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Thread started 10/31/20 3:56am

funkbabyandthe
babysitters

revolution were best for songwriting, npg were the best as a band

Revolution inspired prince to be a better songwriter. Not necessarily a crack team of musicians, but def they seemed to understand songwriting and how to innovate within pop formats, include more influences, be more expressive

The npg inspired prince to be a better musician or coincided with him wanting to become one. At this point, he wanted to improve as a musician from the 90s I think, not as a writer. Having a more fluid, technically able, slick and polished band helped him do this.

I'm including the 87 and 88 band in the same npg bracket but obv they were a 100 times sharper than princes bands post 88. His greatest band imo.

Discuss.
[Edited 10/31/20 4:00am]
[Edited 10/31/20 4:31am]
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Reply #1 posted 10/31/20 4:12am

antonb

Total rubbish , Prince went through Ups And Downs creatively like any other great artist. The band he was with didn't make much difference on the songwriting front. He wrote 98 percent of it.

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Reply #2 posted 10/31/20 4:29am

funkbabyandthe
babysitters

True

But you dont think who is around you influences and inspires you?
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Reply #3 posted 10/31/20 5:06am

donnyenglish

Revolution took/misappropriated songwriting credit. Prior and later bands had better musicians and more contributions to his music. Morris Day contributed more to Prince's music than any member of the Revolution. Same can be said about Sheila, Sonny and others.

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Reply #4 posted 10/31/20 5:29am

OperatingTheta
n

I agree that for the most part, all the incarnations of the NPG were a superior live band to the Revolution.

I think the Revolution encouraged certain colours and whimsy in Prince's music, but ultimately in any environment with any band members, most of the choices were Prince's. But that environment and those various musicians will obviously communicate different textures, inspirations and influences.

*
[Edited 10/31/20 5:30am]
[Edited 10/31/20 5:31am]
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Reply #5 posted 10/31/20 5:35am

OperatingTheta
n

donnyenglish said:

Revolution took/misappropriated songwriting credit. Prior and later bands had better musicians and more contributions to his music. Morris Day contributed more to Prince's music than any member of the Revolution. Same can be said about Sheila, Sonny and others.



I absolutely agree that Morris Day contributed more to Prince's music overall, than any member of the Revolution. The Time were a superior live band to the Revolution also, with the exception of Prince's input.

There's a lot of myth-making in the over-stated importance and relevance of Wendy and Lisa (and even Susannah), that I find slightly distasteful.


*
[Edited 10/31/20 5:36am]
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Reply #6 posted 10/31/20 6:12am

LoveGalore

Prince did whatever prince wanted to do. Incidentally, so did his hired musicians.
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Reply #7 posted 10/31/20 7:07am

donnyenglish

OperatingThetan said:

donnyenglish said:

Revolution took/misappropriated songwriting credit. Prior and later bands had better musicians and more contributions to his music. Morris Day contributed more to Prince's music than any member of the Revolution. Same can be said about Sheila, Sonny and others.



I absolutely agree that Morris Day contributed more to Prince's music overall, than any member of the Revolution. The Time were a superior live band to the Revolution also, with the exception of Prince's input.

There's a lot of myth-making in the over-stated importance and relevance of Wendy and Lisa (and even Susannah), that I find slightly distasteful.


*
[Edited 10/31/20 5:36am]


The better the musician, the more secure they are with their contributions. The more secure associates do not feel the need to constantly misappropriate his genius. Those that speak the loudest probably contributed the least. Prince idolized Sonny T. I am certain Sonny is more responsible for Prince’s genius in 1994-1996 than Wendy/Lisa is for 1984-1986. But, Sonny doesn’t feel the need to misappropriate and misrepresent. As a result, his credibility and his contributions are beyond reproach.
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Reply #8 posted 10/31/20 7:09am

AvocadosMax

I completely agree! It’s finally settled.
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Reply #9 posted 10/31/20 7:31am

funkbabyandthe
babysitters

Morris most influential? Really? eek
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Reply #10 posted 10/31/20 7:36am

donnyenglish

funkbabyandthebabysitters said:

Morris most influential? Really? eek

The body of work with Morris speaks for itself. They created 2 great albums together and Morris played on, co-wrote and influenced many Prince songs from 1980-1984.
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Reply #11 posted 10/31/20 7:22pm

Margot

donnyenglish said:

OperatingThetan said:
I absolutely agree that Morris Day contributed more to Prince's music overall, than any member of the Revolution. The Time were a superior live band to the Revolution also, with the exception of Prince's input. There's a lot of myth-making in the over-stated importance and relevance of Wendy and Lisa (and even Susannah), that I find slightly distasteful. * [Edited 10/31/20 5:36am]
The better the musician, the more secure they are with their contributions. The more secure associates do not feel the need to constantly misappropriate his genius. Those that speak the loudest probably contributed the least. Prince idolized Sonny T. I am certain Sonny is more responsible for Prince’s genius in 1994-1996 than Wendy/Lisa is for 1984-1986. But, Sonny doesn’t feel the need to misappropriate and misrepresent. As a result, his credibility and his contributions are beyond reproach.

I bet Sonny has alot of stories...some complimentary.

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Reply #12 posted 11/02/20 7:08am

OldFriends4Sal
e

avatar

moderator

The energy and backgrounds of the people in his camp/bands does make a difference. Prince channelled from everyone and reflected into everyone.

.

I count the Revolution as the 1999 band too and might as well connect that to the Controversy band as well. If the NPG can be all the bands from 1988 onward then might as well call the 1978-1986 band the Revolution since many of the Revolution members were there since the beginning.

.

1978-1987 were the best years songwriting/performing/inspiring combined. PURPLE MUSIC was technically over after 87/88

#ALBUMSSTILLMATTER
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if you ever try the lotus position
Try it while you're being strangled
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#IDEFINEME
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Reply #13 posted 11/02/20 11:55am

donnyenglish

OldFriends4Sale said:

The energy and backgrounds of the people in his camp/bands does make a difference. Prince channelled from everyone and reflected into everyone.

.

I count the Revolution as the 1999 band too and might as well connect that to the Controversy band as well. If the NPG can be all the bands from 1988 onward then might as well call the 1978-1986 band the Revolution since many of the Revolution members were there since the beginning.

.

1978-1987 were the best years songwriting/performing/inspiring combined. PURPLE MUSIC was technically over after 87/88

If we split it up into 4 general bands--Revolution (78-86), Lovesexy (87-1991), NPG (1992-2012) and 3EyeGirl (2013-2016) this becomes a more interesting conversation. The best live band was the NPG era. Prince was more of a solo act from 78-86 and had less involvement from his musicians in the studio. I don't think his band can take credit for any creative peak that he had during from 78-86. I do think the expanded concept of the Revolution to include Andre Cymone and Dez Dickerson makes that band much more formiddable than the traditional Revolution (84-86), which was probably his weakest collection of musicians. We never saw what 3EG could become, but that band does not get nearly enough credit. Each band was great in their own right.

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Reply #14 posted 11/02/20 12:40pm

OldFriends4Sal
e

avatar

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donnyenglish said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

The energy and backgrounds of the people in his camp/bands does make a difference. Prince channelled from everyone and reflected into everyone.

.

I count the Revolution as the 1999 band too and might as well connect that to the Controversy band as well. If the NPG can be all the bands from 1988 onward then might as well call the 1978-1986 band the Revolution since many of the Revolution members were there since the beginning.

.

1978-1987 were the best years songwriting/performing/inspiring combined. PURPLE MUSIC was technically over after 87/88

If we split it up into 4 general bands--Revolution (78-86), Lovesexy (87-1991), NPG (1992-2012) and 3EyeGirl (2013-2016) this becomes a more interesting conversation. The best live band was the NPG era. Prince was more of a solo act from 78-86 and had less involvement from his musicians in the studio. I don't think his band can take credit for any creative peak that he had during from 78-86. I do think the expanded concept of the Revolution to include Andre Cymone and Dez Dickerson makes that band much more formiddable than the traditional Revolution (84-86), which was probably his weakest collection of musicians. We never saw what 3EG could become, but that band does not get nearly enough credit. Each band was great in their own right.

But we have to acknowledge that we are comparing people in their teens/tweenties to people in later years (just like Prince; much better guitar player in 2007 then in 1987) but was 2007 more interesting than 1987. People just get better as they continue. Me as an artist at 17 cannot even come close to me at 47.

.

We have to acknowledge sound/instrument/technology in 1978-1986 vs each latter period. There was a jump in technology in the latter 80s as well.

.
So there are so many more variables that have to be considered.
.
In 1998 Prince said the people he had in his camp in the 1980s period were a 'community'
How Prince was, being more closer to be a 'regular' person than latter in his career being more removed from being a 'regular' person. Why the proteges of 1981-1987 worked and by 1990-they didn't work.

.

Dr Fink, Lisa Coleman Brown Mark Eric Leeds Atlanta Bliss (if you want to conclude Bobby Z wasn't the most flashy drummer and Wendy wasn't as skilled on guiter) as 'weak'?
.
Was Andre actually better than BrownMark? I don't think most keyboard players could touch what Lisa had or Dr Finks wiz etc And Eric and Atlanta (and Eddie) sorta defined horns in Prince sound) that I don't think I've heard ever again.

.

yes it's a more interesting picture of discussion.

#ALBUMSSTILLMATTER
https://prince.org/msg/7/464433 9.24.2020
if you ever try the lotus position
Try it while you're being strangled
Do U understand what I'm saying?
#IDEFINEME
It’s unloving and selfish to be easily offended
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Reply #15 posted 11/05/20 4:38am

jaawwnn

avatar

What Prince was doing circa the Revolution is more interesting to me as a listener. Whether that was down to the people he had around him, or the people he had around him were there because of what he was doing, or both, or neither, I can't say for sure.

I like all his career but he tended to write more formally in specific styles after, say, 1990, or maybe after he built Paisley Park. He could still write great music, and there were plenty of surprises over the years, but i do prefer the musical blend he had going on from 1980-1988. It sounds more exploratory, artistic, and less, I dunno, professional, to me.

Similarly, some people want to hear a band sounding perfect live, and various iterations of the NPG could do that live in a way the Revolution couldn't (this is also down to technology don't forget), but personally I don't. I like to hear the mistakes, and the experiments that don't work, and the attempts that almost get there but fail at the last moment because of a dodgy backing vocal. I don't want to hear faux-gospel singing and jazz-lite "improv" instrumental sections. I prefer a failed attempt at something new over a successful homage to something that already exists. Your own mileage mary vary.

[Edited 11/5/20 4:45am]

"I think people ought to know that we're anti-fascist, we're anti-violence, we're anti-racist and we're pro-creative. We're against ignorance."
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Reply #16 posted 11/08/20 5:50am

violetcrush

OldFriends4Sale said:

donnyenglish said:

If we split it up into 4 general bands--Revolution (78-86), Lovesexy (87-1991), NPG (1992-2012) and 3EyeGirl (2013-2016) this becomes a more interesting conversation. The best live band was the NPG era. Prince was more of a solo act from 78-86 and had less involvement from his musicians in the studio. I don't think his band can take credit for any creative peak that he had during from 78-86. I do think the expanded concept of the Revolution to include Andre Cymone and Dez Dickerson makes that band much more formiddable than the traditional Revolution (84-86), which was probably his weakest collection of musicians. We never saw what 3EG could become, but that band does not get nearly enough credit. Each band was great in their own right.

But we have to acknowledge that we are comparing people in their teens/tweenties to people in later years (just like Prince; much better guitar player in 2007 then in 1987) but was 2007 more interesting than 1987. People just get better as they continue. Me as an artist at 17 cannot even come close to me at 47.

.

We have to acknowledge sound/instrument/technology in 1978-1986 vs each latter period. There was a jump in technology in the latter 80s as well.

.
So there are so many more variables that have to be considered.
.
In 1998 Prince said the people he had in his camp in the 1980s period were a 'community'
How Prince was, being more closer to be a 'regular' person than latter in his career being more removed from being a 'regular' person. Why the proteges of 1981-1987 worked and by 1990-they didn't work.

.

Dr Fink, Lisa Coleman Brown Mark Eric Leeds Atlanta Bliss (if you want to conclude Bobby Z wasn't the most flashy drummer and Wendy wasn't as skilled on guiter) as 'weak'?
.
Was Andre actually better than BrownMark? I don't think most keyboard players could touch what Lisa had or Dr Finks wiz etc And Eric and Atlanta (and Eddie) sorta defined horns in Prince sound) that I don't think I've heard ever again.

.

yes it's a more interesting picture of discussion.

Right OF4S. I think it's just ridiculous to state that one group were/are "better" musicians than the other - unless it was a situation of "all things being equal" - but they weren't. As you stated, The Revolution were much younger at the time they played with Prince, and did not have the advantage of 5+ more years of practice to polish their already great skills. So, considering that, their contributions were actually quite fantastic. Their live shows are amazing. I recently saw/listened to the footage of The Revolution's only live performance in France of IGBABN, and it was pure energy and bliss. That group had undeniable chemistry, and they were a well-oiled machine and just clicked together.

*

The NPG also had many incarnations through the 90's and 2000's. The original players were/are fantastic and very talented, but as a group they had nowhere near the live chemistry with Prince that The Revolution did. Also, the music they were preforming was very different from the style of music The Revolution were performing. Another reason it's not really feasible to compare the two bands.

*

It really comes down to the fans' personal taste with the music, and what they prefer. ATWIAD, Parade, and all of the Dream Factory/Crystal Ball music is vastly different than Gold, Emancipation, etc. It was a different era, and completely different sound.

*

Lastly, don't forget - when Prince was interviewed by Chris Rock in 1996 and asked to put together his "dream band", he stated he would have Wendy and Lisa back. smile

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Reply #17 posted 11/08/20 10:18pm

funkbabyandthe
babysitters

Should've stopped calling the band the npg after 95

Bit boring that he stuck with that for so long

Nothing new about prince after the 80s lol

On a diff note why is this post not in the main forum? These are his bands, not associated artists! Its avout the time they were playing with him, not after
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Reply #18 posted 11/11/20 11:46am

Dalia11

All The Bands That Worked/Collaberated With Prince Are Equaly Talented!
There Is No Need For Competition!

Maybe they should All Collaborate And Make Some New Music/Work on Unreleased Music in The Prince Vault!

💿💿💿💿💿💿💿💿💿💿💿💿💿💿💿💿💿💿💿💿💿💿💿💿💿💿💿💿💿💿💿💿💿💿💿💿💿💿💿💿💿💿💿💿💿💿💿💿💿💿💿💿💿💿💿💿💿💿💿💿💿💿💿💿💿💿💿💿💿💿💿💿💿💿💿💿💿💿💿

⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐🎸🎤🎸🔔
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Reply #19 posted 11/13/20 10:05am

OldFriends4Sal
e

avatar

moderator

It all depends on time, songs etc

For example I'm listening to the SOTT live show disc

.

And Let's Go Crazy is extremely watery, and there is no punch. (I was listening to the 7.7.2007 Macey's show rendition and it was the same 'watered' down feel

.

But the Revolution on the August 83, the album and the Purple Rain tour are muscled and cranked on Let's Go Crazy, they kill it

from the same SOTT live disc, When Doves Cry looses it's electricity, but on the Purple Rain tour but more directly the Parade tour it's majestic and wild

But I get the same thing with 1999, Purple Rain, Kiss etc

I would love to have heard with Prince & the Revolution did with the SOTT(Dream Factory music)

#ALBUMSSTILLMATTER
https://prince.org/msg/7/464433 9.24.2020
if you ever try the lotus position
Try it while you're being strangled
Do U understand what I'm saying?
#IDEFINEME
It’s unloving and selfish to be easily offended
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