Decided to start a thread with a slightly different angle on P's intimate relationships with women.
Instead of which woman was most important to him & it being some sort of bizarre, patriarchal fest of which woman was #1, how about we talk about how each positively influenced & inspired him?
I'll start with Denise who positively influenced & inspired him to create Purple Rain and if not for Purple Rain a great many of us would have never been so inspired by him.
Next?

ETA - I decided to break it down into 3 eras, this thread is for the years 1978-1990. If you wish to discuss people from either 1991-2000 or 2001-2016 please post in those threads.
I also would love it if we could discuss males who influenced him as well - the more the merrier!!

I have a soft spot for Jill Jones. I think not only had a great voice but had a sexy presence on such videos as Automatic and 1999 (to name 2).

She was one of the first women to perform with Prince and was talented. I think she may feel over-looked.

PeggyO said:

Yes she was very talented & generally doesn't seem to get the kudos she deserves. I think she was overlooked a lot at times.
I also think she was someone who told him the truth, which is a definite positive influence on him though I think he didn't like that a lot either. It seems he had issues with his girlfriends agreeing with him & often would cut people off if they disagreed which is not a healthy way to live. Unfortunately, I think ties attitude coupled with the isolation of fame was a factor in his death.

I like this idea. I’ll add my comments later. But let’s please be gentle with one another. He would want that, right? We all collectively love and miss Prince.

PeggyO said:

I have a soft spot for Jill Jones. I think not only had a great voice but had a sexy presence on such videos as Automatic and 1999 (to name 2).

She was one of the first women to perform with Prince and was talented. I think she may feel over-looked.

Gayle Chapman, then Lisa Coleman were the first (not sexual)-well the story still abounds of Prince & Lisa when she first came to Minni. Gayles performances on stage with Prince during the Prince touring and Fire It Up openings were very saucy.

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Her feeling overlooked had more to do with her choice to avoid being associated with Prince for a long time. She even talked about bartending, and someone asked if she was Jill Jones from Purple Rain and she started speaking French and pretending she was not. As well as no connection with Prince after 1990 until Denise's funeral. I remember her talking about some kind of agreement of sorts that she had with Prince where crediting was concerne...

.

Prince was able to explore racial fluidity with Jill Jones(as well as a few others) but that being a large part of is expression. I believe it helped him to be able to move through his musical expressions racially and gender more easily. Prince obviously felt a cool contrasts connection with her and was able to think things through with her. She was an innocently worldly lady.

Morgaine said:

Decided to start a thread with a slightly different angle on P's intimate relationships with women. Instead of which woman was most important to him & it being some sort of bizarre, patriarchal fest of which woman was #1, how about we talk about how each positively influenced & inspired him? I'll start with Denise who positively influenced & inspired him to create Purple Rain and if not for Purple Rain a great many of us would have never been so inspired by him. Next?

Yes she did, but the idea of Purple Rain started before he met Vanity as well. The 2nd Coming movie(the Hookers) morphed into Purple Rain. We should give a full expression of the inspiration for Purple Rain which was everyone in the camp actually. The 1999 tour with Prince & the noituloveR, The Time and Vanity 6 and they dynamics were pulled together by Al Magnoli after looking at what the 2nd Coming was and the direction Prince was thinking of. But Purple Rain was going to happen no matter what. I wish Prince would have amped up the $ for her for Purple Rain though

.

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But yes the energy of his tumultuous relationship with the muse Denise Matthews helped fuel a lot of Purple Rain. Her mixed heritage and gender expression Prince definately absorbed. Reading the lyrics to Vagina, Prince may have picked up her energy as male and female, and maybe fueled him to play more with that symbolism. The lyrics to the song are a bit weird for me, who tends to like the weird from Prince.

Can we include everyone outside of 'love relationships/females'? because a lot of songs were influenced and inspired by male friends/bandmembers/proteges, WB associates, family, employees too. I think these groups especially the men are always overlooked

OldFriends4Sale said:

Can we include everyone outside of 'love relationships/females'? because a lot of songs were influenced and inspired by male friends/bandmembers/proteges, WB associates, family, employees too. I think these groups especially the men are always overlooked

Yes, yes, please talk about male inspirations!

OldFriends4Sale said:

Yes, I wish she had been in movie, too. I also agree that the influences & inspiration for PR was much more than Denise & that those around at the time also inspired P a great deal.

OldFriends4Sale said:

Of course! A great idea!!!

Morgaine said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Yes she did, but the idea of Purple Rain started before he met Vanity as well. The 2nd Coming movie(the Hookers) morphed into Purple Rain. We should give a full expression of the inspiration for Purple Rain which was everyone in the camp actually. The 1999 tour with Prince & the noituloveR, The Time and Vanity 6 and they dynamics were pulled together by Al Magnoli after looking at what the 2nd Coming was and the direction Prince was thinking of. But Purple Rain was going to happen no matter what. I wish Prince would have amped up the $ for her for Purple Rain though

.

.

But yes the energy of his tumultuous relationship with the muse Denise Matthews helped fuel a lot of Purple Rain. Her mixed heritage and gender expression Prince definately absorbed. Reading the lyrics to Vagina, Prince may have picked up her energy as male and female, and maybe fueled him to play more with that symbolism. The lyrics to the song are a bit weird for me, who tends to like the weird from Prince.

The words to Vagina struck me as well. Don't wish to derail but this song may need it's own thread.

PeggyO said:

Prince seemed to look for mirror images of himself in women and use that inspiration to influence not only the music but also clothing, behavior, etc.

I always felt Morris Day was the inspiration for the Dream Factory outtake Movie Star

Morgaine said:

PeggyO said:

The words to Vagina struck me as well. Don't wish to derail but this song may need it's own thread.

Prince seemed to look for mirror images of himself in women and use that inspiration to influence not only the music but also clothing, behavior, etc.

That's something that struck me, too, throughout the years...

OldFriends4Sale said:

I always felt Morris Day was the inspiration for the Dream Factory outtake Movie Star

I mean, that is a pretty common observation given it is in the Crystal Ball liner notes.

[Edited 10/17/19 14:07pm]

LoveGalore said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

I always felt Morris Day was the inspiration for the Dream Factory outtake Movie Star

I mean, that is a pretty common observation given it is in the Crystal Ball liner notes.

[Edited 10/17/19 14:07pm]

I never owned the Crystal Ball

OldFriends4Sale said:

I think Mutiny and Old Friends For Sale was directed at Morris, Jesse and the others who left the camp after PR.
*
I think Dream Factory was more specifically about St Paul Peterson. The song was written as if Paul were speaking - "A man came up to me and told me I was a saint..." Prince also chanted the chorus of this song while singing Mutiny and specifically calling out Paul - "Paul Peterson, you out there? You took, did you give? All while Jerome and crew are chating "St Paul Punk of the month!!!"
*
Prince's liner notes could easily have been referring to Paul. He did not speak to him for years. Prince and Morris were off and on with their friendship. I think his inclusion of Cloreen Bacon Skin on the CB album and his very long story about him and Morris jammming on that together signified his friendship with Morris.
[Edited 10/18/19 14:29pm]

purplethunder3121 said:

I think he was with many women who did not physically "mirror" him though. That idea seems to have grown from Vanity's comment back in the 80's that she was the female version of him, and that he wanted her face. I believe she stated that during one of her Playboy video interviews. This would make sense, as Prince created Vanity 6 in that way - she and the group represented his female persona.

OldFriends4Sale said:

I always felt Morris Day was the inspiration for the Dream Factory outtake Movie Star

I thought that too, but after listening again to the song a few times, I think this song was written from Prince's perspective on his own life - not Morris's persona. The song was recorded March of '86, so Morris had been long gone by then. Prince had just finished UTCM as well.

*

The lyrics seems to connect with Prince's persona:

*

*

Seems this is Prince literally describing a "day in the life" - or in this case - "night in the life" of being Prince.

Well Prince did put on the Crystal Ball credits (inspired by Morris Day)

Prince never stopped thinking about*and discussing in interviews) Morris Day and the Time. Even in 1986 the A Love Bizzarre live video he made sure to 'Chop' Morris Days Oak Tree.

writing a song for Jesse Johnson (Shockadelica) in 1987

Truth is Prince continued to play with the Morris Day inspiration in 1990 at least.

1986 Christopher Tracy and Trick was inspired by Morris Day(and Jerome) from Purple Rain

I think he had Gregory playing a lower graded Morris Day during the SOTT period. Morris was sometimes time the 'energy of the other man' during the 1982-1984 period. And Gregory took on that energy for SOTT. Even during the BET interview with Donnie where Cat and Gregory pretended to be an item of sorts.

violetcrush said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

I always felt Morris Day was the inspiration for the Dream Factory outtake Movie Star

I thought that too, but after listening again to the song a few times, I think this song was written from Prince's perspective on his own life - not Morris's persona. The song was recorded March of '86, so Morris had been long gone by then. Prince had just finished UTCM as well.

*

The lyrics seems to connect with Prince's persona:

*

Tonight, hey, I'm a movie star
I see myself on a silver screen, huh
Tonight, it don't matter who you are
I'm the only star on the scene
You know what I mean?

Man, I hate makin' movies
But I like that money, think I don't? Hmph

*

Mix was right
On the one, the kick drum hit the triple beat
Baby, I was poppin'
Did one spin, did a second, did the splits
Came up, looked around, the joint was hoppin'
Hoppin'! The joint was hoppin'!
Somebody say "Movie Star!"

*

Ooh, the mix, it's about the mix
Ooh baby, I like that, but the kid gonna show you a few tricks
Can I play with you?

*

Seems this is Prince literally describing a "day in the life" - or in this case - "night in the life" of being Prince.

Old Friends 4 Sale 1985

Morris Day Vanity Wendy Melvoin

OldFriends4Sale said:

I get Morris and Vanity, but how does Wendy fit into the song? Or are you listing her as someone who inspired his music?
*
I think that song was also for Jesse, Jimmy and Terry, and some other MN folks who were talking to the media about Prince's life in MN at that time.
[Edited 10/19/19 15:24pm]

violetcrush said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Old Friends 4 Sale 1985

Morris Day Vanity Wendy Melvoin

I get Morris and Vanity, but how does Wendy fit into the song? Or are you listing her as someone who inspired his music? * I think that song was also for Jesse, Jimmy and Terry, and some other MN folks who were talking to the media about Prince's life in MN at that time. [Edited 10/19/19 15:24pm]

Wendy an inspiration and inspiration of part of the song

Wendy Melvoin

When another musician U hire

Little do they know U wouldn't have passed go

Unless they could take U higher

.

Oh I forgot, Big Chick, not Jesse/Jimmy & Terry(people thought the 2 friends lost in the snow was Jimmy & Terry in connection to them missing a flight to the show)

The sun, the sun set n my mind this evenin'

4 someone who said they would die 4 me

Sold some, they sold some old pictures and all my little memories

Morris Day and Vanity

The sun set n my heart this afternoon

4 2 friends of mine got stuck n the snow

N Uptown when winter's alarmin', oh

Cocaine becomes charmin'

Instead of guessing who we think Prince's biggest inspirations were btw '78-'90 we could just go by what he stated in his acceptance speech at the 1995 AMAs - after he had stopped going by Prince:
*
"In addition to the AMAs I'd like to quickly thank a few people whose inspiration attributed greatly to Prince's success. This list includes but is not limited to:
*
Wendy and Susannah Melvoin
Lisa Coleman
Dr Fink
Andre Cymone
Bobby Z
Brown Mark
Dez Dickerson
Eric Leeds
Cat Glover
Sheila E and everyone in LoveSexy band
Also:
*
Muhammed Ali
Dr Martin Luther King
James Brown
Carlos Santana
Joni Mitchell
Sly Stone
Jimi Hendrix and
Miles Davis
*
Forever the musicians and all the members of the NPG.
*
Time does not permit me to name everyone but I tried. Without their inspiration there wouldn't be a reason for me to be here tonight to accept this award."
[Edited 10/19/19 16:14pm]

OldFriends4Sale said:

Interesting. I never connected that lyric with Prince talking about Wendy being an inspiration. I always thought it was Prince saying without him they would not have been successful. I will have to look at that again

violetcrush said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Wendy an inspiration and inspiration of part of the song

Wendy Melvoin

When another musician U hire

Little do they know U wouldn't have passed go

Unless they could take U higher

.

Oh I forgot, Big Chick, not Jesse/Jimmy & Terry(people thought the 2 friends lost in the snow was Jimmy & Terry in connection to them missing a flight to the show)

The sun, the sun set n my mind this evenin'

4 someone who said they would die 4 me

Sold some, they sold some old pictures and all my little memories

Morris Day and Vanity

The sun set n my heart this afternoon

4 2 friends of mine got stuck n the snow

N Uptown when winter's alarmin', oh

Cocaine becomes charmin'

Interesting. I never connected that lyric with Prince talking about Wendy being an inspiration. I always thought it was Prince saying without him they would not have been successful. I will have to look at that again

yeah it was a reaction to Dez leaving and filling the spot with a female guitarist

.

Big Chick sold some stories etc to tabloids, that's why he was no longer working for Prince mid 85. He also had a bit of coke issues.

OldFriends4Sale said:

Yes, I remember the Big Chick situation. Very sad. Nice that Prince held a benefit to cover his funeral expenses and bills after he passed in 1990.

@OF4S: There was a typed list that Prince had done in his later years, and Paul Peterson had posted it on Susannah's FB timeline - can't remember whether it was her personal or professional page. It was 3 columns of people/musicians who had inspired him throughout his life. I looked, but can't find that post. I think it was not long after Prince passed - sometime in 2016 or 2017. I bet you could find it!! If so, please post it.

*

Paul's comment was funny - I remember he said, "look Susannah, we made the list!" or something close to that

OldFriends4Sale said:

Wait, what? Are you aware that Jimmy Jam and Terry are the ones who literally got stuck in the snow? That line is 100% about them.

Further, there's just no way he would've referred to Wendy that way either. He hired many, many musicians by then - not a chance in hell he would refer to the lead guitarist in his band with that kind of flippant disregard.

The cocaine line is still about Big Chick who had a serious addiction at the time which is WHY he sold the story.
[Edited 10/19/19 18:21pm]

That line of snow is about cocaine as the stansa ends off, the connection to Uptown etc

the snow storm Jimmy & Terry got stuck in wasn't 'Uptown'

What was flippant about that line?

Yes it was about Wendy joining his band. People would not be knowledgable about other musicians in the same way they would be about Prince's band. Prince wouldn't have hired her if he didn't think she could take him higher. That isn't a diss of Dez.

And in 1985(nor 1984) was Dez Prince's lead guitarist. The song was written in 1985(Lisa and Wendy also worked on the song) talked about in a 1985 interview.

And in Extrelovable he did say 'Dez don't you like my band'<-that was a flippant line. because Dez was leaving and did not want to sing dirty song anymore.

LoveGalore said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Wendy an inspiration and inspiration of part of the song

Wendy Melvoin

When another musician U hire

Little do they know U wouldn't have passed go

Unless they could take U higher

.

Oh I forgot, Big Chick, not Jesse/Jimmy & Terry(people thought the 2 friends lost in the snow was Jimmy & Terry in connection to them missing a flight to the show)

The sun, the sun set n my mind this evenin'

4 someone who said they would die 4 me

Sold some, they sold some old pictures and all my little memories

Morris Day and Vanity

The sun set n my heart this afternoon

4 2 friends of mine got stuck n the snow

N Uptown when winter's alarmin', oh

Cocaine becomes charmin'

Wait, what? Are you aware that Jimmy Jam and Terry are the ones who literally got stuck in the snow? That line is 100% about them. Further, there's just no way he would've referred to Wendy that way either. He hired many, many musicians by then - not a chance in hell he would refer to the lead guitarist in his band with that kind of flippant disregard. The cocaine line is still about Big Chick who had a serious addiction at the time which is WHY he sold the story. [Edited 10/19/19 18:21pm]