Printable XxAxX said: i see brian, so you're saying that inflammatory words are okay as long as they make a point? fine. if prince ever calls me *lynch* i'll feel free to shout back *nigger* at him
I think a better way to think about this is that the audience member is essentially a cast member in the performance that Prince is putting on. In that context, I don't see a problem with what he's doing. Inflammatory words are OK IMHO in the context of an artistic performance with an overall message. However, your use of the "N" word would not be acceptable. The difference is that one is inflammatory, the other is a word used by whites to oppress blacks. That's an essential difference. Thus, an acceptable response IMHO would be "Shut up Mo-Fo, P you're an a-hole, etc.", but not use of the "N" word. If Prince wanted to incorporate that word's use into the show, that would be fine. Sorry if you fail to see why it's OK for Prince to use that term and not OK for you to use it, but that's a larger discussion for another day. No Candy 4 Me | |
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welcum2thedawn said: Brian, why is it "clear" that he was simply making a point? Maybe he really hates white people for what my ancestors did to his ancestors...
I don't think the two are necessarily mutually exclusive. No Candy 4 Me | |
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He is just illustrating a point.
For those with a remotely intelligent mind, the Abraham Lincoln text is used critically. Prince is using the text to expose Lincoln and explode his image, he is not advocating it. In the same way, by re-naming BOTH BLACK AND WHITE audience members he is SIMPLY illustrating the topic of the song and conveying the realities of the slave trade and how individuals would have felt. There is no way Prince is harassing you. Do you think that the WHITE and BLACK NPGMC members who accessed the souncheck felt harassed? Do you think the front-row audience members who got to play percussion instruments with Prince on the Santana medley felt racially antagonised or excluded? | |
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welcum2thedawn said: Are you of European ancestry? I'm what I call a Mutt-American. I don't know what I am anymore and I think it's silly for most Americans to claim some other heritage anymore. Let's just say I have to wear a lot of sunscreen and it's aggrivated by Buffalo's 8 month long winters. Oh, I'm not pleased at all about Prince's "lynch" antics if they are what that Chicago pop-critic says they are. I think it's stupid, unneccesary and racist, but it wouldn't bother me. It really doesn't surprise me that he'd do that though. It's got great shock value doesn't it? He probably just wants to increase is minority fan base. I'm not dissagreeing with you, Welcum, but I'd sure hate to throw away the most expensive tickets I've ever bought because Prince was being Prince. Controversy | |
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Antony7 said: He is just illustrating a point.
For those with a remotely intelligent mind, the Abraham Lincoln text is used critically. Prince is using the text to expose Lincoln and explode his image, he is not advocating it. In the same way, by re-naming BOTH BLACK AND WHITE audience members he is SIMPLY illustrating the topic of the song and conveying the realities of the slave trade and how individuals would have felt. There is no way Prince is harassing you. Do you think that the WHITE and BLACK NPGMC members who accessed the souncheck felt harassed? Do you think the front-row audience members who got to play percussion instruments with Prince on the Santana medley felt racially antagonised or excluded? No but the white guy who was called Lynch probably did. Maybe at the soundcheck, I'll be able to inrtoduce myself as Mr. Lynch... Peace Out, Trout!! | |
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BanishedBrian said: XxAxX said: i see brian, so you're saying that inflammatory words are okay as long as they make a point? fine. if prince ever calls me *lynch* i'll feel free to shout back *nigger* at him
I think a better way to think about this is that the audience member is essentially a cast member in the performance that Prince is putting on. In that context, I don't see a problem with what he's doing. Inflammatory words are OK IMHO in the context of an artistic performance with an overall message. However, your use of the "N" word would not be acceptable. The difference is that one is inflammatory, the other is a word used by whites to oppress blacks. That's an essential difference. Thus, an acceptable response IMHO would be "Shut up Mo-Fo, P you're an a-hole, etc.", but not use of the "N" word. If Prince wanted to incorporate that word's use into the show, that would be fine. Sorry if you fail to see why it's OK for Prince to use that term and not OK for you to use it, but that's a larger discussion for another day. We are certainly not 'cast members.' I'm not part of the act if I'm paying $100.00 a seat. Peace Out, Trout!! | |
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GotAttitudeWithoutDynasty said: welcum2thedawn said: Are you of European ancestry? I'm what I call a Mutt-American. I don't know what I am anymore and I think it's silly for most Americans to claim some other heritage anymore. Let's just say I have to wear a lot of sunscreen and it's aggrivated by Buffalo's 8 month long winters. Oh, I'm not pleased at all about Prince's "lynch" antics if they are what that Chicago pop-critic says they are. I think it's stupid, unneccesary and racist, but it wouldn't bother me. It really doesn't surprise me that he'd do that though. It's got great shock value doesn't it? He probably just wants to increase is minority fan base. I'm not dissagreeing with you, Welcum, but I'd sure hate to throw away the most expensive tickets I've ever bought because Prince was being Prince. Controversy I would toss those tickets over the mere principle! Peace Out, Trout!! | |
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welcum2thedawn said: BanishedBrian said: XxAxX said: i see brian, so you're saying that inflammatory words are okay as long as they make a point? fine. if prince ever calls me *lynch* i'll feel free to shout back *nigger* at him
I think a better way to think about this is that the audience member is essentially a cast member in the performance that Prince is putting on. In that context, I don't see a problem with what he's doing. Inflammatory words are OK IMHO in the context of an artistic performance with an overall message. However, your use of the "N" word would not be acceptable. The difference is that one is inflammatory, the other is a word used by whites to oppress blacks. That's an essential difference. Thus, an acceptable response IMHO would be "Shut up Mo-Fo, P you're an a-hole, etc.", but not use of the "N" word. If Prince wanted to incorporate that word's use into the show, that would be fine. Sorry if you fail to see why it's OK for Prince to use that term and not OK for you to use it, but that's a larger discussion for another day. We are certainly not 'cast members.' I'm not part of the act if I'm paying $100.00 a seat. OK, have you never been to a comedy show? The fact that you pay money to see a show doesn't mean you aren't part of the show. I guess next time I go see George Carlin live and he points at me in the audience and says something, I'll scream "I paid $100 I'm not supposed to be part of the show." lol. I guess when Prince invites people onto the stage to dance, they aren't part of the show either? I guess when Prince stops singing the words so that the audience can sing along they aren't part of the show either? The fact that some people react so strongly against what he is doing is EXACTLY why he needs to keep doing it IMHO. No Candy 4 Me | |
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Lookie here...
My point is that once again, IMHO, I don't need to be harassed at a concert, which i am attending for the enjoyment of an art-form, in order for some man on a mission to get his "beat like a dead horse point, across. My mama didn't raise a racist. Maybe if he calls me Lynch, i'll run up on the stage and beg his forgiveness because of what happened hundreds of years ago... Peace Out, Trout!! | |
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When you say "lookie here," use your best Foghorn Leghorn voice! Peace Out, Trout!! | |
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and after all this...when and if I go to Buffalo...
i ain't signin' i ain't dancin' and i ain't playin' no cowbell! but, if i go to the afterparty, i know i'll get harassed by security, probably because i'm Mr. Lynch! I think I'll buy another NPGMC membership under the name of Lynch just for kicks. Sincerely, Mr. I. M. Lynch Peace Out, Trout!! | |
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well, we DO have a difference of opinion here brian.t
IMO he fact that people react so strongly against what he is saying would be a reason for him to NOT use racist slurs at his concerts. BanishedBrian said: welcum2thedawn said: BanishedBrian said: XxAxX said: i see brian, so you're saying that inflammatory words are okay as long as they make a point? fine. if prince ever calls me *lynch* i'll feel free to shout back *nigger* at him
I think a better way to think about this is that the audience member is essentially a cast member in the performance that Prince is putting on. In that context, I don't see a problem with what he's doing. Inflammatory words are OK IMHO in the context of an artistic performance with an overall message. However, your use of the "N" word would not be acceptable. The difference is that one is inflammatory, the other is a word used by whites to oppress blacks. That's an essential difference. Thus, an acceptable response IMHO would be "Shut up Mo-Fo, P you're an a-hole, etc.", but not use of the "N" word. If Prince wanted to incorporate that word's use into the show, that would be fine. Sorry if you fail to see why it's OK for Prince to use that term and not OK for you to use it, but that's a larger discussion for another day. We are certainly not 'cast members.' I'm not part of the act if I'm paying $100.00 a seat. OK, have you never been to a comedy show? The fact that you pay money to see a show doesn't mean you aren't part of the show. I guess next time I go see George Carlin live and he points at me in the audience and says something, I'll scream "I paid $100 I'm not supposed to be part of the show." lol. I guess when Prince invites people onto the stage to dance, they aren't part of the show either? I guess when Prince stops singing the words so that the audience can sing along they aren't part of the show either? The fact that some people react so strongly against what he is doing is EXACTLY why he needs to keep doing it IMHO. | |
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what a tangled thread we weave... Peace Out, Trout!! | |
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tNPGMC should sell white t-shirts with the word LYNCH for sale at the concerts to save prince the time of singling out white folks | |
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Prince is just trying to get people talking. Controversy. | |
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XxAxX said: tNPGMC should sell white t-shirts with the word LYNCH for sale at the concerts to save prince the time of singling out white folks
ROFL!!!! I think I'll wear my own that says Whitie! Peace Out, Trout!! | |
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gracious. i must say, i haven't felt this disappointed by prince since last spring, when i first read the lyrics to TRC
this has not been a good year for my appreciation of prince | |
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slm4m said: Prince is just trying to get people talking. Controversy.
Nope, he's trying to piss of the white folks... Peace Out, Trout!! | |
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welcum2thedawn said: slm4m said: Prince is just trying to get people talking. Controversy.
Nope, he's trying to piss off the white folks... Peace Out, Trout!! | |
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yes, he has a valid point. but he doesn't have to become an asshole in order to protest assholes | |
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welcum2thedawn said: I would toss those tickets over the mere principle!
Yeah, but you're still going aren't you? Come on, tell the truth? 
I catagorically agree with you, we are NOT cast members at $100 a ticket. Pick on someone who's not putting food on your table. Calling someone Lynch, is just not necessary. Why does he need to make that kind of point to a buch of people who just want to have a good time. Racial comments are just not fun or entertaining. | |
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If NPGMC members are in the front rows, everyone is going to know about this little "skit" as the show travels across the country. That will change the outcome (i.e., people will have a response ready, some little snappy comeback). Then Prince will probably stop doing it, since he won't be able to control what happens, which will interfere with his point.
Maybe. __________________________________________
"You can always change your underwear." | |
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Interesting that the critic didn't mention that Prince ALSO renamed a BLACK audience member...he asked the white person what their last name was, they said "Rhodes"...the then said "you're name is now 'Lynch'.."...then went to a black person, and said "you're name's now 'Rhodes'.."...the point??..Well, if "you"--a white person--don't like being called "Lynch" by a freakin' SINGER for 5 minutes...how the HELL do you think BLACKS have felt being renamed "Lynch" by a fucking slave owner, and having that be their family name for 350 years???....
Now..how the FUCK is that "assaulting" anyone??...Geez... It's a bit hilarious that when "Family Name" has someone renaming a black slave "Tom Lynch", very few on here came forth and said "God, that's awful...naming a BLACK man Tom Lynch...what Prince is saying with 'Family Name' is right"...it apparently was just another lyric to sing along to to most...that is, until someone at a concert gets called "lynch", THEN it's worth getting pissed off about...lol... And BanishedBrian is 100% correct...we ARE part of the "performance"...and we are GLADLY...that is, when Prince yanks our fat, flabby asses on stage to dance for the rest of the audience, we don't mind...when he hands out tamborines and cowbells to play along with the band, we don't give a shit, do we...when he does a call-and-response with us to help him sing, we don't yell out "Fuck you!!..I'm paying YOU to sing, motherfucker!!.."....All performers--at least the good ones--use their audience in their performance... Some woman once asked Richard Pryor during one of his concerts what happened to his chest hair(his shirt was unbuttoned)...Richard shot back "What happened to my chest hair??...I never had any chest hair...what happened to your pussy??"....Of course the audience howled...I wonder how that woman felt having thousands of people surrounding her and laughing about her pussy??...and I wonder how many of you on this thread would have laughed RIGHT the fuck along with it, and never ONCE thought "she paid her $$$, she should be assaulted!!"... People get WAY too fucking sensitive when it comes to what Prince does or says...fuck it, he's an ENTERTAINER, he's not the Pope... | |
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Prince re-named both WHITE and BLACK audience members as an illustration of the song 'Family Name'.
It's a simple analogy. A scenario setter. Nothing more. | |
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oh dear. i didn't know he named both black and white folks. that puts an entirely different spin on things.
sorry prince. guess you aren't the fucker i thought you were | |
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wellbeyond said: Interesting that the critic didn't mention that Prince ALSO renamed a BLACK audience member...he asked the white person what their last name was, they said "Rhodes"...the then said "you're name is now 'Lynch'.."...then went to a black person, and said "you're name's now 'Rhodes'.."...the point??..Well, if "you"--a white person--don't like being called "Lynch" by a freakin' SINGER for 5 minutes...how the HELL do you think BLACKS have felt being renamed "Lynch" by a fucking slave owner, and having that be their family name for 350 years???....
Now..how the FUCK is that "assaulting" anyone??...Geez... It's a bit hilarious that when "Family Name" has someone renaming a black slave "Tom Lynch", very few on here came forth and said "God, that's awful...naming a BLACK man Tom Lynch...what Prince is saying with 'Family Name' is right"...it apparently was just another lyric to sing along to to most...that is, until someone at a concert gets called "lynch", THEN it's worth getting pissed off about...lol... And BanishedBrian is 100% correct...we ARE part of the "performance"...and we are GLADLY...that is, when Prince yanks our fat, flabby asses on stage to dance for the rest of the audience, we don't mind...when he hands out tamborines and cowbells to play along with the band, we don't give a shit, do we...when he does a call-and-response with us to help him sing, we don't yell out "Fuck you!!..I'm paying YOU to sing, motherfucker!!.."....All performers--at least the good ones--use their audience in their performance... Some woman once asked Richard Pryor during one of his concerts what happened to his chest hair(his shirt was unbuttoned)...Richard shot back "What happened to my chest hair??...I never had any chest hair...what happened to your pussy??"....Of course the audience howled...I wonder how that woman felt having thousands of people surrounding her and laughing about her pussy??...and I wonder how many of you on this thread would have laughed RIGHT the fuck along with it, and never ONCE thought "she paid her $$$, she should be assaulted!!"... People get WAY too fucking sensitive when it comes to what Prince does or says...fuck it, he's an ENTERTAINER, he's not the Pope... Blah, blahbidy, blah!  | |
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GotAttitudeWithoutDynasty said: Blah, blahbidy, blah!
The depth of intelligence held within that retort is blinding... | |
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The fact that he re-named both BLACK and WHITE audience members makes all the difference you moron. RE-READ you're own 'argument' ... oh, sorry you haven't got one.
What a no-brainer. | |
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Prince offered two models for what could have been a great concert on Saturday. One would have been devoted entirely to "The Rainbow Children"--though if he took this route, it would have been nice if he really did explain his concept and engage in a dialogue with the audience...
Oh, HELL no...lol..I don't want a Prince concert to turn into a musical think tank or group therapy...he doesn't need to "engage in a dialogue" with the audience beyond a comment here and there... ...instead of doing what was clearly carefully scripted shtick. (Never one to reveal anything too personal, the Artist made no mention of the fact that his mother died at age 68 only two weeks ago.)
From another post on the Tribune thread: "I am surprised that none of the reports so far have mentioned anything about how little Prince danced. He did in fact seem to me to be a little down. He did very little dancing walked off stage several times and even sat with his head bowed at one point during the performance. He talked alot about losing someone you love and the troubled times in which we live. My guess is he still suffers some from his Mothers passing, and who could blame him after all." If this critic was looking(hoping) for Prince to somehow address the loss of his parents, I wonder how he missed all this??.... Unlike some on here, I'm not about to bash this critic for this review...overall I think it's an honest take on how they were personally effected by the experience...I do think, of course, that he didn't quite "get" certain things that took place in the concert...and I REALLY don't think that he "knows" what Prince's fans are craving if he feels a "Greatest Hits" tour is what we're after(not to mention that he just did one last year..lol)...I also wish he had spent a lil more time with critiquing the music--he sums up Prince's performance in one sentence; "Prince's guitar playing and various vocal styles never sounded better"...well that doesn't exactly tell us much...lol... [This message was edited Mon Mar 4 13:02:57 PST 2002 by wellbeyond] | |
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Antony7 said: The fact that he re-named both BLACK and WHITE audience members makes all the difference you moron. RE-READ you're own 'argument' ... oh, sorry you haven't got one.
What a no-brainer. Hoo are you talking to, Anthony7??...lol... | |
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