UptownCitizen said:

I don't like the word homophobia because of its focus on the 'irrational fear' of someone's hatred rather than focusing on the hatred itself. Seeing it so deeply engrained everywhere (even up in here, a fan site for a guy who made his career by selling sex) and in so many ways (also within LGBT people, tragically) has desensitized me from caring enough about the reason or rationale for hate to make a special consideration for it more than just describing the hate ... but not to worry; I'm sure most 'real men' could give a fuck about my level of sensitivity toward them, right?

By the way, if you're scared that I can turn you gay then you're probably right.

DaphneLovesPR1NCE said:

robinhood said:

thanks for answering my questions, i have one more:

4. what would Jesus do in this situation?

Maybe YOU should ask HIM yourself...

my guess is, he'd turn the other cheek.

robinhood said:

DaphneLovesPR1NCE said:

Maybe YOU should ask HIM yourself...

my guess is, he'd turn the other cheek.

Hmm, I guess Prince was following the Saviour's lead...turn the other cheek and walk away. Well Prince did add "burn the negatives." But it was still very Christ-like of him.

DaphneLovesPR1NCE said:

robinhood said:

my guess is, he'd turn the other cheek.

Hmm, I guess Prince was following the Saviour's lead...turn the other cheek and walk away. Well Prince did add "burn the negatives." But it was still very Christ-like of him.

my question was for you daphne.

but that's ok, i can see you're busy dreamin.

take care

Cerebus said:

I'm straight, btw, and while some of y'all are clearly homophobic (whether you realize it or not), some of you aren't. No, some of you are just hateful, sheltered, rude and straight up ignorant! Oh, and you're most definitely NOT sexy. Mm.

I love you.

DaphneLovesPR1NCE said:

motherfunka said:

Vogue (From Controversy Magazine)

Ain't talkin' about Madonna's Vogue, this is Vogue magazine, the major fashion magazine which ordered a photo shoot on Prince by noted rock photgrapher Herb Ritts. Ritts has photgraphed Madonna and many others for Rolling Stone magazine covers, so he thought that he was experienced in dealing with rock stars, but was surprised to find that Prince wasn't quite what he expected.

On the other hand, Prince was no prima donna but a professional, a perfect gentleman who was willing to sit for Ritts from 10:00am to 7:30pm with nothing but a mug of herbal tea to sustain him. On the other hand, Ritts found that what Prince is professional at is being a musician and performer, not being a fashion model. When asked to pose, jump and spin for the camera, Prince said that he felt like an idiot when he tried to dance for a photographer, that it didn't feel natural to do it for the camera. They actually got along pretty well except for this little exchange below, whereby Ritts learned not to play up to Prince the way he would one of his models. Prince was asked to stand on top of the baby blue piano:

Prince: Tell me if this makes you want to puke.

Ritts: You look sensational

Prince: I can change if you want.

Ritts: Instead of standing, why don't you perch on the edge of the piano and pretend you're playing the keys with the heels of your yellow shoes?

After Prince complied, Ritts continued.

Ritts: You look great! You look so sexy!

Prince: Burn those negatives (walking off the set in a huff)!

^^^Why is everyone ignoring this post?^^^

First of all, none of us were there so we don't know *how* something was said. In what context? Was Prince posing? Or was this when there were no shots being taken? All of these questions determine whether or not you think Prince acted irrationally.

But with this post I quoted above it's obvious to me that Prince stormed off saying 'burn those negatives' because he hated the shoot! It doesn't matter how much someone praises something, if you genuinely hate it and you're at your wits end with it you can end up acting like Prince did.

I don't think it had anything to do with the actual comment. That's how photographing sessions work anyway.

My opinion: He stormed out because of the *shoot*! Not the comment. He hated that particular set/photoshoot.

Japha11 said:

motherfunka said:

Vogue (From Controversy Magazine)

Ain't talkin' about Madonna's Vogue, this is Vogue magazine, the major fashion magazine which ordered a photo shoot on Prince by noted rock photgrapher Herb Ritts. Ritts has photgraphed Madonna and many others for Rolling Stone magazine covers, so he thought that he was experienced in dealing with rock stars, but was surprised to find that Prince wasn't quite what he expected.

On the other hand, Prince was no prima donna but a professional, a perfect gentleman who was willing to sit for Ritts from 10:00am to 7:30pm with nothing but a mug of herbal tea to sustain him. On the other hand, Ritts found that what Prince is professional at is being a musician and performer, not being a fashion model. When asked to pose, jump and spin for the camera, Prince said that he felt like an idiot when he tried to dance for a photographer, that it didn't feel natural to do it for the camera. They actually got along pretty well except for this little exchange below, whereby Ritts learned not to play up to Prince the way he would one of his models. Prince was asked to stand on top of the baby blue piano:

Prince: Tell me if this makes you want to puke.

Ritts: You look sensational

Prince: I can change if you want.

Ritts: Instead of standing, why don't you perch on the edge of the piano and pretend you're playing the keys with the heels of your yellow shoes?

After Prince complied, Ritts continued.

Ritts: You look great! You look so sexy!

Prince: Burn those negatives (walking off the set in a huff)!

^^^Why is everyone ignoring this post?^^^

not everyone ignored that post. but with all the drama about so-called sexual harassment, it was overlooked by many.

the loudest voice drowns everyone else out, until the softest voice comes along.

robinhood said:

DaphneLovesPR1NCE said:

You're right, it could have been (and maybe it was) harmless and just typical talk of photographers. But that has nothing to do with how it made Prince feel.

daphne, you dont know how it made prince feel. you are only imagining how it made prince feel and assuming it to be a fact.

you're projecting your own thoughts on to this scenario and assuming prince thinks the same way you do.

prince taught an entire generation that sexual harassment is OK.

he influenced people, on how to manipulate a woman into bed, and he did this through his songs and his video clips.

some might even say prince himself is an expert at sexual harassment.

ur either calling him a hypocrite, or there are other reasons he left the room that you havent thought about.

^^^^ haha very true!

robinhood said:

Japha11 said:

^^^Why is everyone ignoring this post?^^^

not everyone ignored that post. but with all the drama about so-called sexual harassment, it was overlooked by many.

the loudest voice drowns everyone else out, until the softest voice comes along.

You're very right. I suppose your sig will prove to be right too in this thread lol

motherfunka said:

Vogue (From Controversy Magazine)

Ain't talkin' about Madonna's Vogue, this is Vogue magazine, the major fashion magazine which ordered a photo shoot on Prince by noted rock photgrapher Herb Ritts. Ritts has photgraphed Madonna and many others for Rolling Stone magazine covers, so he thought that he was experienced in dealing with rock stars, but was surprised to find that Prince wasn't quite what he expected.

On the other hand, Prince was no prima donna but a professional, a perfect gentleman who was willing to sit for Ritts from 10:00am to 7:30pm with nothing but a mug of herbal tea to sustain him. On the other hand, Ritts found that what Prince is professional at is being a musician and performer, not being a fashion model. When asked to pose, jump and spin for the camera, Prince said that he felt like an idiot when he tried to dance for a photographer, that it didn't feel natural to do it for the camera. They actually got along pretty well except for this little exchange below, whereby Ritts learned not to play up to Prince the way he would one of his models. Prince was asked to stand on top of the baby blue piano:

Prince: Tell me if this makes you want to puke.

Ritts: You look sensational

Prince: I can change if you want.

Ritts: Instead of standing, why don't you perch on the edge of the piano and pretend you're playing the keys with the heels of your yellow shoes?

After Prince complied, Ritts continued.

Ritts: You look great! You look so sexy!

Prince: Burn those negatives (walking off the set in a huff)!

There you have it. In context, the story is about/illustrates Prince being insecure and a diva. Not about being a homophobe like many people on this thread.

DaphneLovesPR1NCE said:

Cerebus said:

uhhhwhaaaa? Herb Ritts was known for taking sexy photos. Photographers telling their subjects that they look sexy is incredibly normal. It's often a requested "look". "Give me sexy." Your comment is beyond bizarre. You really think somebody in THAT situation would have punched the photographer?

OK, I'll tell you what, go to Alabama, Arkansas, or Kentucky and ask that question to any "country" type of man. Then on your way back, stop in Detroit, Philadelphia, or St. Louis and ask the "thug" type of guys that. For best results, take a gay male photographer with you and instruct him to call one of the guys "sexy" and you will have your answer.

And I never said a photographer saying "sexy" wasn't normal. But that doesn't make it right, nor does it mean Prince has to deal with it. And he didn't! Kudos to him! And for the record, I've never seen a male photographer tell another man he was sexy on a shoot that wasn't a "sexy" themed photoshoot. Nowhere have we read that the look requested was sexy. It seems it was about music, not looking sexy. It was for rolling stones after all. Herb Ritz crossed the line, whether intentional or unintentional, Prince didn't like it, and he split! Not really much to debate, just read what happened...

Oh myyyyyyy.........god. Your stereotyping is gonna get you into some trouble 'round these parts.

Japha11 said:

robinhood said:

not everyone ignored that post. but with all the drama about so-called sexual harassment, it was overlooked by many.

the loudest voice drowns everyone else out, until the softest voice comes along.

You're very right. I suppose your sig will prove to be right too in this thread lol

most likely lol, and yours too, as i'm still trying to understand human curiosity, but i think after this thread i might have a better idea

GetAwayFromMe said:

purpledoveuk said:

GetAwayFromMe said:

^^^^ haha very true!

...and incest....and home wrecking...and slapping women about because you might not get a slot at the local club...and not paying bills....not to mention drinking dirty bathwater Yep the guys a regular campaigner for womens rights

to be fair though, he reminds me of pepe le pew

The comment turned Prince on and he walked out because he was afraid he wouldn't be able to control himself and go after the man's dick. Since a confidentiality agreement hadn't been signed yet, he couldn't risk getting the dick and having the man possibly telling the world.

DaphneLovesPR1NCE said:

exodus said:

This is repoted to have happened during the Herb Ritts photo shoot. Prince was sitting on the piano with his heels on the keys and when Herb said how sexy it looked, Prince walked out and said to burn the negatives.

Prince letting the dude know don't say sh*t to him!! HE only wants women saying that!! Haven't some people realized this man is as straight as an arrow?!?!?! Herb is lucky, some guys would have punched him in the face! I don't blame Prince, that's rude and crossing the line! I would have walked out too!!

Your homophobic response is utter bullshit. Herb Ritts is one of the worlds greatest known photographers. He also known as an erotic photographer of men and women. Prince would have known exactly what he was getting into. And don't flatter yourself. Herb Ritts doesn't photograph just anyone, you wouldn't be able to walk in the door let alone walk out.

DaphneLovesPR1NCE said:

Spinlight said:

It's not rude or crossing the line. You're homophobic.

Don't misuse the word homophobic please. What that man did was cross the line. I'm not homophobic, but I don't want a lesbian telling me I"m sexy either. I don't want a straight woman telling me I"m sexy. It crosses the line and makes people feel uncomfortable..and it shouldn't be and ISN'T allowed in the workplace! And I don't know 1 straight man that wants a gay man telling them they are sexy!

You do now

I thought you were joking to start with. Pus Herb Ritts is hardly a spotty new kid on the block. The guy is bloody brilliant!

DaphneLovesPR1NCE said:

robinhood said:

or he could have said "cheers thanks, but i'd really appreciate it if you could stay quiet for this shoot, no hard feelings"

or is that just the difference between infants and adults?

You're right, he could have just told him thanks, but shut up. But if he was feeling uncomfortable, then you can't work like that. It's impossible to work when you feel someone is gawking at you and wanting you and if you don't want them back, it's so uncomforable. And he didn't have to work like that, so he left. Good for him!

I'm not sure that telling someone that they look sexy means you want to do them. It could just be a statement of fact.

If he said it to me, i'd say, damn right son!

Oh and did I mention it was HERB RITTS?

[Edited 9/30/10 12:09pm]

motherfunka said:

Vogue (From Controversy Magazine)

Ain't talkin' about Madonna's Vogue, this is Vogue magazine, the major fashion magazine which ordered a photo shoot on Prince by noted rock photgrapher Herb Ritts. Ritts has photgraphed Madonna and many others for Rolling Stone magazine covers, so he thought that he was experienced in dealing with rock stars, but was surprised to find that Prince wasn't quite what he expected.

On the other hand, Prince was no prima donna but a professional, a perfect gentleman who was willing to sit for Ritts from 10:00am to 7:30pm with nothing but a mug of herbal tea to sustain him. On the other hand, Ritts found that what Prince is professional at is being a musician and performer, not being a fashion model. When asked to pose, jump and spin for the camera, Prince said that he felt like an idiot when he tried to dance for a photographer, that it didn't feel natural to do it for the camera. They actually got along pretty well except for this little exchange below, whereby Ritts learned not to play up to Prince the way he would one of his models. Prince was asked to stand on top of the baby blue piano:

Prince: Tell me if this makes you want to puke.

Ritts: You look sensational

Prince: I can change if you want.

Ritts: Instead of standing, why don't you perch on the edge of the piano and pretend you're playing the keys with the heels of your yellow shoes?

After Prince complied, Ritts continued.

Ritts: You look great! You look so sexy!

Prince: Burn those negatives (walking off the set in a huff)!

Sounds like P. was tensed and insecure. So it probably didn't help him at expressing his discontentment in a clear way. Who can say what went through his mind?

It doesn't appear like there was any intention behind the photographer's comment but to motivate P. in a moment of self-doubt.

So why get so uptight?

P. definitely wasn't having a good day.

I don't think we can label somebody as "homophobic" just because of one particular situation that we don't know anything about.

I don't think we can accuse somebody of sexual harassment when their intention had nothing to do with a sexual proposal.

Jumping to conclusions when you cannot read other people's mind is never a good idea.

It is called projection.

Japha11 said:

motherfunka said:

Vogue (From Controversy Magazine)

Ain't talkin' about Madonna's Vogue, this is Vogue magazine, the major fashion magazine which ordered a photo shoot on Prince by noted rock photgrapher Herb Ritts. Ritts has photgraphed Madonna and many others for Rolling Stone magazine covers, so he thought that he was experienced in dealing with rock stars, but was surprised to find that Prince wasn't quite what he expected.

On the other hand, Prince was no prima donna but a professional, a perfect gentleman who was willing to sit for Ritts from 10:00am to 7:30pm with nothing but a mug of herbal tea to sustain him. On the other hand, Ritts found that what Prince is professional at is being a musician and performer, not being a fashion model. When asked to pose, jump and spin for the camera, Prince said that he felt like an idiot when he tried to dance for a photographer, that it didn't feel natural to do it for the camera. They actually got along pretty well except for this little exchange below, whereby Ritts learned not to play up to Prince the way he would one of his models. Prince was asked to stand on top of the baby blue piano:

Prince: Tell me if this makes you want to puke.

Ritts: You look sensational

Prince: I can change if you want.

Ritts: Instead of standing, why don't you perch on the edge of the piano and pretend you're playing the keys with the heels of your yellow shoes?

After Prince complied, Ritts continued.

Ritts: You look great! You look so sexy!

Prince: Burn those negatives (walking off the set in a huff)!

^^^Why is everyone ignoring this post?^^^

Cause many ppl on this thread would have to eat their previous posts after readin it...

or maybe they jus wanna prove their point so badly that they've read it and ignored it.

Some folks jus wanna be so right that they're unwillin to eat a bit of humble pie and say "I was wrong for sayin that"

klick2me said:

Oh Lord, what am I doing? Ok, I think Daph has a point. I only say that because I work production (Haagen Dazs IC) and anybody who works in a factory will tell you that it is a meat market, so to speak. I consider my self to be a good looking dude who just so happens to be happily married with many family members who are gay. Heck, my co-worker is a total butch and I love that girl. I do have to admit, many women at my workplace can be rather forward with me. They all know that I am totally committed to my beautiful wife and would not stray. Yet they make sexual comments to me all the time. And to be honest it makes me feel uncomfortable most of the time. These women even stare down at my crotch or butt while commenting.

I guess the point I am trying to make is that some people are fine with such comments while others feel uneasy. It doesn't make one homophobic if they are turned off by such comments. I wouldn't want a dude saying that to me. And we don't know exactly what happened during that photo shoot.

Klick

Woohoo! I know I am late but I want to put in my 2 cents. In the quoted post, the writer talkeda bout working in a factory. That is not the same circumstances as working in a photo shoot. The object in the factory is to produce goods... the object of a photo shoot is to project an image. Prince's image in many many pictures is S.E.X. He has taken photos, touching his chest or nipple with a hint of tongue peaking out of his mouth, he has taken pictures with his hair tassled in his eyes, holding a whipping cane in suggestive manner... etc These pictures evoked sexual stirrings, and that is the intended purpose. A photographer's job is to take photos that capture that desired image. To comment that Prince's pose was sexy is look a nurse or doctor assessing the pose and reporting the effect. Plain and simple. If the pose was ackward, or stiff, he should have said that as well.

The problem wasn't in the photographer saying it... it was Prince's reaction. I guess if photographer had said, "Prince, that pose is not working" (which is the opposite of the pose being sexy), then Prince would not have a problem with it? It is from the same intentions... the photographer was judging Prince's looks or pose. Because the photographer had something complimentary to say, that makes it sexual harrassment? But if it was negative, then the comment was appropriate??

[Edited 9/30/10 12:53pm]

JayJai said:

Japha11 said:

^^^Why is everyone ignoring this post?^^^

Cause many ppl on this thread would have to eat their previous posts after readin it...

or maybe they jus wanna prove their point so badly that they've read it and ignored it.

Some folks jus wanna be so right that they're unwillin to eat a bit of humble pie and say "I was wrong for sayin that"

Umm, no. No one is ignoring that post. Prince's actions were what they were and if it was because he was frustrated after the entire event, that still doesn't excuse the behavior. However, you have people up in here saying a homophobic reaction was the right thing to do - assuming Prince even took the comment as Herb flirting with him or making a pass at him. This thread would've been a whole lot shorter had people not jumped up in here with their "hell yeah, nobody wants a gay person complimenting them! i woulda beat their ass and so would a lot of people!" type of rhetoric.

Vendetta1 said:

First of all I am not taking that particular post as fact and second I don't believe Prince would be like that with Herb Ritts considering that they had worked together before or since. This thread did serve to show the bigotry and intolerance of some of its users towards gays though.

What I find particularly sad about it all is that people are so deeply ensconced in their heteronormative lifestyles that they have absolutely no idea what kind of offense they lobby about at other people without even knowing. It's the definition of ignorance to a T.

Here's a couple of pics taken by Herb Ritts of Prince. I don't know if this is the same photo shoot that is in question, but it would have been around the same time.

[img:$uid]http://i616.photobucket.com/albums/tt249/dboen/8X10%20Pics/DSC00875.jpg[/img:$uid]

motherfunka said:

Here's a couple of pics taken by Herb Ritts of Prince. I don't know if this is the same photo shoot that is in question, but it would have been around the same time.

[img:$uid]http://i616.photobucket.com/albums/tt249/dboen/8X10%20Pics/DSC00875.jpg[/img:$uid]

If Cat was there it would be circa 87/88. These pics (good pics i add) were for the greatest hits package around 94 i think - not completely sure

With regards to the whole "homophobic" Prince hating being called sexy, anyone actually thought that Prince had a pimple or just wasn't feeling at his best?

Prince has been known to cancel/walk out of things, he's a rock star with an ego.

Nobody was present, it has always been conjecture, as Mr Ritts isnt around, only Prince knows for sure and he ain't gonna post here folks!

fuzzface1973 said:

motherfunka said:

Here's a couple of pics taken by Herb Ritts of Prince. I don't know if this is the same photo shoot that is in question, but it would have been around the same time.

[img:$uid]http://i616.photobucket.com/albums/tt249/dboen/8X10%20Pics/DSC00875.jpg[/img:$uid]

If Cat was there it would be circa 87/88. These pics (good pics i add) were for the greatest hits package around 94 i think - not completely sure

With regards to the whole "homophobic" Prince hating being called sexy, anyone actually thought that Prince had a pimple or just wasn't feeling at his best?

Prince has been known to cancel/walk out of things, he's a rock star with an ego.

Nobody was present, it has always been conjecture, as Mr Ritts isnt around, only Prince knows for sure and he ain't gonna post here folks!

Cat was not there, the photo shoot was in 1991. These pics were used to promote the Hits package, but they were taken during Diamonds and Pearls. The hair, the beard, the cufflinks that say Insatiable...definitely D&P.

[Edited 9/30/10 17:32pm]

JudasLChrist said: