Yeah, I've seen Back to the Future pt. III.

Seamus McFly and all that. Mad Dog Tannen! God help us all!

Kelly,it's obvious that racial issues are too complex for your small brain to fully understand.Why don't you just go back to discussing "lesbians wearing bikinis at the beach"? Perhaps that's something you can actually relate to?

Kellyanne - it's great - you actually propogate your own demise every time you post!

You mean... posting here shortens your life expectancy??? Yikes!

welcum2thedawn said:

Mine will say HONKY.....

Solidarity with my lighter persuation brothers and sisters....

bkw said:

Can anyone say "Stolen Generation"?

jalokin said:

thats cause, deep down, he's an uneducated boob.....college, living a real life and lots of therapy might have done prince good....

DavidEye said:

And where, exactly, have you proven me wrong or even addressed my actual point at all effectively? Answer: NOWHERE.

kellyannemcclure said:

I'm going to do the civilized thing and not respond to your flame baits. I will just reiterate that remembering the past and planning for the future are not mutually exclusive--that is, one's focus on history does not mean the s/he is not focusing on "the business at hand." It's not and either/or proposition but a both/and deal.

Additionally, you seemed to have failed to understand the impact that slavery has had on the United States, in terms of accumulated wealth and power and accumulated poverty and disadvantage. There are several studies that--should you be interested--can enlighten you in this regard.

Most scholars agree that slavery 100% totally shaped and altered the following institutions in America which by nature we all inherited: education, politics (all three branches--judicial, executive, and legislative), religion, family, finance, market/mass culture, art, music, literature, etc.

We are not born into a vacuum and if we are to navigate through these things that were here upon our birth, the wise among us will seek to understand how they got to be the way they are. That's what scientists do: they seek to break things down into their origins in order to understand their make up in order to alter the composition of those things. Whether it's chemistry or society... people who are interested in making a change MUST start with origins.

Now with regard to the plight of the Irish, as you have so emphatically pointed out in your postings, yes, you are right... most Irish came to America in the mid 1800s and many were too poor to own slaves themselves. And you are right, many had to change their names and assimilate as best as they could into an "American nationality" in order to progress in America.

Do you know how they did that? They became "white." Yes, they became white. "Whiteness" as an identity came to birth in America through the incorporation of all of Europe's children who came to America seeking opportunity. For the longest while "American" equaled "white" (let us not forget that it was not until after the Civil War that the U.S. Constitution was amended to include Africans in America in the definition of U.S. citizenship). So becoming "American" meant becoming "white." And what was "white"? It was "not black." In other words, European ethnic immigrants came to America and adopted an American nationality that was weighted down with race... their identity was constructed against an "Other"--"black" which came to be in their imagination everything that they did NOT want to be, everything that was NOT American. Becoming American meant you could enjoy the privileges of being a White person. White-skin privilege, which even the poorest white person enjoyed... no matter how down and out that poor white person was, he or she could ALWAYS look out across the tracks and thankfully say to themselves, "Well at least I'm not white."

The arrival of many of these immigrants to America at the same time that America had to contend with a newly freed population caused several problems in the workplace. Whites had been used to the FREE labor of slaves, and now that these ex-slaves wanted to be paid for their labor, they came into competition with the poor white workers... and guess what happened? Massive riots which often resulted in the whole sale murder of black men, women, and children. During the Civil War, there were draft riots by white draftees who did not want to fight in the war, and guess who they attacked? Blacks.

Now, I don't know if your great great grandfather was involved in any of these riots, but I bring this up only to point out to you that NO ONE who has come to America and enjoyed its benefits can say that s/he has not benefited from slavery and all the baggage that came with it.

If you don't believe some of what I have said, I would suggest you read up on folk like David Roediger (sp?) a white scholar who has examined the construction of white identity, esp. among the Irish in the 1800s, along with Elizabeth Hale, another leading whiteness studies scholar.
One last note: I am a student of history, but I do not use history to keep me captive to powerlessness... I use history as a tool for freeing us from the ignorance and misunderstandings that have some of us wandering around without a map trying to find our place and where we should go. I have gone quite far in my short life, and plan to go even further with a Master's degree on the way and a Ph.D. not too far behind.

NuPwrSoul said:

Typo: meant to say ....and thankfully say to themselves, "Well at least I'm not black."

I'm going to do the civilized thing and not respond to your flame baits. I will just reiterate that remembering the past and planning for the future are not mutually exclusive--that is, one's focus on history does not mean the s/he is not focusing on "the business at hand." It's not and either/or proposition but a both/and deal.

Who said I was baiting you, you dumb monkey? As a matter of fact, it does mean that. Yours is for the most part a culture of laziness and wanting to be the victim because it's easier.

Additionally, you seemed to have failed to understand the impact that slavery has had on the United States, in terms of accumulated wealth and power and accumulated poverty and disadvantage. There are several studies that--should you be interested--can enlighten you in this regard.

I haven't failed to understand anything. I just get over it or never cared to begin with. So you're saying slavery had lasting effects? No shit! I already acknowledged that it did when I mentioned the famine had similar effects on the people of Ireland. Yet the Irish have moved on. We're not looking for reparations, tax breaks or discount coffee.

Most scholars agree that slavery 100% totally shaped and altered the following institutions in America which by nature we all inherited: education, politics (all three branches--judicial, executive, and legislative), religion, family, finance, market/mass culture, art, music, literature, etc.

If you don't like it, go back to Africa. Whatever impact slavery had on anything, it is still a thing of the past.

We are not born into a vacuum and if we are to navigate through these things that were here upon our birth, the wise among us will seek to understand how they got to be the way they are. That's what scientists do: they seek to break things down into their origins in order to understand their make up in order to alter the composition of those things. Whether it's chemistry or society... people who are interested in making a change MUST start with origins.

Spin your wheels. Smoke your crack and continue to go nowhere. Dwelling on history is a monumental waste of time when your facing the problems of the future headon. What do you think will come of it? You want reparations? For what? If you're not satisfied with your education, your family life, your home, just leave here. You're not wanted. Good plan. Plenty of people had it far worse than you and they weren't all black.

Now with regard to the plight of the Irish, as you have so emphatically pointed out in your postings, yes, you are right... most Irish came to America in the mid 1800s and many were too poor to own slaves themselves. And you are right, many had to change their names and assimilate as best as they could into an "American nationality" in order to progress in America.

Mentioning it once or twice alongside the near genocide of the Jews or slavery for the blacks hardly qualifies as mentioning it emphatically. I used it from the beginning to illustrate that as much as they want to believe it, blacks are not history's only victims.

Do you know how they did that? They became "white." Yes, they became white. "Whiteness" as an identity came to birth in America through the incorporation of all of Europe's children who came to America seeking opportunity. For the longest while "American" equaled "white" (let us not forget that it was not until after the Civil War that the U.S. Constitution was amended to include Africans in America in the definition of U.S. citizenship). So becoming "American" meant becoming "white." And what was "white"? It was "not black." In other words, European ethnic immigrants came to America and adopted an American nationality that was weighted down with race... their identity was constructed against an "Other"--"black" which came to be in their imagination everything that they did NOT want to be, everything that was NOT American. Becoming American meant you could enjoy the privileges of being a White person. White-skin privilege, which even the poorest white person enjoyed... no matter how down and out that poor white person was, he or she could ALWAYS look out across the tracks and thankfully say to themselves, "Well at least I'm not white."

So, you've read "How the Irish Became White," eh? I'm not really impressed with your academic credentials, because you lack basic common sense. Slavery is over. The Irish were the blacks of Europe. You want to dwell on the fact that slavery happened, you're wasting your time and not mine. Go for it. Sit on a street corner, drink your alcohol hidden in a paper bag and watch everyone pass you by while you wait around for you slavery benefit on your tax return. You'd jump at the chance for that wouldn't you? For all those long, hard years you spent at your Massa's side.

The arrival of many of these immigrants to America at the same time that America had to contend with a newly freed population caused several problems in the workplace. Whites had been used to the FREE labor of slaves, and now that these ex-slaves wanted to be paid for their labor, they came into competition with the poor white workers... and guess what happened? Massive riots which often resulted in the whole sale murder of black men, women, and children. During the Civil War, there were draft riots by white draftees who did not want to fight in the war, and guess who they attacked? Blacks.

Yawn. Survival of the fittest. Sucks to be you.

Now, I don't know if your great great grandfather was involved in any of these riots, but I bring this up only to point out to you that NO ONE who has come to America and enjoyed its benefits can say that s/he has not benefited from slavery and all the baggage that came with it.

Slavery is not the reason behind every crime committed by a black man. Black rage is not a valid excuse for a damn thing. Change begins with an individual and begins when that individual can realize that the FUTURE INVOLVES MAKING THE SITUATION BETTER THAN IT WAS IN THE PAST.

If you don't believe some of what I have said, I would suggest you read up on folk like David Roediger (sp?) a white scholar who has examined the construction of white identity, esp. among the Irish in the 1800s, along with Elizabeth Hale, another leading whiteness studies scholar.

Sorry stud, but I don't need to read to discriminate between white authors and black authors. Since you pointed it out though, it sounds like it's a hangup of yours, though.

One last note: I am a student of history, but I do not use history to keep me captive to powerlessness... I use history as a tool for freeing us from the ignorance and misunderstandings that have some of us wandering around without a map trying to find our place and where we should go. I have gone quite far in my short life, and plan to go even further with a Master's degree on the way and a Ph.D. not too far behind.

No, you use history to ramble on a Prince message board about the most monumnentally insiginifcant cause imaginable. I have a few suggestions where you can go...

So you're saying it had lasting effects? No shit!

Thank you so much for cutting and pasting my post within yours so people can compare the quality and civility of the discussion and see who the real monkey, crackhead, etc. is.

NuPwrSoul said:

You're very welcome, as I happen to be none of those things and you quite clearly are, even with your oft-boasted education. I've been to class too, dear. You even look like the typical confrontational minority type in your photo. TRY TO FUCKING SMILE, PAPI.

As a sidenote, civility means nothing on prince.org where have you been, you dumb fuck?
[This message was edited Tue Mar 5 11:27:26 PST 2002 by kellyannemcclure]

This is a clear example of the POWER of the media to sway public opinion one way or the other. First, let the record speak for itself, Princes' fan base IS more "white." Truth is truth. Next, this reporter says Prince singled out a white fan, yet the reporter failed to also mention that Prince singled out a black fan within the same context as the white fan. This reporters comments will be seen by an untold number of people; some of whom are Prince fans...most whom are not. Right here on P.org, people had strong opinions about the singling out of the white fan UNTIL they learned that a black fan was singled out as well. At that point, those humble enough to admit having been too harsh w/ their opinions said such. While those not humble enough "changed" their actual views to say something very less and/or different then what they initially said. And, of course, there were those who even when confronted w/ the truth, STILL sided with the incomplete view of the reporter. Luckily, we here at P.org caught wind of the fact that P singled out a black person as well; putting all this mess to rest. But, how about all the people out there who will read this review and not be aware of that fact? They will rationalize this review as yet one more reason as to why they never liked Prince, why they stopped liking Prince, why Prince is a has been, why Prince just needs to just go away, etc. Had the reporter quoeted the ENTIRE singling out bit in explaining his confusion of the song "The Family Name", then chances would have been much greater for a broader public curiosity to what Prince is saying in the song. But since the reporter was confused (he WAS humble enough to admit to being confused, BUT not humble enough to research and review on the facts), he made an even worse mistake by providing only half the story which when read, only further confuses, divides and alienates fans and non-fans alike. Do I think the reporter did this on purpose? Was that the reporters intend? ABSOLUTELY not. I think he wrote an honest review solely from his own personal PERSPECTIVE; which by the way did not INCLUDE the mention of a black (PERSPECTIVE) person also being singled out. So, my question/couriosity is, WHY does this reporter (be he black, white or whatever) who lacks a BROAD perspective have the POWER of the media to sway public opinion??? Where are the checks and balances? Why does the media in general have a limited perspective? How was it this reporter did not realize the importance of including the fact that a black fan was singled out as well in his review? In the nutshell, ACCURATE knowledge of GOD and his SON is the only way. Until EVERYBODY has much better knowledge, things ain't changing. As I learn more about the TRUTH, I can't help but be humble and the more humble I become the more LOVE4ONEANOTHER I feel for each and EVERY one of YOU, THE RAINBOW CHILDREN! Side note, I think the caricatures(sp?) on the artwork of TRC suggests that the NPG have their sight set on being the FIRST of GOD's children in the MUSIC BUSINESS to take the music away from big business and give it back to the creators of the music and to the listening public via the spreading of accurate knowledge of GOD and his SON. I hope to be around long enough in THIS world to see the NPG make a dent in doing that. Thanks for listening. And, lastly, Wellbeyond, you GO, boy!!! Kellyanne is intelligent, witty and insightful, however, you are all those things IN ADDITION to being WISE and MATURE. Kellyanne has promise to be one of the great ones on this site, just at this time she does not have the wisdom to know the difference. Alot of people "listen" to you here at P.org, Kellyanne. As long as you continue to visit this site, whether you like or not...whether you want it or not, there is RESPONSIBLITY to go along w/ having that sort of influence. You need to start acting like you know!!! Or, at least pretending like you know. least then you would be sharing SOME wisdom. I know, I know, you don't care NOR are interested in what I think/say nor what anyone else thinks/says. Thing is ACTIONS speak louder then words and if I didn't care about Prince or this site or these people on this site, I certainly would not be coming here w/ ANYTHING to say, PEROID. I'd blow my time checking sites of TRUE interests to me such as Madonna, Sting, U2 etc sites...certainly NOT this one. But anyway, Kellyanne, you going to the Celebration??? See you there; along w/ the rest of you fellow FAMS who can make it this year!!!
Peace in the Middle East,
Jtea4p

jtea4p said:

Could we please combine this thread with the Abraham Lincoln thread? Typing the same thing twice might even annoy that windbag wellbeyond (note, I wrote 'might' annoy him). Where are you extracting your data that tells you that Prince's fanbase is more white than black? Are you basing this on a recent concert? Keep in mind that Prince's ticket prices are so high that maybe only affluent the more white audiences can afford to see him.

As wellbeyond has rambled on endlessly, Prince could not have "singled out" more than one person. But whomever reported that originally should have made it clear that both a white and a black audience member were picked out of the crowd. I still think what Prince did was intrusive as the white person no doubt felt betrayed by the whole ordeal. Prince should learn to illustrate and not alienate at the same time.

You were almost making sense until you said:

"In the nutshell, ACCURATE knowledge of GOD and his SON is the only way."

Fucking Bible Beaters are everywhere.

SkletonKee said:

Dude, I'd LOVE to wrap my brain around Kellyanne's valid point, but first I gotta know: who the hell is Prine?

CalhounSq said:

John Prine...often comes up on sites like CDNOW.com when searching for Prince alphabetically by artist.

Prine? I didnt type Prine? What you talking bout Willis?

All I can say is if Prince points his finger and singles me out for any reason except for saying,"I'm giving this audience member a million dollars!", I will have no problem with cursing him the fuck out if he dares to put any negativity on me. If we pay our hard earned money for his show, he'd better not make anyone uncomfortable.

Larry's fucked up his mind beyond repair, and it's a godamn shame. His Abe Lincoln crap is getting tiresome. he's been going on about that for years, and for what? So Abe had an opinion, who gives a fuck? He's been dead for a long time. All this whining about the past is going nowhere. He should spend more time on his music than listening to Larry's mumbo jumbo. Fuck those pricks.

Kellyanne, unless I am reading your response incorrectly, I have to come back to say that Wellbeyond is the one who clearly stated that the reporter neglected to mention the black fan being singled out as well. Way up yonder in this threat Wellbeyond made mention of it. And, really, the more I think about it, I don't understand why people are all bent over backwards because an audience member was asked his name, then told no, your name is now Tom Lynch. Like, so what???
It should have been totally apparent that Prince was using "skit" to make a point for a song, and was not actually being derogatory to any one individual. And, too, what IS derogatory about being told your name is now Tom Lynch at a pop concert of all places??? How does one HONESTLY feel betrayed being called that in the context of that moment at the concert? Embarrassed maybe because for a hot second, they have Princes' undivided attention; eye ball to eyeball. Betrayed??? Hmmmm. Now, if people are up in arms over the implication...that white men use to run around lynching people; well, that was TRUE; just like the black winos you see sitting on street corners asking for hand outs. So, on one hand, it is not okay to make reference (in particular at a pop concert) to horrendous acts committed on one group of people by another group back in the day...BUT, it is okay to callously and non remorsefully make flipid comments about how the black wino needs to stop beggin' and get himself a job??? And on that subject, what does it do to the pschye of a man; men who have NO protection under the law from being hung basically for the sake of SPORT? And, them men had families to raise, etc. Oh, and out of curiosity, when was the last lynching you heard about??? Well, does being tied to a car and dragged to death count? That happened to a black man in Texas 3 or so years ago. Kellyanne, who you are today, did not happen over night. You were grown into the person you are today by your parents who had parents who had parents whose parents parents did or did not vote for Lincoln (least they could vote...oh, wait, you're a descendant of Ireland, right?). What I really want to say is none of us are far removed from the days black folks got freed nor from that ways of thinking that was the majority back then. Not intending to offer a cop out or anything like that...yet, some of these winos you see on the street likely would appreciate a smile from you rather then the middle finger. And had people in power been CIVIL in the very beginning, we very likely today would not be sitting here tripping on a white fan being called Tom Lynch at the concert of a black man who no longer works for the record industry. Dang, we got issues, huh??? Problem is there aren't enough bible beaters around teaching the TRUE word. Lot's of them of every religion are around wearing the gown...not many of those preaching the TRUE word.
Peace in the Middle East,
Jtea4P

I can't really decide between and ...

XxAxX said:[quote]see what i mean? words can hurt. and yes, LadyCabDriver, i WAS just making a point. i do NOT call my black friends by derogatory names, and wouldn't expect them to call me *lynch* either.

Lynch is HARDLY a derogatory word...."nigger" IS...

"You even look like the typical confrontational minority type in your photo. TRY TO FUCKING SMILE, PAPI."

I gotta say I thought that was pretty funny!

My opinion on this subject is that it is EQUALLY IMPORTANT to understand the effects of history as it is to MOVE FORWARD and not dwell on it. To be sure slavery has directly resulted in the poor environment that blacks live in today BUT at the same time everybody has to take responsibility for themselves. Go educate yourself like NWPWRSOUL is doing with his degrees. Plenty of colleges offer the opportunity to study history from a non-Eurocentric point of view.

I wonder if it's possible to answer this question without wavering (doubt it) but is what an individual (say a black man) does on a daily basis to improve his life or the history of African Americans in America more to blame for that individuals' circumstance???

The bitch said: Who said I was baiting you, you dumb monkey? As a matter of fact, it does mean that. Yours is for the most part a culture of laziness and wanting to be the victim because it's easier. Those of you who have been reading prior threads know who these vital words belong to. If no one has noticed by now her reply's are alllaced with racial stereotypical comments. It makes me wonder how long this shit has been building up under the surface. The chance to yell out nigger in it's most vulger use.

Kellyanne just needs a raw and wallbangin thick dick in her ass. Some brotha style shit to gett her off. She's too damn aggressive and shit. Maybe then she can sit down and chat over a cup of tea and irish biscuits like a civilized women should.

divo02 said:

Oh I must've missed that... Uh huh. Funny.

Any black man that challenges the nonsese drivel coming from a white person usually gets tagged as being a "typical confrontational minority type" or an "uppity nigger." Nothing new there.

NuPwrSoul said:

Nah it's more like I can laugh at kellyanne just like I can laugh at a black comedian mocking out white people. I don't agree with kellyanne...i just thought what she said was funny. I didn't label you at all...in fact I complimented you.

Prince offered two models for what could have been a great concert on Saturday. One would have been devoted entirely to "The Rainbow Children"

That would be just too good for anyone to be allowed to see it.

I thought usa had free speech?????

It's because you don't understand why he's saying what he's saying, that he's saying what he's saying. Most of you that were born in the late 70's early 80's should sit down and talk to a black person in their mid 40's and older. Ask them if it's true that, before 1965, they had to go to all black schools. Usually, it COULDN'T start until October. Because, the cotton had to be picked first. Ask them is it true that most black school, back then only went up to the 8th grade. Can you imagine the demand for 8th grade educated blacks in the 30's, 40's, or 50's. Can you you began to see the cycle that America had created for the black people of this country. Let's "forget" the fact that black people in most of the US had to live "on their side of the tracks". If they didn't, how could they afford a nice big home with that 8th grade education. If I'm not mistaken, Prince is in his mid 40's. Why would not be allowed to express his feeling about how he, his family and or friends have been treating and not given a fair opportunity to succeed. Not until some of you, like the one white person being singled out at his show, really understand the damage done and realize your apathy and desire to just forget it as if it never happen, on add's fuel to the fire. For those of you that do get it, help one of your white bro's and sis's out. Then maybe we can move on. See, despite what you may think, we as black people would never leave you behind as if we don't care. We want you to be educated, we're a forgiving people.