herb4 said:

It's not about who is a "Legend" or not, it's about who was seen to take a "Fall" and lose it while others are still welcome to keep coming back with new hyped albums (Elton, Rod, Bruce Springstein etc). The artists you list above are terrible examples of this as their "juice" is all but gone and only perhaps Janet and Michael Jackson (Said to of taken a fall by many) can command any real interest in a new release now.

People, people...you might as well stop all this bickering because can't everyone here plainly see that Bart is the be all and end all when it comes to Prince knowledge?

I mean, come on now. He's calling what everyone else posts bullshit, so he must know what he's talking about right? No one else could ever be so "in the know" about these things.

You rock on Bart, because you have clearly shown us all that your knowledge on these important issues is superior to anyone elses. With everything that you claim to know, why don't YOU write the next book about Prince's life, seeing as how you seem to know more about his life than Prince himself.




Christ, someone needs to go and get a damn life...

Guys, guys... what's with all the hate?! Can we just go ahead and establish that many of you have outstanding knowledge of the music industry and its intricacies, that many of us can learn from you, but that everybody is better off if we do it without name calling and words intended to belittle and dismay? (ok, ok, so i plagiarized a little...)

Let's rise above the petty stuff and enjoy the love we all have for the man and his music.



irresistibleb1tch

rdhull said:

step 1 step 2 step 3 step 4 step 5 step 6 take a nap laugh about how u told me to "brang it muthafucka" then start with step 7, as ure ass is playing "7" by prince.

and we'll watch them fall...







RDHULL after Im finished with him --->

[This message was edited Mon May 12 23:57:53 PDT 2003 by Sdldawn]
[/quote]

brang it muthafucka!!![/quote]

step 1 step 2 step 3 step 4 step 5 step 6 take a nap laugh about how u told me to "brang it muthafucka" then start with step 7, as ure ass is playing "7" by prince.

and we'll watch them fall...




RDHULL after Im finished with him ---> [/quote]



ok, i take back what i just said about us all just getting along and all... u guys in this thread are some funny motherfuckers! thanks for making my day!

i.b.

Now this is more like it! Let me just pull up my chair now and settle in...

Sdldawn said:

Mutherfucker are you retarded? I dont need no symbols..just bring it.

and I laugh at how you get all upset like a little bitch when you get challenged so dont even try
[This message was edited Tue May 13 11:22:09 PDT 2003 by rdhull]

U know, the only reason why I even bother with this petty discussion is that Mr. Chuck D. is correct in his statement. "The Rise and Fall of Prince" is very subjective in the minds of music fams. Many artists and fams have respect 4 his talent so much 2 call him genius, but then they turn around and call him irrevelant because of his business choices. We seem 2 be always reminded that it's a music BUSINESS and that the art is just as important as the business. U may not agree with this (especially Bart), but Prince "fell" and sacrificed his music in the 90's so he could be "free" now. Free 2 do whatever he wants. The BUSINESS enslaves artists, and an artist like Prince cannot be told when 2 record, when 2 tour, when 2 release music, etc. We all know he made bad decisions with recording CONtracts, and he even bit the hands who fed him, but at the same time U can't force a person with that much talent 2 be like all others or else he'll fight 2 break free, which he did. Prince has said that the music BUSINESS is like the Matrix, and me being in the BUSINESS as a radio DJ knows just what type of BUSINESS it is. Creativety is embraced 4 a while, but it all comes down 2 what money U can bring 2 the table.

Artists have 2 make a living, and wouldn't U be mad if someone was scraping up off of your plate and eating your meal when U KNOW they didn't cook it??? Maybe U'll give them a bite if they ask nicely... the point being that record companies don't know how 2 work with these "legendary artists" who have incredible amounts of talent. They only want the money and they want it NOW, so they make the artists work in THEIR system. Why does it cost $15.99 on the average 2 buy a CD? The artist who creates the art only sees maybe a dollar of that AFTER they recoup their advance back 2 the record company, which leaves them broke (can U spell T-L-C?). That's why these artists have 2 tour 2 get money that they can live on, or they go in2 other ventures like endorsements (i.e. Pepsi, etc.). U KNOW when "Purple Rain" was a hit that those business suits pushed edorsements on him. Not only is that a joke, but it's funny they would even consider it anyway given the type of artist he is.

If U really want 2 look at it, true fams who have followed his music since the beginning of his career will say that there were people that hated "Purple Rain" because it wasn't as funky as "1999", or they would say that Prince fell off with "Around the World In a Day" because it sounded nothing like "Purple Rain". Or they would say "Parade" was even worse, even though they liked "Kiss". People always had something 2 say, even in the 80's. Now they look at that era as his crowning achievement, then they go and tear him apart about his '90's stuff. I'm tired of folks doin that crap. If U R a fam, be a fam. Quit bitchin about what he doesn't do and start looking at the positive things. "Have U had your plus sign 2day?" Like those true legends B4 him, he will always be ahead of his time.

GEMINEYE

rdhull said:"
Mutherfucker are you retarded? I dont need no symbols..just bring it."

_____
Ure a lost cause with a shitty screen name.

_____
and I laugh at how you get all upset like a little bitch when you get challenged so dont even try
[This message was edited Tue May 13 11:22:09 PDT 2003 by rdhull]
[/quote]
_____
Challenged by whom? Give me a fucking break, I stated my opinion on that jackass and here comes a million "Dont hate on chuck D, he's a leader bullshit", It didnt matter If i called him a racist or not, it just mattered if I said he couldnt rap, which is my opinion on it. What more could possibly be said about this topic.

"Get off the crack pipe" is the kindof response that was said when someone says chuck D cant rap, sound familier?

I'd hate to hear what would get said if I thought Prince couldnt sing..
[This message was edited Tue May 13 14:00:33 PDT 2003 by Sdldawn]

gemineye69 said:

It's pretty unanimous that his business decisions have sucked over the years. But some of us also think his music has started to suck as well.

His rebellious antics were excuseable and even amusing, back when he was recording phenomenal albums to justify it. People criticize his 90s output because they genuinely feel that, overall, it sucks. You can't gauge if someone's right or wrong for their opinion of his music.

If people want to refer to prince falling out of the limelight, what is there to argue? He has, its a fact. If you want to discuss his musical ability and its growth thats a completely seperate issue.

My first impression of the title of the book was that it was referring to him no longer being a commercial superstar. And thats entirely true.

Sdldawn said:

___


You said something monmumentally stupid and you know it.You got called on it and in your embarassment you called someone stupid etc. Then when I made a comment you got incensed (because its me..you've been upset before) and proceeded to follow me around in two threads making negative comments to and about me so to speak as well as trying to jump bad Now al of a sudden I have a shitty screen name etc. lol.So these things are whats heard from YOU when I say put the crack pipe down in response to your sensitive ass and the idiocy remark you made/make. "Chuck couldn't rap"- so typical of...now behave and I "MIGHT" forgive you for your rash judments and rash behavior.

and lets not forget..in the span of 48 hours you've become a Bart dick-rider. Im tellin' your mom.

and lets not forget you almost immediately created two theads damn near professing your love for rnb music following your fallout of your dumbass comment...now why would that be? Because u felt you had to prove something? Why would you ned to do that..because you know you came off as idiotic and ____


helps Steve-o-rino how to take those child proof caps off of medicine bottles
[This message was edited Tue May 13 15:23:05 PDT 2003 by rdhull]

BartVanHemelen said:

---
Then why is Prince the devil for putting out RAVE if you blame everything on Clive.

What is your point you hate RAVE but you think Prince should go back to a major label. Do you think Prince should go back to Warner Brothers? Because that is not going to happen at this point he is at a point were he would lose all credibility by returning to that company.

Before you say he has lost all crediability in the industry. Other artist have spoken out about the same things Prince has and now the industry cannot give CD's away.

Essence said:

---
This is exactly what I was trying to say. You really must question the legend tag and wonder why some people are still receiving recording contracts when their time is clearly up.

at rdhull following your posts? mad at u before? what the heck is going on..

Honestly, I was just playing with u, Obviously, this whole chuck D ordeal has gotten your panties in a bunch. I had no idea this got serious...

geez, I see people playin games on eachother on here all the time, When i do it, "I get mad" haha

and Bart dick rider? what the heck are u talking about? I say one comment about the "opinion" section on his website, and Im considered a dick rider


Now its kindof getting fun, Im a "sensitive ass" hahaha, Let me say this, If u even thought I was sensitive, I wouldnt have waved a big flag that said "Chuck D Cant Rap"... trust me, I know very well what I get into, and I can pretty much predict who will respond to my posts..

So I'm sorry rdhull, I really had no idea you were serious.. I thought the "behave" comment was just another way to start getting people "hot" in this joint.

Orgs emotions to Chuck D Response

And honestly, Whoever says stuff like "two theads damn near professing your love for rnb music following your fallout of your dumbass comment"

so I guess I should explain the maxwell post (I cant believe this)

I lost my embryo cd, following my urban hange suite cd being all scratched up, so saturday afternoon, I ran out and found Embrya for an amazing 9.99 at best buy! which is a good deal, since that album isnt too too old. I got back into one of my favorite cd's by him and decided to make a post.. wow, sorry, I didnt realize I hated rnb since the post about chuck d, I had no idea Chuck D WAS rnb

Guess ure gonna say I am posing as a "prince fan" next..
wowowowowowowow

BartVanHemelen said:

---
Is it possible for you to respond without calling people dumb or liars. Most of us have lives and do not know every move Prince makes.


Bart said
"The exact timeline has been documented in an Uptown article and in Possessed. Come up with concrete dates to events that contradict that, if you have them. FACT is that you don't. Prince was fighting with Clive in NOVEMBER 1999 and publicly dissing him on his site in early 2000. Now WHEN was Clive sacked?"

I am not going to go by anything in Possessed as many people on this site have said it is filled with errors.
I remember reading in the American Press that Clive was fired after he returned from Europe where he was with Prince promoting RAVE. I do not know the exact date but, I can certainly believe that the 12 million dollar advance would have been one reason he was fired. However, in the press it was also stated that the higher ups at BMG really wanted someone younger. They actually sent L.A. Reid to Harvard for a year before to take business classes. They were preparing to get rid of Clive before Prince came along.

Bart said "Yet both Metallica and REM negociated deals that were far more lucrative than Prince's and at the same time gave them more control"

What has happened to Metallica and REM since they renegociated their contracts. Not much!!! Rem could not give away their last CD. There are serious problems at Warner Brothers there were serious problems from the begining of the merger. If you do not believe me look in yesterday's business pages. WB is going to merge their music divison with VENDI.

The music industry is in bad shape and Prince was going to have a hard time no matter where he went. He is a 45 year old black man. There is not much of a market for his kind of music amoung the teen/rap set. The industry is obssessed with youth.

BartVanHemelen said:

---
Well if WB did not get anything from Prince in writing saying he would not diss the company that was their stupidity. This is American and people have the right to speak their opinions without the O.K of the corporate gods.

I do not blame Prince for keeping material away from WB if they were not going to spend any money promoting his RnB music. You could hardly find The Symbol cd, The Gold Experience, or Come. I have always believed that as soon as he started going back to funk and Rnb Warner Brothers wrote him off.
[This message was edited Tue May 13 15:44:10 PDT 2003 by laurarichardson]

Essence said:

Very well Put Essence. I always will dig Chuck D&The Public Enemy Crew&Mister Chuck is Right on with His Feelings about what goes down&the double Standards.it's not Personal Per Se but the Business&Politics cut it down the Middle as Black&White&Knowing the History of the World you are forced to select a side you are gonna be on when something of this magnitude hits home.because no matter what some folks say or thank:the more things change the more they stay the same.History has a Funny way of Repeating itself.

This just in:

Rod Stewart has decided to get in touch about these comments and will collaborate with Chuck D on his next album,


wow guess I was wrong

Sdldawn said:

Sdldawn said:

now see..THATS funny. Im glad u came around

rdhull said:

I have to admit, I admire Prince now (and then) for seeking an alternative to a system that only pays the artist 15¢ on the dollar for the revenue their art generates.


That's straight up theft.

Tom said:

"It's pretty unanimous that his business decisions have sucked over the years. But some of us also think his music has started to suck as well.

His rebellious antics were excuseable and even amusing, back when he was recording phenomenal albums to justify it. People criticize his 90s output because they genuinely feel that, overall, it sucks. You can't gauge if someone's right or wrong for their opinion of his music.

If people want to refer to prince falling out of the limelight, what is there to argue? He has, its a fact. If you want to discuss his musical ability and its growth thats a completely seperate issue.

My first impression of the title of the book was that it was referring to him no longer being a commercial superstar. And thats entirely true."


1st impressions are entirely the reason Chuck D. even responded in the 1st place. This is why people get it twisted. 2 judge an artist just by his or her commercial value is just nonsense. And people DO put his ability and his commercial value in the same boat. Like I wrote b4, people even criticized his music AND antics in the 80's as well as the 90's. He wanted out of the spotlight after "Purple Rain" because he knew he would never top that EVER. He even said all he had 2 do is begin the song "Around the World in a Day" with a guitar solo like in the beginning of "When Doves Cry", but put in a different key, and it would have been a hit. The business wants repeat performances that do not allow an artist 2 grow. WB made Prince strip down his "Sign of the Times" album to 2 records because a triple album "won't sell". U can't restrain art! People were actually put off by "Around the World", "Parade", and "Sign of the Times" because they were nothing like the OLD Prince that recorded "Dirty Mind", "Controversy" and "1999". It was only after critics embraced them that the masses folllowed.

Remember in 1985 in Rolling Stone magazine when Prince was complaining about critics saying Stevie Wonder fell off? Just because an album isn't a hit doesn't mean they have "fallen". An artist needs 2 be alowed 2 experiment. Prince proved his commercial appeal. Let him do his own thing with NO limits! If U really want 2 document the so-called "fall" from Prince's purple reign, start with the recording "Around the World in a Day" and everything that followed (including all the side-projects). In my eyes, that actually was the beginning of a revolution.

GEMINEYE

laurarichardson said:

And yet you still continue to pretend you have something worthwhile to say. Don't speak until you know the facts -- until you do, don't start making up imaginary conspiracies or fabricate business plans.

laurarichardson said:

Again: you don't know shit and still you continue to vent an opinion.

laurarichardson said:

Again: RESEARCH.

laurarichardson said:

Oh for crying out loud. You can't even get the amount of the advance right, but you badmouth a book you haven't read.

laurarichardson said:

http://groups.google.com/...%404ax.com

Seems to me they're doing fine. And again: they've got control of their back catalogue.

laurarichardson said:

You managed to forget the correct name of one of the largest media conglomerates in the world less than a day after reading it. WHO the hell do you think to critisize anyone?

laurarichardson said:

Two words: Johnny Cash.

laurarichardson said:

It's called a gentlemen's agreement.

laurarichardson said:

Hilarious. went to no. 2 in the charts -- not bad for a CD you "ould hardly find". Come was shipped in such large number I bought it mere weeks after the release for less than midprice because record shops couldn't shift it at all and I saw copies in the "buy it for next to nothing" bins for years. TGE was easy to find at the time of release, but it's impossible to find now since WB can't repress it (part of a special deal).

Again

laurarichardson said:

Bwahahahahahaha. Hilarious. You "think"? If you've proven anything, it's that you don't think. A perfect example is earlier in this thread, when you said this:

laurarichardson said:

Have you looked up who that "racist ass" is? Have you? Ready to admit defeat and shut up?

"When ya'll gonna get jobs? Aint ya'll got jobs? I got a job"

Bwahahahahahaha. Hilarious. You "think"? If you've proven anything, it's that you don't think. A perfect example is earlier in this thread, when you said this:

laurarichardson said:

Have you looked up who that "racist ass" is? Have you? Ready to admit defeat and shut up?[/quote]


Bart, sweetheart, come here - let me give u a hug... ... seems like u need one!

brother, just chill - get some of that great dutch weed, get urself laid (i'm sure we'd all be happy to pitch in a buck or two) and consider some positive changes in ur life. then come back and share ur knowledge in a constructive way.

So what if Chuck made a racial comment? He has a point, you know. Sure he probably didn't spend several hours explaining all the sociopolitical arguements that he has garnered in his mind during the last twenty years and applying it to this subjecy, but the treatment of "has-been" black artists definitely is different from white artists. Altough I don't think that applies to anything else than just mainstream exposure.

irresistibleb1tch said:

Incredible: talk nonsensical shit and no one is bothered, speak the truth and everybody gets pissed.

Get your values straight! Stop looking at the packaging and start looking at the content.