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Reply #60 posted 03/11/21 3:40pm

JudasLChrist

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jaawwnn said:

Genesia said:


All you have to do is listen to the early early bootleg of Kiss with just Prince and his guitar to know it's the song, not what Mazerati did with it, that's great.

And they never would have had the kind of hit with it that Prince did - so thank goodness he took it back. (Even though I maintain to this day that the song is out of place on Parade.)

Oh I don't know, you could go a lot of directions with that Prince demo, I think they did a lot with it. How far they would have went I don't know, it's certainly not finished in the Mazarati version we have and Prince's finishing touches make it genius rather than very good.

[Edited 3/11/21 10:46am]


Agree. Mark/Mazarati/David Z did a lot with that song. It was literally just a 1-3-5 blues. Prince brought it over the top, but people should get credited for their contributions.

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Reply #61 posted 03/12/21 4:46pm

ThatWhiteDude

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Genesia said:



ThatWhiteDude said:




Margot said:




Peggy McCreary addressed this. She said, "he took it back after he heard what Mazerati had done w/it". She also said that Prince kept quite bit of what they had contributed but over-dubbed with his voice. He did not have to make too many changes.


He could have talked about how they added so much to the song, or given them some credits or paid them under the table.


Every time I hear Kiss, I can't really enjoy it knowing the background.


Mazerati was an independent band who worked under the Paisley Park umbrella. They were likely afraid to rock the boat.


[Edited 3/6/21 12:06pm]


[Edited 3/6/21 12:10pm]



again, if they were able to make a song like kiss, then why didn't their career skyrocket after Prince? Seriously, Kiss is one the best songs he ever created, surely, they would've been able to recreate such a song, if they really added that much to it. I just don't believe it.




All you have to do is listen to the early early bootleg of Kiss with just Prince and his guitar to know it's the song, not what Mazerati did with it, that's great.

And they never would have had the kind of hit with it that Prince did - so thank goodness he took it back. (Even though I maintain to this day that the song is out of place on Parade.)


yeahthat
"Like books and BLACK LIVES, Albums still MATTER."

Poppys, Shanon319, Number23, Kares. #lifttheban
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Reply #62 posted 03/12/21 5:39pm

Margot

Think of it this way (just for shits and giggles):

1. Prince gives a groove, ditty or a type of rough melody to Mazerati

2. They work on it and make it pretty good

3. He takes it back because he now recognizes it's potential

4. This song had meaningful contributions made by several musicians

5. Subtract costs to run Paisley etc

6. Pro-rate a fair percentage.

7. GOOD KARMA...priceless

[Edited 3/12/21 17:40pm]

[Edited 3/12/21 18:22pm]

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Reply #63 posted 03/18/21 7:26pm

endiadj

All these people claiming credit for Prince's songs, why didn't they sue him for credit? Were they that afraid of him or maybe their claims are a bit exaggerated.
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Reply #64 posted 03/18/21 7:54pm

Margot

endiadj said:

All these people claiming credit for Prince's songs, why didn't they sue him for credit? Were they that afraid of him or maybe their claims are a bit exaggerated.

Prince had more money, lawyers, power.

Levi Seacer did sue.

Sandra St Victor had a similar situation and said she did not have the same resources to sue.

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Reply #65 posted 03/25/21 3:03pm

FrankieCoco1

He gave Mazarati 100mph, that was how he complimented/paid for contributions. Did it many times over the years.
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Reply #66 posted 03/26/21 11:06pm

Margot

FrankieCoco1 said:

He gave Mazarati 100mph, that was how he complimented/paid for contributions. Did it many times over the years.

He should have given them appropriate credit for Kiss which was a block-buster hit. 100 MPH not even close.

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Reply #67 posted 03/27/21 12:15am

Margot

Margot said:

FrankieCoco1 said:

He gave Mazarati 100mph, that was how he complimented/paid for contributions. Did it many times over the years.

He should have given them appropriate credit for Kiss which was a block-buster hit. 100 MPH not even close.

Artists need to be compensated for the work they do, not what someone randomly decides to give them instead. Prince would not have tolerated what he did to Mazerati. There are laws about this.

[Edited 3/27/21 0:19am]

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Reply #68 posted 03/27/21 12:10pm

PennyPurple

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Margot said:

Margot said:

He should have given them appropriate credit for Kiss which was a block-buster hit. 100 MPH not even close.

Artists need to be compensated for the work they do, not what someone randomly decides to give them instead. Prince would not have tolerated what he did to Mazerati. There are laws about this.

[Edited 3/27/21 0:19am]

They were his employee's and not solo artists. Big difference.

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Reply #69 posted 03/27/21 1:26pm

ThatWhiteDude

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Margot said:

Margot said:

He should have given them appropriate credit for Kiss which was a block-buster hit. 100 MPH not even close.

Artists need to be compensated for the work they do, not what someone randomly decides to give them instead. Prince would not have tolerated what he did to Mazerati. There are laws about this.

[Edited 3/27/21 0:19am]

Is that so? Well, then why didn't Mark just take it to the court? I mean, obviously that law is in his favor, isn't it? If he had credible proof that he made kiss, then I'm sure he would've been able to settle this issue with legal actions, right?

"Like books and BLACK LIVES, Albums still MATTER."

Poppys, Shanon319, Number23, Kares. #lifttheban
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Reply #70 posted 03/27/21 4:05pm

JudasLChrist

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ThatWhiteDude said:

Margot said:

Artists need to be compensated for the work they do, not what someone randomly decides to give them instead. Prince would not have tolerated what he did to Mazerati. There are laws about this.

[Edited 3/27/21 0:19am]

Is that so? Well, then why didn't Mark just take it to the court? I mean, obviously that law is in his favor, isn't it? If he had credible proof that he made kiss, then I'm sure he would've been able to settle this issue with legal actions, right?


Obviously, suing Prince is an expensive proposition. Probably not worth it to try. We should acknowlege the power differntials when we have these conversations.

That said nearly everry musician who worked with Prince on the regular talks about how Prince would lift their riffs or things they wrote.

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Reply #71 posted 03/28/21 2:47am

mediumdry

PennyPurple said:

Margot said:

Artists need to be compensated for the work they do, not what someone randomly decides to give them instead. Prince would not have tolerated what he did to Mazerati. There are laws about this.

[Edited 3/27/21 0:19am]

They were his employee's and not solo artists. Big difference.

.

Prince was a Warner Brothers employee. (sure, talk about work for hire and employment contracts, but he had a contract that said that everything he recorded was for Warner Brothers. Close enough for me) Sure didn't stop him complaining about the deal he got. The band members never complained about songs being released under the Prince or "Prince and the whatever" name. However, writing credits, which are separate from artist, solo or not, are about the song, not about who performs it. The bands did get performer credits where they performed, but the songwriting credits (oddly enough the credits that pay more) were hardly ever shared by Prince. Not in the album credits, not in the actual registrations (which is the important one).

.

Prince was an asshole and extremely generous person, often at the same time. Doesn't mean that nobody got screwed over by him.

.

As to Kiss, the released track is the Mazarati track with several Prince vocal tracks and guitar added and a number of things (including bass) removed. It is the clearest entry where Prince didn't share credit appropriately. Not sure who deserved more credit, but it's more of a collaboration than most Prince tracks.

[Edited 3/28/21 2:48am]

Paisley Park is in your heart - Love Is Here!
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Reply #72 posted 03/30/21 2:21pm

FrankieCoco1

I’m trying to find the interview, which either Peggy Mac or Susan Rogers gave, that mentions Mazerati/David Z trying to work with the demo tape for Kiss and they were struggling because there was only the one verse. Prince then provides the second verse. Might have been a radio interview!

To me Prince wrote the song, David Z with Mazerati did an arrangement. Prince liked some of it (perhaps in Prince’s mind, the bits David Z did?) and added his own twist. Hence, no co-writing credit but arranger credit for David Z. But I wasn’t there, so what do I know.
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Reply #73 posted 03/30/21 2:42pm

Margot

Peggy MCreary was the engineer and commented on this already. It's on the recent interview held @

Sunset Sound.

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Reply #74 posted 03/30/21 2:52pm

FrankieCoco1

Margot said:


Peggy MCreary was the engineer and commented on this already. It's on the recent interview held @


Sunset Sound.




Thank you, I’ll listen to them again for that bit and the other great insights.
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Reply #75 posted 04/07/21 7:45am

3rdEyeUnlimite
d

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The latest episode of Sinnik22's Youtube series on Prince discusses this very incident in detail, including clips of the original demo and the changes that were made by all involved parties (starting at 15:33). It sounds a lot like what was alleged in the interview honestly. Check out Prince's last words in the clip and tell him if he sounds serious.

This is awesome series by the way, it should be heavily featured on the org.

WHEN PRINCE & EVERYBODY WROTE KISS

https://youtu.be/CG8YkPRwT-g

[Edited 4/7/21 7:53am]

The Poster Formerly Known As Elephants and Flowers
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Reply #76 posted 04/08/21 3:46am

thebanishedone

guys i have a question,did Brown Mark made such a claim that he co wrote Kiss while Prince was alive?

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Reply #77 posted 04/08/21 9:06am

Margot

thebanishedone said:

guys i have a question,did Brown Mark made such a claim that he co wrote Kiss while Prince was alive?

I don't think publically, but likely his friends/associates were aware.

I bet he was fearful to open that can of worms w/NDA's and Prince's litigious proclivities.

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Reply #78 posted 04/15/21 12:49pm

Ottensen

Margot said:

I forgot to mention Wendy,Lisa, Jesse in the list of complainants.

I know that not every riff or groove qualifies for credit, but I get the real sense that

many of these musicians contributed quite a bit that was not properly acknowledged.

[Edited 2/20/21 10:52am]

Agreed. I'm not so blinded by my love for Prince to exclude the contributions of other musicians to some of his best work.

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