Tremolina said:

I find it hard to imagine that they could create vinyl remasters from the original tapes without Prince's approval, and without him even objecting to what they're doing. I remember that when "The Very Best of Prince" came out, he posted some message on his official website at the time urging fans not to buy it. There has also been much speculation that Prince refused to allow "Erotic City" to be included on the "Prince: Ultimate" project. I'd think that, if Prince didn't like this, he would have made some comment about it through Dr. Funkenberry, painted "Slave" on his face again, or something.

I think what happened is that WMG asked Prince if they could remaster these albums for vinyl, and he gave his approval but refused to do any promotion for them (other than playing the tracks at his concerts, which he does anyway). He knows that there isn't much money to be made from vinyl in any event, and it won't interfere with whatever long-term plans he may have for digital remasters.

But that's just a guess.

^

I would guess Prince is not that easy when it comes to this issue. But it's just a guess.

Also, if you ask me, tho I'm not a recording technician either, "remasters" aren't always necessarily made from the original (multi track) tapes. Preferably so maybe, but not necessarily.

My bets are, that everybody that is involved in the game somehow, is beginning to play their part right now.

That means all the players. Not just the main ones, Prince and Warner, but also associated artists, business partners and even (ex)wives.

What it all boils down to legally is: who owns or (or after 35 years) will own (part of) the copyrights to the 80's recordings? The issue of what tapes were used exactly for remastering and who exactly has those tapes in his possession is not irrelevant, but of minor importance if you ask me.

Going by (the little) we know about this issue from those involved at this point, and what I know myself of copyright practices in the music industry, my guess (but really no more) at this moment is, that Prince hasn't gotten any rights back yet, not untill 2013 (35 years). WB can therefore still remaster and re-release these WB records Dirty Mind, Controversy and 1999, through Rhino (a WB company), without Prince's approval, when and as long as it concerns vinyl releases.

But when into comes to cd's and digital remastering technology, it could very well be a different story, because those technologies didn't exist yet at the time of signing the original copyright transfer clauses, regarding these albums (back in the late 70's or early 80's). Becuase these technolgies didn't yet exist back then, legally they can not be covered by those transfer clauses. This issue is commonly known in copyright contracts as "future rights". Rights that do not exist yet at the time of signing a copyright transfer.

On the other hand, the vinyl remastering technologies that were used now, presumably, are most probably covered by those agreements because those technologies did exist back then already and therefore are covered by the transfer clause. Hence these releases by Rhino/WB, yet without a word by Prince.

(This is all theory of course. Even if we would have knowledge of all the contracts, we probably stil'l couldnt be sure 100% who owns what)

[Edited 5/30/11 12:54pm]

All interesting points. Note, however, that Purple Rain has also been remastered for vinyl. Purple Rain was first issued on CD in 1984, the same year it was released on vinyl:

http://news.google.com/ne...&hl=en

It was the first album to be released on vinyl and CD in the same year.

http://prince.org/msg/7/3...?&pg=4

What gave WB the right to issue Purple Rain on CD in 1984, and why wouldn't that transfer cover future CD reissues of that album?

[Edited 5/30/11 13:03pm]

wait

[Edited 5/30/11 13:03pm]

I think we're both posting too fast for the other to keep up.

Purple Rain was remastered for vinyl by Kevin Gray. His initials are in the deadwax. It was the first vinyl remaster to be issued.

[Edited 5/30/11 13:05pm]

electricberet said:

Tremolina said:

^ basically you are assuming PR has been remastered already, because the guys from the podcast said that prine said that he did this already?

but suppose it's true aqnd Prince has already remastered PR himself... Doesn't mean he has already, nor that he already has the rights already to release it as such

No, it's because it was remastered for vinyl by Kevin Gray. His initials are in the deadwax. It was the first vinyl remaster to be issued.

I get it now.

Yes, but that was a VINYL remaster too, right?

Not a digital one.l

electricberet said:

I think we're both posting too fast for the other to keep up.

for sure!

Tremolina said:

electricberet said:

No, it's because it was remastered for vinyl by Kevin Gray. His initials are in the deadwax. It was the first vinyl remaster to be issued.

I get it now.

Yes, but that was a VINYL remaster too, right?

Not a digital one.l

Yes. It was a vinyl remaster. None of the albums have been digitally remastered. My point is that the albums that are being remastered for vinyl aren't just the ones that were initially released on vinyl only and not on CD until later. Not that you were necessarily saying that.

electricberet said:

Tremolina said:

I get it now.

Yes, but that was a VINYL remaster too, right?

Not a digital one.l

Yes. It was a vinyl remaster. None of the albums have been digitally remastered. My point is that the albums that are being remastered for vinyl aren't just the ones that were initially released on vinyl only and not on CD until later. Not that you were necessarily saying that.

No I wasn't .

MY point is that the contracts involved MAY not cover the right to DIGITALLY remaster the whole lot.

But I could be wrong

Tremolina said:

electricberet said:

Yes. It was a vinyl remaster. None of the albums have been digitally remastered. My point is that the albums that are being remastered for vinyl aren't just the ones that were initially released on vinyl only and not on CD until later. Not that you were necessarily saying that.

No I wasn't .

MY point is that the contracts involved MAY not cover the right to DIGITALLY remaster the whole lot.

But I could be wrong

If there is anyone who knows for sure what's in those contracts, they probably aren't talking here. But wouldn't these issues have been addressed, if they weren't before, in the big contract Prince signed in 1992 that he later came to regret? There is also the possibility that all these matters are in dispute and WMG worked out a special deal with Prince regarding the vinyl reissues to avoid any litigation.

[Edited 5/30/11 13:19pm]

^ There are a lot of possibilities.

I wouldn't be surprised if they were talking and perhabs even close to a deal.

But something tells me, and maybe it's just a hunch, that they aren't coming to a full agreement.

These kind of projects are a complicated business and there is a lot of legal and financial insecurity involved, with perhabs too much difference of opinion and too much bad blood from the past.

Tremolina said:

^ There are a lot of possibilities.

I wouldn't be surprised if they were talking and perhabs even close to a deal.

But something tells me, and maybe it's just a hunch, that they aren't coming to a full agreement.

These kind of projects are a complicated business and there is a lot of legal and financial insecurity involved, with perhabs too much difference of opinion and too much bad blood from the past.

Given all the uncertainty surrounding the music industry in general and WMG in particular, there are all sorts of reasons why Prince might want to wait to finalize any deal. As long as he can make enough money from his concerts, he doesn't need to budge in the negotiations. But it sounds like there might be some trouble in the concert promotion department, so who knows...

All I can say is that the new vinyl remasters sound great and any Prince fan who has a turntable and a good sound system should strongly consider picking them up while they last.

^ If you ask me (and that's the last time I promise lol) remaster are RUNNING LATE ALREADY.

They could have made made money late 90's / early 00's, but we are in the second decade of the 21st century now.

People listen to music on devices nobody would have dreamed of in '84.

But that's still the sound quality we hear from Prince's master pieces (SOTT's horrible sound included).

Sales of new remastered albums can either hurt or increase current album sales.

I think it is a good idea to delay them until he is not releasing a new album and he has stated a few times recently he is in 'studio rehab' so maybe that could point to remasters coming in the near future.

IMO, if there is one thing that motivates Prince's decisions, it is cash. If he crunched the numbers and found remasters would either boost or hinder his current finances, that will be the main factor in his decision.

electricberet said:

Tremolina said:

I get it now.

Yes, but that was a VINYL remaster too, right?

Not a digital one.l

Yes. It was a vinyl remaster. None of the albums have been digitally remastered. My point is that the albums that are being remastered for vinyl aren't just the ones that were initially released on vinyl only and not on CD until later. Not that you were necessarily saying that.

The remastering is all digital these days. They then choose to transfer it to vinyl acetate for commercial release with a specific EQ for vinyl. So it can be considered that digital remasters are lurking waiting to be put to CD or lossless higher quality digital sound files.

I'm listening to Dirty Mind right now. It sounds very, very full. I'll definitely pick up the others.

Just got these 3 discs for my birthday.

My god, they are good. The drums and bass on Uptown are incredible. It's like hearing the song for the first time again.

Pick these up people - you won't regret it.

Question? Why no 'For You' or 'Prince' - why jump straight to Dirty Mind? Nothing to do with the rights being back with Prince already for the first 2 albums and these ones not quite?

It feels to me this is WB, just squeezing the last of their contractual rights out of the contract and releasing what they still can.

Are they going to follow suit with vinyl remasters of Parade and ATWIAD next year?

Amazon UK is selling Purple Rain from Rhino records too. Is that also remastered?

So apart from us here and on other forums, if the first 4 albums were remastered and released on cd how many units would he shift? who outside of the purple universe are going to buy them? bearing in mind that they didn't sell that well the first time round. iw won't be until 1999, PR, ATWIAD, Parade and SOTT that he started selling records. is it financially viable for the first 4 to be remastered and make money for Prince, coz if it ain't it won't happen.

bigd74 said:

So apart from us here and on other forums, if the first 4 albums were remastered and released on cd how many units would he shift? who outside of the purple universe are going to buy them? bearing in mind that they didn't sell that well the first time round. iw won't be until 1999, PR, ATWIAD, Parade and SOTT that he started selling records. is it financially viable for the first 4 to be remastered and make money for Prince, coz if it ain't it won't happen.

The remastered albums are on the shelves in the Best Buy vinyl section, at least here in Dallas. I imagine some people are buying them there who don't spend time on these forums.

Someone on the Steve Hoffman forum contacted Bernie Grundman Mastering and asked if more albums could be remastered. He was told that "it's up to Rhino, but based on the positive feedback they're getting, it's a definite possibility." See here:

http://www.stevehoffman.t...amp;page=2

Interesting that he didn't mention any need to get Prince's approval.

[Edited 6/16/11 8:35am]

Help:

Where to buy these in Denmark,

- or somewhere else, inside the European Union....?

(IF I buy these in the US I have to pay fees and toll extra, quite expenssive)....

thedance said:

Help:

Where to buy these in Denmark,

- or somewhere else, inside the European Union....?

(IF I buy these in the US I have to pay fees and toll extra, quite expenssive)....

Big Dipper in Oslo. That's where I bought them. Send them an email first though, they can be sold out.

www.bigdipper.no

ordre@bigdipper.no

^ thanks but I have always thought Norway was outside the European Union.

I am a little unsure now.

If they are outside EU, then I have to pay toll and other fees.

a vacation in norway, then buy it there with norwegian kroners

^ Haha thanks, and a good advise......

[Edited 6/18/11 14:31pm]

njin said:

thedance said:

Help:

Where to buy these in Denmark,

- or somewhere else, inside the European Union....?

(IF I buy these in the US I have to pay fees and toll extra, quite expenssive)....

Big Dipper in Oslo. That's where I bought them. Send them an email first though, they can be sold out.

www.bigdipper.no

ordre@bigdipper.no

All three are out now available in London. I got hold of them last week. The depth in the sound of these remasters is amazing. These albums have never sounded so.... real before.

Marrk said:

jackmitz said:

I'm comparing to both the (lousy) CDs and the original vinyl. And after making my way through all three reissues, I'm blown away. They took reverential care in remastering these albums. Here's hoping they get to 'Sign' and 'Lovesexy'

I'm at a loss to understand how a new vinyl can sound any better than the original vinyl.

Still means nothing with pristine digital copies available. THe best vinyl is not better than a normal CD. The so-called audiophile market makes its proponents believe that they are getting something more for all the extramoney they spend. It is a bit like Starbucks getting 5 times the money for coffee that really isnt better than most of the ordinary donut shops or cafes - marketing.

freedomrider said:

Marrk said:

I'm at a loss to understand how a new vinyl can sound any better than the original vinyl.

Still means nothing with pristine digital copies available. THe best vinyl is not better than a normal CD. The so-called audiophile market makes its proponents believe that they are getting something more for all the extramoney they spend. It is a bit like Starbucks getting 5 times the money for coffee that really isnt better than most of the ordinary donut shops or cafes - marketing.

If they haven't released the cds rematered, then it does matter. And often cd remastering equals shitty sound, because all that matters these days are the Loudness War. This "war" did something to the remastering process of especially pop records on cd. The clue was to over compress the music, making it sound louder. The reason why it sounds louder is because they are squeezing the dynamics, making it sound like a "wall". This makes it possible to play "loud" on shitty consumer speakers, leading to people thinking the "loudest" music they hear is the best. This was done to compete aganst other "loud" music. THe loudest often won, and the war is still on.

Marrk said:

I'm at a loss to understand how a new vinyl can sound any better than the original vinyl.

If, like these 'new' Prince vinyls', it's om 180g vinyl, it allows more sonic detail to be stored in the grooves. Or so I'm told.

The timing is perfect.I just got a new turntable Think I'll go ahead and order these