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Reply #30 posted 07/19/21 5:44am

JoeyCococo

I figure, since there has been NO fan fare from the Estate about this, they have nothing to do with this release. That's the part I'm not clear on ..... I can only conclude WB has access parts of his discography and can actually get access to the masters to do these remasters. If so, i'm happy as hell ...this sounds great. What else can there be?

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Reply #31 posted 07/19/21 6:18am

BartVanHemelen

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JoeyCococo said:

I figure, since there has been NO fan fare from the Estate about this, they have nothing to do with this release. That's the part I'm not clear on ..... I can only conclude WB has access parts of his discography and can actually get access to the masters to do these remasters.

.

I really don't understand why this keeps coming up, year after year, decade after decade. Because this has been debated over and over again.

.

When WBR and PPR split on 1 Feb 94, Warners got to keep the big releases (The Time, Sheila E, possibly V6 and A6 -- note that most of those releases weren't on PPR anyway since PPR didn't exist back then) and PPR got to keep later releases (hence NPG Records re-releasing the second Mavis Staples album and the second George Clinton album). (It's a bit unclear what the situation is with 1980s PPR output like The Family and Jill Jones etc., I'd assume those went to Prince.)

.

The Prince Estate has zero control of those releases, for the simple reason they weren't part of the 2014 Warners contract. (Like I said: bad business man.)

.

And again: learn the difference between physical masters (mixdowns) and multi-track master recordings and rights to masters. Of course Warners has masters of The Time etc., otherwise they couldn't produce physical records back then. They don't have access to the multi-tracks.

© Bart Van Hemelen
This posting is provided AS IS with no warranties, and confers no rights.
It is not authorized by Prince or the NPG Music Club. You assume all risk for
your use. All rights reserved.
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Reply #32 posted 07/20/21 3:32pm

SoulAlive

when Rhino finally contacted Morris and the guys,I was hoping that there would be a few special events connected to this 40th anniversary.Have there been any podcasts,interviews,or special performances?
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Reply #33 posted 07/20/21 8:56pm

JoeyCococo

BartVanHemelen said:



JoeyCococo said:


I figure, since there has been NO fan fare from the Estate about this, they have nothing to do with this release. That's the part I'm not clear on ..... I can only conclude WB has access parts of his discography and can actually get access to the masters to do these remasters.




.


I really don't understand why this keeps coming up, year after year, decade after decade. Because this has been debated over and over again.


.


When WBR and PPR split on 1 Feb 94, Warners got to keep the big releases (The Time, Sheila E, possibly V6 and A6 -- note that most of those releases weren't on PPR anyway since PPR didn't exist back then) and PPR got to keep later releases (hence NPG Records re-releasing the second Mavis Staples album and the second George Clinton album). (It's a bit unclear what the situation is with 1980s PPR output like The Family and Jill Jones etc., I'd assume those went to Prince.)


.


The Prince Estate has zero control of those releases, for the simple reason they weren't part of the 2014 Warners contract. (Like I said: bad business man.)


.


And again: learn the difference between physical masters (mixdowns) and multi-track master recordings and rights to masters. Of course Warners has masters of The Time etc., otherwise they couldn't produce physical records back then. They don't have access to the multi-tracks.




Bart...tx. this was informative. Can you elaborate further on physical mixdown vs Mukti tracks?
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Reply #34 posted 07/20/21 10:22pm

embmmusic

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BartVanHemelen said:

same with Tevin Camplbell: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1ixm3c7MM4 .

It doesn't actually appear as though the Tevin album was released. Despite having a Feb release date, the expanded edition doesn't appear on any streaming services and the official pre-order page is still up with pre-order links. There was supposed to be a limited vinyl release on the same date and the only vinyl version I'm able to find online is an unofficial Jamaican release.

Check out The Collector's Guide to Prince on YouTube here: https://www.youtube.com/p...4ldzxwlEuy
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Reply #35 posted 07/20/21 10:28pm

embmmusic

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JoeyCococo said:

Bart...tx. this was informative. Can you elaborate further on physical mixdown vs Mukti tracks?

When music is recorded in a studio, it'll be recorded on multi-track tape or software. Basically this means that every instrument will be on it's own slider with the ability to increase or decrease the volume, add effects etc. The mixing engineer will create the final version of the track using these, putting instruments higher or lower in the mix and adding any effects required. This will then be converted to a stereo tape or file which only has the left and right channels with no further ability to adjust the individual elements. This is the mixdown which Warners will have. This is a fairly simplified version as there are a few more steps but that is essentially the difference.

Check out The Collector's Guide to Prince on YouTube here: https://www.youtube.com/p...4ldzxwlEuy
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Reply #36 posted 07/20/21 11:16pm

rlittler81

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embmmusic said:

BartVanHemelen said:

same with Tevin Camplbell: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1ixm3c7MM4 .

It doesn't actually appear as though the Tevin album was released. Despite having a Feb release date, the expanded edition doesn't appear on any streaming services and the official pre-order page is still up with pre-order links. There was supposed to be a limited vinyl release on the same date and the only vinyl version I'm able to find online is an unofficial Jamaican release.

Yeah, I've not been able to find anything about the deluxe edition, I don't think it was released here in the UK but there's no trace of it anywhere, not even on discogs.

3121... Don't U Wanna Come?
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Reply #37 posted 07/21/21 12:22am

BartVanHemelen

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JoeyCococo said:


Bart...tx. this was informative. Can you elaborate further on physical mixdown vs Mukti tracks?

.

GOOGLE IT. Sheesh. It's 2021.

© Bart Van Hemelen
This posting is provided AS IS with no warranties, and confers no rights.
It is not authorized by Prince or the NPG Music Club. You assume all risk for
your use. All rights reserved.
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Reply #38 posted 07/21/21 12:32am

Pellwormer

BartVanHemelen said:



JoeyCococo said:



Bart...tx. this was informative. Can you elaborate further on physical mixdown vs Mukti tracks?

.


GOOGLE IT. Sheesh. It's 2021.


lol
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Reply #39 posted 07/21/21 2:49am

BartVanHemelen

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embmmusic said:

BartVanHemelen said:

same with Tevin Camplbell: https://www.youtube.com/w...1ixm3c7MM4 .

It doesn't actually appear as though the Tevin album was released. Despite having a Feb release date, the expanded edition doesn't appear on any streaming services and the official pre-order page is still up with pre-order links. There was supposed to be a limited vinyl release on the same date and the only vinyl version I'm able to find online is an unofficial Jamaican release.

.

Apparently in some kind of genius move the "expanded edition" was released, but it completely lacked any mention of it being expanded (which it technically wasn't, it was simply the full album with the Prince tracks included which were previously missing), nor does it mention Rhino: https://open.spotify.com/...VMVb8uiZYv and https://music.apple.com/u.../321975623 . And https://music.youtube.com...ture=share .

.

No vinyl release was ever announced: https://media.rhino.com/p...gh-profile

.

[Edited 7/21/21 4:51am]

© Bart Van Hemelen
This posting is provided AS IS with no warranties, and confers no rights.
It is not authorized by Prince or the NPG Music Club. You assume all risk for
your use. All rights reserved.
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Reply #40 posted 07/21/21 9:10am

Cinny

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SoulAlive said:

It looks like a nice reissue,but those single edits are pointless.


shrug I'm looking forward to the ones that don't run nine to ten minutes long.

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Reply #41 posted 07/21/21 10:07am

embmmusic

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BartVanHemelen said:



embmmusic said:




BartVanHemelen said:


same with Tevin Camplbell: https://www.youtube.com/w...1ixm3c7MM4 .



It doesn't actually appear as though the Tevin album was released. Despite having a Feb release date, the expanded edition doesn't appear on any streaming services and the official pre-order page is still up with pre-order links. There was supposed to be a limited vinyl release on the same date and the only vinyl version I'm able to find online is an unofficial Jamaican release.



.


No vinyl release was ever announced: https://media.rhino.com/p...gh-profile


.

[Edited 7/21/21 4:51am]


This is where I saw the vinyl announcement but it seems to be the only source: https://wemissmusic.com/2...ted-vinyl/
Check out The Collector's Guide to Prince on YouTube here: https://www.youtube.com/p...4ldzxwlEuy
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Reply #42 posted 07/21/21 2:07pm

JoeyCococo

BartVanHemelen said:



embmmusic said:




BartVanHemelen said:


same with Tevin Camplbell: https://www.youtube.com/w...1ixm3c7MM4 .



It doesn't actually appear as though the Tevin album was released. Despite having a Feb release date, the expanded edition doesn't appear on any streaming services and the official pre-order page is still up with pre-order links. There was supposed to be a limited vinyl release on the same date and the only vinyl version I'm able to find online is an unofficial Jamaican release.



.


Apparently in some kind of genius move the "expanded edition" was released, but it completely lacked any mention of it being expanded (which it technically wasn't, it was simply the full album with the Prince tracks included which were previously missing), nor does it mention Rhino: https://open.spotify.com/...VMVb8uiZYv and https://music.apple.com/u.../321975623 . And https://music.youtube.com...ture=share .


.


No vinyl release was ever announced: https://media.rhino.com/p...gh-profile


.

[Edited 7/21/21 4:51am]




[Snip - luv4u]
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Reply #43 posted 07/21/21 2:09pm

JoeyCococo

embmmusic said:



JoeyCococo said:


Bart...tx. this was informative. Can you elaborate further on physical mixdown vs Mukti tracks?

When music is recorded in a studio, it'll be recorded on multi-track tape or software. Basically this means that every instrument will be on it's own slider with the ability to increase or decrease the volume, add effects etc. The mixing engineer will create the final version of the track using these, putting instruments higher or lower in the mix and adding any effects required. This will then be converted to a stereo tape or file which only has the left and right channels with no further ability to adjust the individual elements. This is the mixdown which Warners will have. This is a fairly simplified version as there are a few more steps but that is essentially the difference.




Tx...I do understand this part. To be sure, WB does not have the Mukti track, only the 2 ch stereo? If so, they brought forth a lot more detail using just that ...
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Reply #44 posted 07/22/21 2:46am

embmmusic

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I just put up an unboxing video of this release: https://youtu.be/3_Ess1DF-0g

Check out The Collector's Guide to Prince on YouTube here: https://www.youtube.com/p...4ldzxwlEuy
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Reply #45 posted 07/22/21 7:46pm

SoulAlive

embmmusic said:

I just put up an unboxing video of this release: https://youtu.be/3_Ess1DF-0g



nice!
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Reply #46 posted 07/22/21 11:28pm

Graycap23

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this sounds great!

[Edited 7/22/21 23:42pm]

FOOLS multiply when WISE Men & Women are silent.
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Reply #47 posted 07/31/21 9:42am

tyme

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VaultCurator said:

Hi everyone. So I’ve done a few tests and here’s my review.

In answer to the Persian’s question, I do have an Edirol DAC plugged into my Windows PC. Unfortunately the headphone socket is dead and it’s a bit late to be playing music loud through my monitors.

As, such I’ve opted to use my favourite pair of Sony headphones and my PC’s internal sound card. This won’t matter so much as I decided to download a CD quality copy of the new remaster so I can compare all three versions at the same bitrate.

So for this comparison I’m using 16-bit, 44.1khz FLACs of…
* The original issue album
* The 2015 Japanese remaster
* The new 2021 remaster


Test 1: Wave forms.

3xlyYLX.jpg

As you can see, the original issue CD is the quietest by quite a long way. The 2015 version is the loudest, as a result a lot of the fine detail has been shaved off of the top. The 2021 version seems to get the balance right with better volume that the original and none of the clipping.


Test 2: Spectral.

TXscBlM.jpg

As you can see both the original issue CD and 2015 remaster cap at the 20KH mark, however on the 2021 remaster the data appears to stretch to the limit on the CD quality version and to about 45KH on the on the HD FLAC.



Test 3: Listening

I normalised the volume across all the versions as best I could and listened to samples of all three versions. The original CD didn’t sound awful at first, but it was a little flat and the clarity in the vocals wasn’t the best. Sounded a tad muffled in the mid section.

I then tried the 2015 remaster and was far more impressed. Much brighter, the music had more punch to it and the vocals were a lot clearer. Better bass and mid section. Despite the visible clipping I really liked the sound of this version.

I then tried the 2021 which has a lot of the qualities I liked in the 2015 remaster. It was clear, vibrant, the vocals sounded great, the bass was there, but I didn’t think there was a lot it.

Clearly the original issue was lacking, so I set that aside and compared the 2015 and 2021 remasters more closely. I kept going back and forth and there were times I was convinced the 2021 version was better, then I’d convince myself they were too close to separate.

That was until I noticed a key difference. The drums in the 2021 version had far more snap to them. I could particularly hear it in the kick drum. I reckon the clipping in the 2015 version has dulled the beat of the drums, whereas in the 2021 remaster they still sound nice and sharp.

After spending time with all three, the 2021 version is my favourite. Perfect volume balance, no clipping, plenty or snap in the drums, clearer vocals. The 2015 version isn’t bad by any means and has served me well for years, but the 2021 version is my go to copy now.


Edit: Sorry. About a dozen spelling errors.

[Edited 7/16/21 15:54pm]

Thanks so much for this assessment. I hadnt spent any time with the 2015 offering but, in lay-terms I agree that the Hi Res (96/24) digital download on this 2021 remaster is spectacular. I have been chasing Hi Res Digital the last few years because they have always out performed even the best streaming (Tidal/Amazon) I've actually been quite impressed with the new high fidelity Apple. Withthat, its kinda fun to put those services up against the digital downloads. In a head to head, the Hi Res digital download of The Time is far superior to streaming but, strangely, the head to head between the Hi Res (96/24) Download of W2A is on par with what Apple is streaming. ...in all honesty, i actuallly prefer the soundscape of The Time Hi Res vs W2A Hi Res. I did not expect that. Anyway, hooray remasters and fidelity! Keep em coming!!!

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