i.e. release a thouroughly commercial album and then tour it for months on end. But that's hard, so Prince went the usual Prince way: stomped his little feet, and blamed WB for all his failures. Just like he later blamed others for his failures (Rave is a prime example) and took all credit for successes.

WB were exceptionally friendly towards Prince, and even released him from his contract when he delivered two archive albums instead of three "fresh" albums. Name me one recording artist who was given as much freedom as Prince: WB financed his movies and allowed him to go elsewhere if they did not wanted to get involved (SOTT live), allowed him to pick singles, and let's not forget they destroyed MILLIONS of already pressed copies of an album that was literally being shipped to record stores because Prince had had a bad drug trip and gotten a "religious vision".

TheEnglishGent said:

pray4rain said:

To quote Allan Leeds (and he, for one, should know):"in the end it was all about the money".

While I'm quite sure that Prince wants to maximise revenue from the things he does do, there's an awful lot more things he could be doing if he was all about the money. For starters he'd be putting out remasters and selling his live shows on his web site.

To even suggest he only cares for money is just wrong.

Remasters ain't happening because WB are still in the mix. Live shows for download ain't happening because dude is a clueless fuckwit when it comes to the Internet.

blackbob said:

if you follow his career path..it is cystal clear it wasnt all about the money..prince became the biggest pop star on the planet in 1984 with purple rain..he had a huge number one single..massive number one album and had a number one film...he was at the top of the mountain as he has mentioned himself..now he could easily have milked this huge following for all it was worth..release more singles...do a world tour promoting the purple rain brand to death and leaving 3 or 4 years gap before releasing another purple rain style album which would have sold by the bucketload...like michael jackson did between thriller and bad.

.

but he didnt do that . he decided that he didnt like being at the top of the mountain. his artistic vision was more important to him . so he did what was unheard of for major music acts . he released an album only 9 MONTHS after his last. a total departure from his last album . a musicial left turn...with no single and very little promotion for it .

.

this..for me..is the defining moment of his career..can you imagine the faces of those warner brothers big wigs when prince unveiled his follow up album to "purple rain" at the preview listening while...seemingly..playing with a flower ? ..this was a big part of why he was so great in the 80s...why he was soo much better than any other artist around this time . because the most important thing to him was his music...not the money...money is important to him..as it is to all of us..but it was not the driving force in what he did...

.

The simple fact that you had to go back to something that happened NEARLY THIRTY YEARS AGO and along the way ignored the mountain of evidence from more recent years shows how vapid your argument is.

BartVanHemelen said:

NouveauDance said:

If he was all about the money, you'd be hearing his music all over adverts, product endorsements. There'd be no quirky instrumental albums and religious clap-trap. He would've released an album every 3/4 years in the 80s and milked the fucking shit out of them. Forget career suicide like changing his stage name and doing drag.

We're not talking about 1980s Prince, back when he was reined in by managers and still had band members around that stood up to him. We're talking about the guy that took over somewhere in the mid-1990s.

The guy who shopped an album to Clive Davis so he could have a Santana-size hit (while having bitched for years about WB's non-existing meddling with his recorded output).

The guy who does everything on the cheap yet demands premium prices from his fans.

The guy who launched subscription website after subscription website and never fulfilled his obligations (yes , even year one NPGMC).

The guy who released a live album and removed most of the cover songs so he did not have to pay others royalties, thus butchering the recording.

Oh, and he did sell his songs to commercials. Remember LRC?

Why are there no remasters etc? Because WB would get a cut. Simple as that.

I don't belive Nouveau is "talking abot 1980s Prince" when he is referring to quirky instrumental albums, religious clap-trap and changing his stage name.

Just because you can find instances where money obviously mattered, doesn't mean that it's the only thing that matters all the time.

If Prince was about the money, there never would have been an NPG Fam Club providing access to the best concert tickets.

If he as about the money, he wouldn't open the doors of Paisley and give us access to live music.

Is he about love of music, yes.

Quite frankly, when the music is spot on, it is all about dispelling the darkness of music where a lot of the Earthly music has tried to go being used as avenues of evil. Has Prince done this, i can't see it.

It's about the Love and Light.

Music can be an enabler of traveling from world to world, dimension to dimension. From the higher planes to here, it isn't about the money. Money just does not exist there. It is all about the Love.

paulludvig said:

I don't belive Nouveau is "talking abot 1980s Prince" when he is referring to quirky instrumental albums, religious clap-trap and changing his stage name.

The thing is, something like N.E.W.S. isn't a quirky instrumental album in Prince's mind, but an Important Statement From An Important Artist and those sell millions of records like Miles Davis' Kind Of Blue etc. Except that of course, it is nothing like that album and it is just Prince being delusional. He believes his own hype and that's why he releases such subpar crap.

Just because you can find instances where money obviously mattered, doesn't mean that it's the only thing that matters all the time.

No, but it is an important factor and anyone who claims it isn't is simply wrong.