laurarichardson said:[quote]

Sdldawn said:

Look at Laura!

.
[This message was edited Sun May 11 15:57:29 PDT 2003 by rdhull]

divo02 said:

---
You keep going on about commercial appeal. Rave was put out back in 1999. I do not think Prince was looking commercial appeal when he put out TRC. Let it go already. The brother would like for as many people as possible to hear his music. It is not possible for this to happen without radio airplay. You cannot get airplay without a major label. He is in a tough position.

laurarichardson said:

"If you think a Nelly, or Ja Rule can rap you do not know much about Hip Hop."
[quote]

Actually, Hip Hop is what I first started listening to... And from me listening to such great hip hop when it actually started, Nelly and Ja Rule are some of the worst rap/hip hop singers to ever hit the scene.

This is so amazing 2 me. Chuck D. is probably the most respected person 2 come out of Hip Hop AND music, period. Public Enemy will go down in history as THE most important Hip Hop group along with RunDMC, and even DMC agrees that Public Ememy will always be the best there ever was. The reason why is that Chuck D. garners conversation by speaking the truth. The state of emergency in the music industry was even predicted way back when Public Enemy was droppin albums. Prince hated rap music when it was making moves back in the mid 80's because of it's lack of medley and musicianship, but even he knew that the power and rawness of it would take over the industry. This is why he tried 2 incorporate it in his music with Tony M. with a lack of understanding of it being a culture. Hip Hop was created by blacks, just like Rock and Roll. The only exception is Hip Hop can't be "white-washed" like what Elvis, the Rolling Stones and the Beatles did. All of these groups have taken from the originals of Rock and Roll, and have even acknowledged this. Now you have Eminem, but the roles are reversed. Dre calls the shots and keeps it raw, and this is the reason why he's one of the only white rappers with longevity.

The music business sells only one type of Hip-Hop 2 the mainstream when there's other types that need 2 be equally promoted. The same with other types of music. Prince gave Clive Davis the opportunity 2 promote "Rave" as a test, 2 see if the record business can work for Prince. The test failed. That album is just as good as any out there 2day, but it was obviously not a priority for Arista. Why couldn't the have put out "So Far So Pleased" with Gwen? That is a song screaming 4 radio airplay and MTV rotation. I think it's because the industry is only in the here-and-now, and as a result 2day's music lovers are fickle.

Can't U hear those business suits talkin?

"Gwen is cool, but Prince is from the old school. We'll give him the same chance Santana had and see if it works! Oh, damn, that 1st single wasn't 2 hot. Oh, well. Let's focus on Usher!"

"Hmmm. Rod Stewart? My kids don't know who he is, but my friends do!! Hey, how about doin an album of classics! Oh, lawd... those old folks are buying... extend Rod's contract! In fact, lets do another one of those. I can smell another Grammy 4 Rod!!! Give those Adult Contemporary radio stations more copies 2 play!"

Race does come in2 play, but also age. The only superstar artist from the 80's that "tries" 2 make themselves relevant 2day is Madonna, and she's the queen of promotion in the music industry. But is she really relevant? Put in Britney's vocals on any of Madonna's current songs and they would sell AND sound the same. If "The Rainbow Children" had the same promotional team and recording deal as Bruce Springsteen's latest album, I'll bet U it would have sold around the same and garnered as much attention.

Prince predicted the state of recording industry as we know it now, which is in a bad shape. They don't breed artists, they breed "hit makers" that lose appeal after the same formula has grown tired and the public moves on 2 something new. And when MP3 users steal the singles, what have U got left? The rest of a bad album that nobody wants 2 buy. Artists are few and far between.

People who question why artists like Prince R considered "fallen" because they don't have chart hits anymore need 2 look at the whole picture and really study up on how the recording industry was b4 and what it is 2day. Chuck D. is on-point.

GEMINEYE

laurarichardson said:

Hilarious. Rod is on J-Records. Now look up who runs that label. Hint: it's the same "racist ass" that gave Prince $11 million for the piss-poor Rave.

gemineye69 said:

Utter BS.

gemineye69 said:

LOL. Eminem's latest had a mere TWO tracks by Dre. Hell, Eminem WROTE some of Dre's raps in the past.

gemineye69 said:

How dumb can people be? Why would Arista bother promoting an album they didn't care about, especially since there was no guarantee that Prince's next album would be on their label if this one was a success? Arista/BMG knew perfectly well Rave would bomb, and they were not gonna wast too much money and time on an ungrateful f*ck of an artist who spent the best part fo the 1990s backstabbing the most artist-friendly major label there was after they'd bankrolled his career for years and had allowed him to waste millions of their money of ridiculous stuff like Carmen Electra.

gemineye69 said:

No it wouldn't.

gemineye69 said:

BS. Prince has courted major labels for years after becoming independent. Emancipation? On EMI. NPS/GCS2000/Chaka's album? ALL on BMG. Rave? Arista/BMG (after shopping it around to all labels). He was shopping High around to major labels. He'd been talking with WB to release a 2-CD Greatest Hits. And if he wasn't doing that, he was licensing his stuff to stupid labels that released his stuff with extra tracks on them by lame gangsta rappers.

gemineye69 said:

In the early 1990s, that's EXACTLY what Prince was trying to do. Ask Jill Jones about what happened to her second album, look at Carmen Electra, etc. "The Family" was a great album, but don't forget that it was a calculated attempt at going after "the Duran Duran money".

NPGFlav said:

Prince called his own shots on Rave? Sure, Chuck, whatever gets you through the day. As for Rod: why don't you ask the hugely overrated Clive Davis, who signed him to his label?

Oh, and if a tree falls in the forest and there is nobody around, does it make a sound? Let's see how Prince likes being an independent artist in five years time when the money really runs out, when his fanbase shrinks even more, when his records don't even get mentioned in the press, etc.

SummerRain said:

where did u hear all this anyway?
when i hear some audio or video proof then i will believe this.

Once again, Chuck D hits the nail on the head.
Maybe the author of Possessed should write about the rise and fall of the music industry as a whole, because much of what Prince has been saying about it for the past 10 years is now happening.
Yeah, Prince has fallen from the mainstream, and today the mainstream consists of crappy rappers, ie., 50 cent, American Idol doo-doo and Now That's what I Call Music 280.
Brilliant musician that he is, Prince will be just fine. He'll continue to make great music, especially live, and he'll make mistakes, no doubt. But he'll continue on his own path, and in the end, that's a good thing.
And the chances of him becoming a complete nutcase like MJ are pretty slim. That's a definite bonus.

CAMILLE4U said:

Get em all mate They are worth it...

I'd recommend "Fear of a Black Planet", "It Takes A Nation Of Millions To Hold Us Back" and "There's a Poison Goin On". But all the others are brilliant too... also check out Chuck's solo effort "The Autobiography of Mistachuck" which is a much funkier affair.

Chuck D rules hiphop, and actually I agree with him on this point regarding the book title but I haven't read the book yet so I'll reserve judgement.

Right on Chuck D!!

shygirl said:

what the fuck is your problem that u can't make a post on this site without saying something nasty about MJ?
& with your comments ppl wonder why Michael has self-esteem issues.

laurarichardson said:

True, so true.

Wow,what an interesting discussion.I'll just sit back and let y'all carry on...

I think we can be pretty sure that Prince will release albums on major labels again in sometime. As long as he gets agreements similar to the one with Arista, he's fine with it.
BTW, I think even with such one-off releases he remains an independent artist.

Why do black artists get tagged with this and how the hell does ROD STEWART still have juice?"


Always gotta be a 'black' thing.



.

laurarichardson said:

1.) Prince isn't just an R&B artist, he just gets shevlved there in the record stores and in some peoples minds.

2.) Because I don't like his output from the past 10 years as a whole, exluding some tracks here and there, please don't make a hasty generalization that I hate R&B because you're wrong.

I had to respond to this, because I love Chuck D. and Public Enemy. Although his comment was critical, I'm still pleased that he mentioned my book. I hope he reads it. The book esteems him highly, and credits Public Enemy with being at the forefront of the movement that made rap into a vital musical force.

I think if Chuck reads even parts of the book, he'll see that in arguing Prince has "fallen," in a manner of speaking, I'm certainly not comparing him to Rod Stewart or even Mick Jagger. I'm holding him to the standard of Miles Davis, Duke Ellington, John Lennon, and Jimi Hendrix, because his talent is that sphere. The title of the book is what it is, but the book itself (I hope) conveys more subtlety and nuance than the phrase that makes up the title.

Also, I think Chuck might agree somewhat with the point that Prince was not successful in integrating rap into his own music in the early 1990s, and that he did so primarily for commercial, not artistic reasons. As discussed in the book, Prince didn't even like rap music and began incorporating it mainly to sell records. And he chose weak-ass rappers. If Prince had worked with Chuck D., rather than T.C. Ellis and Tony Mosley in the early 1990s, I would have been delighted. Instead, Prince waited until Rave to work with Chuck D.

I remember getting goosebumps the first time I heard "Fight the Power" and especially the line about Elvis. Rock on, Chuck!

gemineye69 said:

Emancipation and Rave were loaded with sugar coated radio friendly fluff. It didnt impress the radio stations and it certainly didnt impress his diehard fans either. No justification is gonna save moments like that in his career. Sooner or later he's gonna run out of fingers to point.
[This message was edited Mon May 12 7:28:42 PDT 2003 by Tom]

NPGFlav said:

I wonder if Chuck actually read the book first, since it isn't showing by his remarks. In my view Prince has defintly fallen and that has nothing to do with racism in the industry, but everything with himself.

Abrazo said:

Chuck never said his lack of commercialism etc. at this point in time was do to racism... he said black artists out of the limelight and who dont sell large numbers get tagged as "fallen from grace" etc. more often than others.


flava flav gold teef edit
[This message was edited Mon May 12 7:48:23 PDT 2003 by rdhull]

Chuck D was always a brother that you could count on for truth and no bullshit. You better recognize, haters

Joshy84au said:

quite, what amuses me is it appears she believes Prince is perfectly normal.

"Where's my camel? it's only 3am"

i'm not moving the discussion on though, so i'll shut up.

rdhull said:

Which point in time do you refer to? I only meant that the reasons why Prince has fallen in numerous have simply everything to do with Prince himself.
And I still wonder if Chuck really first read the book, instead of pre-judging it by its cover/subtitle.


fallen edit
[This message was edited Mon May 12 11:08:34 PDT 2003 by Abrazo]

I can honestly say as a "white" male, I have never made a concious effort to point out "black" musicians "falling from the limelight" moreso than their "white" counterparts.

There's so many more important things throughout the day that I have to keep track of and worry about than this imaginary vendetta I supposedly have against other cultures, simply because I'm "white".

Can someone please tell what this "org gay mafia" is all about? I see this commented on almost every story on prince.org.

Tom said:

Thats the thing..when its done its mostly unconscious.



Who said anything about a vendetta? Or you?

rdhull said:

ok, for the sake of being anal, the exact specific term "vendetta" was not used in his post. he's remarking how people are predisposed to think less of "black" artists, to which I am using the metaphor of a "vendetta" against black artists.

assuming that i unconciously and uncontrollably hate and discriminate "blacks' is a bit harsh now isnt it?

are you exempt from this?

TheDeacon said:

I think some politician or some other prominent person a few years ago made headlines when he made accusations of a gay mafia that existed in our culture, of homosexuals who network and use their combined efforts to intimidate others.

It was pretty amusing.

The gay org mafia seems to be a spoof of this, in reference to the large number of homosexuals on here. Basically, you'll get flamed to high hell if you say anti-gay stuff on here LOL.