http://www.npgmusicclub.c...m-pt2.html Freedom, Pt. 2: The Chocolate Invasion
In the first part of this commentary, we discussed how the “technical” appearance of the NPG Music Club might mislead some people in2 thinking that the Club is just another machine churning out musical product 4 consumers. As current NPGMC members know, nothing could b farther from the Truth. Its use of direct-access technologies is a clear indication that it has moved far beyond the traditional approaches of the recording industry. It uses technology 4 what it is meant 2 b, i.e. a tool that can b employed 2 realize a vision — not an end in and of itself. ...

[Please click through to the link for the rest of the article, I won't reproduce it all here... -Ben]

How much is the opportunity 2 attend a soundcheck by Prince & The NPG and an interactive chat session with the artists worth 2 u?

Its worth the money I paid in the concert ticket. If this were a membership benefit then I could attend the soundcheck without purchasing a concert ticket at $100 a pop. Same goes for the "aftershows" as many were turned away from the Marquee in London for having the wrong colour laminate from a previous night.


How much is the opportunity 2 attend a week-long celebration in Prince’s own Paisley Park Studios — with hours and hours of xclusive live per4mances as well as intimate sessions with highly talented musicians — worth 2 u?

Again, a great point but flawed by the point that you have to pay an additional entrance fee. This is not a member benefit as such.

How much is the opportunity 2 purchase front-row tickets 4 the next Prince & The NPG concert in ur town b4 they go on sale 2 the general public worth 2 u?

As someone who lives in London, I have to admit that this has been of benefit to me, although the prices for the shows were astronomical and something should be done to give the members a better deal on ticket prices. The argument back from NPGMC has been that the member price is higher than the public price as it includes the soundcheck and after-party access however this clearly contradicts point 1.

How is this a benefit to the members in Australia though I wonder ?

How much is the opportunity 2 hear and own new Prince recordings and attend Prince shows — in which he is not constrained by any commercial considerations and has no artistic compromises 2 make — worth 2 u?

Eh ? This one just doesn't makes sense and sounds like someone's shouted around "anyone got a fourth benefit we can chuck in ???" Non-members were allowed to the gig and non-members can buy the ONA-Live album. If Prince isn't constrained by commercial considerations why were the ticket prices so high and Prince even say "do you think Rhonda doesn't deserve a bonus?" at one of the gigs ? So staff wages aren't a commercial consideration eh ? I must mention that to my employees at the next round of pay reviews !!

How much is the opportunity 2 own CDs and DVDs of such shows worth 2 u?

Oh dear, someone really is scraping the barrell now aren't they ? Firstly WHAT DVD's ??? Secondly read the above response, this only works if the live cd's are exclusive to members which they are clearly not.

The overall tone of the last point is in fact insulting saying "what are they worth to us". This isn't a bidding war, if Prince is really not interested in commercial consideration then he would be selling the cd's to us at cost not asking us what they're worth.

I'm sorry but as much as this article rambles on about commerciality and how it should be treated like an enterprise then an open book accounting should be used where its clearly demonstrated that profits are not being made.

Yes, Club membership has a price… but it is not the price u might think. The price u have 2 pay is that u have 2 adjust ur mind 2 a different approach, one where money is not the goal.

SO if money is not the goal, memberships free then next year is it ?

U R 100 % RIGHT !!!
What more could I say?
U R RIGHT!

P.S.
Did U send it 2 the Club?
U should!

thanks for the comments, however there's little point sending this reply to NPGMC as I'll only receive back something along the lines of..."it is up 2 prince" or something suitably cryptic and non-sensical.

Yes, Club membership has a price… but it is not the price u might think. The price u have 2 pay is that u have 2 adjust ur mind 2 a different approach, one where money is not the goal.

Well, the Club membership is $100 whether you adjust your mind or not.

For someone who says money don't matter he sho nuff do charge enuff for this stuff!

Perhaps it's Prince rather than the fans who should adjust his mind to where money is not the goal. Wasn't he the one who proudly announce not too long ago that he was 'number one at the bank'? Yeah, off our membership fee/celebration tickets/concert tickets/merchandise! Or does he not make any money out of all this? Call me old fashioned but I'm not the one living in a purple mansion!

Support your local Prince!

They've really got some nerve talking like this. In light of the seemingly broken promises regarding the 4 CD's deal, terrible (or rather none) customer service, dead servers when ordering showtickets, etc. Takes some courage, really... but, well, does not win my appreciation

FreekyFeet is right

The "value" of a membership depends on where you live.

I live in Australia

A NPGMC membership costs US$100 (AUS$200).

The fact is he can't tour the globe, to every country and town in the space of a years membership. I accept that.

So, what does NPGMC offer to members who pay but don't get the oppertunity to attend a soundcheck, interactive chat sessions, who can't afford to attend Celebration, who's country gets no tour?

It sounds like he's expecting an uproar from this years "experience" (namely a 30min CD, and a 3 disc set that will go into stores anyhow), so to remind members of sound checks, Celebrations, etc, may make the fans CONsider a 2003 membership. Even he's feelin' it, you can tell.

So what can NPGMC do?
Unless he tours everywhere members live, not much. That's why this club doesn't work in it's current form.
I think he should submit a survey on his website for feedback on what the fams expect in a membership, and come to some sort of common ground.

What will a Australian NPGMC get other than AUS$200 for only 4 cd's?
Members in countrys that miss out should get sent something in lieu of missing a tour, like filming a tour and putting it on DVD and sending it to members of that country only.
Sure, other places miss out, and it then also becomes a much sort item, but then hey, those members didn't get to see Prince in the flesh. Or experince the "experience"

While I can see some of the points raised here,
I found this "article" great, pretty clear and very thought provoking, especially the references to having or making ethical choices... When I choose to buy better food it's more expensive but I'm prepared to pay for that option. I still feel Prince is in an experimental phase of things, he seems to be working things out as he goes, sometimes it's not efficient, but I do believe that he is genuine in trying to provide a new dimension of thinking within the music world...
What I feel him to be saying here is that you have a choice and you can exercise that choice and is $100 that much for most people who can benefit from that choice...?
I really don't know why so many people speculate about the money he is making... I understand that it is way beyond the likes of most of us, however do you ask the same questions about Bill Gates and Microsoft? I mean are you all Linux users? Do you ask the same questions about Starbucks, AOL or Nike which are REALLY exploiting us all... or the general "health" of the music industry per se?
Apart from the fact that I love Prince's music, I have also totally understood and stood by the "Slave" era which I thought was a brilliant move, and the concept of changing his name to a symbol...I don't blindly go with everything he does, I'm not going to become a JW or anything but I think this piece is one of the more concise pieces to appear on his site and I think he should send it out to the media across the world...
No-one at his level is being accessible in this kind of way, and for as private a person as he has been he is quite amazing at those soundchecks... and at the aftershows too...
So I am looking forward to reading more responses to this article especially more favourable ones!!!

Plus if you don't want to be a member then don't give up the 100 bucks!

Also, if you have real gripes about Club membership and issues then surely if enough people express those in writing Prince will take a look at them, he's listened to people before and I DO believe he listens to club members with somewhat open ears!

Rebeka said:

That's a good point, but what if you paid $75 for that food directly from the manufacturer but then found that you could buy it for $50 from the supermarket next door ? Wouldn't you question that ? I'm not questioning the value of the product, just that there's an inbalance in the value attributed to the CD's that isn't in line with the retail price.



No, but then again Microsoft, AOL & Nike don't protest that they don't care about the money when Prince stated years back that dealing directly with the fans would LOWER the price to us and in fact could lead to music being given away.



Two words - David Bowie



A fair point as long as people realise and accept what they get for the 100 bucks instead of being misled.

Rebeka said:

NPG Magazine ???

The majority of the things that are offered on the NPGMC site profit oriented.

With that in mind, I know I can (and I'm sure there are many others on all sides of the fence on this) offer much more for the amount of money that is coming in.

So...now the ethical question comes to play. If you are looking at charging a certain price for an unestablished amount of goods and services, would it not be more "ethical" to offer as much as you could while still maintaining a decent profit margin? Is there more the NPGMC can offer while maintaining a profit margin?

Leave us, who do not throw our money at the club, alone.

You will not convince us that everybody is treated fair. Do not try to endorse your product on the spoils of a small percentage.

You have your core "flock" that you can fleece at will. The rest of us are "gravy." Treat us as ones whose support is welcomed. Understand that the ideas we offer may be able to garner future support, thus funding future endeavors.

Understand that we are tired of being pit against our fellow Prince fans by seperatist documents that give a sense of purpose to those who willingly endenture themselves to your cause, while at the same time, insulting those of us who retain our individuality and look at all sides.

Do not tell me how "spritual" the club is when you cannot even divine specifics of the club until the knowledge has already been circulated to the public community by alternate sources.

By any other name, with any other mask, a rose is still a rose, turd is still a turd, yet the TRUTH is in the eye of the beholder. The beholder can turn a rose into a turd, and vice versa. Rather then convince oneself to see one for the other, why not see things for how they really are.

- Cheers
[This message was edited Wed Nov 27 7:53:03 PST 2002 by Dauphin]

Rebeka!

You hit the nail right on the head!! You are looking at this situation in the same realm that I would.

So much complaining goes on about the club, particularly about how much everything costs. To me it's a pretty clear, cut & dry situation. If you think everything is too expensive, don't join!

Membership to the NPGMC allows you to have 1st access to all the other stuff. You can't even GO to the Celebration unless you're a club member. All those downloads last year... you couldn't get that if you weren't a club member. You can't attend a soundcheck unless you're a member or a friend of a member who has a ticket for you.

I read freakyfeet's synopsis and I thought it was interesting and well thought out. But it appears that the main basis for his/her discussion is to complain about how much everything costs. The words "Money", "Fee", "Price" and "Cost" are mentioned in every one of his rebuttal statements. It just shouldn't be this complicated. If you don't have the "Money", if the "Fee" is too steep, if you feel the "PRICE" isn't justified, or if you think the "Cost" is too much... Just Don't Join.

It's as simple as that.

:Peace: to all and Happy Thanksgiving!

So it seems to be an elitist mentality is forming from all the members that are trying to justify there membership. If you can't afford don't join is the mantra. But that's not the point everybody else is trying to make. Most of us can afford the $100. We love Prince's music that much (notice I said his music, not Prince)

The point we're trying to make is that there is a misrepresentation of what we get for the membership price(4cd's and now a mention of a nonexistent DVD. And there should be more of a clarification that a big portion of the membership is paying for the privilege to spend a great deal more money on events that might or might not happen in your part of the world), as well as a failure to make good on the original vision he put forth on why he wanted out of the "system" (cheaper music, free music etc. Everything is more expensive that it ever was under Warner Brothers) plus a blatant hypocrisy between his words and his actions ( again, his constant statement that it's not about money when his concerts, CD's merchandise etc cost more than ever. If he just came out and said "money is important and I need to charge more to get this done as an independent" than at least he would be honest)
And yes we can just walk away if we don't like it, but the reason why we're not is that we see the potential in what it could be. We were shown that potential by alot of Princes original statements.

well said jazz

redzryder - whilst I appreciate I mention money a great deal in my post, that's not the core of my concerns.

the reason I centred on the money is that this is what NPGMC centred on. Jazz makes a good point in that the membership price was misrepresented when we joined and that is the core of our problem.

yes, I have a right to not join but I do not have the right to have my $100 for 2002 returned.

Let's c:

$100.00
- 59.99 at Best Buy for Live Box (price varies I know)

$ 40.01 left

$ 40.01
- 14.03 cost of ONA piano

$ 25.98 left

$25.98 = Being in a club and why?

CONCERTS:
If you are a non-member and you go to a concert
you pay the PRICE.

If you are a MEMBER, you have soundchecks, up
close and personal seating, and a possible after-
partee.

Do you think you should get in free? or a bonus price?
The soundchecks, etc, are your bonus as a member.
NICE!

CELEBRATION:
Again, you think that you should get in free?
or a bonus price?

Do you think the PP staff WORKS FOR FREE?

They have families, the musicians, security, soundcheck,
etc.

It sounded like this CELEBRATION, 7 DAYS, AND 7 NIGHTS,
was full of harmony, fun, and togetherness. It brought
people together from all over the world.
The people that entertained at the Cele had to be
paid as well.

AS FAR AS MONEY GOES:

Some do spend $100 on a dinner - sometimes!

AUSTRALIA:
There are many people that can't go to concerts,
so, the LIVE BOX set is a pleasure to have.

For those of you that get to go, you can reLIVE it.

What else does the club mean to you?
SUPPORTING AN ARTIST, AND THE NPG MUSICIANS and their
quest for freedom with their music, their art!

Yes - you will have to decide what it is worth to you.

Don't ya DIG the music?





[This message was edited Wed Nov 27 10:24:43 PST 2002 by EchoOfMySoul]

Realistically, after this year I can't see me renewing my membership. As far as i'm concerned, I'd reap the same as being a non member.

Prehaps, here is hoping, prehaps the DVD is coming before the memberships expire of the celebration and that is the Xenophobia thing. Ill go back to sleep now because its only a dream anyway.

You´re absolutely right EchoOfMySoul!
I´m very glad that I can support an independent artist who provides us with uniquely excellent music.
The quality has obviously improved since the HIGH Album in 2000 and I look forward to listening to sophisticated stuff like Xenophobia, hopefully in the near future!

P.S.: Of course the NPGMC is not a non profit organsation, why should it be? Don´t ya´ll get paid for your jobs?

Stop whining and put on your headphones like I do: :Music:

"Let's c:

$100.00
- 59.99 at Best Buy for Live Box (price varies I know)

$ 40.01 left

$ 40.01
- 14.03 cost of ONA piano

$ 25.98 left

$25.98 = Being in a club and why?

CONCERTS:
If you are a non-member and you go to a concert
you pay the PRICE.

If you are a MEMBER, you have soundchecks, up
close and personal seating, and a possible after-
partee.

Do you think you should get in free? or a bonus price?
The soundchecks, etc, are your bonus as a member.
NICE!

CELEBRATION:
Again, you think that you should get in free?
or a bonus price?

Do you think the PP staff WORKS FOR FREE?

They have families, the musicians, security, soundcheck,
etc.

It sounded like this CELEBRATION, 7 DAYS, AND 7 NIGHTS,
was full of harmony, fun, and togetherness. It brought
people together from all over the world.
The people that entertained at the Cele had to be
paid as well.

AS FAR AS MONEY GOES:

Some do spend $100 on a dinner - sometimes!

AUSTRALIA:
There are many people that can't go to concerts,
so, the LIVE BOX set is a pleasure to have.

For those of you that get to go, you can reLIVE it.

What else does the club mean to you?
SUPPORTING AN ARTIST, AND THE NPG MUSICIANS and their
quest for freedom with their music, their art!

Yes - you will have to decide what it is worth to you.

Don't ya DIG the music?

it's not the value of the product I have a problem with. It's the double talk nonsense they spew out to get you to join.

I thought "clubs" were for communication..not to bait and switch club members on club benefits..
[This message was edited Wed Nov 27 14:56:15 PST 2002 by speculator3m]
[This message was edited Wed Nov 27 14:56:31 PST 2002 by speculator3m]

I think the NPG club is essentially a great idea, it was very generous in the first year, this year I don't know, personally I reckon I just about have got my value out of it having seen 1 soundcheck and being seated 1 whole row in front of the general public.

But I get really fed up with all this talk about the 'opportunity' to do stuff being part of the membership. It reminds me of an old joke I vaguely remember the beginning of which goes like this, a husband and wife book themselves into a hotel, later when they settle the bill they notice a huge add-on to their total for use of a Jacuzzi. "But we never used the Jacuzzi!" they complain, "Ahh" says the hotel manager, "But the 'opportunity' to use it was there!"

"But we never saw a soundcheck or afterparty!" some npg members complain, "Ahh" say the rest, "but the 'opportunity' to see a soundcheck was there!"

Imagine if all businesses worked that way, like if you wanted to buy a train ticket, but first you had to buy a membership before you were allowed the 'opportunity' to buy a ticket.

Fact is some members never used their opportunity but they're still having to pay for it and I feel for those members, it doesn't seem quite right. The only thing you can guarantee to every member is the 4 cds and when 3 of those are going to be available to the public for less money and in some cases before the members discs arrive and you only find that out at the end of the year when it's too late, well those members have to ask what's the difference between being a member and being joe public? Not very much.

What about next year? Prince could again offer 4 cds, then send Purple Rain, Lovesexy, Sign 'o' the Times and 'Parade'. Err, but we've already got these?..."Yeah, but it's still 4 cds as promised, and if you didn't own them already they would be new!

Next year I will hold back my membership until there is something that I want and know is actually in the process of being delivered!

Yes EchoOfMySoul, I was going to add a post similar to your first one until I read yours. Strictly speaking about monetary value of the club, this year really isn't too bad. Subtract out the retail price of 50-60 bucks for the box set (A lot for 3 cd's, but fairly realistic for an actual box set) and roughly 10 bucks for the Piano cd, and that leaves a cost of 30-40 for the rest of the perks like good concert seats, soundchecks, merchandise, celebration, etc.

Compare this to the Dave Matthews Band club. While I'm not very familiar with that particular club, I recall hearing that they basically charged 30-40 dollars for a year's membership, and the main perk was the possibility to get great seats for shows. I don't remember hearing about extra cd's or anything, though I could be wrong (feel free to correct me). My point is that the cost of the NPG music club seems reasonable for what we have *received* (or will be receiving soon anyway).

I highlight the word received because I also agree with a lot of the other negative posts here. From a cost-only perspective I think things are reasonable, but from an expectations perspective, things are not reasonable. At the beginning of the year, we were promised 4 cd's, and while it is true we technically received 4 cd's, Prince and his staff had to realize that everyone would assume 4 albums of new material, especially with the promotion in the tour books. Cost-wise I am happy, but I'm not getting what I expected, and to a lot of members, that is disconcerting. When you lay down any amount of money for something in advance, you expect to get what was advertised or implied.

I think the recent commentaries are good reads, and fairly intelligent about what Prince would like the club to ideally be, but the fact is the commentaries don't quite jive with the real deal. People have mentioned many examples already here and in other threads, but basically it feels like Prince isn't delivering what he promised.

My hope is that the club will continue to grow, and Prince will consider all the criticisms that hopefully make it to his eyes with an open mind. This is only the second year, and this year was a radical change from the downloads of last year. A lot of people here, whether they are happy with the club or not, can see that there is potential for much greater success, IMHO.

I do hope NPGMC solicits feedback from the members sometime in the next month, because it's hard to say how many emails currently make it to Prince.

Looking forward to the future (and ONA Live! I picked the wrong week to come home for break... thanksgiving-schmanksgiving).

seventhson1975 said:

Realilstically you will not reap the same as a non member. You will have no chance at going to the celebration, you will have no chance of going to a sound check or after party with out someone who is a member, you will have no chance at the best seats at the concert that you can attend. You will have no chance of owning an official Purple Rain Guitar (that I have) You will not reap the same as a non member. You will not hear the music first, you will not receive downloads, you can get it from kazaa, (second rate I might add) oh yeah, and you can buy the boots of the shows at prices more than the membership. You will be able to talk smack about Prince and his club but ou will be on the outside looking in and we will be on the inside looking out at all you wanna be's.

redzryder...not to pick, just to comment.

I don't think it was intended that our gripe is the cost of the membership. It's easy to focus on that the cost as a way to vent our frustration.

The bottom line is year 2001 vs 2002.

2001 was a mass of exclusive music. Yes High, Underneath the Cream, and Peace were sold at the Hit and Run shows, but if you didn't make it to the concert, you didn't know they exisited. The videos, sure some of us had seen them before, but to own copies! Wow. Yeah, some of the music was a variation of the album version, some was virign to our ears. The Audio Shows, were...well...shows. But everything was exclusive. Even The Rainbow Children was ours to enjoy for at least 4-6 weeks.

2002...ohkay. First dibs on Concert tickets- if you could afford it. The Celebration - if you could afford it. ONA (studio) -if you like that sort of thing. ONA - Live...alright. Fair enough, concert audio - if you like that sort of thing. The biggest problem, it is mailed two weeks before it can be found in record stores at 15 dollars less than what was paid through membership. (25 for ONA studio/ 75 for ONA Live. Most stores 49.99 to 60.00)

So, once again, its not about the dollars of membership. It's the service that has been or obviously not provided. Thus, a lot of people are comparing what they had and how they were treated vs the present. Prince has his vision. We the consumers have ours. If Prince was to make a us happy, he would compromise.

EchoOfMySoul said:

Completely out of context Echo. If you go the concert you pay A price which is lower than the members.

If you are a MEMBER you PAY for a higher priced ticket which gives you access to the soundcheck, POSSIBLE better seating (if you get there at the right time) and a POSSIBLE after-party but ALL FOR THAT NIGHT ONLY

It is NOT free entry for members else we could go to ALL soundchecks and after-parties for FREE.

If they were a bonus as a member then the ticket price would be the same as for the general public.

freakyfeet said:

+++++
Echo say:
Thank u, I understand.

I guess it all depends on how much
ONE wants to be a member, and have these
opportunities.


[This message was edited Fri Nov 29 8:37:39 PST 2002 by EchoOfMySoul]

jazzy328is said:

Wanna be's??? You're the one defending Prince like he's your God -- defending any naysayers/concerned individuals with remarks, all of which have no weight whatsoever. Who's the wanna be??? They're not. They're the ones NOT defending Prince and his club, bashing anyone who speaks negatively about it. Anyone who has the belief that those who aren't "on the inside" are wanna be's" have a deficiency in the ability to think rationally. Do you feel that you're better than the others just because you're part of this club they may choose to no longer be a part of? Obviously you do, for the comment you made speaks for itself.

It reminds me of the celebration when some people got to feeling all bad ass and above the others because they started schmoozing with the NPG staff. Next thing I know, they're acting as semi-authorities on the craziest, stupidest stuff. They had to feel that power and/or that closeness with Prince somehow, even if it was an indirect relationship. Kinda defeats the Love4OneAnother way of life. It's hilarious, and at the same time pathetic and sad.

Anyway, in short, here is your Mentality: People with concerns CANNOT be taken seriously because it relates to your Prince. Pathetic. Deny it all you want and defend yourself to the hilt, but you already made your own bed with your comments.

Remember though, no one's perfect. Our emotions get worked up and sometimes we write things before we think all the way through. We have all been there at one time or another. So, unmake your bed. Just acknowledge your emotions got in the way and see their argument for what it's worth. Respect and Credibility factors go way up when one does that. A true test of humility as well. Trust me, we've all been there before. So, though it sounds like a vicious attack, it wasn't. It's just something you needed to be called to the carpet on.

A Peaceful Wild to you & everyone else.
T-O-DoubleD

NPGJughead said:

Jughead, quit tripping, My point is that a non member will not have the same benifits as a member. (That is all)

So Prince is my God! Do you smoke Crack? So if I disagree with a statement that someone makes, I'm worshipping Prince. If you disagree with the statement I make then what?
Does that make Prince your enemy (The Devil)? As a member I do get certain opportunities that I would not get as a non-member Period. This sight is full of so many people who bash everything that Prince does, I just refuse to be in that number, I don't follow his personal lifeor business ventures, I just dig the Music and since he is the creator of that music I dig his as well. Thats not a crime, I consider it a Privledge. And I also welcome your comments against what I say, I don't take it personally,

Peace and be wild.