Jill Jones:

In some ways, Prince wrote songs for others simply because he needed a challenge. “He once told me that if you ever want to write a hit song, just act as if you’re writing for five-year-olds,” says Jill Jones, who met Prince in 1980 on the Dirty Mind tour. They hit it off musically and romantically, and she went on to sing on hits like “1999,” backups for Vanity 6 and Apollonia 6, and on her own self-titled solo album, which features several Prince-penned songs. “I asked him if he really could write hits if he wanted to, and he said, ‘Yeah, I just get bored with that.'”

Jones, whose lilting “Baby, You’re a Trip” appears on Originals, remembers Prince becoming bemused with the music business in the early Eighties. Warner Bros. had given him his own imprint, Paisley Park, to develop. But at one point, he realized that he was putting too much attention on the label and that he should leverage himself as a songwriter and compose tunes for people outside of his circle.

“I think he did that to create more of a return on his investment and more revenue streams,” Jones says. “Everything was all in this one basket in a corner [with the record label]. So he started to become more business-savvy. I think some of his choices may have suffered a little, but they had to be done. Like, ‘Jill, you can’t have “Sugar Walls.” We’re going to give it to Sheena Easton because she’s going to go in competition against Madonna.’ I found that song to be such a bizarre fit for Sheena Easton. It just was never convincing to me.”

https://www.rollingstone....ew-842940/

I can see that. Sheenah Easton would have matched with a few of Jill's tracks when you think about it. Sugar Walls wouldn't have been that same big hit or got the same production though. It would have been just another song on her debut. Now the question is if there's a Jill Jones version?

I think Jill doesn't really recall the timeline of Madonna's ascent.

Sheena Easton released A Private Heaven (with "Sugar Walls") on September 7, 1984, meaning that it was likely recorded significantly earlier.

Madonna had only a couple of hits "Holiday" and "Borderline" (with "Lucky Star" on the rise) before the infamous VMAs on September 14, 1984, when she premiered "Like a Virgin."

She really didn't become a phenonemom until the Like A Virgin album was released that November.

Through most of 1984, no one really had a clue that Madonna would become such a huge star with staying power.

So no I don't think that he gave "Sugar Walls" to Sheena to pit her against Madonna's success. But by the time the song became a big hit as the album's second album in early 1985, Madonna had indeed become really big.

Maybe Prince wanted to give the song to someone who could actually make it a hit, no offense to Jill.

For SHEENA "a private heaven" was her taking a huge chance with her audience at the time, I would kind of compare it to what MARIAH did going into Butterfly and later works. Sheena was huge at this point, so it was a big gamble for her to go this direction. I dont know how SUGAR WALLS got to her, but I think she was headed this way because after all STRUT was very different for her in all ways, from what was called then a "Very sexy video" which was just her in a mini skirt, makeup, and her band, but for its time it was a gamble and groundbreaking and she had to defend herself for it too which is crazy. So i dont really know if PRINCE met SHEENA long before, or if she was already doing the "A private Heaven" record when they met, I dont know that exact timeline of her sessions for this record. I do know she wanted the change in direction however and was leaning that way, because people were focusing on her looks from day one, i think she figured go all out and challenge them.

Well, it would have been extremely interesting had he just given the song TO Madonna and had her do it. They were labelmates. Tons of reasons why it couldn't have happened like that , I know.

I always say that Jill got a raw deal.Her album came out too late.She wasn't able to take advantage of the Purple Rain hype.Imagine if her album had came out in late 1984,or early 1985,featuring a great song like "Sugar Walls" as the first single.

Wowugotit said:

Jill Jones:

In some ways, Prince wrote songs for others simply because he needed a challenge. “He once told me that if you ever want to write a hit song, just act as if you’re writing for five-year-olds,” says Jill Jones, who met Prince in 1980 on the Dirty Mind tour. They hit it off musically and romantically, and she went on to sing on hits like “1999,” backups for Vanity 6 and Apollonia 6, and on her own self-titled solo album, which features several Prince-penned songs. “I asked him if he really could write hits if he wanted to, and he said, ‘Yeah, I just get bored with that.'”

Jones, whose lilting “Baby, You’re a Trip” appears on Originals, remembers Prince becoming bemused with the music business in the early Eighties. Warner Bros. had given him his own imprint, Paisley Park, to develop. But at one point, he realized that he was putting too much attention on the label and that he should leverage himself as a songwriter and compose tunes for people outside of his circle.

“I think he did that to create more of a return on his investment and more revenue streams,” Jones says. “Everything was all in this one basket in a corner [with the record label]. So he started to become more business-savvy. I think some of his choices may have suffered a little, but they had to be done. Like, ‘Jill, you can’t have “Sugar Walls.” We’re going to give it to Sheena Easton because she’s going to go in competition against Madonna.’ I found that song to be such a bizarre fit for Sheena Easton. It just was never convincing to me.”

https://www.rollingstone....ew-842940/

I dont think Sheena was ever really in competition with Madonna since she was already HUGE by the time Madonna came out, but the mania of Madonna was not till second album, the first album was big but honestly it was two totally different types of singers. I mean Sheena I would compare more to some one like Mariah because everyone knew her for ballads, despite her first hits being uptempo, "Morning Train" and "Modern Girl" she was bigger with ballads, with Kenny Rogers "We' got tonight", "you could have been with me" "almost over you" "For your eyes only" so I dont see Madonna in that light of singer. And by 1984 or even when Sheena started work on "A Private Heaven" she was trying to ditch the goody two shoes image, and challenge her audience, "STRUT" was the first single and though it shocked it was one of her biggest hits.

positivity88 said:

I think Jill doesn't really recall the timeline of Madonna's ascent.

Sheena Easton released A Private Heaven (with "Sugar Walls") on September 7, 1984, meaning that it was likely recorded significantly earlier.

Good point. The other problem is the dates don't entirely line up for when they really started Jill's record, and songs like G spot weren't written with her in mind.

Once Vanity left, Prince had songs written for females and he found a lot of homes for them.

lastdecember said:

Wowugotit said:

Jill Jones:

In some ways, Prince wrote songs for others simply because he needed a challenge. “He once told me that if you ever want to write a hit song, just act as if you’re writing for five-year-olds,” says Jill Jones, who met Prince in 1980 on the Dirty Mind tour. They hit it off musically and romantically, and she went on to sing on hits like “1999,” backups for Vanity 6 and Apollonia 6, and on her own self-titled solo album, which features several Prince-penned songs. “I asked him if he really could write hits if he wanted to, and he said, ‘Yeah, I just get bored with that.'”

Jones, whose lilting “Baby, You’re a Trip” appears on Originals, remembers Prince becoming bemused with the music business in the early Eighties. Warner Bros. had given him his own imprint, Paisley Park, to develop. But at one point, he realized that he was putting too much attention on the label and that he should leverage himself as a songwriter and compose tunes for people outside of his circle.

“I think he did that to create more of a return on his investment and more revenue streams,” Jones says. “Everything was all in this one basket in a corner [with the record label]. So he started to become more business-savvy. I think some of his choices may have suffered a little, but they had to be done. Like, ‘Jill, you can’t have “Sugar Walls.” We’re going to give it to Sheena Easton because she’s going to go in competition against Madonna.’ I found that song to be such a bizarre fit for Sheena Easton. It just was never convincing to me.”

https://www.rollingstone....ew-842940/

I dont think Sheena was ever really in competition with Madonna since she was already HUGE by the time Madonna came out, but the mania of Madonna was not till second album, the first album was big but honestly it was two totally different types of singers. I mean Sheena I would compare more to some one like Mariah because everyone knew her for ballads, despite her first hits being uptempo, "Morning Train" and "Modern Girl" she was bigger with ballads, with Kenny Rogers "We' got tonight", "you could have been with me" "almost over you" "For your eyes only" so I dont see Madonna in that light of singer. And by 1984 or even when Sheena started work on "A Private Heaven" she was trying to ditch the goody two shoes image, and challenge her audience, "STRUT" was the first single and though it shocked it was one of her biggest hits.

I once had a (female) patient from Scotland and I asked her about Sheena Easton and Sean Connery. She said EVERYONE loved Connery, he was the nicest guy in the world, nobody had a bad word to say about him - he was universally beloved. Sheena Easton on the other hand, my God, this woman totally trashed her, said she was a "bloody cunt" and everyone in Scotland hated her guts. No idea if any of this is true, but this is what she said to me.

if Jill's album had come out in late 84 or early 85,songs like "Our Destiny",G-Spot" and "Sugar Walls" would have been perfect for her.

SoulAlive said:

if Jill's album had come out in late 84 or early 85,songs like "Our Destiny",G-Spot" and "Sugar Walls" would have been perfect for her.

Prince and his artists were already over saturating the market at that point. If Jill's role in PR was bigger than it was possibly but it was not big at all. Between the Time album and Apollonia 6 which had to be released, you also had a Vanity album out there though Prince was not involved, all her interviews and her press for the record was more about asking about him. So you had all this plus the PR movie and album and tour I just think even if Jill had all that it just would not have had any impact, it would have done better than it did in 1987 but not much, also Sheena took Sugar Walls into the top 10 but that was riding of her popularity and name and also the previous single was huge, so it hit. I dont think anyone else in Prince's camp would have taken that song to the top 10, or even top 40, possibly Apollonia 6 would have been a better project to put that on if he was going to use it for one of his artists.

lavendardrummachine said:

positivity88 said:

I think Jill doesn't really recall the timeline of Madonna's ascent.

Sheena Easton released A Private Heaven (with "Sugar Walls") on September 7, 1984, meaning that it was likely recorded significantly earlier.

Good point. The other problem is the dates don't entirely line up for when they really started Jill's record, and songs like G spot weren't written with her in mind.

Once Vanity left, Prince had songs written for females and he found a lot of homes for them.

I'd agree. "Sugar Walls" was written January 1984, she recorded her vocals 2 days later. Jill's record was a long, slow process getting it together. Even "All Day, All Night" was from middle 1984, and her record wasn't out until 1987. Her version of Princestory is often a bit... altered.

HELL YES!!!! Had Jill Jones' Solo Album been released on the heels of "Purple Rain", Her Album would"ve been a SMASH!!! ESPECIALLY w/"Sugar Walls" on it!!! But, P gave it 2 Sheena Easton (the SAME thing Jam & Lewis got FIRED for: Production OUTSIDE the Camp). And the rest is Purple History. And Jill Jones' Solo Album got released in1987 instead......

PLUS: At that time Jill, Brenda & Susannah were the BEST Singers in the Camp!!!

woogiebear said:

HELL YES!!!! Had Jill Jones' Solo Album been released on the heels of "Purple Rain", Her Album would"ve been a SMASH!!! ESPECIALLY w/"Sugar Walls" on it!!! But, P gave it 2 Sheena Easton (the SAME thing Jam & Lewis got FIRED for: Production OUTSIDE the Camp). And the rest is Purple History. And Jill Jones' Solo Album got released in1987 instead......

PLUS: At that time Jill, Brenda & Susannah were the BEST Singers in the Camp!!!

Yep...totally agree. She deserved better. I love her voice and album...if it was released in 84 with Sugar Walls as the lead single, she would've had a hit.

Poplife88 said:

Yep...totally agree. She deserved better. I love her voice and album...if it was released in 84 with Sugar Walls as the lead single, she would've had a hit.

They didn't promote the record though. Would have been the best song on her record, but would it have mattered what was on it?

Manic Monday wouldn't have been the same hit if Apples 6 got it. The Family got Nothing Compares, but they couldn't turn it into a generational massive hit song.

Jill could have done a great version of the Sheenah Easton version, but I'm not sure she would have found the hit in that song if Prince gave it to her outright it might have just sounded like My Man. There's more of a chance Sheenah Easton could have made a hit out of My Man.

[Edited 6/2/20 10:48am]

woogiebear said:

HELL YES!!!! Had Jill Jones' Solo Album been released on the heels of "Purple Rain", Her Album would"ve been a SMASH!!! ESPECIALLY w/"Sugar Walls" on it!!!

Exactly.In 1984/85,everyone in the Prince camp was enjoying hit singles.His sound was the hottest thing on the radio.There is no reason to think that "Sugar Walls' sung by Jill Jones wouldn't have made a big splash,too.It would have been a terriflc debut single for her.

SoulAlive said:

Exactly.In 1984/85,everyone in the Prince camp was enjoying hit singles.

I thought this too, but it's really just The Time, Vanity, Apples and Sheila (and Apollonia was 62 on the album charts). The first Paisley Park release was The Family and the only hit record the label had was Romance 1600. Nobody else in the camp really had hits until Pandemonium in 1990.

lavendardrummachine said:

SoulAlive said:

lavendardrummachine said:

I thought this too, but it's really just The Time, Vanity, Apples and Sheila (and Apollonia was 62 on the album charts). The first Paisley Park release was The Family and the only hit record the label had was Romance 1600. Nobody else in the camp really had hits until Pandemonium in 1990.

in 1984,Sheila E was having big success with “The Glamorous Life” single and album. The Time were having success with their ‘Ice Cream Castles’ album and its three singles. Even “Sex Shooter” became a minor hit and was popular in the clubs back then. No reason that a Jill Jones debut album would have been ignored during that time,especially with a hot lead single like “Sugar Walls”.

They all got club and soul radio play but only the big 3 were even remotely mainstream hits like Sugar Walls.

The reason a Jill Jones record would be ignored is the same reason The Family record was ignored, and that one even had the song that went on to become a massive hit without them or Prince.

Do what I did and look at the Paisley Park releases and look at the Prince side project releases an you see a pattern.

I think the song sounds like it could have been a Jill Jones song, no doubt, but doubt she would have made it a hit. Sugar Walls was a top 10 hit out charting 1999, and his other song with Sheenah Easton rivaled his biggest successes with a #2 chart success and beat out most of his biggest songs.

positivity88 said:

I think Jill doesn't really recall the timeline of Madonna's ascent.

Sheena Easton released A Private Heaven (with "Sugar Walls") on September 7, 1984, meaning that it was likely recorded significantly earlier.

Madonna had only a couple of hits "Holiday" and "Borderline" (with "Lucky Star" on the rise) before the infamous VMAs on September 14, 1984, when she premiered "Like a Virgin."

She really didn't become a phenonemom until the Like A Virgin album was released that November.

Through most of 1984, no one really had a clue that Madonna would become such a huge star with staying power.

So no I don't think that he gave "Sugar Walls" to Sheena to pit her against Madonna's success. But by the time the song became a big hit as the album's second album in early 1985, Madonna had indeed become really big.

Maybe Prince wanted to give the song to someone who could actually make it a hit, no offense to Jill.

I'll go with This.

All day.

Sugar Walls remains on rotation in my playlists to this day because of what Sheena could do with it. I don't think that would be the case with Jill.

Ottensen said:

positivity88 said:

I think Jill doesn't really recall the timeline of Madonna's ascent.

Sheena Easton released A Private Heaven (with "Sugar Walls") on September 7, 1984, meaning that it was likely recorded significantly earlier.

Madonna had only a couple of hits "Holiday" and "Borderline" (with "Lucky Star" on the rise) before the infamous VMAs on September 14, 1984, when she premiered "Like a Virgin."

She really didn't become a phenonemom until the Like A Virgin album was released that November.

Through most of 1984, no one really had a clue that Madonna would become such a huge star with staying power.

So no I don't think that he gave "Sugar Walls" to Sheena to pit her against Madonna's success. But by the time the song became a big hit as the album's second album in early 1985, Madonna had indeed become really big.

Maybe Prince wanted to give the song to someone who could actually make it a hit, no offense to Jill.

I'll go with This.

All day.

Sugar Walls remains on rotation in my playlists to this day because of what Sheena could do with it. I don't think that would be the case with Jill.

Totally agree. The bottom line is "Sugar Walls" with Sheena Easton singing is a PERFECT record. It CANNOT be improved on. Any attempt to "improve" it would only take away from its greatness. I mean, honestly, does anyone here think "U Got the Look" could have been "improved" by having Jill Jones singing on it instead of Sheena Easton?

so basically,some of y'all are saying that Prince didn't have alot of confidence in his own proteges? "it won't be a hit if Jill records it,so I'll give to Sheena instead"

SoulAlive said:

so basically,some of y'all are saying that Prince didn't have alot of confidence in his own proteges? "it won't be a hit if Jill records it,so I'll give to Sheena instead"

Ask yourself why he gave "The Glamorous Life" to Sheila E., "Manic Monday" to The Bangles, "17 Days" for himself.

Besides, y'all forgettin' Jill's album wasn't out until 1987 for whatever reason(s). Sheena was in the midst of making a new record. We know Prince used to record music and want it heard right away. Remember "Let's Rock" became "Let's Work" because WB wouldn't release it immediately. Remember The Gold Experience sat on a shelf for a year and he all but lost interest in it to some degree.

He had a thing for Sheena later on, so who knows - maybe that was the start of something. His way of flirting (much like he did with Patrice Rushen).

All this isn't to say Jill couldn't have sang the shit out of that song, but it would've have sounded as fresh as Jill's album did if it were released three years later. The aural aesthetic on "Sugar Walls" is a strong mid-80s synth vibe. Jill's album, while beautiful, has a rougher edge to it that works for her. To me, it was about timing.

Prince also knew the limitations of some of his folks, too. Look at the trouble Apollonia had with "Take Me With U." It's no wonder he pulled stronger songs from the A6 record, compared to something maybe V6 could've pulled off with no problems.

SoulAlive said:

"it won't be a hit if Jill records it,so I'll give to Sheena instead"

Isn't that what he apparently did and exactly what Jill is telling us happened?


Even if Prince deprived Jill of a hit, it would have been a Jill Jones hit, it pains me to say it but she wasn't going to be Sheenah Easton...again, it's one of his biggest hits in his entire catalog, none of the proteges ever matched it.

Was Sugar Walls a hit in the US? In the Netherlands, she was huge with the morning train (9 to 5) song, but Sugar Walls was a non-event, that never really went anywhere, even though Nasty Girl, Glamorous Life and Jungle Love were big singles.

.

Having Jill Jones release it in 84/85 would have had a better than 50/50 chance of being an actual hit, I think.

.

Can't see her doing the song though, without it becoming significantly different.

mediumdry said:

Was Sugar Walls a hit in the US? In the Netherlands, she was huge with the morning train (9 to 5) song, but Sugar Walls was a non-event, that never really went anywhere, even though Nasty Girl, Glamorous Life and Jungle Love were big singles.

.

Having Jill Jones release it in 84/85 would have had a better than 50/50 chance of being an actual hit, I think.

.

Can't see her doing the song though, without it becoming significantly different.

I was in 7th grade in NYC area when "Sugar Walls" came out. In 7th grade English class, we used to get these weekly reading supplements/handouts that we'd go over in class. Some company made them and then sent them out to schools all over the place. They covered a variety of topics/current events etc and we'd all take turns reading them out loud to the class, the point I guess was just to get us comfortable reading things at a more adult level, or reading to an audicence (our classmates) or something.

Anyway, one week in class the teacher hands out these supplements and we start taking turns reading them out loud as per usual and for some reason this particular week there was this little blurb in the reading supplement about "Sugar Walls" being a hit, or something. I mean it wasn't like these weekly reading supplements routinely discussed pop music or anything, but BAM there it was, right there on the page. Anyway so whoever's turn it was to read out loud dutifully read out loud the little paragraph about "Sugar Walls." Our English teacher was a white woman probably in her 30s who was a very buttoned up conservative type, the word and concept of "yuppie" was gaining traction in America society right around this time and that was HER to a T. I am certain she voted for Ronald Reagan. So when the kid was reading about "Sugar Walls" she turned about three shades redder than her normal color and started choking on her coffee to the point where she spit some of it back into her coffee cup and she had to get a Kleenex to wipe her chin and mouth. I vividly recall this. And no, I don't think she ever actually HEARD the song - she just heard the title being discussed in an article. So to answer your question, "Sugar Walls" was a "big enough" hit in the United States that it was being officially discussed in 7th grade grammar class weekly reader sessions - probably all over the country. Our classroom certainly wasn't the only one using those weekly reading supplements.

mediumdry said:

Was Sugar Walls a hit in the US? In the Netherlands, she was huge with the morning train (9 to 5) song, but Sugar Walls was a non-event, that never really went anywhere, even though Nasty Girl, Glamorous Life and Jungle Love were big singles.

.

Having Jill Jones release it in 84/85 would have had a better than 50/50 chance of being an actual hit, I think.

.

Can't see her doing the song though, without it becoming significantly different.

Here is how all four songs fared in the U.S.:

Song / Hot 100 peak position / Top R&B singles peak position

The Glamorous Life / 7 / 9

Jungle Love / 20 / 6

Nasty Girl / 101 / 7

Sugar Walls / 9 / 3

"Sugar Walls" outperformed the other three songs at R&B stations and retail outlets and did almost as well as "The Glamorous Life" on pop stations--which didn't connect at all with "Nasty Girl".

"Sugar Walls" was also one of 15 songs declared obscene by the U.S. Parents Music Resource Center in 1985 and led to warning labels being stamped on records with explicit content.

mediumdry said:

Was Sugar Walls a hit in the US?

It was a big hit. Also really heavy, heavy MTV airplay.

big differences then... now I understand why the song elicits such a discussion. Still waiting to hear Prince's version. Also... would have been interesting to see what it would be like with the production that Jill's album got. It really lifted a few of the songs on there, like G-Spot and especially the fairly pedestrian Mia Bocca, with the Clare Fisher orchestra it really works better. Could you imagine a clare fisher version of Sugar Walls?