SuperSoulFighter said:

Is everyone missing the obvious here? Look closely at the . The cross is right in the middle of it. He never stopped wearing it. He just "customized" it.

Yes, and it's also an ankh-- the O+> - type Egyptian symbol, which is part of what JW's are objecting to when they object to the use of the cross as a symbol, saying that it's a way of hiding Egyptian paganism (as well as all sorts of ancient European paganism, and on and on). Tie in the fact that a good part of it is some old alchemical symbol (and thus tied to speculative freemasonry, according to many--and thus another JW no-no)--I can't believe he gets away with using the thing at all. It's just a complete and utter red-flag to any good JW, I would think.

SpiritOtter said:

With Prince no longer appearing to search for truth, it is interesting that his music concurrently appears to hold significantly less tension, which we could theorise was an essential ingredient to his creativity and, therefore, genius. Thus, the funk of his music can often feel more perfunctory or phoned in nowadays; some might even say "bland" (e.g. 1 +1 +1 is 3), as opposed to when he was genuinely feeling the funk in that alter-ego, Camille-eseque state (Erotic City).

I think this is true--and one of the major problems with his work from the late 90's on.

Now, it could all just be that artistically he's beyond the struggle, but he's told us to think in spiritual terms so often that when he says he's found the answer, and then actually stops re-enacting the struggle in songs and instead sticks to mostly speaking as someone who knows already--well, it's hard not to see the change as at least in part a matter of his spiritual certainty robbing him of his musical energy.

EddieC said:

SpiritOtter said:

With Prince no longer appearing to search for truth, it is interesting that his music concurrently appears to hold significantly less tension, which we could theorise was an essential ingredient to his creativity and, therefore, genius. Thus, the funk of his music can often feel more perfunctory or phoned in nowadays; some might even say "bland" (e.g. 1 +1 +1 is 3), as opposed to when he was genuinely feeling the funk in that alter-ego, Camille-eseque state (Erotic City).

I think this is true--and one of the major problems with his work from the late 90's on.

Now, it could all just be that artistically he's beyond the struggle, but he's told us to think in spiritual terms so often that when he says he's found the answer, and then actually stops re-enacting the struggle in songs and instead sticks to mostly speaking as someone who knows already--well, it's hard not to see the change as at least in part a matter of his spiritual certainty robbing him of his musical energy.

A quite brilliant way of putting it, EddieC.

fuzion said:

Prince stated himself in a chat years ago that he stopped wearing a cross after Lovesexy due to a conversation with friends regarding the iconography of the cross as a form of capital punishment, something to the effect of what KRS-ONE said in the song "The Truth" about if Jesus was killed in an electrc chair, we'd be wearing gold electric chairs around our necks.

The JW association just solidified his aversion to it.

[Edited 9/3/13 11:41am]

Death Row, you know what time it is

raddahone said:

Somewhere during the Scandalous video is the first time that i remember seeing Mr. Prince without the cross and wearing the symbol with the circle, cross, and arrow combined. BTW - this is ancient symbolism/sacred geometry. Many think that it indicates Man and Woman together as One in God.

The Cross is a symbol of Heaven and Earth combined. Heaven is the vertical line and Earth is the horizontal line.

Strange how the H and the E when combined make the word, HE. I doubt though that this "he" was really intended. But, it is interesting from a perspective of duality and how everything here/Earth seems to be based on duality.

Do you really think that English is the only language in the world, or that the folks who first combined a horizontal line with a vertical line were English speaking?

sovembol said:

Watch Prince's performance 1998 on the Essence Awards.. "The Christ"

SpiritOtter said:

I was just watching a glorious video clip from the Parade era of Prince performing Pop Life live with the Revolution, and it once again reminded me that something of a "trademark" of Prince's style back in the day (for God knows how long) was that he would wear a cross pendant around his neck. Stylistically, I quite liked it, and of course it perhaps sought to signal to the audience that whatever his"performance" on stage might indicate (e.g. Head), there was a degree of goodness behind the man's actions. He was essentially good, but he liked being bad. And he wanted to be saved. It was/is that dichotomy between the sexual/spiritual that made the genuine tension in Prince's psyche and, therefore, music and art all the more captivating to experience. With Prince no longer appearing to search for truth, it is interesting that his music concurrently appears to hold significantly less tension, which we could theorise was an essential ingredient to his creativity and, therefore, genius. Thus, the funk of his music can often feel more perfunctory or phoned in nowadays; some might even say "bland" (e.g. 1 +1 +1 is 3), as opposed to when he was genuinely feeling the funk in that alter-ego, Camille-eseque state (Erotic City). So, why doesn't Prince wear a cross around his neck anymore? And was it the basic cross pendant that he then morphed into his symbol to be more representative of his brand or were they completely independent items? It will be interesting to see if anyone can actually trace the last date he actually wore the cross pendant? Throughout the no-name years (i.e. long before the conversion to becoming a JW), I don't recall a cross being worn, but I could be mistaken. He seems to still identify at least with the love symbol bearing the male and female signs.

^

The performance of "The Christ" 1998 -- formerly "The Cross" -- is terrible, awful, embarrassing.. Prince, Chaka & f*cking Larry Graham...

[Edited 9/4/13 21:05pm]

ludwig said:

Have you missed prince's infamous "stauros" speech?

Rewind back to circa 1998...

I don't think I heard the stauros speech. Maybe I did and it has escaped me.

I don't wear crosses either. And yes, I'm a believer in the Messiah.

Dave1992 said:

raddahone said:

Somewhere during the Scandalous video is the first time that i remember seeing Mr. Prince without the cross and wearing the symbol with the circle, cross, and arrow combined. BTW - this is ancient symbolism/sacred geometry. Many think that it indicates Man and Woman together as One in God.

The Cross is a symbol of Heaven and Earth combined. Heaven is the vertical line and Earth is the horizontal line.

Strange how the H and the E when combined make the word, HE. I doubt though that this "he" was really intended. But, it is interesting from a perspective of duality and how everything here/Earth seems to be based on duality.

Do you really think that English is the only language in the world, or that the folks who first combined a horizontal line with a vertical line were English speaking?

Come on! Words are vibrations typically coming through a body.

"Englisht the only language in the world?" You have got to be kidding. One of my favorite past times is chanting in Sanskrit - the Khagda Mala, Samputita Sri Suktam, and parts of the Chandi. Sanskrit is a much higher vibration than English and chanting is done for everyone and everything, seen and unseen. Sanskrit is a language specifically for devotional purposes only.

Try a Sankalpa for World Peace - Chanting malas "Om Namah Shivaya" through Shree Maa (www.shreemaa.org) and go beyond English and the commonly spoken languages of today.

Also find Sacred Geometry very interesting. So, while life appears to be a game, it really isn't. And, English is not an old language. Much prefer ancient things. Looking higher than a Cross for Sacred Geometry. Hoping to feel God in Everything, created and uncreated, light and not so light. Only Goodness is Eternal and Infinite. That circle in the Symbol adds some infiniteness and the arrow brings it down to Earth.

Love 2 Everyone.

raddahone said:

Baby Jesus had a pole up his bum.

Stymie said:

vivacious1 said:

Jehovah Witnesses don't wear crosses.

This. It's just that simple.

Thank you.

raddahone said:

Somewhere during the Scandalous video is the first time that i remember seeing Mr. Prince without the cross and wearing the symbol with the circle, cross, and arrow combined. BTW - this is ancient symbolism/sacred geometry. Many think that it indicates Man and Woman together as One in God.

The Cross is a symbol of Heaven and Earth combined. Heaven is the vertical line and Earth is the horizontal line.

Strange how the H and the E when combined make the word, HE. I doubt though that this "he" was really intended. But, it is interesting from a perspective of duality and how everything here/Earth seems to be based on duality.

except when it comes to the gender of God, Adam, etc.

Graycap23 said:

errant said:

SpiritOtter said: There is none. Every sect has its own arbitrary shit to distinguish itself from every other sect that worships the Skybully.

What is the big deal?

Let's 4 argument sake say that Prince is correct and that all of these centuries folks have been lied 2 about this event (if it actually took place).

My stance is simple, where there is 1 lie, there are many that have yet 2 be uncovered.

haha, the world is BUILT on lies.

thedance said:

sovembol said:

Watch Prince's performance 1998 on the Essence Awards.. "The Christ"

^

The performance of "The Christ" 1998 -- formerly "The Cross" -- is terrible, awful, embarrassing.. Prince, Chaka & f*cking Larry Graham...

[Edited 9/4/13 21:05pm]

THIS in itself was blasphemy!

.

raddahone said:

Somewhere during the Scandalous video is the first time that i remember seeing Mr. Prince without the cross and wearing the symbol with the circle, cross, and arrow combined. BTW - this is ancient symbolism/sacred geometry. Many think that it indicates Man and Woman together as One in God.

The Cross is a symbol of Heaven and Earth combined. Heaven is the vertical line and Earth is the horizontal line.

Strange how the H and the E when combined make the word, HE. I doubt though that this "he" was really intended. But, it is interesting from a perspective of duality and how everything here/Earth seems to be based on duality.

In English, a language that didn't even exist yet when the cross symbol was adopted by christians. In French Heaven & Earth are Paradis & Terre, which makes PT and doesn't mean shit

databank said:

raddahone said:

Somewhere during the Scandalous video is the first time that i remember seeing Mr. Prince without the cross and wearing the symbol with the circle, cross, and arrow combined. BTW - this is ancient symbolism/sacred geometry. Many think that it indicates Man and Woman together as One in God.

The Cross is a symbol of Heaven and Earth combined. Heaven is the vertical line and Earth is the horizontal line.

Strange how the H and the E when combined make the word, HE. I doubt though that this "he" was really intended. But, it is interesting from a perspective of duality and how everything here/Earth seems to be based on duality.

In English, a language that didn't even exist yet when the cross symbol was adopted by christians. In French Heaven & Earth are Paradis & Terre, which makes PT and doesn't mean shit

raddahone said:

Dave1992 said:

Do you really think that English is the only language in the world, or that the folks who first combined a horizontal line with a vertical line were English speaking?

Come on! Words are vibrations typically coming through a body.

"Englisht the only language in the world?" You have got to be kidding. One of my favorite past times is chanting in Sanskrit - the Khagda Mala, Samputita Sri Suktam, and parts of the Chandi. Sanskrit is a much higher vibration than English and chanting is done for everyone and everything, seen and unseen. Sanskrit is a language specifically for devotional purposes only.

Try a Sankalpa for World Peace - Chanting malas "Om Namah Shivaya" through Shree Maa (www.shreemaa.org) and go beyond English and the commonly spoken languages of today.

Also find Sacred Geometry very interesting. So, while life appears to be a game, it really isn't. And, English is not an old language. Much prefer ancient things. Looking higher than a Cross for Sacred Geometry. Hoping to feel God in Everything, created and uncreated, light and not so light. Only Goodness is Eternal and Infinite. That circle in the Symbol adds some infiniteness and the arrow brings it down to Earth.

Love 2 Everyone.

If you don't mind me saying, I think folks here are wondering how did you come up with the HE conclusion of the cross as meaning heaven and earth, considering the English language was formed and spoken, after the fall of Rome. Would your link provide an answer?

Also, the cross is an ancient Egyptian symbolism, correct?

[Edited 9/6/13 8:33am]

Beautifulstarr123 said:

raddahone said:

Come on! Words are vibrations typically coming through a body.

"Englisht the only language in the world?" You have got to be kidding. One of my favorite past times is chanting in Sanskrit - the Khagda Mala, Samputita Sri Suktam, and parts of the Chandi. Sanskrit is a much higher vibration than English and chanting is done for everyone and everything, seen and unseen. Sanskrit is a language specifically for devotional purposes only.

Try a Sankalpa for World Peace - Chanting malas "Om Namah Shivaya" through Shree Maa (www.shreemaa.org) and go beyond English and the commonly spoken languages of today.

Also find Sacred Geometry very interesting. So, while life appears to be a game, it really isn't. And, English is not an old language. Much prefer ancient things. Looking higher than a Cross for Sacred Geometry. Hoping to feel God in Everything, created and uncreated, light and not so light. Only Goodness is Eternal and Infinite. That circle in the Symbol adds some infiniteness and the arrow brings it down to Earth.

Love 2 Everyone.

If you don't mind me saying, I think folks here are wondering how did you come up with the HE conclusion of the cross as meaning heaven and earth, considering the English language was formed and spoken, after the fall of Rome. Would your link provide an answer?

Also, the cross is an ancient Egyptian symbolism, correct?

[Edited 9/6/13 8:33am]

Hi,

The HE conclusion was just me being a smark aleck. The business world that I deal with is 95% male embodied who tend to think everything is phallic or male based and they would have loved the HE thing.

As far as the cross, the info that follows is research by Natacha Rambova, a famous Eyptologist and heiress, who literally worked herself to death in her late 60's to put together her research. Just a bit of history first - She had married Rudolph Valentino before he became famous. After he became famous, folks rebelled against her because she wanted Rudy to show his feminine side in the movies. She also had to flee Europe during the German invasion of where she had been living via a small rowboat and went far out into the Ocean....Rebellious woman she was because she spoke up to the Church that they weren't doing anything to stop the European slaughter of humans.

Info from "The Mystery Pattern in Ancient Symbolism" by Natacha Rambova. (out of respect...the following is copied from one of her research papers)

"The Cross, the Square, and the Swastika: In geometric symbolism the Four was commonly portrayed as the Cross or or the Square. Although used in various ways in different cultures to depict different aspects of the greater or lesser Four, there was yet an underlying tradition of general use and conception. As an example, the greater aspect of the cosmic Cardinal Cross was the vertical form of the pillar or ray passing down below the horizontal horizon line of the earth. Representing both the male (vertical) and female (horizontal) polarities, this was the cross of the gods, as well as the fertility cross of generation.

(Symbolically, the horizontal dimension signified that limited to earth, whereas the vertical was unlimited containing the divine power to descend and ascend. )

In the later developments of the symbolic interactive use of the cross with the circle, the cross placed over the circle became the astronomical symbol of the Earth*, signifying the solar principle of the disk passed below the horizon into the underworld of earth life. The reverse use of the circle above the cross became the symbol of the planet Venus - a probable derivation of the Ankh associated with Isis-Venus and the mother goddesses, as the givers of life and the creative means by which the solar monad (disk) entered into the mainfest life (the cross).

* Held in the hands of the early Christian emporers, the symbol signified dominion of the Cross over the earth."

XNY said:

I love this conversation !!And I'm not trying to steal the conversation away, but what version does Prince perform now? "The Christ" or "The Cross"?

Princevault doesn't have a listed performance since 2006--as "The Christ."

I may get crucified for this, but thanks to a helpful Orger who pointed me in the direction of the live performance, I actually really quite enjoyed The Christ live with Prince, Larry G and Chaka K. The speech and the change of lyrics did not detract, or deter me, from the spirited feeling of the performance.

SpiritOtter said:

SuperSoulFighter said:

Is everyone missing the obvious here? Look closely at the . The cross is right in the middle of it. He never stopped wearing it. He just "customized" it.

AND.. I would stick that symbol with the

rest of those pictured in link below

http://symboldictionary.n...ge_id=1603

it's disturbing just like people use their crosses

to worship ..people show how they worship

Prince by having this symbol hanging around their

neck-tattoos,pictures..etc..they would kiss it just like Prince did

with the cross when he was in the car in UTCM

at the airport scene..remember?

I have witnessed it and it is very disturbing

Leviticus 26:1

Exodus 20:4,5

RosesRred said:

SuperSoulFighter said:

Is everyone missing the obvious here? Look closely at the . The cross is right in the middle of it. He never stopped wearing it. He just "customized" it.

AND.. I would stick that symbol with the

rest of those pictured in link below

http://symboldictionary.n...ge_id=1603

it's disturbing just like people use their crosses

to worship ..people show how they worship

Prince by having this symbol hanging around their

neck-tattoos,pictures..etc..they would kiss it just like Prince did

with the cross when he was in the car in UTCM

at the airport scene..remember?

I have witnessed it and it is very disturbing

Leviticus 26:1

Exodus 20:4,5

The "Symbol" is a very close represntation to what people stood in the distant/ancient past. Where people stood insidie the Symbol depended upon their level of Spirituality.

Seems to me that Prince has the courage to go with his InnerSelf. Somewhere, in the InnerSelf, we all merge. Or, is it emerge? But that depends upon how one looks at emerging from the InSide or the OutSide.

Do any of us really know how the Symbol that Prince uses/used was created in this lifetime? Maybe ya'll should ask him - it might have been a group project.

What people have written about other symbols of what is available on the Internet can be dangerous. The Rosicrucians have study of Symbology to those who wish to see it/join it. I am not advocating the Rosicrucians to anyone - just stating that they have lessons available.

[Edited 9/12/13 7:15am]

SpiritOtter said:

I was just watching a glorious video clip from the Parade era of Prince performing Pop Life live with the Revolution, and it once again reminded me that something of a "trademark" of Prince's style back in the day (for God knows how long) was that he would wear a cross pendant around his neck. Stylistically, I quite liked it, and of course it perhaps sought to signal to the audience that whatever his"performance" on stage might indicate (e.g. Head), there was a degree of goodness behind the man's actions. He was essentially good, but he liked being bad. And he wanted to be saved. It was/is that dichotomy between the sexual/spiritual that made the genuine tension in Prince's psyche and, therefore, music and art all the more captivating to experience. With Prince no longer appearing to search for truth, it is interesting that his music concurrently appears to hold significantly less tension, which we could theorise was an essential ingredient to his creativity and, therefore, genius. Thus, the funk of his music can often feel more perfunctory or phoned in nowadays; some might even say "bland" (e.g. 1 +1 +1 is 3), as opposed to when he was genuinely feeling the funk in that alter-ego, Camille-eseque state (Erotic City). So, why doesn't Prince wear a cross around his neck anymore? And was it the basic cross pendant that he then morphed into his symbol to be more representative of his brand or were they completely independent items? It will be interesting to see if anyone can actually trace the last date he actually wore the cross pendant? Throughout the no-name years (i.e. long before the conversion to becoming a JW), I don't recall a cross being worn, but I could be mistaken. He seems to still identify at least with the love symbol bearing the male and female signs.

More importantly, why does it matter?

raddahone said:

RosesRred said:

AND.. I would stick that O( > symbol with the

rest of those pictured in link below

http://symboldictionary.n...ge_id=1603

it's disturbing just like people use their crosses

to worship ..people show how they worship

Prince by having this symbol hanging around their

neck-tattoos,pictures..etc..they would kiss it just like Prince did

with the cross when he was in the car in UTCM

at the airport scene..remember?

I have witnessed it and it is very disturbing

Leviticus 26:1

Exodus 20:4,5

The "Symbol" is a very close represntation to what people stood in the distant/ancient past. Where people stood insidie the Symbol depended upon their level of Spirituality.

Seems to me that Prince has the courage to go with his InnerSelf. Somewhere, in the InnerSelf, we all merge. Or, is it emerge? But that depends upon how one looks at emerging from the InSide or the OutSide.

Do any of us really know how the Symbol that Prince uses/used was created in this lifetime? Maybe ya'll should ask him - it might have been a group project.

What people have written about other symbols of what is available on the Internet can be dangerous. The Rosicrucians have study of Symbology to those who wish to see it/join it. I am not advocating the Rosicrucians to anyone - just stating that they have lessons available.

[Edited 9/12/13 7:15am]

There's a meaning behind everything and we have to be careful what we are dealing with.. “We have a wrestling, not against blood and flesh, but against the governments, against the authorities, against the world rulers of this darkness, against the wicked spirit forces in the heavenly places.”—Ephesians 6:12

http://exposingthematrix....-symbolism

Is it worth it?

.....BUT this is what I get so confused when it comes to Prince, I see so much now and I know he must know.. I know..he must know..and he knows the outcome..

he knows he doesn't get a pass just because his name is Prince.

"The beginning of Knowledge is the discovery of something we do Not understand."