gumbo31 said:

Hi, my native language isn't english, but i think i do understand some basic grammar rules. Just look at what refers to what and then the NPGMC has done what is written above, because:

exclusive refers to array of experiences (site, soundchecks, aftershows and unreleased CD's. While the non-members can only get CD's who are already released to the members)
unreleased refers to the CD's we receive They are unreleased at the moment we receive them. It's like getting maried to a Virgin. At the moment you marry her she is a virgin, but no one will say that she will stay a virgin forever...and the question is if you would want that.)

ISN'T IT?
[This message was edited Thu Nov 28 2:43:31 PST 2002 by potser]

Can someone share the ONA with me???

Frampton's "COME ALIVE" still kicks ass and I didnt have to join anything. Guess IM not loved as much as other's cause the green aint on the scene for the groupie's show. yall are sick. Love the Mans music tho forever.

You know, it never fails...some of you are going to complain no matter what. Everyone has been waiting for this moment for months. Anticipating the arrival of The Live Box Set. I made a bet with an anomynous friend, who is also a Prince fan, that the most of you would still complain, even after the Box Set is released and even after it's at your doorstep.

Let me get something straight, are we complaining about the fact that the general public is getting a product that was suppose to be exclusive to members...?

To me that's very selfish, I'm not a member, I've tried to be; but with rent, insurance, and car payments, my budget didn't allow me. I'm sure I love Prince just as much as you paying members, maybe even more. So I don't deserve to purchase or hear music that Prince has written or put out, because it's supposedly 'exclusive' to members?

Correct me if I'm wrong, I thought we all wanted Prince to get the attention and recognition he deserves. Releasing this album to the public, won't shoot him to 'Pop' stardom again (who cares about that anyway). But it will surely remind the world that has forgotten, what a brilliant, ingenius musician he is. "Yeah I said it!"

And as usual here we go with the; "If I was Prince I'd" or "Why didn't Prince?" and "Though I have the Set I've long waited for, I'm still not satisfied because I want, or think Prince should've..."

Can we give it a rest, enjoy the music that you have. Chill out, do what the flyer suggests "Block out a weekend to groove to this package..."

And have a Happy ThanksGivem!

Blue
Times...times

TheBluePrince said:

100% true...amen!

Well said BluePrince...ur talkin' loud and sayin' SOMETHING!!!

So I suppose nobody cares for a review.

Is it that bad ?

"great" work Prince: More contention among your fans.

U make some good points BluePrince, but NPGMC claimed they we're going 2 do something and so far it looks like they are not going to do it. The other cds like Xenophobia, we're promised, extra surprises as well. Now why in the world would I join the club again , if I can get the same stuff that the members get 4 less $???

TheBluePrince said:

Exactly, waiting for MONTHS. No word from the club on why it existed, and was promised to us if you were at the Celebration, for 6 months, without a word on where it was, what was going on, and if we were even getting it anymore. What happened to the artist-public connection? This isn't a hard thing to do, plenty of other artists do it, you just have to be a man of your word -- or good at explaining why you changed your mind. That's not hard, either.

I don't often see a manufactured complaint. Some people bitch about unnecessary things, or bitch about things unnecessarily, but generally it's still a valid complaint. If the releases and the club practices didn't give people so much fodder to chew on, people wouldn't have as much to say. Don't promise one thing, and deliver something else. Don't lose track of orders, manage your inventory piss-poorly, and deny paying customers the goods they paid for, and then try to compensate for it by sending everyone another copy of the CD. A) Some people are still bound to never receive their paid copy of ONA Live, B) Most club members would now have 2 ONA studio CDs, so the people that missed out the first time are still owed an ONA studio CD. They paid the same as everyone else, they get the same as everyone else. Valuing just "getting the material" in your hands is not an excuse for them to practice at a low standard, and for you to lower your standard for them.

No, it's not a matter of who "deserves" what. In this world, you get things with money. Either you have it, or you don't. Maybe you got lucky and came across money in your life, maybe you didn't. But in the end, there's no one else who owns the responsibility for it but yourself.

What the members should get, is what they paid for. They paid for "XCLUSIVE" access to these things. And if you're not a member, then yes, that means you SHOULDN'T get it. That isn't selfish on the part of the members to expect that. It's selfish for you to expect to get something that you didn't sign up for. Whether you pay for it in a retail store or not, it was explicitly stated as exclusive to members of the club, and that's what you should be to get it.


Who told you that? I know I, and a lot of other people, just want quality output, in a timely manner, when we were told it would happen. Completely reasonable; it was what we were told we would get, and should expect. It has nothing to do with anything as vain and superficial as recognition and attention.

If you don't care about pop stardom, why would you care about attention and recognition? Someone's been listening to Prince's talk too much...

Yeah, I hate it too, when everyone has the "best" solution for the problem. So, I just rely on rational, reasonable standards of commerce. I'm not talking about the content of what I want him to release. That's just ridiculous. I'm just talking about the way in which he delivers his product.

The problem is that you're not holding a business, something thousands of people pay large sums of money to, up to the same standard that you would hold a simple acquaintance. It isn't a difficult thing to be honest and forthright. You just have to respect the people you're dealing with, and that's something Prince has demonstrated time and time again that he does not do.

Why would I join a club like this? Because over time things have improved, and I hope for more improvement. Also, one day, Prince might learn to follow his word, and then the opportunity to take part in all that is going on will have passed.

ShabasLove said:

This is silly. you expect that Prince will not release his music to retail chains and only expects to live off of the sales through his itty bitty music club? That junk would never fly, with Prince and nobody else who makes music for a living! How naive is that! Just because club members are supposed to get it FIRST does NOT mean they are the only ones going to get it. If people really think that's what was going to happen it's time to wake up, like 2 years ago!

Bladerunner said:

Before you start accusing people of being "silly" or "naïve", why don't you back your shit up. I don't see any numbers on how "itty bitty" the club is. I don't see where the NPGMC claimed club members would ONLY get new product FIRST.

1998 was Prince's best year ever, financially. I believe in the area of $30 million, net. (I could get the numbers, but I'm not going to bother -- since you didn't.)While the Crystal Ball set did have a short run in Best Buy, Musicland and Sam Goody stores, the majority of those ended up as cutouts. At one store alone, I counted 94 copies of Crystal Ball, all cutouts, on sale for $24. After a CD has been declared unsellable, as in a cutout, generally no money is paid to the artist as an album sale/royalty. Besides, he most likely would've had a contract for a sum of money up front, not one based on sales. Therefore, the bulk of Prince's money came from the (claimed) 250,000 copies sold direct from the website. Whether that's 250,000 units or CDs doesn't much matter. What does matter is that the money was made selling the CDs directly to the public, and that's what Prince has been claiming, and has ostensibly proven, keeps all the profits with the artist, instead of with the record company, distributor, etc.

So, yes, selling the CDs exclusively through direct sales is a viable option; whether that's through a music club or through a transactional website is insignificant. If he made the ONA Live set available to non-members only through his website, a YEAR from now, then I wouldn't have a problem with it. Until he sticks to plans like those, I have a place to say my piece. Making the point that Prince SHOULD stick to his word isn't naïve or silly, it's reasonable.

ShabasLove said:

There is no "shit" to back up. ANYONE expecting someone with Prince's overhead to live off of nothing but his internet music club without the benefit of having his music on the retail market IS _NAIVE_, and that expectation is silly if that's what you and anyone else thought. Period. Many people with with much less in expenses can do it, Prince can't unless he wants to give up some of those expenses. Period. His overhead was based on his income from being backed and supported by a major label, if anyone thinks an internet club ALONE is going to cover the cost of all that, they need to wake up. 2 years ago!

And whatever is contained in the orgnote, please do not orgnote me about this again. Both of us have been saying what we want here, there is no need to take it private.
[This message was edited Sat Nov 30 16:29:14 PST 2002 by Bladerunner]

Well...all I have to say is...

if you're that unsatisfied with the club, DON'T JOIN AGAIN!

I was born in America, I know that to get 'things' you need 'money'. That's no big secret...but just because the club gives you an offer ($100 4 CDs) and you take it, don't be mad at me because I'm buying the same thing off of the shelf.

Club members got the oppotunity the non-members couldn't get. Killer seats and access to the Soundchecks, but ofcourse that isn't enough. Maybe I didn't have $100 last year, but guess what, I have $60. now, so I'm going to get my box set and listen to it, just as the paying club members are probably right now.

You're dealing with an independent artist now, your complaining as if you expect Prince Inc. to act as a record label/distributor. I agree, he should deliver on all promises made to club members. You keep saying, "Prince isn't being business savvy..."

Okay write Prince, or the club and tell them about them selves, since you seem to be an expert.

By the way I don't care about 'Pop-Stardom' or whatever. But I do care about respect. I believe Prince deserves respect for the his contributions and the musician that he is...

Now I think for all of the parties involved in this discussion. A line from the song 'Housequake' is in order!

"Shutup already...Damn!"

Blue
Times...times

Bladerunner said:

Haaahahahaha! Wooohoohoohoohooo! Thanks, man -- that cracked me up.

If you had bothered to skim, in two seconds flat, the orgnote I sent you, you could've seen the note contained exactly what I wrote here. The effort was not to "take it private", as if I were attempting to take some two-faced, subversive angle on your argument. I simply wanted to alert you to the fact that I had responded, and I wanted to see what you had to say. Dreadfully sorry.

In fact, I should've just wrote the orgnote out to point you to the thread, instead of pasting my whole response. That was terribly wasteful and inefficient on my part, and for that, I will not orgnote you again. Ever. I promise.

But, again, thanks!

TheBluePrince said:

Thank you!

pimpytheclown said:

Anything with the word Pimpytheclown is meaningless... take for example the post "sdldawn Syndrome"

wow.. eye guess it really does take all kinds

Bladerunner said:

this is ridiculious. Overhead? What do you know about that man. I say nothing. And I say you bloody well should know that when you cut out all the middlemen you can make very good money.

Abrazo said:

Exactly.

Shut up, already? This is intelligent conversation compared to most of the spatting on this site.

Yearly income from back catalog royalties alone: circa $5 million. Last album advance (Rave): $10 million. 3 Celebrations: $1,060,000+. Concert revenues: more than he's made in years, doing a world tour WITH concert promotors again. Up-front income from 2 years of music club: unknown, but obviously enough.

Save for Rave, Prince hasn't had an album advance since the album, since nothing since then has sold 5 million copies. Prince was close to bankruptcy in 94-95, at the peak of his high "overhead" days, spending gross amounts of cash on things like the $1 million "pussy" set. So, through most of the 90s he had no album advances while with a record company, he had the independent distribution deals, same as he's doing now, plus he had less of a back catalog to gain royalties from. And the big key: he had no online distribution or transactional website of any kind at that time. Now he has all of that, plus the largest online revenue. Obviously the man is making things work. How do you think he's survived all these years without the album advances from a major record label? You think the distribution deals are keeping him afloat? Think again.

Obviously he can make more money by signing a distribution deal for a product he's already producing, but if he were to simply promote sales through his direct website, and avoid the major-market chains, he'd probably do even better from the direct revenue. He'd need more of a back office staff than the 1-800-NEW-JUNK people, but he'd probably see more profit than trying to sell a new CD no one in the mass market wants, or a $60 3-4CD set that no casual listener would pick up in a store and manage to make it to the register with the product in hand.
[This message was edited Mon Dec 2 13:53:43 PST 2002 by ShabasLove]
[This message was edited Tue Dec 3 15:00:37 PST 2002 by ShabasLove]

Abrazo said:

Of course you say nothing because you ASSume you think you know who you're talking to. I know what exactly I need to know about Prince's expenses. Don't be childish and assume YOU know if you don't have a working brain. Nobody said he couldn't make a lot of money cutting out the middle man. Learn to use SOMEONE'S brain since you're not using your own and learn what I said and did NOT say. Then maybe it will sink in.

Bladerunner said:

oooh I ÁSSúme... how bad from me! and you know SO much about Prince! wow get real