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Reply #60 posted 05/20/03 10:29pm

2the9s

McD said:

SassyPants said:

Beyond the typos, McD may want to check out the definition of "duplicity" vs. "duplication" and "punctual" vs. "punctuation" before calling a brother out on his writing abilities.

Hmm... I'm afraid I'm going to have to send you running back to your dictionary. 'Duplicity' and 'Duplication' mean the same thing, even if you do have license to use the former for other means. That said, I have a feeling that you believe 'Multiplicity' has nothing to do with 'multiplying', and the fact that the film of the same name goes from having one Michael Keaton to four of him is nothing but a bizarre co-incidence!

As for 'punctual', it should be obvious where this is derived from (or vice versa), and the meaning fully understood from the context. English works like that. Aside from anything else, the strictness of the language you are trying to impose on me renders your own slang statement of 'calling a brother out' as completely nonsensical!

I should point out that the word used by Hahn is 'duplicative', not that it makes any difference. His 'comprehensive' index, through which he boasted so much, is nothing to write home about. He seems perplexed about what constitutes a sideline project, justifying the inclusion of the Eric Leeds 'Times Squared' album given Prince’s song writing involvement. I don’t know why he even thought twice about its inclusion – Leeds’s instrumental talents act as vocals, so it’s not so different from, say, Jill Jones.

Personally, I thought the division should have been more obvious to anyone. Martika’s Kitchen is clearly in the wrong section – sure, it gets more than the usual couple o’ tracks, but it’s still an album that Prince contributed work to, but had no control over. Hahn should have kept to a simple rule – if it’s heavy on Prince and either Warner, Paisley or NPG, then it’s a sideline project.

I suppose Martika should be grateful she even made the appendix at all! She appears nowhere else in the book! And she would have provided plenty of talking points for Hahn. For a start, there were four songs which, in my humble opinion, comprised of two classics and two fillers. It should also be noted that the Martika co-writing credits are more than a little dubious. She probably contributed nothing (unlike the contemporary tracks by Monie Love where she clearly deserved her credit). This would have been a counterpoint to another of Hahn’s grudges – Prince’s lack of giving out song writing credits. Hahn doesn’t seem to notice that on the albums where this seems to be prevalent, credit is shared right from the off as ‘Produced, Arranged, Composed and Performed by Prince and The Revolution / New Power Generation’. Thus Prince feels he has given some kind of blanket credit, and only seems to distinguish on a few individual tracks. Affable Alex doesn’t seem to spot this, however. Ah well.

And I’m sure, if he’d done his homework, that he’d know George Clinton shouldn’t have been credited on We Can Funk. But hey… the man is often generous, which is ignored in Hahn’s book completely. The Eric Leeds album is less clear, but I’ve no doubt that the Spandau Ballet lawyer, who found for the song writer and against Tony Hadley and co, may have disputed Leeds claim to co-authorship of even these numbers! I could be wrong (and let’s face it, I wasn’t there when the tracks were composed) but given that Leeds doesn’t stray too far from the melody (which Prince almost certainly composed), then he adds no more compositional involvement than an interpretive vocalist on an old Beatles standard. But, as I said, I could be wrong.

Back to Martika. Clearly a case of Prince giving co-authorship to women (see also Easton, Sheena) who may not have even been in the country when the song was written and recorded. Perhaps Hahn’s psychological & sexual study of Prince could have benefited from a close look at Love… Thy Will Be Done. Was Martika involved in the lyric? Check this out…

‘I see all of your creations as one perfect complex
No one less beautiful or more special than the next’


Clearly, this is a love song, and the recipient of this deep love can be none other than Prince, whose unmatched body of work is being referred to. Let’s face it, even if you’re a huge Sting fan, the phrase just doesn’t quite work, does it?

So, did Martika write it, and is this another celeb affair we can add to the ‘sex’ section of Hahn’s book? Or did Prince write this love letter to himself, which surely Hahn could have tried to analyse in some psycho-sexual fashion. Oh, and whilst he was at it, he could admit that Prince is often a tad generous when giving out song writing credit. As much as (if not more than) instances where he doesn’t!

And as for that ‘comprehensive’ index – I don’t want to get picky again and point out that he missed listing the company credits on Times Squared. Especially when I can point out that, despite indexing an obscure song given to Kenny Rodgers, Hahn has (in another Homer Simpson moment) suddenly forgot all about the recent Larry Graham / Chaka Khan albums! Par for the course on this book really!
[This message was edited Tue May 20 11:35:49 PDT 2003 by McD]


Well, I don't know if Fowler would be satisfied with your use of "punctual," wink but damn you did it again!

lol
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Reply #61 posted 05/26/03 1:44pm

lunacoco

It always makes me laugh to read others' opinions of this album, or that.
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2Freaky says: "The Rainbow Chitlin"
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-you guys are funny as hell.
Hahn's is a very good book. Not real sensationalist stuff, but that title seems kinda tabloid-ish. Y'know.."POSSESSED"?! (Maybe in ref to this new religiosity P's involved with)That bothers me more than "Rise and Fall." He gives you a lot of the info "obtainable" to begin to make up your own mind about P the person. Which we here speculate about so much. We all have our personal favourite songs or albums and our own reasons for liking them, no matter what "professional critics" say or how many u n i t s they sold or eventually sell.
It's a bit of a bummer to hear factual tidbits about his control issues tho. His womanizing. Especially when we ladies relish those passionate lovesongs-like, wow, a guy actually CAN say stuff as romantic as that!what kind of a guy must P be, REALLY?jeez-you can hear a lot of chauvinism right there in his songs. Ok, so put a check mark in the box: doesn't play nice with others. Add another check in: hurt a lot of girlfriends/close friends/bandmates. ICKY!
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Supernova said:"For SOME reason Prince is held to a standard that not many artists are held to."
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Some of this is Prince's own doing. IMHO. But it's the corporate music machine's fault too. I think he wanted to be a big star, and he is. He still shines. Thank God he actually HAS talent under the hoopla. I feared I'd be drawing toward my old age with nothing more than manufactured frauds like Madonna, or heaven forbid, Brittany Spears puking at me. All a shadow artist like that HAS to do is put "U" in a song title and a half-serious ear might be tempted to actually listen to it. (More $$ off a Prince reference) I like my favorite singers to be actually ABLE to sing.
By the way, I love some songs from The Rainbow Chitlin.::laughs::I also think ATWIAD has some good songs. Parade..Rave..even the flops made some $, right?
One thing I notice is that I am one of the people who buy everything Prince puts out, then I extract what I love. Hahn mentions my "kind" here & there.
When I first noticed P, I loathed his seemingly attention-craving antics. But I couldn't help but smile every time Raspberry Beret popped on a radio somewhere. Or found my jaw dropping when Pink Cashmere drifted in my ear from somewhere. I get the feeling Hahn is that kind of fan too. I get no impression he's a P-hater from the book.
Favorite songs are repeated on my compilation discs. Prince put his art out, and I hold dear what I want.
I like pop w/o apology. And I happen to LIKE the pastiche or hodgepodge effect of other music(al influence) infused into Prince's or anyone's stuff. I think this is what makes American music great. I read the book because I'm a little possessive of my favorite American artists AND curious about P. And I really don't care if there's something bigger or grander in P's musical future than "Purple Rain", which is my least favorite, by the way. I guess I'm one of those snobbish/cultist types.."Starfish & Coffee" types.
The points Hahn makes are backed up experiences by those close to P.
P has burped out a lot of music hastily done.
P always needed more sleep than he got.
P is as insecure as many of us are.
P & Larry Graham sure have some creepy belief systems going.
Charlene Friend is never mentioned which is interesting, given this lawsuit thing. And given Hahn interviewed Anna Garcia, but no C. Friend.
Alan Leeds seems like a really good guy, and I think, truly loves P.
I notice Hahn uses the word "chirpy" to describe some singers. Chirpy? Ok chirpy.
I didn't notice the missplelt words others said they did.
Surprises? Yeah-that P might ingest some narcotics.
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Reply #62 posted 05/30/03 11:30am

JumpUpOnThe1

avatar

Aerogram said:

Let me be clear that I am not one of those who simply oppose Hahn's book because they think it's all a big lie and that Prince is above reproach and should not be "disrespected". Like it or not, Prince has been in the public's eye for more than a quarter of a century, and like many of us he has made bad decisions and a couple of enemies along the way.

But unlike us, he cannot hide behind a facade of anonymity. That's the price you pay when you have been in the limelight... someone's going to put you on trial, and pretty much everything will get aired, from the undeniable to the oh-hum "story confirmed by at least two sources." Have you ever stopped to think what it would be like if a stranger would write a book on you that includes stories told by at least two of your former friends?

That's not what I'm looking for. I want a book written by a real american music expert who focuses on what we know Prince for - his music. I've read many such books about other musicians, and they were full of stories too. But they did not have this "gotcha" feeling you get when you read Possessed. And I'm not interested in gotchas when it comes to a talent of Prince's size... especially when the unauthorized biographer compares him to Duke Ellington yet buries his career with a shoddy title that spells out its lack of scope.


I agree with most of what you say Aero. Actually i've said some of it elsewhere smile Hahn seemed to have had his thesis all mapped out and used his interviews to support it...which is fine. I did get the sense of "gotcha" a number of times, but overall I didn't get a negative vibe for some reason. Maybe its because I think 99% of the world looks at Prince this way, so I'm used to it biggrin What's wrong with the title? Again, his stature has really fallen.

I focused on the positive parts and in my opinion he didn't say much that was really damaging. So Prince works hard, has an interesting and sometimes perplexing personality, and his music has changed over the years. Uhh.. yeah, we know.

I just wanted to see mainly what the women had to say about him (i admit it!), since one of my favorite aspects of his music is the way he adopts the feminine pose and flips what would be a typical song into a unique, almost revolutionary one.
********************************************
...Ur standing in the epicenter, Let the shaking begin...
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