prrtybby said:

Sorry my computer seems to be acting all on its own today. It does that when it feels people are being altogether too mean.

I guess it comes down to if u wanna "support" or spend the $25 dollars on something like an oppurtunity to purchase his music.

either way, I'm still payin the $25, I dont feel its setting me back to be honest.

If no'one is happy with spending 25 dollars... (I dont blame u if u look at past years).. Bootlegs are provided just about every month, check with a bootleger..


no big deal, I guess if u really want it u'll find it

Red said:

betcha that's exactly what it will be. I'll be surprised if non-members can purchase it.

His loss, really. I'll own it eventually, in one form or another...

You know, I used to think I was a hardcore Prince fan until I read some of the apologist - and at times, downright DEFENSIVE - behaviour and comments from a lot of you. It seems that a large percentage of his fans view any expression of furstration, criticism, or even suggestion, as some sort of personal attack.

All I, and many others, want to do is purchase the man's fucking music. I'll do it sight-unseen (or unheard, such as it is). Why this fairly simple process needs to be as complicated as it can sometimes be, I'll never understand. Especialy given Prince's ever-shrinking fan base.

One would think that he'd be quite pleased to offer his art in exchange for my money and admiration. Why some of you find this (frequently) tortourous exchange so damned amusing remains a mystery to me.

Prince is very lucky to have all of you. I still love his music and will get my hands on as much of it as I can, but even the hardest of the hardcore would have a tough time defending the idea that sometimes this process is more of a pain in the ass than it should be. Some of us devote time and energy (and money) to many things that don't center around Prince.

My 2 cents on the whole issue:

I was perfectly pleased with the way that NPGMC opperated for the first two years. Sure, the downloads were a bit cumbersome the first year before I had a broadband connection, but the music was great. The second year seemed like a nice way to strike a balance - you still needed a computer to access the site but the majority of music was delivered in physical form. It meant less music, but more people got to play.

Combined with the VIP treatment you got when Prince came to town, $100 a month was well worth it. I can hear the objections now - "But Prince didn't come to my town!" Maybe not, but he did tour the US, Canada, Europe & Japan. If he didn't come someplace near your town, you probably live a little bit out of the way.

And I'm not even going to touch on the Celebrations. I haven't been to any of them, but from most of the reports that I've read, people had some amazing experiences that (to me, at least) would have justified membership by themselves.

So now we have the third incarnation of the club. And some of the comments that I've read really hammer home the point that no matter what you do, someone's gonna cry about it. I was shocked to see that some people actually reported NPGMC to the Better Business Bureau - for not delivering CDs mentioned in a damn tour book! And unfortunately I think those complaints forced the club to change into it's newest incarnation. Goodbye $100 and you're set for the year, hello $25 and you pay a la carte. You're promised less for your $25 and you'll get less because of the economics of the deal.

I suppose that's OK - I really liked paying once a year and getting the VIP treatment, but that's that. But some of you still aren't happy. You don't like the new site. You don't know what you're going to get for the $25. You don't want to pay extra for NEWS. You assume that NEWS won't be available to non-members even though you have no idea if that's the case. You don't like instrumental albums. You're upset that Prince didn't hold a Celebration this year. Where are the MP3s? Etc., etc.

I strongly encourage debate amongst fans, just as strongly as I advocate the position that Prince "owes" us NOTHING. Regardless of how much money you've "given" him over the years, regardless of how long you've been a fan, regardless of how many times you've seen him live, regardless of the crazy things that you've done over your years as a fan, he owes us zip.

When Prince releases a new CD, goes on tour, re-starts the NPGMC, you have a choice. You can buy in or sit it out. You're not required to do either - you can make up your mind and decide if you feel that the $ he's asking for is worth what you get. And if the answer for you is "no", then buy all means, put your money back in your pocket and walk away, nothing gained, nothing lost.

I'm not suggesting that you should keep your mouth shut and never comment if you don't like things. But some of you are far, far beyond the point of rational discussion. I read your comments and I ask myself why someone with such a chip on their shoulder would even bother coming here. If Prince is pissing you off so badly, move on. His music occupies a special place in my heart too, but I have other important things in my life too. Surely you have better things to do than spend time complaining about a site that you don't subscribe to, about music that you've never heard and a method of content delivery that you know nothing about.

And don't forget that you "vote" with your dollars. $2/month too much for you to spend on the NPGMC? Don't subscribe. Don't like instrumental albums? Don't buy NEWS. Think that it will cost too much to have NEWS shipped to you? Don't buy it. And on & on & on. You will make your point in a most noticable way. And if this years membership in the NPGMC is the lowest ever, or if NEWS becomes the wost-selling Prince album ever, then you'll have made your point. Prince will be free to choose how this influences his next project. And you'll be free to decide whether or not to support it.

¡pfunk77 I am with you on this one and I couldn't agree with you more!

¡May everybody be able to see the world as it is and not the way they want it to be!

herb4 said:

Who the fuck would want to buy an ep by Prince with only 4 instrumental tunes on it in stores? Only a bunch of "hardcore" fools who will also pay 25$ FIRST in order to acces this "oppurtunity". So many fans just don't want to see that they are being screwed AGAIN. But who can blame them? It is never fun to acknowledge you are being screwed over and over.

pfunk77 said:

I was perfectly pleased with the way that NPGMC opperated for the first two years. Sure, the downloads were a bit cumbersome the first year before I had a broadband connection, but the music was great.

Yeah... YOU were "perfectly" satisfied, but the promised "new" music was mainly lame rehashed Kirky J remixes of old crap.

The second year seemed like a nice way to strike a balance - you still needed a computer to access the site but the majority of music was delivered in physical form. It meant less music, but more people got to play.

Not a whole lot of people who never got their cd's before the year was already over. And NOT the many people who thought they were getting 4 albums: namely Xenophobia, ONA. Last december and the Best of
Try again.

Combined with the VIP treatment you got when Prince came to town, $100 a month was well worth it. I can hear the objections now - "But Prince didn't come to my town!" Maybe not, but he did tour the US, Canada, Europe & Japan. If he didn't come someplace near your town, you probably live a little bit out of the way.

"VIP" treatment PLEASE!! If he had kept his world tour promise from year 1 (yes he promised a tour the first year as well!) he would have been able to play more. But of course he didn't and left his fans with not a single explanation. Typical Prince disrespect.

And I'm not even going to touch on the Celebrations. I haven't been to any of them, but from most of the reports that I've read, people had some amazing experiences that (to me, at least) would have justified membership by themselves.

The same old BS Celebration argument. Only a FEW fans were able to go, because tickets are limited. Got that?

So now we have the third incarnation of the club. And some of the comments that I've read really hammer home the point that no matter what you do, someone's gonna cry about it.

And no matter what people say someone like you cries back.

I was shocked to see that some people actually reported NPGMC to the Better Business Bureau - for not delivering CDs mentioned in a damn tour book!

MISLEADING ADVERTISING -> Learn the law!

And unfortunately I think those complaints forced the club to change into it's newest incarnation. Goodbye $100 and you're set for the year, hello $25 and you pay a la carte. You're promised less for your $25 and you'll get less because of the economics of the deal.

And who is to blame? the fools who run this "club" or the even bigger fools who continue to "support" no matter how many times they are screwed... hmmm ..

I suppose that's OK - I really liked paying once a year and getting the VIP treatment, but that's that. But some of you still aren't happy. You don't like the new site. You don't know what you're going to get for the $25. You don't want to pay extra for NEWS. You assume that NEWS won't be available to non-members even though you have no idea if that's the case. You don't like instrumental albums. You're upset that Prince didn't hold a Celebration this year. Where are the MP3s? Etc., etc.

You know WHY they are bitching? because they are afraid they will get SCREWED AGAIN. Instead of apologising for their shit you should urge them to conduct their business in a respectable and profesional fashion. But you never thought of that eh?

I strongly encourage debate amongst fans, just as strongly as I advocate the position that Prince "owes" us NOTHING. Regardless of how much money you've "given" him over the years, regardless of how long you've been a fan, regardless of how many times you've seen him live, regardless of the crazy things that you've done over your years as a fan, he owes us zip.

If the man makes a promise he has to follow through. He owes people he makes promises too! Simple. Or is that too hard for you to grasp?


I'm not suggesting that you should keep your mouth shut and never comment if you don't like things. But some of you are far, far beyond the point of rational discussion. I read your comments and I ask myself why someone with such a chip on their shoulder would even bother coming here. If Prince is pissing you off so badly, move on.

Why don't you do the same and keep your SUGGESTIONS to "move on"( i.e. to shut up) to yourself and stop whining about others? The rest of your silly crapping on other fans I will leave aside, but DAMN who the fuck is crying about others here now? That's right! YOU ARE.
[This message was edited Tue Jun 17 0:50:02 PDT 2003 by huggy]

Well I'm really lookin forward to it, Simply because I love instrumental albums, espcially if they have any indication of being experimental...


I have a feelin it will

huggy:

you can please some of the people all of the time.
And you can please all of the people some ot the time.
But you cannot please all of the people all of the time.

Peace

huggy:

since 1101 we got TRC, ONA, ONA Live, Xpectations, the celebration which by the way was fantastic, a world tour!

this year we might get N.E.W.S. and a Live DVD! personally, I don't know of any artit who is that productive and even for Prince's standard that is pretty amazing.

may we be able to see the world as it is and not the way we want it to be.

fran said:

ALMOST right...

you know what the real lyrics are?

fran said:

ahh... as it is... as the world is right now I didn't say ANYTHING about Prince not being "productive"...

I did say that he still fools the people who support him, after all the crap he has pulled before.
That's how the lyrics go...:
"You can fool some people sometimes, but you can't fool all the people all the time. So now you see the light. You gotta stand up for your RIGHT."

As it stands right now, mr.Prince did a lot of things that were NOT right. His fans last year had the right to receive what they joined for, based on a clear and unambiguous advertisement stating that membership (of 100 frigging dollars) would bring at the very least "Xenophobia, Last december, ONA and the very best of "

But of course, Prince didn't care and decided not do that, but instead release "Xpectations" on mp3 with a baby crying, AFTER the year had ended (which was never a full year as it ewas supposed to be, but hey! you never get from prince what he promises you.)

you gotta stand up for your right and stop letting people like prince screw you.

calldapplwondery83 said:

And why not? There is a genuine demand for these things, plus that way at least you have a CHOICE. If I go to the Brussels concert and I want to hear that again, but Prince tells me I can only buy the Rotterdam concert, I'm getting pissed off. Either do it all and reap the rewards, or don't do it but stop complaining about bootleggers etc. PJ manage to offer unmastered MP3s of a concert less than 24 hours after the performance (if you have pre-ordered the CD) and will send you the concert CD about a week later.

THAT is service. THAT is looking at what your fans want and building a relationship. And THAT is how you sustain a fanbase that will allow you to take artistic risks.

pfunk77 said:

Come on! NPGMC version one (Java-QuickTime, remember that one?) was pathetic. Version two of year one was a bit better, but ridiculously overpriced, often unworkable and plenty of times they didn't even meet the basic promises they made.

Year two was a complete rip-off, an EP pretending to be an album plus a live album available in stores for $50 (and it wasn't shipped to subscribers until they hade store-distribution).

pfunk77 said:

For which you had to spend another $100 or more per ticket! And remember that this was a limited offer, and didn't always apply. By the end of the European tour fans suddenly had to cough up $100 for the regular show and then $100 for the aftershow.

pfunk77 said:

Nonsense.

pfunk77 said:

As if people who are nuts enough to pay $250 (transportation and stay not included) are gonna say it was shit.

pfunk77 said:

Look who's talking!

pfunk77 said:

BS. It's $25 because Prince is greedy. Just look at the prices of the CDs he's put out the past years: all I see is that Prince has cut out the middle-man and yet CD prices have not gone down, but actually UP.

pfunk77 said:

BS. You can't even decide whether it's worth it, because to decide that you need to be a member!

pfunk77 said:

I knwo plenty about what's possible. I've proven that by pointing to other artist sites that deliver what Prince promised in 1994-95.

pfunk77 said:

BS. Prince will charge even more because he estimates his revenue will be down. That's why concerts are $150 nowadays: smaller audiences but same standard of living = higher ticket price. That you defend this crap is ridiculous.

good to see so many of you are having a big discussion on this!

time to put my foot in again...

Firstly Prince needs to make money as an artist for his music. we the fans pay the price in recognition of his music. it is our perogatory to either like and enjoy it or not to like it at all.

Prince has moved away from the main estiblishments of distribution hence he now has creative freedom over his music and better control. we as his fans are happy with that (although im sure some do not like everything that has come out of the paisley! - understandable) - hence freedom has a certain cost.

But if you truely enjoy his freedom then the music that comes out is freedom. (what am i talking about...)

Prince im sure has made a mint from World tour. good for him. should he charge fans for his website seeing that he is rich enough and also we the fans keep him floating? yes we should pay for his website. as fans who recognise his music then we should support that. he has moved away from the mainstream (although slowly disappearing...) music avenues and hence all the costs and profits are his own.

will NEWS be on general release? maybe, only he knows. most probably released only for fans who have joined the website (what about fans who dont want to join the website?) and then later on released sometime in the future through general release...who knows.

yes the website could be improved greatly, for example, exclusive info and news on time and more downloadable music such as in promptu gigs...also better info and better links with music related to the NPG on the site instead of all the cryptic licks.

yeah better things could happen. what can we do? nothing i guess. send an email to NPGMC? start a petition? i dig his music, and his live performances. im just taking each day as it comes. im paying the fee because i dont mind supporting his corner.

some fams just want his music but with certain conditions.

at the end of the day, give the man his dues. if you dont want to listen to what he has to say, then dont.

you decide.

BartVanHemelen said:

ditto.

BartVanHemelen said:

Ditto on all points. Well said.

purplefrank said:

Sure the latter is true alright, but the former not. Prince doesn't NEED to make money anymore; he is stinking rich. But fair is fair; he should be paid for what he does like anybody else. However, how much is the real question... Does Prince DESERVE even more? No, Prince has cut out all the middleman so logic holds that the average price for the fan goes down, but not with Prince. Why not? Because he pulled so much shit that he has lost an incredible amount of fans. Basically he hasn't got enough fans left to support his superstarlifestyle. So cut out all the middleman, overcharge the remaining fans for music and concerts and make as much as you used to. What did you say? He is a "Christian" now? He don't lie, don't cheat? Hahahah! He is just like the preacher he dogs on Family Name... talking truth this, truth that, God this, God that and at the same time banking on it... shamelessly...


1st of all, that he wasn't creatively free with Warner is nonsense. Warner let him take huge financial risks with many "creative" projects (just naming Grafiti Bridge here). It was only because of his 100milliondollar deal (Prince so badly wanted himself) that they started to demand more commercialised product. They wanted to gain back their huge investment. Not strange when you pay the man 100million that you expect sales in return, hence less creative freedom.

Lastly, Prince did not move away from the establishment easily, nor rapidly. He signed deals with 3 majors after Warner and again got rich on it, while delivering crap like NPS and Rave. After the huge failures of these albums the majors didn't want him anymore. Hence, Prince is now "indy"... however he still wants that money! And now more than ever! Indeed "freedom" has its cost... it cost the fan alright.




No, a website is not the same as music. Does Ben make you pay a fee for this website? No. Do other artists? No. but Prince does. Why? because he loves that money!


And as it goes with greedy people: they never have enough!


Right..., as business goes at npgmc: nobody ever knows!



"exclusive info"? Please! You mean I gotta pay for the crap "news" they think is important or interesting? No fucking way... never! Better news, on time and real information on music, for free, yes, but fuck the racist revisionist "poetry" he poisons the minds of all the fanatics with.


Who knows one day you wake up and you think: fuck that dude and his crap business, I am not spending my money on another ripp-off ever again. I can tell you: many have come before you.

The future will probably hold that prince loses himself in his midlife crisis and stops everything, OR he turns into this cultleader with all the dummy's who believe he knows and tells "the truth". Those MF's need to get a fucking life and wake up from the bullshit if they want Prince to still make music within another 5 years.
[This message was edited Wed Jun 18 5:41:16 PDT 2003 by huggy]

Come on! NPGMC version one (Java-QuickTime, remember that one?) was pathetic. Version two of year one was a bit better, but ridiculously overpriced, often unworkable and plenty of times they didn't even meet the basic promises they made.

The very first version of the club software sucked. I don't remember any problems with year two.

Year two was a complete rip-off, an EP pretending to be an album plus a live album available in stores for $50 (and it wasn't shipped to subscribers until they hade store-distribution).

Including Xpectation, that made for 5 discs worth of material.

pfunk77 said:

For which you had to spend another $100 or more per ticket! And remember that this was a limited offer, and didn't always apply. By the end of the European tour fans suddenly had to cough up $100 for the regular show and then $100 for the aftershow.

For $100 a year you want tons of free music AND free concert tickets?

pfunk77 said:

Nonsense.

No, it's not. I maintain that touring America, Canada, Europe and Japan is a fairly large-scale tour.

pfunk77 said:

As if people who are nuts enough to pay $250 (transportation and stay not included) are gonna say it was shit.

As if it's impossible that someone could have gone and had a genuinely great time?

pfunk77 said:

BS. It's $25 because Prince is greedy. Just look at the prices of the CDs he's put out the past years: all I see is that Prince has cut out the middle-man and yet CD prices have not gone down, but actually UP.

The $25 I refer to is for access to the site which breaks down to $2/month. That seems plenty fair to me.

pfunk77 said:

BS. You can't even decide whether it's worth it, because to decide that you need to be a member!

There are millions of CDs out there that you can't hear before you buy. If you've followed Prince for a while, you probably have some idea of whether or not you would like N.E.W.S. Otherwise, wait for some reviews to roll in.

pfunk77 said:

BS. Prince will charge even more because he estimates his revenue will be down. That's why concerts are $150 nowadays: smaller audiences but same standard of living = higher ticket price. That you defend this crap is ridiculous.[/quote]

If you don't like it, don't pay for it. I do not make a lot of money, so $150 for a pair of tickets is a lot of money for me. But Prince is one of maybe two or three artists who I will pay that much to view.

My final question to you - why is it so hard to accept that there are many people who have nothing but great experiences with NPGMC and -gasp- actually LIKE it?

hey huggy, calm down. i do agree with a lot of the things that you said. so fair enough, can't really argue with that. this i guess will be an interesting year...

huggy said:

A question then - why bother being a fan???

ThomasBjj said:

pfunk77 said:

Xpectation is a bunch of MP3s on your PC. WORTHLESS.

pfunk77 said:

No, I want value for money. The $100 did not cover the CDs we got, nor is $100/$150 a reasonable ticket price. $50 TOPS.

Plenty other artists also offer their fans first dibs at tickets, and yet don't feel the need to charge $100 for that. Didn't Bon Jovi include that privilige with their latest CD?

pfunk77 said:

A handful of concerts in Europe, a scattered tour in the US.

pfunk77 said:

To watch a couple of crappy Flash animations and download lo-quality previews of a DVD? You're nuts. Compare to BobDylan.com -- which is FREE.

pfunk77 said:

How about thinking about fans BESIDES yourself? About people who've supported Prince for years and now are left out because they're not rich enough? Or what about the simple fact that Prince becoming independent seems to have been only about him earning more moeny, not about fans getting a better deal? Not very Christian of him.

pfunk77 said:

Why is it so hard for people like you to admit that things are NOT great and could be better (as shown by other artists, some of them tied to major labels) but that it won't change as long as apologists like you keep pretending everything is okay?

pfunk77 said:

You said this in repsonse to the discussion on the ridiculous prives and the misleading advertising from last year. Don't you know that last year clearly stated wehat memebers wouyld get and that prince clearly not kept that promise? What is so hard to undertsand about that. it has nothing do with "If you don't like it, don't pay for it."

People liked the offer of at least 4 new albums, but got screwed, because Prince didn't keep his promises. You are just trying to come up with some smart answer, but it really isn't.


yeah,...and you see... that makes you a fanatic who puts Pirnce on a higher standard than others. But you know, he ain't better than others and doesn't deserve to be paid more either.



I like to answer that:

Because there are NOT many. The ones who SAY they are, are like you and believe that no matter what prince does, it is always right, always cool, he is always the greatest... he deserves all your hard earned money, blablabla...

he Frank, ben je de Frank uit de Bosveldstraat?
groeten Marcel..

just a thought, maybe if prince gave his albums a commercial release, we wouldn't have to pay $25, but the money would be made through record sales? i, for one, want to get hold of a copy of N.E.W.S, but am holding out to see if it will be released in any other way. i'd even buy it from the website if i could...