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Thread started 12/23/19 5:18pm

noobman

Why exactly didn't Prince want Jimmy and Terry producing other acts?

I don't really get it. I've seen this kind of attitude in other acts... like Metallica not wanting Jason Newsted to do anything outside Metallica.

But if Jimmy and Terry were fulfilling their obligations with the Time, why did it matter to Prince what else they did?

I'm watching an interview with Morris where he also says he had producing opportunities but turned them down because Prince wouldn't like it.

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Reply #1 posted 12/23/19 5:28pm

LoveGalore

Prince didn't want to subsidize his own competition. Perhaps he felt that they were his employees so their ideas should be funneled back into the org.
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Reply #2 posted 12/23/19 9:41pm

SoulAlive

Prince was trying to build his own empire and wanted to be in control of everything.He didn’t want his “employees” working outside the camp.”He thought that we would be giving away Time secrets,but that obviously wasn’t case”,Terry Lewis said.Monte Moir recalls,”He would always tell us,”you got all these great opportunities here”,but it clearly wasn’t enough.

The unfortunate thing is....Prince could have utilized the talents of Jam and Lewis when he started Paisley Park Records.Can you imagine Jill Jones getting a hit single like “I Didn’t Mean To Turn You On”....or The Family getting an excellent hit like “Human”? It would have been a win-win for everyone.
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Reply #3 posted 12/23/19 10:18pm

noobman

LoveGalore said:

Prince didn't want to subsidize his own competition. Perhaps he felt that they were his employees so their ideas should be funneled back into the org.

Was this rational though? I mean... does the music business really work like that or was Prince just being a control freak... would Jam and Lewis producing for the SOS band take money out of Prince's pocket?

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Reply #4 posted 12/23/19 10:27pm

noobman

SoulAlive said:

Prince was trying to build his own empire and wanted to be in control of everything.He didn’t want his “employees” working outside the camp.”He thought that we would be giving away Time secrets,but that obviously wasn’t case”,Terry Lewis said.Monte Moir recalls,”He would always tell us,”you got all these great opportunities here”,but it clearly wasn’t enough. The unfortunate thing is....Prince could have utilized the talents of Jam and Lewis when he started Paisley Park Records.Can you imagine Jill Jones getting a hit single like “I Didn’t Mean To Turn You On”....or The Family getting an excellent hit like “Human”? It would have been a win-win for everyone.

Yeah, but what opportunities was he giving them? They weren't able to write their own songs... no royalties. They got credited on the albums, but ASCAP lists Prince or Prince/Morris as the writers, and that's who gets the money. They got exposure but that exposure was useless till they got away from Prince.

Feels ridiculous to me that anyone would go for a deal like that with Prince... Jam and Lewis were getting paid $300 per week.

Jesse Johnson isn't even credited on ASCAP as a writer for Jungle Love. Feels ridiculous given he did the initial demo.

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Reply #5 posted 12/26/19 9:00am

Genesia

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noobman said:

I don't really get it. I've seen this kind of attitude in other acts... like Metallica not wanting Jason Newsted to do anything outside Metallica.

But if Jimmy and Terry were fulfilling their obligations with the Time, why did it matter to Prince what else they did?

I'm watching an interview with Morris where he also says he had producing opportunities but turned them down because Prince wouldn't like it.


They weren't "fulfilling their obligations." They went off during a tour to produce someone else, got trapped by a snowstorm, and missed a gig. That is why they got fired.

We don’t mourn artists because we knew them. We mourn them because they helped us know ourselves.
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Reply #6 posted 12/26/19 11:58pm

phunkdaddy

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SoulAlive said:

Prince was trying to build his own empire and wanted to be in control of everything.He didn’t want his “employees” working outside the camp.”He thought that we would be giving away Time secrets,but that obviously wasn’t case”,Terry Lewis said.Monte Moir recalls,”He would always tell us,”you got all these great opportunities here”,but it clearly wasn’t enough.

The unfortunate thing is....Prince could have utilized the talents of Jam and Lewis when he started Paisley Park Records.Can you imagine Jill Jones getting a hit single like “I Didn’t Mean To Turn You On”....or The Family getting an excellent hit like “Human”? It would have been a win-win for everyone.


I agree. Could have been a hit making factory like LaFace records would later
become 5 years later.
Don't laugh at my funk
This funk is a serious joint
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Reply #7 posted 12/27/19 10:24am

woogiebear

I heard it said They (The Time) were getting like $125 per Week Salary. F**K doin' The Oak Tree! It was like working AT Oak Tree (The 80's Men's Fashion Sto')!!! I mean.....wht would U do in Their position????

eek eek

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Reply #8 posted 12/29/19 11:09am

funksterr

Cause you BELONG to Prince! biggrin

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Reply #9 posted 12/29/19 1:44pm

jdcxc

Prince didn’t want his hot and unique SOUND spread thin through R&B radio. Hot producers can wear out a signature sound. It didn’t take long before every producer and their momma were stealing the MPLS sound in the 80’s.
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Reply #10 posted 12/29/19 2:05pm

SoulAlive

phunkdaddy said:

SoulAlive said:
Prince was trying to build his own empire and wanted to be in control of everything.He didn’t want his “employees” working outside the camp.”He thought that we would be giving away Time secrets,but that obviously wasn’t case”,Terry Lewis said.Monte Moir recalls,”He would always tell us,”you got all these great opportunities here”,but it clearly wasn’t enough. The unfortunate thing is....Prince could have utilized the talents of Jam and Lewis when he started Paisley Park Records.Can you imagine Jill Jones getting a hit single like “I Didn’t Mean To Turn You On”....or The Family getting an excellent hit like “Human”? It would have been a win-win for everyone.
I agree. Could have been a hit making factory like LaFace records would later become 5 years later.

nod

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Reply #11 posted 12/29/19 2:14pm

SoulAlive

jdcxc said:

Prince didn’t want his hot and unique SOUND spread thin through R&B radio. Hot producers can wear out a signature sound. It didn’t take long before every producer and their momma were stealing the MPLS sound in the 80’s.

There's a fuuny story about Prince hearing "Keep On Loving Me" by the Whispers and (wrongly) assuming that Jam and Kewis produced it biggrin he thought they were giving his sound away,lol

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Reply #12 posted 12/30/19 6:03am

BartVanHemelen

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jdcxc said:

Prince didn’t want his hot and unique SOUND spread thin through R&B radio. Hot producers can wear out a signature sound. It didn’t take long before every producer and their momma were stealing the MPLS sound in the 80’s.

.

And yet Jam & Lewis managed to score a massive amount of hits and held several records in that regard.

.

https://en.wikipedia.org/...wis#Awards

.

Since forming their music company Flyte Tyme in 1982, Jam & Lewis have earned more than 100 gold, platinum, multi-platinum and diamond albums for their work with such artists as Janet Jackson, Michael Jackson, Boyz II Men, Usher, Mary J. Blige, Mariah Carey, Luther Vandross, Yolanda Adams, Herb Alpert, New Edition, Human League, George Michael, Earth, Wind and Fire, TLC, Robert Palmer, Gwen Stefani and Kanye West. They have more than 100 ASCAP songwriting and publishing awards, including several Songwriter of the Year awards.

.

https://www.umusicpub.com...Lewis.aspx

.

an amazing catalog of hit records has already made them the most successful production duo in contemporary music history.

.

© Bart Van Hemelen
This posting is provided AS IS with no warranties, and confers no rights.
It is not authorized by Prince or the NPG Music Club. You assume all risk for
your use. All rights reserved.
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Reply #13 posted 12/31/19 10:13am

jdcxc

BartVanHemelen said:



jdcxc said:


Prince didn’t want his hot and unique SOUND spread thin through R&B radio. Hot producers can wear out a signature sound. It didn’t take long before every producer and their momma were stealing the MPLS sound in the 80’s.

.


And yet Jam & Lewis managed to score a massive amount of hits and held several records in that regard.


.


https://en.wikipedia.org/...wis#Awards


.



Since forming their music company Flyte Tyme in 1982, Jam & Lewis have earned more than 100 gold, platinum, multi-platinum and diamond albums for their work with such artists as Janet Jackson, Michael Jackson, Boyz II Men, Usher, Mary J. Blige, Mariah Carey, Luther Vandross, Yolanda Adams, Herb Alpert, New Edition, Human League, George Michael, Earth, Wind and Fire, TLC, Robert Palmer, Gwen Stefani and Kanye West. They have more than 100 ASCAP songwriting and publishing awards, including several Songwriter of the Year awards.



.


https://www.umusicpub.com...Lewis.aspx


.



an amazing catalog of hit records has already made them the most successful production duo in contemporary music history.



.



Yes, he could only hold back the inevitable for so long. The entire MPLS sound soon took over Pop and R&B radio after he fired Jam/Lewis. Copycat production is the name of the game in Pop.
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Reply #14 posted 12/31/19 11:58am

Germanegro

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My impression of the situation, as Prince was using all of his associates and bandmates to project and flesh-out Prince's own ideas, is that those 2, who did well enough on their own afterwards, the talented duo that they are, were distracting from that--producing on the side while being active within Prince's camp. Prince couldn't really rely on Jam and Lewis to stay beneath his wing for too long with that kind of action happening--I mean, if anyone knows what kind of focus it takes, it was him--so he cut to the chase & kicked them out of the camp. Too bad that it pissed off Morris Day--it messed up his own band experience--but he knew what time it was too, I think, after all was done. At this point maybe we should accept the notion that P. R. Nelson had too much creative juice of his own (whether or not u like the taste drink ) to allow a lot of extra space for others' creativity within his establishment.

>

You could probably say that "in the end he could have let them; would 'a hurt nothing," but really?

wink

noobman said:

I don't really get it. I've seen this kind of attitude in other acts... like Metallica not wanting Jason Newsted to do anything outside Metallica.

But if Jimmy and Terry were fulfilling their obligations with the Time, why did it matter to Prince what else they did?

I'm watching an interview with Morris where he also says he had producing opportunities but turned them down because Prince wouldn't like it.

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