MoodyBlumes said:

You stated Prince was hurt when Vanity left the film. Where was that written? You are making an assumption as to his feelings. He may have just been angry about it. It was written that when Apollonia first came to MN he purposely took her to a club where he knew Vanity would be to flaunt her as the new lead in the film. It was stated that Vanity was surprised because she did not think he could find a good replacement for her.
*
Based on all of the Biographies and recent in depth interviews it has become pretty clear how Prince behaved in a relationship - controlling, manipulative, jealous, unfaithful with some humor and sex mixed in. I think Susannah described it the best.
*
With the exception of FIML (where he admits to being unfaithful) and maybe one or two others, Prince was the victim in his love songs.

violetcrush said:

I actually didn't state that Prince was hurt, I said it seems reasonable. How did Prince's partners behave in relationship, or was all fault with him? If the claim is that all fault was with him, then it is his partners who are playing the victim.

MoodyBlumes said:

violetcrush said:

You stated Prince was hurt when Vanity left the film. Where was that written? You are making an assumption as to his feelings. He may have just been angry about it. It was written that when Apollonia first came to MN he purposely took her to a club where he knew Vanity would be to flaunt her as the new lead in the film. It was stated that Vanity was surprised because she did not think he could find a good replacement for her. * Based on all of the Biographies and recent in depth interviews it has become pretty clear how Prince behaved in a relationship - controlling, manipulative, jealous, unfaithful with some humor and sex mixed in. I think Susannah described it the best. * With the exception of FIML (where he admits to being unfaithful) and maybe one or two others, Prince was the victim in his love songs.

I actually didn't state that Prince was hurt, I said it seems reasonable. How did Prince's partners behave in relationship, or was all fault with him? If the claim is that all fault was with him, then it is his partners who are playing the victim.

Wow, there is some serious "gaslighting" going on here with your posts.

*

MoodyBlumes said: "Seems reasonable to assume Prince was hurt when Vanity left him."

*

^^^You do realize that you are still stating your opnion, or assumption - as you put it, that Prince would have been hurt that Vanity left the film??

*

Okay, so if we are using your lingo above then I would say it seems reasonable that Prince would have been frustrated with not being able to have Susannah when he wanted her.

*

Also, you stated this with regard to connecting Prince's songs with women:

*

MoodyBlumes said: "I'm going with Prince's words on that song and choose not to invade his psyche regarding his other tunes." You wrote this on the same post where you stated that the song Purple Rain was about Prince and Vanity's relationship. Where did Prince state this?? I don't recall reading that anywhere.

violetcrush said:

There is no gaslighting whatsoever. The film Purple Rain was pretty straight forward, can't help if it isn't clear to you. And once again, Vanity was to co-star in the film, she was a major part of the storyline.

Another of your "bait and switch" comments about the Purple Rain film:

*

MoodyBlumes said: "Purple Rain, the film... was about Prince, his relationships with Vanity (who abandoned the project and left Prince), the Time, his parents, also his rising star. She obviously meant something to him, or he wouldn't have made a film about her"

*

AGAIN, the film was NOT jsut about Vanity and he didn't make it for her. Vanity was a character in the film along with Jill, Susan, Morris, Jerome, The Revolution, The Time, etc.

*

And if you want to take it a step further - Denise's/Vanity's entire persona was created by Prince. He wanted her to portray sex. She said numerous times she hated what she had to do in that role. However, she did not have a choice. If she did not abide by Prince's decisions she would have been out.

MoodyBlumes said:

violetcrush said:

Wow, there is some serious "gaslighting" going on here with your posts.

*

MoodyBlumes said: "Seems reasonable to assume Prince was hurt when Vanity left him."

*

^^^You do realize that you are still stating your opnion, or assumption - as you put it, that Prince would have been hurt that Vanity left the film??

*

Okay, so if we are using your lingo above then I would say it seems reasonable that Prince would have been frustrated with not being able to have Susannah when he wanted her.

*

Also, you stated this with regard to connecting Prince's songs with women:

*

MoodyBlumes said: "I'm going with Prince's words on that song and choose not to invade his psyche regarding his other tunes." You wrote this on the same post where you stated that the song Purple Rain was about Prince and Vanity's relationship. Where did Prince state this?? I don't recall reading that anywhere.

There is no gaslighting whatsoever. The film Purple Rain was pretty straight forward, can't help if it isn't clear to you. And once again, Vanity was to co-star in the film, she was a major part of the storyline.

You actually ARE seriously gaslighting, because you completely ignored my paste of your post stating how Prince felt after Vanity left. Doesn't matter whether you say "it is reasonable toassume" or "I think" - they are interchangable statements.

*

But Vanity DID NOT costar in the film, and several parts were edited to fit with Apollonia's character and style. Vanity's role was going to be dark and more sexual.

*

You are stating that Vanity was a "major part of the storyline" for a film in which she did not appear. Okay, sure. I get that she was originally going to star in the film. However, she did not, and things were changed when Apollonia came on board. It then became HER film.

violetcrush said:

Vanity was meant to co-star in the film, in other words have the leading role. Her role was as Prince's lover, part role, part truth. And Prince addresses this in the Ebony article regarding tbo.

violetcrush said:

MoodyBlumes said:

What question would you like to ask me? I didn't claim Prince rarely admitted fault or was always playing a victim role in relationships. Did the folks in these bios share about their own faults, and how they contributed to relational issues?

[Edited 9/8/19 14:21pm]

You stated Prince was hurt when Vanity left the film. Where was that written? You are making an assumption as to his feelings. He may have just been angry about it. It was written that when Apollonia first came to MN he purposely took her to a club where he knew Vanity would be to flaunt her as the new lead in the film. It was stated that Vanity was surprised because she did not think he could find a good replacement for her. * Based on all of the Biographies and recent in depth interviews it has become pretty clear how Prince behaved in a relationship - controlling, manipulative, jealous, unfaithful with some humor and sex mixed in. I think Susannah described it the best. * With the exception of FIML (where he admits to being unfaithful) and maybe one or two others, Prince was the victim in his love songs.

.

Since those biographies mean so damn much to u. Here ya go.

.

[Edited 9/8/19 15:32pm]

MoodyBlumes said:

violetcrush said:

Another of your "bait and switch" comments about the Purple Rain film:

*

MoodyBlumes said: "Purple Rain, the film... was about Prince, his relationships with Vanity (who abandoned the project and left Prince), the Time, his parents, also his rising star. She obviously meant something to him, or he wouldn't have made a film about her"

*

AGAIN, the film was NOT jsut about Vanity and he didn't make it for her. Vanity was a character in the film along with Jill, Susan, Morris, Jerome, The Revolution, The Time, etc.

*

And if you want to take it a step further - Denise's/Vanity's entire persona was created by Prince. He wanted her to portray sex. She said numerous times she hated what she had to do in that role. However, she did not have a choice. If she did not abide by Prince's decisions she would have been out.

Vanity was meant to co-star in the film, in other words have the leading role. Her role was as Prince's lover, part role, part truth. And Prince addresses this in the Ebony article regarding tbo.

The only thing Prince addressed with regard to Vanity and the film the lyrics to TBO was this:

*

“The beautiful ones you always seem to lose,” Vanity had just quit the movie."

*

He is NOT descirbing her role in the film or discussing anything about the script as it related to her. Now who's making assumptions??

*

Okay, I"m ready for the next "gaslight" post

violetcrush said:

He doesn't need to address her role in the film because even the most casual Prince fan knows she was supposed to be the leading lady.

MoodyBlumes said:

Wow, you are REALLY reaching now!! And no, fans that were born in the 90’s and 2000’s would not know anything about the backstory of PR unless they took the time to read the Biographies. So please stop.

icecreamcastle777 said:

Okay great. But it is MoodyBlumes stating that comments/opinions of those in the camp should not be considered.
*
So, if we are now accepting comments/statements of those in Prince’s inner circle then we must also include the MANY statements about Prince’s relationship with Susannah - including the extensive information about the TBO in Duane Tudahl’s book.
*
Can’t be selective with the statements.

violetcrush said:

Actually we can be selective. And Denise's role in the Purple Rain story is not easily dismissed.

violetcrush said:

icecreamcastle777 said:

.

Since those biographies mean so damn much to u. Here ya go.

.

“I think that Prince and Vanity were a lot alike,” remembers Peggy McCreary. “She was a female Prince. I think he was hurt when they broke up.” ~Prince And The Purple Rain Studio Sessions Kindle version pg 2963

[Edited 9/8/19 15:32pm]

Okay great. But it is MoodyBlumes stating that comments/opinions of those in the camp should not be considered. * So, if we are now accepting comments/statements of those in Prince’s inner circle then we must also include the MANY statements about Prince’s relationship with Susannah - including the extensive information about the TBO in Duane Tudahl’s book. * Can’t be selective with the statements.

You're the one who thinks these book are the know all and say all on Prince. You said he wasn't hurt by Vanity leaving and asked where it was written, so I showed u. How was I supposed to know it was only a desperate set up for someone to agree with u that TBO was about Susannah?

[Edited 9/8/19 15:53pm]

icecreamcastle777 said:

No, you are misunderstanding the debate with MoodyBlumes, who stated she will only go by Prince’s own statements and not anyone in his inner circle, which is ridiculous because many of these people spent 24/7 with him and would hear and see things while with Prince. Actually it was MoodyBlumes who stated “it is reasonable to assume that Prince was hurt when Vanity left.” She was going by her own assumption and not the comment by Peggy M. However, her assumption contradicts what she posted earlier which is that she is not going to attempt to get into Prince’s psyche about his songs or relationships - even though her comments were doing just that.
*
Stuck on the gaslighting hamster wheel and can’t get off
*
And if you don’t think the associate’s comments in the Biographies are relevant or accurate then why would you post a quote from Peggy M - regardless of what I think??
[Edited 9/8/19 16:13pm]

violetcrush said:

icecreamcastle777 said:

You're the one who thinks these book are the know all and say all on Prince. You said he wasn't hurt by Vanity leaving and asked where it was written, so I showed u. How was I supposed to know it was only a desperate set up for someone to agree with u that TBO was about Susannah?

[Edited 9/8/19 15:53pm]

No, you are misunderstanding the debate with MoodyBlumes, who stated she will only go by Prince’s own statements and not anyone in his inner circle, which is ridiculous because many of these people spent 24/7 with him and would hear and see things while with Prince. Actually it was MoodyBlumes who stated “it is reasonable to assume that Prince was hurt when Vanity left.” She was going by her own assumption and not the comment by Peggy M. However, her assumption contradicts what she posted earlier which is that she is not going to attempt to get into Prince’s psyche about his songs or relationships - even though her comments were doing just that. * Stuck on the gaslighting hamster wheel and can’t get off * And if you don’t think the associate’s comments in the Biographies are relevant or accurate then why would you post a quote from Peggy M - regardless of what I think?? [Edited 9/8/19 16:13pm]

I am looking forward to Prince's own words coming out soon, 'The Beautiful Ones'.

https://www.newyorker.com...-of-prince

The same force seemed to be moving him during this performance. “I’m new to this playing alone,” he said toward the end of the show. “I thank you all for being patient. I’m trying to stay focussed. It’s a little heavy for me tonight.” He paused before beginning the next song, “The Beautiful Ones.” “She knows about this one,” he said.

MoodyBlumes said:

You are again conveniently leaving out key details of that article, one of which which is that it was “business as usual” for Prince right after the Feb 16th show, as he was described as being upbeat and excited to discuss what he had already written for his book.
*
I wouldn’t get too exited about Prince’s contributions, as it seems he did not get very far.

violetcrush said:

MoodyBlumes said:

I am looking forward to Prince's own words coming out soon, 'The Beautiful Ones'.

https://www.newyorker.com...-of-prince

The same force seemed to be moving him during this performance. “I’m new to this playing alone,” he said toward the end of the show. “I thank you all for being patient. I’m trying to stay focussed. It’s a little heavy for me tonight.” He paused before beginning the next song, “The Beautiful Ones.” “She knows about this one,” he said.

You are again conveniently leaving out key details of that article, one of which which is that it was “business as usual” for Prince right after the Feb 16th show, as he was described as being upbeat and excited to discuss what he had already written for his book. * I wouldn’t get too exited about Prince’s contributions, as it seems he did not get very far.

The article is great, and I am definitely excited. I have even enjoyed reading Prince's letters, notes... refreshing to hear from the man himself.

MoodyBlumes said:

I Agree. It shows how focused he was with getting the book done. However, if he started chronologically then there may not be much from him past his childhood. Hopefully, there are notes and pictures from later years that he passed on. Once PR exploded he was more careful about personal pictures and letters though.

violetcrush said:

MoodyBlumes said:

The article is great, and I am definitely excited. I have even enjoyed reading Prince's letters, notes... refreshing to hear from the man himself.

I Agree. It shows how focused he was with getting the book done. However, if he started chronologically then there may not be much from him past his childhood. Hopefully, there are notes and pictures from later years that he passed on. Once PR exploded he was more careful about personal pictures and letters though.

I will take it all... reading notes in his own hand that have come available has been touching. I'd love to hear about his childhood, his mom, just anything really coming from him.

MoodyBlumes said:

violetcrush said:

MoodyBlumes said: I Agree. It shows how focused he was with getting the book done. However, if he started chronologically then there may not be much from him past his childhood. Hopefully, there are notes and pictures from later years that he passed on. Once PR exploded he was more careful about personal pictures and letters though.

I will take it all... reading notes in his own hand that have come available has been touching. I'd love to hear about his childhood, his mom, just anything really coming from him. He doesn't owe fans this information, so a privilege really.

[Edited 9/8/19 16:47pm]

MoodyBlumes said:

Yes, he was ready to share with the fans. Only wish he had started sooner. Could be the very positive reaction and reviews he got from the first two PP P&M shows
may have triggered his inspiration to do the book. He called the publishers one week after those shows. Interesting that one of his ideas was just to write about his Mother and his relationship with her.

violetcrush said:

MoodyBlumes said:

May have triggered

[Edited 9/8/19 16:47pm]

Yes, he was ready to share with the fans. Only wish he had started sooner. Could be the very positive reaction and reviews he got from the first two PP P&M shows may have triggered his inspiration to do the book. He called the publishers one week after those shows. Interesting that one of his ideas was just to write about his Mother and his relationship with her.

Yes, those concerts were very moving. It would be great to learn more about his mom, a jazz singer who got her master's degree in social work, working in the Minnesota school system. Prince needed his privacy, so I respected that. I can imagine how difficult it must be for some in the public eye... I would find it very challenging.

MoodyBlumes said:

Seems he had a complex relationship with his Mother - possibly not feeling loved by her, especially after she re-married. She was also a twin. Her Sister likes to play Basketball. I think I had read somewhere that she and Prince used to play when he was little.

violetcrush said:

Seems he had a lot to share, about his experiences with racism in Minneapolis, being bussed to a predominantly white school, the long lasting impact on him, his experiences with epilepsy, his dad. Will be a great read.