violetcrush said:

luvgirl said:

Nothing you provided here proves that Prince started pursuing Susannah as soon as Dec 82 or Jan of 83. All this is your speculations... But, I can provide you with the link to where Susannah said herself that she met him at the Christmas party right out of high school in Dec 82 and... "MONTHS later he was knocking at her door" I can also provide the link where she said he started pursuing her at Dez Dickerson's birthday party which I already showed you in my last post was confirmed by her sister's Wendy's comment that it was indeed when Prince first started to pursue her. I can also provide the link where she said it was AFTER the 1999 tour. You yourself have noted in another discussion what she said in the interview: http://prince.org/msg/15/...&pg=9. "Violetcrush said: "I just came across the interview that Susannah gave to RR Auction. In this discussion she specifies the time frame for the beginning of her time with Prince. She states that when the 1999 tour ended Prince began coming to LA and staying with them at their house. She explains that this was well before starting to record the Purple Rain album. So, this would have been the period when he was recording the Time album and doing pre-production for the Purple Rain album in April/May 1983. Here's the link to the interview:" So where you're getting this from now is beyond me. You certainly didn't gather the information from this interview, since Susannah explained that her memory was failing her this time around, making a point to add to keep in mind that everything she was saying was out of sequence. But since we have a history of all her statements and recollections from past interviews, and even recollections from her sister to confirm it, I think it pretty darn clear that Prince started pursuing Susannah after the 1999 tour was over, most definitely. Your first quote from Allan Light's book that Prince started showing interest in Susannah at the First Ave Benefit show August 3, 1983, was NOT in sequence to the second quote regarding the flowers. The flower sending comment was from a completely different page in the book. Sending flowers for a year, (something he'd done for Sheila E for a year as well) had to have started around the time Susannah specified Prince started pursuing her - after the 1999 tour and close to the time frame of Dez's party which was in August, and days apart from the First Ave benefit concert... so it makes complete sense. Susannah is the one who stated that Prince started pursuing her after the 1999 tour and at Dez's party. I don't understand the obsession with trying to prove something that's already been established by the lady over and over. Now you're completely ignoring the comment by her sister Wendy that backs up her statement. I won't keep going back and forth over this one when nothing you're saying is substantiated. Enjoy the thread Violetcrush. This is my last reply. [Edited 1/27/19 5:58am]

What I wrote was copied from both Biographies - Prince sent her flowers for over a year before she began an intimate relationship with him. Obviously, he would not have been regularly staying in LA between January and April - other than quick trips here and there - because they were still on the 1999 tour. However, as soon as that tour ended he was spending much of his time in LA, and as Susannah said - staying at their tiny house, and bringing her to the studio with him all the time. So, he's going to choose sleeping on a couch over staying in his own hotel room?? It's obvious why he was staying there.

*

So, from mid April through August '83 Prince was pursuing her, seeing her, kissing her in the bathroom of Sunset Sound, sending her flowers, buying her a new bed, etc, etc, etc. This has ALL been stated multiple times. He was constantly flying out to LA during that period. I have no doubt that Vanity knew there was something more going on out there then just work. She wasn't naive.

*

Vanity left July '83. Dez's birthday is August 7th. The 1st Avenue show was August 3rd which was a Wednesday. Susannah stated she arrived in July - on Vanity's last day with the camp. Prince was no longer hiding his interest in Susannah by that point. Again, the party was the point where it became evident or obvious to everyone that Prince was very interested in Susannah. He was flirting with her and giving her his attention at the party. This is really not that difficult to grasp - unless you are someone who just does not want to accept it.

*

Yes, Sheila stated Prince was sending her flowers. She also stated (Questlove interview) he wanted her to be a solo artist and she was not sure she wanted to do that. He initially brought her into the camp for the purpose of recording an album - I believe she stated this during her interview with Questlove. She was out touring at the time. He had to convince her to leave drumming and do a solo record. He didn't have to bring Susannah into the mix - he had Jill Jones, Wendy, Lisa and Brenda for backup singing. He brought her in because he wanted her there with him.

*

You are going back and forth, because you seem to not want to accept that these things were happening during that time period. I have no doubt that he was doing the same thing with Vanity after he met her in Jan '82. She was living in NY, and he wanted her to move to MN. He was also in a relationship with Susan Moonsie at the time. I'm sure Vanity received her fair share of flowers and phone calls before she made the choice to move to MN. He wouldn't have been traveling to NY, because there was no recording studio there. I have no doubt that neither Vanity nor Susan knew what was going on with the other before Vanity arrived on the scene. This was Prince's m/o back then. I never stated Susannah was the only one who received flowers. What I stated was the time frame in which she received them.

I find it sweet that Prince was staying with Wendy,Lisa and Susannah and sleeping on their couch to obviously be closer to her. I recall reading in Purple Reign about him flirting with her at Dez's party and at that point Wendy and Lisa realizing that something was going on between them. The idea of that is very cute to me.

pinkcashmere23 said:

violetcrush said:

What I wrote was copied from both Biographies - Prince sent her flowers for over a year before she began an intimate relationship with him. Obviously, he would not have been regularly staying in LA between January and April - other than quick trips here and there - because they were still on the 1999 tour. However, as soon as that tour ended he was spending much of his time in LA, and as Susannah said - staying at their tiny house, and bringing her to the studio with him all the time. So, he's going to choose sleeping on a couch over staying in his own hotel room?? It's obvious why he was staying there.

*

So, from mid April through August '83 Prince was pursuing her, seeing her, kissing her in the bathroom of Sunset Sound, sending her flowers, buying her a new bed, etc, etc, etc. This has ALL been stated multiple times. He was constantly flying out to LA during that period. I have no doubt that Vanity knew there was something more going on out there then just work. She wasn't naive.

*

Vanity left July '83. Dez's birthday is August 7th. The 1st Avenue show was August 3rd which was a Wednesday. Susannah stated she arrived in July - on Vanity's last day with the camp. Prince was no longer hiding his interest in Susannah by that point. Again, the party was the point where it became evident or obvious to everyone that Prince was very interested in Susannah. He was flirting with her and giving her his attention at the party. This is really not that difficult to grasp - unless you are someone who just does not want to accept it.

*

Yes, Sheila stated Prince was sending her flowers. She also stated (Questlove interview) he wanted her to be a solo artist and she was not sure she wanted to do that. He initially brought her into the camp for the purpose of recording an album - I believe she stated this during her interview with Questlove. She was out touring at the time. He had to convince her to leave drumming and do a solo record. He didn't have to bring Susannah into the mix - he had Jill Jones, Wendy, Lisa and Brenda for backup singing. He brought her in because he wanted her there with him.

*

You are going back and forth, because you seem to not want to accept that these things were happening during that time period. I have no doubt that he was doing the same thing with Vanity after he met her in Jan '82. She was living in NY, and he wanted her to move to MN. He was also in a relationship with Susan Moonsie at the time. I'm sure Vanity received her fair share of flowers and phone calls before she made the choice to move to MN. He wouldn't have been traveling to NY, because there was no recording studio there. I have no doubt that neither Vanity nor Susan knew what was going on with the other before Vanity arrived on the scene. This was Prince's m/o back then. I never stated Susannah was the only one who received flowers. What I stated was the time frame in which she received them.

I find it sweet that Prince was staying with Wendy,Lisa and Susannah and sleeping on their couch to obviously be closer to her. I recall reading in Purple Reign about him flirting with her at Dez's party and at that point Wendy and Lisa realizing that something was going on between them. The idea of that is very cute to me.

Yes, nobody can deny he was a "slick" operator - especially back then. I think him staying with them was very sweet too. No better way to be closer to someone then to sleep a few feet away from her And surprising her with the new bed. Wondering how long it was before he moved from the couch to the new bed

violetcrush said:

pinkcashmere23 said:

I find it sweet that Prince was staying with Wendy,Lisa and Susannah and sleeping on their couch to obviously be closer to her. I recall reading in Purple Reign about him flirting with her at Dez's party and at that point Wendy and Lisa realizing that something was going on between them. The idea of that is very cute to me.

Yes, nobody can deny he was a "slick" operator - especially back then. I think him staying with them was very sweet too. No better way to be closer to someone then to sleep a few feet away from her And surprising her with the new bed. Wondering how long it was before he moved from the couch to the new bed

Yes,he knew what he was doing lol. I'm thinking that it probably wasn't long.

Violetcrush said:

I just had to reply to ask this question. Wasn't this debate over this statement by you?



How is it that you're now practically agreeing with me that it was months after their initial meeting at the Christmas party and after the 1999 tour was over, but spinning it like that's what you were saying all along?? I gotta hand it to you Violetcrush, you sure know how to spin...! The debate started due to the fact that you were stating that Prince was pursuing Susananh the second they met at the Christmas party in Dec 1982. Which was not the case, since it was after the 1999 tour.

To address some of your other comments I see scattered..

Vanity and Prince was always in and out of a relationship. Vanity would move away from Prince when he saw other women. She did not allow it. She hauled ass, and gave him hell when he did that to her. Unlike his other women. She didn't handle it the best way, but she definitely put him through the ringer when she started seeing other people. Hence some of those angry songs he wrote like Wonderful Ass, Possessed and Irrisisatble Bitch. Songs that portrayed their tumultuous love/hate relationship. Songs that said he hated what she was doing but still couldn't leave. Best believe though, that he was still writing songs like Purple Rain that many people believe was a song that was tied to their relationship. Read the lyrics, that whole song portrays their relationship, even the omitted parts, (I don't want your money honey) So you think, "I never wanted to be your weekend lover" was inspired by his family?

I don't expect you to admit that Purple Rain was inspired by his relationship with Denise, so we could just move on from that debate.
Prince was known to write songs way before he actually recorded them, so I'd like to know how you're so sure what songs in his catalogue he actually wrote in 1982 or 1983? His relationship with Vanity also inspired The Beautiful Ones, and Strange Relationship. Strange Relationship having a subtler pronouncement than a song like Possessed or Irrisisatble Bitch... But still connects with "baby if you left me I might do something rash." Obviously, that kind of relationship should not be romanticized either, but I just wanted you to understand that Prince had many different loves in his lifetime and he didn't have to always sing songs like FIML for you to see how passionate he was about a woman. Stop trying to put his relationship with every other women down to try to make it seem like Susannah was the only woman he ever loved. He loved many women in different ways. Vanity, Susannah, Susan, Mayte, Sheila e...

In April of 83 after the tour was over, Vanity and Prince was definitely at the off stage because that's when he lost his cool in public going apeshit at Vanity and Adam Ant for being together. So what do you think Prince's reaction would be to that situation? They were young and played the jealousy game against one another... "Katrina's Paper Doll" Are you surprised that he was gonna try to go after his new bandmates twin sister? FYI, Vanity was at that Benefit concert, I'm definitely not surprised that it's where it became apparent that he was pursuing Susannah.
[Edited 1/27/19 15:21pm]

I’m wondering if anyone else’s first kiss happened in the most unromantic place imaginable, a public bathroom? That’s yucky and very un-Prince like. But Susannah is also the one who said Starfish and Coffe was written for her classmate who bobbed for apples in the school toilets. Yes, she said that. Her fantasy life has a strange theme.
[Edited 1/27/19 15:44pm]

luvgirl said:

Violetcrush said:

What I wrote was copied from both Biographies - Prince sent her flowers for over a year before she began an intimate relationship with him. Obviously, he would not have been regularly staying in LA between January and April - other than quick trips here and there - because they were still on the 1999 tour. However, as soon as that tour ended he was spending much of his time in LA, and as Susannah said - staying at their tiny house, and bringing her to the studio with him all the time. So, he's going to choose sleeping on a couch over staying in his own hotel room?? It's obvious why he was staying there. * So, from mid April through August '83 Prince was pursuing her, seeing her, kissing her in the bathroom of Sunset Sound, sending her flowers, buying her a new bed, etc, etc, etc. This has ALL been stated multiple times. He was constantly flying out to LA during that period. I have no doubt that Vanity knew there was something more going on out there then just work. She wasn't naive. * Vanity left July '83. Dez's birthday is August 7th. The 1st Avenue show was August 3rd which was a Wednesday. Susannah stated she arrived in July - on Vanity's last day with the camp. Prince was no longer hiding his interest in Susannah by that point. Again, the party was the point where it became evident or obvious to everyone that Prince was very interested in Susannah. He was flirting with her and giving her his attention at the party. This is really not that difficult to grasp - unless you are someone who just does not want to accept it. * Yes, Sheila stated Prince was sending her flowers. She also stated (Questlove interview) he wanted her to be a solo artist and she was not sure she wanted to do that. He initially brought her into the camp for the purpose of recording an album - I believe she stated this during her interview with Questlove. She was out touring at the time. He had to convince her to leave drumming and do a solo record. He didn't have to bring Susannah into the mix - he had Jill Jones, Wendy, Lisa and Brenda for backup singing. He brought her in because he wanted her there with him. * You are going back and forth, because you seem to not want to accept that these things were happening during that time period. I have no doubt that he was doing the same thing with Vanity after he met her in Jan '82. She was living in NY, and he wanted her to move to MN. He was also in a relationship with Susan Moonsie at the time. I'm sure Vanity received her fair share o

I just had to reply to ask this question. Wasn't this debate over this statement by you?

It's clear now (even though it's also been documented in prior Biographies) that Prince began heavily pursuing Susannah just after he met her at the WB Christmas party, which would have been Dec or early Jan of 1983"

How is it that you're now practically agreeing with me that it was months after their initial meeting at the Christmas party and after the 1999 tour was over, but spinning it like that's what you were saying all along?? I gotta hand it to you Violetcrush, you sure know how to spin...! The debate started due to the fact that you were stating that Prince was pursuing Susananh the second they met at the Christmas party in Dec 1982. Which was not the case, since it was after the 1999 tour. To address some of your other comments I see scattered.. Vanity and Prince was always in and out of a relationship. Vanity would move away from Prince when he saw other women. She did not allow it. She hauled ass, and gave him hell when he did that to her. Unlike his other women. She didn't handle it the best way, but she definitely put him through the ringer when she started seeing other people. Hence some of those angry songs he wrote like Wonderful Ass, Possessed and Irrisisatble Bitch. Songs that portrayed their tumultuous love/hate relationship. Songs that said he hated what she was doing but still couldn't leave. Best believe though, that he was still writing songs like Purple Rain that many people believe was a song that was tied to their relationship. Read the lyrics, that whole song portrays their relationship, even the omitted parts, "I don't want your money honey..." So, you think, "I never wanted to be your weekend lover" was for his family? I don't expect you to admit that Purple Rain was inspired by his relationship with Denise, so we could just move on from that debate. Prince was known to write songs way before he actually recorded them, so I'd like to know how you're so sure what songs he actually wrote in 1982 or 1983? He also wrote The Beautiful Ones, and Strange Relationship. Strange Relationship having a subtler pronouncement than a song like Possessed or Irrisisatble Bitch... But still connects with "baby if you left me I might do something rash." Obviously, that kind of relationship should not be romanticized either, but I just wanted you to understand that Prince had many different loves in his lifetime and he didn't have to always sing songs like FIML for you to see how passionate he was about a woman. Stop trying to put his relationship with every other women down to try to make it seem like Susannah was the only woman he ever loved. He loved many women in different ways. Vanity, Susannah, Susan, Mayte, Sheila e... In April of 83 after the tour was over, Vanity and Prince was definitely at the off stage because that's when he lost his cool in public going apeshit at Vanity and Adam Ant for being together. So what do you think Prince's reaction would be to that situation? They were young and played the jealousy game against one another... "Katrina's Paper Doll" Are you surprised that he was gonna try to go after his new bandmates twin sister? FYI, Vanity was at that Benefit concert, I'm definitely not surprised that it's where it became apparent that he was pursuing Susannah. [Edited 1/27/19 14:35pm]

"It's clear now (even though it's also been documented in prior Biographies) that Prince began heavily pursuing Susannah just after he met her at the WB Christmas party, which would have been Dec or early Jan of 1983"

*

Yep, that was exactly my statement. And I would say that having flowers delivered to her door EVERYDAY from the time he first met her at that Christmas party would fall under the classification of heavily pursuing her. How many men deliver flowers to a woman every single day for over a year??

*

1983 Benefit concert - I'm sure Vanity was at the concert, along with Kim Upsher, Susan Moonise, and probably many other girls he had been with over the years. Kim Upsher was in the film for goodness sake. However, I doubt she was at Dez's birthday party. I also believe I read that Vanity did not even say goodbye to Prince before she left MN for good, which I think was that October.

*

Luvgirl said:

Vanity would move away from Prince when he saw other women. She did not allow it. She hauled ass, and gave him hell when he did that to her. Unlike his other women. She didn't handle it the best way, but she definitely put him through the ringer when she started seeing other people.

*

Again, you are depicting Vanity as the girlfriend who "wouldn't stand for Prince's behavior" -seriously?? He was literally and blatantly rotating between Susan Moonsie, Jill Jones, and Vanity - and that's not including the "road" girls when they were on tour, as Jill labeled them. Listen to Jill's interview with Prince Podcast. She very clearly details that situation (paraphrasing her words) "if one of us was missing on the bus we knew who he was with that night, but if we were all there then it was like, "wait, who is he with now???" Vanity was with other men because she wanted a reaction from Prince, period. In that playboy video interview she stated Prince would have his bodyguards pull a guy off of the dance floor if she was dancing with someone. This was all typical immature behavior for very young people in a relationship.

*

So now you are speculating and assuming that Irresistible Bitch and Possessed were written about Vanity?? Possessed was recorded on May 15th 1983 - fully into the time period when Prince was pursuing Susannah - look at the lyrics, which depict him going crazy because the girl is all he thinks about and he's "got to make some love to her". Irresistible Bitch was first recorded late 1981 - so clearly not originally about Vanity - however, it was re-recorded in September of 1983 - again, during his time of pursuing Susannah. So, if anything, those songs would have been inspired by Susannah based on the lyrics. Not sure how you can put Vanity into that picture. Wonderful Ass was recorded January 1983, so yes, that makes sense, however, it is FAR from any kind of love song. It's actually quite demeaning if you really read and understand the lyrics, which specifically state he's with her because of her "wonderful ass" - not for any other qualities.

*

Not going to start the wheel spinning again about The Beautiful Ones - already discussed that ad-nauseum on this thread. Strange Relationship - yep, he did write that during his time with Vanity. However, considering the fact that the song easily describes ALL of his relationships with women, it is not at all a stretch to understand why he pulled that out again during his time with Susannah. Vanity left in '83, so she had been gone for 3 years when it was worked on again - coincidentally, during the time that Susannah was leaving him. The SOTT record (and Dream Factory, and teh original Crystal Ball) was Prince and Susannah, and that is where the song was placed. Interestingly, during his ONA show in Japan he began playing the song, and said, "we're about to go way back...1986 back!". He did not say "1983 back", so clearly he associates the song with that time period.

*

Purple Rain - so the discarded lyric "I don't want your money..." relates to Vanity?? How so? What money did she have at that time? Prince had the money, not Vanity, which is why she left the camp. The lyric "I never wanted to be your weekend lover, I only wanted to be some kind of friend.." actually implies that he never intended to be this person's lover, but just to be a friend. Same with the first verse "I never meant to cause you any sorrow, never meant to cause you any pain..." This song is either inspired by some other connection he had or a completely fictional story.

*

I never stated that Prince was not passionate about Vanity. AGAIN, what I've stated is that I think it was a relationship based more on the physical - at least for Prince. I think it was intense, sexual, and volatile. The songs show that. The relationship with Susannah was on a different level - deeper emotionally. The songs show that. He didn't just want her body, he wanted her mind too..."in my head, in my bed, every word you've spoken. How am I gonna fill this empty room?" FIML "you are my saviour, you are my light, forever I want you in my life..."

VioletCrush Said:

"Another setback occurred when Vanity decided to quit the film project and Vanity Six in August. Her relationship with Prince was over, having turned into an intense love-hate affair, with fierce arguments followed by passionate make-ups. If previous girlfriends had been patient and willing to accept that they didn't have Prince undivided attention, Vanity wanted total commitment and would not tolerate any affairs on the side. "Prince always had many women at the same time and I'm simply too old fashioned for that. I need a man entirely to myself. My relationship with Prince was too beautiful, too intense and yet also too ugly. We wore each other out. Our chemistry was explosive, and it just couldn't go on like that." ~DMSR

Vanity was the only girl that didn't let Prince walk all over her. She gave back as good as she got. He literally lost his cool in public because of it. I'm not romanticizing or promoting what she did, just speaking the fact of the matter. She was the only one that truly walked away from him to take on her own independence. He was still steaming about it years later, telling Anna Fantastic that he wasn't sure if he wanted to help her because he didn't want her to do to him what Vanity did. She might have been on that bus for a bit like all of them but even Allan Leeds stated that when he got there Prince was trying to act like he was still in there while Vanity was letting everyone know that Prince couldn't touch her. Jesse Johnson said Prince thought she was joking when she said she was gonna leave. Surprise, "she wasn't F-ing joking."



I'm not entertaining Strange Relationship with you, cuz you know darn well I'm not talking about a re-recording. This song was inspired by Prince's relationship with Vanity. Confirmed. You always have me on the floor with that "Way back, 1986 back" comment though!



I'm rolling with the queen of speculation tonight. Entertain me!

Possessed: "Have you ever had the feeling that someone was tearing you up Into little bitty pieces and contemplating selling you for a jigsaw puzzle? You are like an animal running around Inside the cage of my heart. Aren't you due for a vacation, dirty liar?"

Really? That one is for Susannah too huh? Enlighten me? Why would Prince tell Susannah "I wish I didn't need you, wish I didn't care?" Why would he call her a dirty liar? Did he run into her with Adam Ant in April of that year only to record the song in May? The song is clearly Prince fighting his desires for a woman that he did not trust.

"You want me to trust you, I wish that I could." ~ Wonderful Ass

Purple Rain "I never wanted to be your weekend lover, I only wanted to be some kind of friend." You can't read between the lines of "Some kind of friend?" Obviously he's saying he wanted her in his life under whatever circumstances.
"I don't want your money, no" Come on! Everyone knows that Vanity was screaming bloody murder about her low pay, and none too please that she was being offered only $5000 to do the movie. Prince was telling her melodiously that he wasn't trying to steal from her pockets by not paying her. He wasn't trying to take her money.

Irresistible Bitch. Firstly, though a great site, Prince Vault dates change quite frequently. None of that is fully set in stone. Secondly, Allan Beaulieu recently stated that Prince and Denise met in 1981. So...
This song has the same theme as Possessed. Prince wishing again he could resist a woman he was in an untrustworthy relationship with.

Okay, I'm really gonna try to be done now. Bye forever.
[Edited 1/27/19 19:48pm]

I think SM was his “yes” girl his more homespun girl. His middle maybe upper middle class moment. His dinner party girl. His “girl of priviledge” moment.
Of course those songs like FIML would be spawned from that type of relationship.
It doesn’t for me mean the relationship was any deeper that his “ride or die”
Relationships that spawned more volatile music. He simply was using the scenario
As fuel. SM was willing to take a bunch of crap, who wouldn’t want that to stick around. That is a lot of potential material/songs. She herself said she was willing to put up with it.

I like something about all his women. But I think as I’ve stated before, he used
Them all for songs. That is why the music was so good then, he was living the drama and used it to his advantage. It as a soup pot of women and he mixed it up!!!

How can a song be recorded in 1981 be about Susannah when he didn't even know her then?

Irresistible Bitch was first recorded late 1981 - so clearly not originally about Vanity - however, it was re-recorded in September of 1983 - again, during his time of pursuing Susannah. So, if anything, those songs would have been inspired by Susannah based on the lyrics.

PennyPurple said:

I never stated the song was originally written for Susannah. However, luvgirl stated Vanity originally inspired that song, which would not have been possible as she did not meet Prince until Jan of '82. What I said was that he re-recorded it during the time that he was heavily pursuing Susannah - not Canity.

luvgirl said:

VioletCrush Said:

Again, you are depicting Vanity as the girlfriend who "wouldn't stand for Prince's behavior" -seriously?? He was literally and blatantly rotating between Susan Moonsie, Jill Jones, and Vanity - and that's not including the "road" girls when they were on tour, as Jill labeled them. Listen to Jill's interview with Prince Podcast. She very clearly details that situation (paraphrasing her words) "if one of us was missing on the bus we knew who he was with that night, but if we were all there then it was like, "wait, who is he with now???" Vanity was with other men because she wanted a reaction from Prince, period. In that playboy video interview she stated Prince would have his bodyguards pull a guy off of the dance floor if she was dancing with someone. This was all typical immature behavior for very young people in a relationship.

"Another setback occurred when Vanity decided to quit the film project and Vanity Six in August. Her relationship with Prince was over, having turned into an intense love-hate affair, with fierce arguments followed by passionate make-ups. If previous girlfriends had been patient and willing to accept that they didn't have Prince undivided attention, Vanity wanted total commitment and would not tolerate any affairs on the side. "Prince always had many women at the same time and I'm simply too old fashioned for that. I need a man entirely to myself. My relationship with Prince was too beautiful, too intense and yet also too ugly. We wore each other out. Our chemistry was explosive, and it just couldn't go on like that." ~DMSR Vanity was the only girl that didn't let Prince walk all over her. She gave back as good as she got. He literally lost his cool in public because of it. I'm not romanticizing or promoting what she did, just speaking the fact of the matter. She was the only one that truly walked away from him to take on her own independence. He was still steaming about it years later, telling Anna Fantastic that he wasn't sure if he wanted to help her because he didn't want her to do to him what Vanity did. She might have been on that bus for a bit like all of them but even Allan Leeds stated that when he got there Prince was trying to act like he was still in there while Vanity was letting everyone know that Prince couldn't touch her. Jesse Johnson said Prince thought she was joking when she said she was gonna leave. Surprise, "she wasn't F-ing joking." I'm not entertaining Strange Relationship with you, cuz you know darn well I'm not talking about a re-recording. This song was inspired by Prince's relationship with Vanity. Confirmed. You always have me on the floor with that "Way back, 1986 back" comment though!

So now you are speculating and assuming that Irresistible Bitch and Possessed were written about Vanity?? Possessed was recorded on May 15th 1983 - fully into the time period when Prince was pursuing Susannah - look at the lyrics, which depict him going crazy because the girl is all he thinks about and he's "got to make some love to her". Irresistible Bitch was first recorded late 1981 - so clearly not originally about Vanity - however, it was re-recorded in September of 1983 - again, during his time of pursuing Susannah. So, if anything, those songs would have been inspired by Susannah based on the lyrics. Not sure how you can put Vanity into that picture. Wonderful Ass was recorded January 1983, so yes, that makes sense, however, it is FAR from any kind of love song. It's actually quite demeaning if you really read and understand the lyrics, which specifically state he's with her because of her "wonderful ass" - not for any other qualities.

I'm rolling with the queen of speculation tonight. Entertain me! Possessed: "Have you ever had the feeling that someone was tearing you up Into little bitty pieces and contemplating selling you for a jigsaw puzzle? You are like an animal running around Inside the cage of my heart. Aren't you due for a vacation, dirty liar?" Really? That one is for Susannah too huh? Enlighten me? Why would Prince tell Susannah "I wish I didn't need you, wish I didn't care?" Why would he call her a dirty liar? Did he run into her with Adam Ant in April of that year only to record the song in May? The song is clearly Prince fighting his desires for a woman that he did not trust. "You want me to trust you, I wish that I could." ~ Wonderful Ass Purple Rain "I never wanted to be your weekend lover, I only wanted to be some kind of friend." You can't read between the lines of "Some kind of friend?" Obviously he's saying he wanted her in his life under whatever circumstances. "I don't want your money, no" Come on! Everyone knows that Vanity was screaming bloody murder about her low pay, and none too please that she was being offered only $5000 to do the movie. Prince was telling her melodiously that he wasn't trying to steal from her pockets by not paying her. He wasn't trying to take her money. Irresistible Bitch. Firstly, though a great site, Prince Vault dates change quite frequently. None of that is fully set in stone. Secondly, Allan Beaulieu recently stated that Prince and Denise met in 1981. So... This song has the same theme as Possessed. Prince wishing again he could resist a woman he was in an untrustworthy relationship with. Okay, I'm really gonna try to be done now. Bye forever. [Edited 1/27/19 19:48pm]

Actually, YOUR embelleshments are quite entertaining, I must say. Where do I start here??

*

Purple Rain - the lyric is "I don't want your money, no no I don't even want your love. If I did I'd take me some money and go out and buy it. I want the heavy stuff. I want the purple rain - ie: he's looking for something more than she can give him. Also, you do know that initially Prince wasn't even going to write the lyrics for the song - that he sent the music to Stevie Nicks and wanted her to write the lyrics?? Clearly, he was not that inspired by any particular person or event if he wanted someone else to do the lyric. I've actually been listening to several of the 1983 rehearsals, and he's singing the lyrics jokingly when they do the song.

*

Wonderful Ass - "you want me to trust you, I wish that I could...you can't build a house out of plastic wood....my sensibilties you can't relate....I guess what it is is that I hate your ideas of fun but baby I rate your ass number 1...I don't usually have time to drink from your glass, but I can always find time for for your ass".....oh yeah, those are some heartfelt lyrics - right up there with FIML

*

Possessed - not sure what lyric you're referring to, but this is what I'm talking about:

*

Something's the matter baby, I'm going insane
Something inside of me keeps talkin' to my brain
Why can't I stop this satanic lust?
I know I shouldn't hold you, but my body says I must

[Chorus]
I'm possessed, ooh
And I don't know what to do
Ooh, I'm possessed, yes, ooh
I'm stone crazy in love with you

[Verse 2]
Something's the matter baby, you're all I see
Your voice is all I hear beggin' to me
I wish I didn't need you, wish I didn't care
I've got to make some love to you cuz it much too much to bare

[Chorus]
I'm possessed, yes I am
And I don't know what to do
Ooh, I'm possessed, oh
I'm stone crazy in love with you

I'm possessed
Don't know what to do
I'm possessed
I'm stone crazy, ooh

[Verse 3]
Something's the matter baby, my mind's in a daze
I'm trippin' on your love, it's so hard for me to relate
Can't stop this yearnin', Lord knows I've tried
Free me from despair, I'm much too young to die

[Chorus]
I'm possessed, ooh
And I don't know what I'm gonna do
I'm possessed, ooh (I'm)
I'm stone crazy in love with you

I'm possessed, ooh (Yes I am)
And I don't know what I'm gonna do
I'm possessed, yeah!
I'm stone crazy in love with you, ooh
Yeah ooh
Yeah ooh
Yeah ooh
Yeah!

*

So, Prince would go from a song like Wonderful Ass about Vanity in January, to the song Possessed in May - after he'd been in LA for over a month staying at Susannah's house?? Oh, and pinning her up against the wall in the bathroom, tellilng her that he can't stop thinking about her?? I would say it's 100% feasible the song was inspired by Susannah. Listen to the lyrics - he's possessed because she's all he's thinking about, and he feels like he's going insane. He wasn't sending her flowers everyday, staying at her shoebox house and attacking her with kisses in the studio bathroom for the heck of it -- he obviously wanted to be with her.

*

Actually, I'm not sure where you get your information about Allan Leed's comments, because what I read was his comment stating that when he first arrived, toward the end of the 1999 tour, and got to know the group it was clear that the relationship between Prince and Vanity was over. I have no doubt that Prince didn't know she was going to leave, and I'm sure he didn't want to have to deal with finding a new girl for the film either.

*

So, now you're changing the YEAR that Prince met Vanity??? Even though she has stated it in interviews (I'll post one soon), and it's written on her Wikipedia page?? Okay, sure!! NOW who's changing the dates, timelines and narrative?? Here's her Wiki page in the interim:

*

In 1980, Matthews was dating Rick James, but after she met Prince at the American Music Awards, Matthews and Prince became an item.^[7] Vanity was linked romantically to Adam Ant (who wrote the track "Vanity" about her on hisStrip album) and Billy Idol.^[8] In 1987, she stated that she and Mötley Crüe bassist Nikki Sixx were engaged. She joked that she would become Vanity 6 (Sixx) again. They never married. In Sixx's 2007 autobiography, The Heroin Diaries: A Year in the Life of a Shattered Rock Star, he describes his 1987 drug use with Vanity who was addicted to crack cocaine at the time. In 1995, she married football player Anthony Smith of the Oakland Raiders.^[9]

purplefam99 said:

I think SM was his “yes” girl his more homespun girl. His middle maybe upper middle class moment. His dinner party girl. His “girl of priviledge” moment. Of course those songs like FIML would be spawned from that type of relationship. It doesn’t for me mean the relationship was any deeper that his “ride or die” Relationships that spawned more volatile music. He simply was using the scenario As fuel. SM was willing to take a bunch of crap, who wouldn’t want that to stick around. That is a lot of potential material/songs. She herself said she was willing to put up with it. I like something about all his women. But I think as I’ve stated before, he used Them all for songs. That is why the music was so good then, he was living the drama and used it to his advantage. It as a soup pot of women and he mixed it up!!!

ALL of the girls put up with it though. I agree 100% (bolded part above), and that has consistently been my point all along. If you look at the songs recorded during the periods with each woman THAT is the most accurate reflection of his feelings and what was happening at that time. Even Susannah stated, "what are we doing in this moment that will inspire the music?" He communicated through his music too.

*

I disagree though about the depth of the relationships. Sorry, but you can't put Wonderful Ass/Let's Pretend We're Married and Empty Room/ FIML in the same room, or building, or hemisphere. They are not even close in tems of expressing deeper feelings. Prince's songs about sex and love are easily distinguishable - for the most part - some are mixed, but most are not.

*

Susannah didn't take any more "crap" than the ones before or after her, but she did get a bunch of very heartfelt and emotional love songs from him. As Wendy stated, "the relationship was impossible, but their love and pain inspired some great music."

muchtoofast said:

I’m wondering if anyone else’s first kiss happened in the most unromantic place imaginable, a public bathroom? That’s yucky and very un-Prince like. But Susannah is also the one who said Starfish and Coffe was written for her classmate who bobbed for apples in the school toilets. Yes, she said that. Her fantasy life has a strange theme. [Edited 1/27/19 15:44pm]

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Oh God, your comments are really laughable at this point. Really laughable!!!

*

Yeah, you've got one of the sexiest and soon-to-be biggest rock stars sleeping over at your house, sending you flowers everyday, inviting you to the studio with him constantly, leaving a new bed at your door, and then pushing you up against the wall and kissing you all over your face and neck telling you he can't stop thinking about you. WOW, wouldn't that just be the worst thing ever??!! THEY WERE IN A PUBLIC STUDIO WITH TECHS AND ENGINEERS THERE. I love that he couldn't contain himself, and acted on impulse - as every other girl would too.

*

Oh wow, such a class act you are - now poking fun at her story about an autistic girl that she be-friended and looked after during grade school. Nothing like really below-the-belt insults when that's your only defense here. You do know she has a writing credit for that song, right? You do also know that Prince actually confirmed the song was about a mentally challenged girl, right? You do know that he played that song - much to his audiences delight - on most of his tours through the years, including the P&M shows, right?? If not, you should read up and listen up to his concerts. Here's Prince's response about the song:

*

Prince, as m answering fans' questions on the Love4OneAnother web site Nov 17th 1997:

U: There’s been a discussion going on around the ’net about what Starfish and Coffee means. Can u explain that song? Is it about a mentally challenged girl?

: Let’s say mentally alternative, or “gifted,” shall we?

*

There ya go....can we be done with the absurd and petty comments now???

[Edited 1/27/19 22:07pm]

Here is the 1988 interview Vanity did with Playboy. In the introductory segment the reporter states that Purple Rain was based on her relationship with Prince, however when Vanity is specifically asked about the film she states that she helped write some of the dialogue, but not the story. This would be right, because it was confirmed that William Blinn and Albert Magnoli completed the script for the film. The footage is sad, because she appears to be on something. She also looks away when talking about the name "Vanity". She certainly was a beautiful woman though.

*

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVkFLNqTU1I

violetcrush said:

muchtoofast said:

I’m wondering if anyone else’s first kiss happened in the most unromantic place imaginable, a public bathroom? That’s yucky and very un-Prince like. But Susannah is also the one who said Starfish and Coffe was written for her classmate who bobbed for apples in the school toilets. Yes, she said that. Her fantasy life has a strange theme. [Edited 1/27/19 15:44pm]

*

Oh God, your comments are really laughable at this point. Really laughable!!!

*

Yeah, you've got one of the sexiest and soon-to-be biggest rock stars sleeping over at your house, sending you flowers everyday, inviting you to the studio with him constantly, leaving a new bed at your door, and then pushing you up against the wall and kissing you all over your face and neck telling you he can't stop thinking about you. WOW, wouldn't that just be the worst thing ever??!! THEY WERE IN A PUBLIC STUDIO WITH TECHS AND ENGINEERS THERE. I love that he couldn't contain himself, and acted on impulse - as every other girl would too.

*

Oh wow, such a class act you are - now poking fun at her story about an autistic girl that she be-friended and looked after during grade school. Nothing like really below-the-belt insults when that's your only defense here. You do know she has a writing credit for that song, right? You do also know that Prince actually confirmed the song was about a mentally challenged girl, right? You do know that he played that song - much to his audiences delight - on most of his tours through the years, including the P&M shows, right?? If not, you should read up and listen up to his concerts. Here's Prince's response about the song:

*

Prince, as m answering fans' questions on the Love4OneAnother web site Nov 17th 1997:

? of the week - Answers

here r the results of the last year when we asked u 2 send in ?s. check it out, he may have already answered ur ?.

U: There’s been a discussion going on around the ’net about what Starfish and Coffee means. Can u explain that song? Is it about a mentally challenged girl?

: Let’s say mentally alternative, or “gifted,” shall we?

*

There ya go....can we be done with the absurd and petty comments now???

[Edited 1/27/19 22:07pm]

That was sweet of Prince to say. He obviously had much love for the song including it in so many set lists and I love that he played it at several of the P&M shows.

violetcrush said:

And all I’m saying is I think he was aware of his chemistry experiments
Knew that they would cause certain reactions. He applied whatever ingredient he wanted and then got the reactions and then wrote about it. I think that is why he was able to have so many relationships less because he was unable to commit
More because of his formula for making music was this system of using women for the outcome. SM was new territory for him in that she was taking his crap from a different place than the other women. She handnt been abused her familial group
Was still intact she came from a more privileged background. It was to me fertile
New ground for music, he pursued the muse for the music, not the muse and then music came. It doesn’t mean to me that it was love in her regard. I mean isn’t the that what UTCM is kinda making fun of the privileged “stupid/ naive” rich girl. If that assement is off I apologize but that is what I got from it.

pinkcashmere23 said:

For the song!!! Yes pink I agree. They were his true loves, the songs, his children he called them. Prince was a tree dropping nuts so rapidly cause he wanted many sprouts if himself!!!!! And the music was it!!! Anyway there he took.
Imo.

purplefam99 said:

I disagree though. The song was her personal story and a special connection to her. It was significant enough for him to take the time to turn it into a beautiful song. Were all of his songs inspired by something special? No, and you can usually tell the difference.
*
His inspiration for songs came from his life experiences. He was not specifically seeking out certain people for inspiration. The songs came as the relationship progressed, changed or ended. It's impossible to know how someone will inspire you when you don't know them. His music was reactionary to what was happening in his life in that moment.
*
Regarding UTCM - the narrative of the film shows a gigolo - focused on sex with only rich women for money. Mary Sharon is his next conquest, however, while trying to seduce her as another "notch" on the belt , he unexpectedly falls in love with her. She initially looks down on him, as she figures out who he is and what he is doing, but ultimately falls in love with him. In the end he is hunted down and killed by her Father who wants him away from his Daughter. Message - if you live a life of womanizing and for only money (aka a life of sin) you do not deserve a happy ending.
*
You can see a parallel in the song FIML - "juggling hearts in a 3 ring circus someday drive a body down to the ground. I never imagined love would rain on me and make me want to settle down. Baby it's true, I think I do, and I just want to tell you that I want to with you."
[Edited 1/28/19 8:27am]

violetcrush said:

I really don’t see it that deep.
I think he watched a lot of tv and was good
At weaving a story. He would have been a good tv
Writer too.

purplefam99 said:

Well, his storytelling/directing skills were not top notch, because the film tanked and was nominated for 8 Razzie awards. I think he was trying to convey a deeper message under the guise of campy comedy - until the end where it takes a sudden tragic turn. Too much contrast to the story, amateur acting with Prince's crew, and no chemistry between Prince and Kristin Scott Thomas. Prince changed the ending at the last minute. The Execs were pissed.

violetcrush said:

agree, his storytelling was best had at the 3-9 min mark, in song
Format. Perhaps he would have excelled at commercials. Anyway he landed in the
Storytelling format best suited for him.... songs.

violetcrush said:

Your investment in her fantasies and obvious lies are what is laughable. And that Facebook video of hers is an embarrassment TO HER. I can’t believe you actually linked to that. I almost died from second hand embarrassment for her, she is a PEST Prince couldn’t get rid of even after kicking her out of his house, and looks still to be a pest in that video. The other people in that video were CRINGING at her nutty behavior. Poor her. Yours is a fan fantasy, that’s all, and a pass time for you, it isn’t THE TRUTH.

muchtoofast said:

What video are you referring to?? No idea what you are ranting about this time - no doubt more meaningless drivel.
*
You make a complete fool of yourself with the senseless hating, because the historic record of her place in his life, and his continued contact with her until his death just makes you look more and more ridiculous on this thread.

violetcrush said:

Violet you must admit that your tenacity about this subjsect rivals that of the infamous
Laura Richardson (not the topic) Who I appreciated and miss. I think it is great!
The comparison is surely a complement.

purplefam99 said:

I couldn't disagree more. In fact, I believe you are the pot calling the kettle black on that assessment. My comments are far from the "snarky" nonsense with which you have littered this thread. So, I would say in that regard you would be making that former member very proud

violetcrush said:

Hummm I’m gonna assume your taking my ribbing
Lightly since you gave me a smiley face.
I don’t think I’ve littered the thread.
I think I’ve barely been here.
And I wasn’t meaning for my comments to come off as snark.
This is all about talking and conversation for me.

purplefam99 said:

violetcrush said:

I couldn't disagree more. In fact, I believe you are the pot calling the kettle black on that assessment. My comments are far from the "snarky" nonsense with which you have littered this thread. So, I would say in that regard you would be making that former member very proud

Hummm I’m gonna assume your taking my ribbing Lightly since you gave me a smiley face. I don’t think I’ve littered the thread. I think I’ve barely been here. And I wasn’t meaning for my comments to come off as snark. This is all about talking and conversation for me.

So Sorry purplefam99!! I thought that was muchtoofast back for another dig To be fair though, I think I"m far from a "Laura Richardson", who didn't even have the decency or maturity to write Susannah's name correctly here - it was always "Susan". Really?? you're THAT spiteful toward a person you've never met? I think there was some deeper stuff going on there with her. From my end, I think I've been respectful, however, I'm no pushover So, if a poster comes back with a rude or snarky comment I'm going to give 'em some of that medicine back

*

Here's my thing with Susannah Melvoin - I think, by this point, most long-term Prince fans who know the history and his music can agree that she was an important person in his life. The Prince-o-pedia folks - Per Nilsen, Matt Thorne, Alan Light, Questlove, and Duane Tudahl - seem to understand that, as they have prominently featured her in their books/interviews. For God's sake, Matt Thorne devotes a big chunk of a chapter to the songs Prince wrote for her in his book, and her relationship with him, and her name was even used in one of the 2004 SNL Prince Show" skits that Fred Armison and Maya Rudolph used to do . I'll post the link here, it's really funny.

*

There is also enough evidence out there - between later songs (In This Bed I Scream, and I"m sure more), the letter sent to her in the mid 90's, the acknowledgement of her contributions to his success at the '95 AMA's, and Susannah's own detailed statements - to show that regardless of some bumps in the road, they remained in contact and important to each other.

*

Here's the SNL skit:

*

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rsjhmb7s814

violetcrush said:

Yes my comparison was only regarding tenacity that you shared.

I’m not aware of any book that Questlove has written where he states such about SM
Toure didn’t even mention her in his book. I think with the other gentlemen authors,
I think they could see themselves with her, she fit the ideal women in their minds
The one that should be “chosen” I think that is why she got there attention and gets mentioned. All of the others don’t measure up to the “Jewish princes”
And she might not even have Jewish blood but that is what it seems like.
I have Jewish blood so I’m not hating on my Lord’s heritage.

I could be wrong but I just don’t think he loved her anymore than the rest, did she inspire more songs yes maybe. But just because the sun has more songs it doesn’t make the
Ocean less loved because it has 20 less songs about it. Imo

purplefam99 said:

violetcrush said:

Well, his storytelling/directing skills were not top notch, because the film tanked and was nominated for 8 Razzie awards. I think he was trying to convey a deeper message under the guise of campy comedy - until the end where it takes a sudden tragic turn. Too much contrast to the story, amateur acting with Prince's crew, and no chemistry between Prince and Kristin Scott Thomas. Prince changed the ending at the last minute. The Execs were pissed.

agree, his storytelling was best had at the 3-9 min mark, in song Format. Perhaps he would have excelled at commercials. Anyway he landed in the Storytelling format best suited for him.... songs.

Agreed. There is another thread running now about UTCM, and most agree that the film should have been incorporated full musical performances with the expanded Revolution, and he should have kept Susannah as female lead for more romantic chemistry. Lack of acting skills would not have been as big of an issue with more musical performances - similar to how Purple Rain was done.

*

Yes, after the GB disaster I think he was done with films. Music was his thing - not film.

purplefam99 said:

violetcrush said:

So Sorry purplefam99!! I thought that was muchtoofast back for another dig To be fair though, I think I"m far from a "Laura Richardson", who didn't even have the decency or maturity to write Susannah's name correctly here - it was always "Susan". Really?? you're THAT spiteful toward a person you've never met? I think there was some deeper stuff going on there with her. From my end, I think I've been respectful, however, I'm no pushover So, if a poster comes back with a rude or snarky comment I'm going to give 'em some of that medicine back

*

Here's my thing with Susannah Melvoin - I think, by this point, most long-term Prince fans who know the history and his music can agree that she was an important person in his life. The Prince-o-pedia folks - Per Nilsen, Matt Thorne, Alan Light, Questlove, and Duane Tudahl - seem to understand that, as they have prominently featured her in their books/interviews. For God's sake, Matt Thorne devotes a big chunk of a chapter to the songs Prince wrote for her in his book, and her relationship with him, and her name was even used in one of the 2004 SNL Prince Show" skits that Fred Armison and Maya Rudolph used to do . I'll post the link here, it's really funny.

*

There is also enough evidence out there - between later songs (In This Bed I Scream, and I"m sure more), the letter sent to her in the mid 90's, the acknowledgement of her contributions to his success at the '95 AMA's, and Susannah's own detailed statements - to show that regardless of some bumps in the road, they remained in contact and important to each other.

*

Here's the SNL skit:

*

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rsjhmb7s814

Yes my comparison was only regarding tenacity that you shared. I’m not aware of any book that Questlove has written where he states such about SM Toure didn’t even mention her in his book. I think with the other gentlemen authors, I think they could see themselves with her, she fit the ideal women in their minds The one that should be “chosen” I think that is why she got there attention and gets mentioned. All of the others don’t measure up to the “Jewish princes” And she might not even have Jewish blood but that is what it seems like. I have Jewish blood so I’m not hating on my Lord’s heritage. I could be wrong but I just don’t think he loved her anymore than the rest, did she inspire more songs yes maybe. But just because the sun has more songs it doesn’t make the Ocean less loved because it has 20 less songs about it. Imo

See my bolded comment above - I posted books/interviews, not just books.

*

Regarding Toure's book - there are contributions from an "ex-girlfriend" in the book, which I think was Susannah - she was also a guest on his panel back in 2013 (when he was promoting the book) to discuss Prince, along with LA Reid.

*

C'mon!!! These guys, especially Alan Light, are not going to base their information on who they can "see themselves with" - that would be quite absurd. Their inclusion of her contributions and discussion of the relationship and songs also has nothing to do with her or them being Jewish??!! They have all done their research, interviewing many from that time period, and also understanding the song lyrics. There is no favoritism going on there. It's not the quantity of songs at all, but the quality of the writing and music - this by far, is the biggest reason she, and also Wendy and Lisa, are featured in the Biogrpahies and discussions of that time period and beyond. There is such depth to those songs. Wendy and Lisa also continued to work with him off and on through the years. He loved those girls.