violetcrush said:

pinkcashmere23 said:

Yes,the Oakland shows were very intense and emotional. I'm going to have to listen to the Aukland show again. I seem to recall that he played "Adore" as well and said something like "All you have to do is smile that smile and you've got me. Whatever you want you can have." or something similar. I thought he sounded so sweet there.

Was the comment during Adore during the Oakland show or the Auckland show? He plays the song at the second Auckland show. I've only heard the first show w/ FIML. I'll have to listen to the second. Going to listen to the full Oakland show now too

I think it was Auckland but it's possible it was at one of the Sydney Opera House shows. I've listened to so many they all kind of run together lol. I've listened to the Sydney State Theater shows the most. He actually seemed to be in a pretty good mood for them. I thought what he said at the end of Little Red Corvette was hilarious. "Look at that dress. You know you can't breathe. No,No I'm not complaining! I'm just saying you can't breathe." He had the audience cracking up. The Oakland show was beautiful. He seemed very real in that one. I'm listening to Aukland now.

pinkcashmere23 said:

violetcrush said:

Was the comment during Adore during the Oakland show or the Auckland show? He plays the song at the second Auckland show. I've only heard the first show w/ FIML. I'll have to listen to the second. Going to listen to the full Oakland show now too

I think it was Auckland but it's possible it was at one of the Sydney Opera House shows. I've listened to so many they all kind of run together lol. I've listened to the Sydney State Theater shows the most. He actually seemed to be in a pretty good mood for them. I thought what he said at the end of Little Red Corvette was hilarious. "Look at that dress. You know you can't breathe. No,No I'm not complaining! I'm just saying you can't breathe." He had the audience cracking up. The Oakland show was beautiful. He seemed very real in that one. I'm listening to Aukland now.

Oh good! About to listen to the Oakland shows. I'll have to check out the Sydney ones too. Can't thank you enough for that hook-up

violetcrush said:

pinkcashmere23 said:

I think it was Auckland but it's possible it was at one of the Sydney Opera House shows. I've listened to so many they all kind of run together lol. I've listened to the Sydney State Theater shows the most. He actually seemed to be in a pretty good mood for them. I thought what he said at the end of Little Red Corvette was hilarious. "Look at that dress. You know you can't breathe. No,No I'm not complaining! I'm just saying you can't breathe." He had the audience cracking up. The Oakland show was beautiful. He seemed very real in that one. I'm listening to Aukland now.

Oh good! About to listen to the Oakland shows. I'll have to check out the Sydney ones too. Can't thank you enough for that hook-up

You're welcome! His performance of NC2U was beautiful for Auckland and I love "Love Thy Will Be Done" as well. All of the Sydney shows were excellent! The full show at the Opera House was especially beautiful. I haven't gotten to it yet but I seem to recall him talking about a young girl staring at him during the Auckland ahow and saying that he wasn't mad at her because when he saw Joni Mitchell in concert for the first time,he stared at her the same way lol. He seemed to be in a good mood for the shows in Auckland too.

pinkcashmere23 said:

violetcrush said:

Oh good! About to listen to the Oakland shows. I'll have to check out the Sydney ones too. Can't thank you enough for that hook-up

You're welcome! His performance of NC2U was beautiful for Auckland and I love "Love Thy Will Be Done" as well. All of the Sydney shows were excellent! The full show at the Opera House was especially beautiful. I haven't gotten to it yet but I seem to recall him talking about a young girl staring at him during the Auckland ahow and saying that he wasn't mad at her because when he saw Joni Mitchell in concert for the first time,he stared at her the same way lol. He seemed to be in a good mood for the shows in Auckland too.

Did you listen to the 1st Auckland show too? With the lyric change on FIML...

violetcrush said:

pinkcashmere23 said:

You're welcome! His performance of NC2U was beautiful for Auckland and I love "Love Thy Will Be Done" as well. All of the Sydney shows were excellent! The full show at the Opera House was especially beautiful. I haven't gotten to it yet but I seem to recall him talking about a young girl staring at him during the Auckland ahow and saying that he wasn't mad at her because when he saw Joni Mitchell in concert for the first time,he stared at her the same way lol. He seemed to be in a good mood for the shows in Auckland too.

Did you listen to the 1st Auckland show too? With the lyric change on FIML...

I heard him perform it but I didn't hear that part. I'm going to listen to it again with headphones so I can hear everything since the audience was a bit loud. That recording isn't as clear as some of the others are. I believe that he did FIML at the shows in Oakland as well.

pinkcashmere23 said:

violetcrush said:

Did you listen to the 1st Auckland show too? With the lyric change on FIML...

I heard him perform it but I didn't hear that part. I'm going to listen to it again with headphones so I can hear everything since the audience was a bit loud. That recording isn't as clear as some of the others are. I believe that he did FIML at the shows in Oakland as well.

No FIML at the Oakland shows - he did 3 there - 2 on 2/28 and 1 on 3/4.

*

For the 1st Auckland show he changes the "I want to keep you for the rest of my life" to " I love you for the rest of my life"

violetcrush said:

pinkcashmere23 said:

I heard him perform it but I didn't hear that part. I'm going to listen to it again with headphones so I can hear everything since the audience was a bit loud. That recording isn't as clear as some of the others are. I believe that he did FIML at the shows in Oakland as well.

No FIML at the Oakland shows - he did 3 there - 2 on 2/28 and 1 on 3/4.

*

For the 1st Auckland show he changes the "I want to keep you for the rest of my life" to " I love you for the rest of my life"

Ohh ok. I know he performed it at another show but I can't recall which. Interesting lyric change. I got a little side tracked listening to Luxembourg 2011 but I'll go back the Auckland show after and listen again. I sent you an orgnote concerning the Sydney State House shows.

pinkcashmere23 said:

violetcrush said:

No FIML at the Oakland shows - he did 3 there - 2 on 2/28 and 1 on 3/4.

*

For the 1st Auckland show he changes the "I want to keep you for the rest of my life" to " I love you for the rest of my life"

Ohh ok. I know he performed it at another show but I can't recall which. Interesting lyric change. I got a little side tracked listening to Luxembourg 2011 but I'll go back the Auckland show after and listen again. I sent you an orgnote concerning the Sydney State House shows.

Thank you!!!!!!!!!!

violetcrush said:

pinkcashmere23 said:

Ohh ok. I know he performed it at another show but I can't recall which. Interesting lyric change. I got a little side tracked listening to Luxembourg 2011 but I'll go back the Auckland show after and listen again. I sent you an orgnote concerning the Sydney State House shows.

Thank you!!!!!!!!!!

You're welcome!

VioletCrush said:

luvgirl said:

VioletCrush said:

Susan Rogers was not in any way stating that she was putting herself in the position to be the "preserver" of his music - although she would have been very qualified to do the job. She was simply discussing her concern over the condition of the tapes in that Vault - as many of his Engineers and associates were back then. It was confirmed by one of the Engineers in the 90's that there had been a pretty extensive flood in the Vault, and the mitigation to avoid permanent damage was minimal. Prince's comments were of a more spiteful and somewhat paranoid nature in that interview. * I think you are truly "romanticizing' the nature and events of Prince's relationship with Vanity. I'm not sure where you get a "2-3 yr" relationship, as she met him at the AMAs on January 25th 1982, and she left the camp in July of 1983 - so, not quite 2 years. They had a volatile relationship from the beginning, which has been well documented. As Prince himself stated, "She and I would fight. She was very headstrong ’cause she knew she was the finest woman in the world. She never missed an opportunity to tell you that.” Prince was still with Susan Moonsie when Vanity arrived in MN, and he also began the affair with Jill Jones, as well as, hooking up with many women on the road. Vanity would be with other men in order to compete with and also to ignite jealousy. Prince was no different - or possibly even worse because he was younger - in that relationship than any other he had going forward. Prince was so in love with her, and yet he creates a sexual persona for her (originally wanting to call her Vageena), requires her to perform in lingerie and sing songs about sex, and writes songs like "Wonderful Ass" about her. I would say that indicates a strong physical/sexual attraction much more so than a deep love. I have stated before that I have no doubt that Prince was fully attracted to her, and they had an intense physical relationship for awhile. * It's clear now (even though it's also been documented in prior Biographies) that Prince began heavily pursuing Susannah just after he met her at the WB Christmas party, which would have been Dec or early Jan of 1983. The fact that he chose to sleep on the couch in their tiny house rather than stay in his own hotel room during his visits to LA during that time makes it obvious that he was smitten with Susannah, and wanted to be around her. Based on Susannah's account of Vanity's remarks to her on the day she walked into the warehouse in July on Vanity's last day also indicates that Vanity knew of Prince's interest in her by that point ("oh, it's YOU again. You're going to have so much fun here..."). Barry Gordy did not "swoop in and steal Vanity" from Prince - that is just a ridiculous "fairytale" remark. Vanity knew exactly what she was doing, and no one could blame her for her decision. She wanted more money, and did not want to be moved down to the "lower rung" on the ladder with regard to a relationship with Prince. She wanted control of her career too. Vanity herself has spoken about this in numerous interviews. You had stated she walked away from Prince for good, however, there is a YT video of her interview in 1990 on the Regis & Kathy Lee show where she brings out a sculpture she had just finished for him, and she was discussing giving it to him. I'm sure she was another one who was in the "mix" with him past the time she officially left the camp. * Regarding TBO - Prince himself was a bit contradictory about the inspiration of the song in the interview. He first says, "If they look at it, it’s very obvious. “Do you want him or do you want me,” that was written for that scene in Purple Rain specifically. Where Morris [Day] would be sitting with [Apollonia], and there’d be this back and forth." Then later he says, "Any ballad like that, you know it’s not going to be about anything, uh, what’s the word? Carnal. It’s not gonna even be based in flesh. Regardless of what I’m singing about, it’s all spiritual. This is a channel. I’m trying to do “Somewhere over the Rainbow.” It’s not about somebody human that I’m looking at right now." Those two statements are contradictory, as well as, the fact that he's not looking at somebody human for his ballads, because based on the "spiritual" explanation, when asked who had inspired FIML his answer would not have been "Susannah". * The "do you want me, or do you want him" lyric and the frustration of that situation is relating to romantic relationships - not Vanity choosing Barry Gordy over Prince - come on!!! that idea is just absurd. That lyric is clearly referencing his frustration that this girl is in a relationship with someone else, but also wants to be with him, and he wants her to choose between them -"don't make me waste my time, don't make me lose my mind, baby". Susannah, (and the entire camp during that time), stated he had been pursuing her for a long time before she finally started the relationship with him (Winter of 1983). So it would have been 8 months between the time that they met and when he recorded the song. I would say that is ample time to build up an intense frustration about not being able to have a relationship with someone who you really want - especially for Prince, who was accustomed to getting most women he wanted by that point. * Look, if it is confirmed that Susannah was not in a relationship with another guy during the time that he was heavily pursuing her then I 100% agree that the only inspiration for those lyrics would have been only the scene in the film. * Luvgirl said: I think it's sad as well that Prince died alone. I wish he was still here surrounded by people who genuinely adored him, but even from that comment you noted, he seemed to be speaking a true feeling that he made sure was an implementation in his life up until the end. * Wow - that's what you got from his comment - that he was speaking a true feeling?? I didn't get that at all. What I read was another defense mechanism and random analogy used for why he was so alone at that time. To me, you can easily read between the lines there. The reality was that he could not let his guard down and allow people to get close enough to have long lasting and "real" relationships with him. That is the saddest part to me.

What happened??? I thought we were speculating?? You didn't like my speculation?? We were doing good for a while you and I. I guess I should thread lightly now and this should be my last reply to you before you start posting naked pictures of Denise like you did in our last debate about a song... Where did I say that Susan Rogers STATED that she was putting herself as preserver? Did you not say that she was concerned about his recordings because nothing was being done to preserve it? I'm the one who used back the same wording you used and said Prince did not want Susan Rogers worrying about or initiating herself as preserver.. Bottom line, he was very possessive over his music and it seemed he felt she was obsessing over his recordings, so he spoke out about it. I explained how Denise and Prince's story from that era could easily fit into the scenario of those lyrics we were discussing and you called that romanticizing their relationship? What have you been doing? Are you the only one who gets to romanticize around here? Everything I stated apart from my own thoughts about Prince and Denise's relationship are facts. Not the speculative and imaginative folk tale you conjure up. No matter how repulsive Prince's treatment, you still find a way to romanticize his relationship with Susannah. Even going as far as to say his repulsive actions towards her didn't matter because those speculative songs you thought up somehow makes up for the nastiness and heartache he put put her through. I gotta tell you. It's quite demeaning to hear as a woman that his treatment of her was somehow nullified because you think he wrote some songs for her. Everything you've mentioned that Prince put Vanity through with other women, he put Susannah through just as hard. Sheila E, (who he was also in a serious relationship with at the same time he was with Susannah) Jill Jones, and countless others as well that he wasn't even being discreet with. Where do you get this bravado in such nastiness? The song Wonderful Ass is beloved and electric, but Prince has written many other songs for Denise. The Beautiful Ones, Strange Relationship, Purple Rain, Girl, and many more you wouldn't know about because you are way too wrapped up in Susannah-Ville. Vanity was his muse just as Susannah was his muse. The fact that you have to try to make it seem like Wonderful Ass was the only song he wrote about her says a lot... Lol. How old are you? " Says who? You? Prove it. You make scenarios up yourself and talk about it like its fact. I've noticed that about you now. In prior interviews, Susannah stated that she met Prince after the 1999 tour when Wendy joined the band. Which coincides with what Wendy and other band members have said in countless books. In this interview, Susannah couldn't remember anything whatsoever in regards to the dates. She literally said that. So please tell me where it's said that Prince started pursuing Susannah as early as 82 of December or 83 of January for 8 months before It was official? (Keep in mind...while he was on the 1999 tour) Please... Another crackpot theory. You're totally making that up from your own speculations. Remember when Susannah said in that interview that she first met Prince at Dez Dickerson's birthday party??? (August 83) Check this out: "I'm a twin, so it's very difficult for me to be any distance from Susannah for any length of time, says her sister, Wendy. So when I joined Prince's band, Susannah would visit me in Minneapolis, and that's when Prince met her. As a matter of fact, he met her at a party at Dez Dickerson's house- the guy I replaced in the band. Remember that Lisa? We were like oh My God, Prince is outside with Susannah!" ~ Wendy Melvoin (Purple Reign, pg 163) "

Regarding TBO - Prince himself was a bit contradictory about the inspiration of the song in the interview. "

67 days before Prince passed away, he laid it down once and for all who TBO was about, backing up that statement in Ebony. No contradiction.

Luvgirl - you and I are in complete agreement with regard to how Prince treated the women he was with in relationships. He was not monogamous with any of them, and he did not treat any of them the way a loving partner should. However, it is clear that he was pursuing Susannah by early '83. Susannah has been clear on that in every discussion she has had, and it has been written in several reputable books and discussed in earlier interviews - here are some:

*

Alan Light's book - The Making Of Purple Rain - "Wendy and Lisa recall that Susannah's visit for the First Avenue show marked the point at which Prince's romantic interest in her became evident"- meaning it became open and obvious to others in the camp. "He had been courting her like a Hollywood suitor in a Hollywood romance, and would send flowers to her door every day for a year." Prince was not obvious or open with his interest in Susannah when he was staying out in LA, as she has confirmed during her interviews. She knew he was interested, but he wasn't openly showing that to others at that time.

*

Wendy and Lisa have also talked about Prince staying at their house prior to PR - their interview with Out magazine in 2009: "So Prince knew the full extent of your relationship?
Wendy: He would spend the night at our house. He was very much aware of it." They also discussed this during their interview with Questlove.

Susannah's interview for the Beautiful Nights blog in 2013:

*

Susannah clearly knows and remembers the time frame of her relationship with Prince. Is she going to get specific dates correct off the top of her head (ie: the date of Bobby Z's wedding)? No, of course not, as it took place 30+ years ago. I certainly can't remember specific dates for things that occured for me in 1985, however, I do have a general timeline of when and how things happened in my life that particular year. In the interview she was trying to remember exactly when she visited the set with Wendy when Prince was performing 1999 and Little Red Corvette - she stated it was not long after the Christmas party. Princevault shows that they did the Solid Gold shoot for 1999 December 14th, 1982, so that is most likely what she was remembering, as it was shot in LA.

*

The difference with mine and your "speculation" of at least part of the inspiration for TBO is that mine has been printed in just about every Biography out there. Duane Tudahl's book:

Susan Rogers "I was told by David Leonard, when he and I were listening back to a tape of "The Beautiful Ones", and David said I know who this is about. Susannah. And he told me the story of how Prince loved Wendy, she was a great guitar player and a great personality, but when he met her twin Sister Susannah he was absolutely smitten. Prince started sending her flowers every single day. And he sent her flowers delivered to her door every day for almost a year.

*

AGAIN, I am not arguing that Vanity was not the inspiration for the song. I just don't think she was the only one - unless the story of Susannah having a boyfriend when she met Prince is not the case - if that's not true then I would say that chunk of the lyric is only related to the film.

*

So now the song Purple Rain was inspired by Vanity??? Really??? When was this confirmed by anyone - especially Prince?? This was the song that tied the entire film together. Remember, the largest storylines in the film were the family drama and the battle of the bands. That song was an anthemic "let me take you higher" song - not a ballad or love song. I never said Prince did not write other songs inspired by Vanity - I used Wonderful Ass as an example, because that song has been confirmed by the camp. However, if you look at most of the songs he was writing during that time (1982-1983) most were songs of a sexual nature -not deeper love songs or ballads. LRC, Automatic, Lady Cab Driver, International Lover, Let's Pretend We're Married - and all of the V6 songs - Nasty Girl, Wet Dream, Drive Me Wild, Bite The Beat, etc. He was focused on sex at that point. Even the song Girl, as you mentioned, is a song about sex - look at the lyrics. He's not singing about emotions in these songs - it's completely physical and sexual.

*

I am basing the depth of the relationships on the songs that the women inspired, and also the overall music that was being recorded during their time with him.

[Edited 1/25/19 22:53pm]

[Edited 1/25/19 22:53pm]

violetcrush said:

luvgirl said:

VioletCrush said: 67 days before Prince passed away, he laid it down once and for all who TBO was about, backing up that statement in Ebony. No contradiction.

Luvgirl - you and I are in complete agreement with regard to how Prince treated the women he was with in relationships. He was not monogamous with any of them, and he did not treat any of them the way a loving partner should. However, it is clear that he was pursuing Susannah by early '83. Susannah has been clear on that in every discussion she has had, and it has been written in several reputable books and discussed in earlier interviews - here are some:

*

Alan Light's book - The Making Of Purple Rain - "Wendy and Lisa recall that Susannah's visit for the First Avenue show marked the point at which Prince's romantic interest in her became evident"- meaning it became open and obvious to others in the camp. "He had been courting her like a Hollywood suitor in a Hollywood romance, and would send flowers to her door every day for a year." Prince was not obvious or open with his interest in Susannah when he was staying out in LA, as she has confirmed during her interviews. She knew he was interested, but he wasn't openly showing that to others at that time.

*

Wendy and Lisa have also talked about Prince staying at their house prior to PR - their interview with Out magazine in 2009: "So Prince knew the full extent of your relationship?
Wendy: He would spend the night at our house. He was very much aware of it." They also discussed this during their interview with Questlove.

Susannah's interview for the Beautiful Nights blog in 2013:

I started working for Prince "when I was 19. He had been spending a lot of time at my house, because, Wendy, Lisa and I were roommates. After high school, we always lived together. Lisa had gotten the gig with Prince and, when he would come into town, he would stay with us.

I was really young, right out of high school, and I was working for David Geffen as the receptionist at (Geffen Records). I had just done the audition for (Jones) and Wendy wanted to play Prince my demo of the Aretha Franklin track. All I could say was “Please don't play it for him. Oh my God!”

I went into my bedroom. It was 500 square feet, so, the bedroom wasn't very far from the kitchen. They were all sitting at the kitchen table listening to my track. Then the next thing I knew, Prince said “Why don't you come work with us? You should be with our group of people and you know this is where you belong.” I said " You know you're absolutely right.” Susannah gave this information again during her first interview with Toure.

*

Susannah clearly knows and remembers the time frame of her relationship with Prince. Is she going to get specific dates correct off the top of her head (ie: the date of Bobby Z's wedding)? No, of course not, as it took place 30+ years ago. I certainly can't remember specific dates for things that occured for me in 1985, however, I do have a general timeline of when and how things happened in my life that particular year. In the interview she was trying to remember exactly when she visited the set with Wendy when Prince was performing 1999 and Little Red Corvette - she stated it was not long after the Christmas party. Princevault shows that they did the Solid Gold shoot for 1999 December 14th, 1982, so that is most likely what she was remembering, as it was shot in LA.

*

The difference with mine and your "speculation" of at least part of the inspiration for TBO is that mine has been printed in just about every Biography out there. Duane Tudahl's book:

Susan Rogers "I was told by David Leonard, when he and I were listening back to a tape of "The Beautiful Ones", and David said I know who this is about. Susannah. And he told me the story of how Prince loved Wendy, she was a great guitar player and a great personality, but when he met her twin Sister Susannah he was absolutely smitten. Prince started sending her flowers every single day. And he sent her flowers delivered to her door every day for almost a year.

*

AGAIN, I am not arguing that Vanity was not the inspiration for the song. I just don't think she was the only one - unless the story of Susannah having a boyfriend when she met Prince is not the case - if that's not true then I would say that chunk of the lyric is only related to the film.

*

So now the song Purple Rain was inspired by Vanity??? Really??? When was this confirmed by anyone - especially Prince?? This was the song that tied the entire film together. Remember, the largest storylines in the film were the family drama and the battle of the bands. That song was an anthemic "let me take you higher" song - not a ballad or love song. I never said Prince did not write other songs inspired by Vanity - I used Wonderful Ass as an example, because that song has been confirmed by the camp. However, if you look at most of the songs he was writing during that time (1982-1983) most were songs of a sexual nature -not deeper love songs or ballads. LRC, Automatic, Lady Cab Driver, International Lover, Let's Pretend We're Married - and all of the V6 songs - Nasty Girl, Wet Dream, Drive Me Wild, Bite The Beat, etc. He was focused on sex at that point. Even the song Girl, as you mentioned, is a song about sex - look at the lyrics. He's not singing about emotions in these songs - it's completely physical and sexual.

*

I am basing the depth of the relationships on the songs that the women inspired, and also the overall music that was being recorded during their time with him.

[Edited 1/25/19 22:53pm]

[Edited 1/25/19 22:53pm]

I can see how TBO's was possibly inspired by both his relationship with Susannah and Vanity's departure. I hadn't read that about Prince sending flowers to Susannah every day for nearly a year. Wow! He was determined lol.

pinkcashmere23 said:

violetcrush said:

Luvgirl - you and I are in complete agreement with regard to how Prince treated the women he was with in relationships. He was not monogamous with any of them, and he did not treat any of them the way a loving partner should. However, it is clear that he was pursuing Susannah by early '83. Susannah has been clear on that in every discussion she has had, and it has been written in several reputable books and discussed in earlier interviews - here are some:

*

Alan Light's book - The Making Of Purple Rain - "Wendy and Lisa recall that Susannah's visit for the First Avenue show marked the point at which Prince's romantic interest in her became evident"- meaning it became open and obvious to others in the camp. "He had been courting her like a Hollywood suitor in a Hollywood romance, and would send flowers to her door every day for a year." Prince was not obvious or open with his interest in Susannah when he was staying out in LA, as she has confirmed during her interviews. She knew he was interested, but he wasn't openly showing that to others at that time.

*

Wendy and Lisa have also talked about Prince staying at their house prior to PR - their interview with Out magazine in 2009: "So Prince knew the full extent of your relationship?
Wendy: He would spend the night at our house. He was very much aware of it." They also discussed this during their interview with Questlove.

Susannah's interview for the Beautiful Nights blog in 2013:

I started working for Prince "when I was 19. He had been spending a lot of time at my house, because, Wendy, Lisa and I were roommates. After high school, we always lived together. Lisa had gotten the gig with Prince and, when he would come into town, he would stay with us.

I was really young, right out of high school, and I was working for David Geffen as the receptionist at (Geffen Records). I had just done the audition for (Jones) and Wendy wanted to play Prince my demo of the Aretha Franklin track. All I could say was “Please don't play it for him. Oh my God!”

I went into my bedroom. It was 500 square feet, so, the bedroom wasn't very far from the kitchen. They were all sitting at the kitchen table listening to my track. Then the next thing I knew, Prince said “Why don't you come work with us? You should be with our group of people and you know this is where you belong.” I said " You know you're absolutely right.” Susannah gave this information again during her first interview with Toure.

*

Susannah clearly knows and remembers the time frame of her relationship with Prince. Is she going to get specific dates correct off the top of her head (ie: the date of Bobby Z's wedding)? No, of course not, as it took place 30+ years ago. I certainly can't remember specific dates for things that occured for me in 1985, however, I do have a general timeline of when and how things happened in my life that particular year. In the interview she was trying to remember exactly when she visited the set with Wendy when Prince was performing 1999 and Little Red Corvette - she stated it was not long after the Christmas party. Princevault shows that they did the Solid Gold shoot for 1999 December 14th, 1982, so that is most likely what she was remembering, as it was shot in LA.

*

The difference with mine and your "speculation" of at least part of the inspiration for TBO is that mine has been printed in just about every Biography out there. Duane Tudahl's book:

Susan Rogers "I was told by David Leonard, when he and I were listening back to a tape of "The Beautiful Ones", and David said I know who this is about. Susannah. And he told me the story of how Prince loved Wendy, she was a great guitar player and a great personality, but when he met her twin Sister Susannah he was absolutely smitten. Prince started sending her flowers every single day. And he sent her flowers delivered to her door every day for almost a year.

*

AGAIN, I am not arguing that Vanity was not the inspiration for the song. I just don't think she was the only one - unless the story of Susannah having a boyfriend when she met Prince is not the case - if that's not true then I would say that chunk of the lyric is only related to the film.

*

So now the song Purple Rain was inspired by Vanity??? Really??? When was this confirmed by anyone - especially Prince?? This was the song that tied the entire film together. Remember, the largest storylines in the film were the family drama and the battle of the bands. That song was an anthemic "let me take you higher" song - not a ballad or love song. I never said Prince did not write other songs inspired by Vanity - I used Wonderful Ass as an example, because that song has been confirmed by the camp. However, if you look at most of the songs he was writing during that time (1982-1983) most were songs of a sexual nature -not deeper love songs or ballads. LRC, Automatic, Lady Cab Driver, International Lover, Let's Pretend We're Married - and all of the V6 songs - Nasty Girl, Wet Dream, Drive Me Wild, Bite The Beat, etc. He was focused on sex at that point. Even the song Girl, as you mentioned, is a song about sex - look at the lyrics. He's not singing about emotions in these songs - it's completely physical and sexual.

*

I am basing the depth of the relationships on the songs that the women inspired, and also the overall music that was being recorded during their time with him.

[Edited 1/25/19 22:53pm]

[Edited 1/25/19 22:53pm]

I can see how TBO's was possibly inspired by both his relationship with Susannah and Vanity's departure. I hadn't read that about Prince sending flowers to Susannah every day for nearly a year. Wow! He was determined lol.

Yes, the flowers must have started soon after they met at the WB Christmas party.

*

Here are Susannah's comments to Duane Tudahl:

*

"He was recording for Purple Rain, and he was falling in love with me. And I was in the studio constantly with him. This was so funny, but he would send flowers to the house where Wendy and I and Lisa lived every day for a year and a half. It wasn't a day that went by where there wasn't a huge thing of flowers. Now it started to look like a funeral home because there was no way to keep up with the amount of flowers. There'd be dead ones, there'd be live ones, there'd be pretty ones, there'd by ugly ones and it was just, "where are we going to put all this stuff?".

violetcrush said:

pinkcashmere23 said:

I can see how TBO's was possibly inspired by both his relationship with Susannah and Vanity's departure. I hadn't read that about Prince sending flowers to Susannah every day for nearly a year. Wow! He was determined lol.

Yes, the flowers must have started soon after they met at the WB Christmas party.

*

Here are Susannah's comments to Duane Tudahl:

*

"He was recording for Purple Rain, and he was falling in love with me. And I was in the studio constantly with him. This was so funny, but he would send flowers to the house where Wendy and I and Lisa lived every day for a year and a half. It wasn't a day that went by where there wasn't a huge thing of flowers. Now it started to look like a funeral home because there was no way to keep up with the amount of flowers. There'd be dead ones, there'd be live ones, there'd be pretty ones, there'd by ugly ones and it was just, "where are we going to put all this stuff?".

That makes sense and he was obviously determined to win her over. He could be very romantic. I love Susannah's comment

pinkcashmere23 said:

violetcrush said:

Yes, the flowers must have started soon after they met at the WB Christmas party.

*

Here are Susannah's comments to Duane Tudahl:

*

"He was recording for Purple Rain, and he was falling in love with me. And I was in the studio constantly with him. This was so funny, but he would send flowers to the house where Wendy and I and Lisa lived every day for a year and a half. It wasn't a day that went by where there wasn't a huge thing of flowers. Now it started to look like a funeral home because there was no way to keep up with the amount of flowers. There'd be dead ones, there'd be live ones, there'd be pretty ones, there'd by ugly ones and it was just, "where are we going to put all this stuff?".

That makes sense and he was obviously determined to win her over. He could be very romantic. I love Susannah's comment

Yes, I love her conversations. I think it's adorable how he was doing these things to try to win her over - flowers, the bed, inviting her to the studio. Very sweet. Unfortunately, the romantic gestures didn't match the relationship behavior

violetcrush said:

pinkcashmere23 said:

That makes sense and he was obviously determined to win her over. He could be very romantic. I love Susannah's comment

Yes, I love her conversations. I think it's adorable how he was doing these things to try to win her over - flowers, the bed, inviting her to the studio. Very sweet. Unfortunately, the romantic gestures didn't match the relationship behavior

Yes,she really needs to write a book. She has a way with words. I do too! He could be very sweet it seems and I love to read stories that display that side of his personality. That's unfortunately true. I was just listening to 'Big Tall Wall' and he came across so frustrated and angry in that one. The music that their relationship inspired is some of his most heartfelt and intense imo.

pinkcashmere23 said:

violetcrush said:

Yes, I love her conversations. I think it's adorable how he was doing these things to try to win her over - flowers, the bed, inviting her to the studio. Very sweet. Unfortunately, the romantic gestures didn't match the relationship behavior

Yes,she really needs to write a book. She has a way with words. I do too! He could be very sweet it seems and I love to read stories that display that side of his personality. That's unfortunately true. I was just listening to 'Big Tall Wall' and he came across so frustrated and angry in that one. The music that their relationship inspired is some of his most heartfelt and intense imo.

Yes, he seemed to sort of "lose it" emotionally at times in their relationship.

*

Here is the discussion of Big Tall Wall in Matt Thorne's Biography:

*

Matt Thorne: "I felt embarrassed about bringing up Big Tall Wall in front of Susannah Melvoin. It was as if I'd dug out an intimate love letter Prince had written for her, filled with private detail, and asked her what she'd done to inspire it. Talking to Wendy and Lisa previously, I'd discovered that they'd heard out-takes, but didn't necessarily have copies of them. And although I assumed that Susannah would have wanted to hear every song Prince had allegedly written about her, I had no idea if he'd played them to her at the time, and if not, whether she would have tracked them down. Susannah told me he hadn't played her Big Tall Wall at the time - and she hadn't heard it in many years - but it was clear from her reaction that she still remembered the impact the lyric had made on her."

*

There were a bunch during that time - Go, Sexual Suicide, Last Heart. Seems she had him on a bit of an emotional rollercoaster as well - at least based on the songs

violetcrush said:

pinkcashmere23 said:

Yes,she really needs to write a book. She has a way with words. I do too! He could be very sweet it seems and I love to read stories that display that side of his personality. That's unfortunately true. I was just listening to 'Big Tall Wall' and he came across so frustrated and angry in that one. The music that their relationship inspired is some of his most heartfelt and intense imo.

Yes, he seemed to sort of "lose it" emotionally at times in their relationship.

*

Here is the discussion of Big Tall Wall in Matt Thorne's Biography:

*

Matt Thorne: "I felt embarrassed about bringing up Big Tall Wall in front of Susannah Melvoin. It was as if I'd dug out an intimate love letter Prince had written for her, filled with private detail, and asked her what she'd done to inspire it. Talking to Wendy and Lisa previously, I'd discovered that they'd heard out-takes, but didn't necessarily have copies of them. And although I assumed that Susannah would have wanted to hear every song Prince had allegedly written about her, I had no idea if he'd played them to her at the time, and if not, whether she would have tracked them down. Susannah told me he hadn't played her Big Tall Wall at the time - and she hadn't heard it in many years - but it was clear from her reaction that she still remembered the impact the lyric had made on her."

*

There were a bunch during that time - Go, Sexual Suicide, Last Heart. Seems she had him on a bit of an emotional rollercoaster as well - at least based on the songs

Yes,he really did. Thanks for sharing that bit about the song. I can imagine that it must have stung a bit for Susannah to hear some of those words,knowing they were directed at her. It did seem that she had him on an emotional rollercoaster from the songs written back then. I'm listening to her interview for the auction at the moment. I had the one with I believe,Andrea Swennson on my computer but lost it when it was wiped clean by an installation of Windows 10. Do you know if that is still available?

pinkcashmere23 said:

violetcrush said:

Yes, he seemed to sort of "lose it" emotionally at times in their relationship.

*

Here is the discussion of Big Tall Wall in Matt Thorne's Biography:

*

Matt Thorne: "I felt embarrassed about bringing up Big Tall Wall in front of Susannah Melvoin. It was as if I'd dug out an intimate love letter Prince had written for her, filled with private detail, and asked her what she'd done to inspire it. Talking to Wendy and Lisa previously, I'd discovered that they'd heard out-takes, but didn't necessarily have copies of them. And although I assumed that Susannah would have wanted to hear every song Prince had allegedly written about her, I had no idea if he'd played them to her at the time, and if not, whether she would have tracked them down. Susannah told me he hadn't played her Big Tall Wall at the time - and she hadn't heard it in many years - but it was clear from her reaction that she still remembered the impact the lyric had made on her."

*

There were a bunch during that time - Go, Sexual Suicide, Last Heart. Seems she had him on a bit of an emotional rollercoaster as well - at least based on the songs

Yes,he really did. Thanks for sharing that bit about the song. I can imagine that it must have stung a bit for Susannah to hear some of those words,knowing they were directed at her. It did seem that she had him on an emotional rollercoaster from the songs written back then. I'm listening to her interview for the auction at the moment. I had the one with I believe,Andrea Swennson on my computer but lost it when it was wiped clean by an installation of Windows 10. Do you know if that is still available?

Oh, the RR Auction interview is great too. She explains the glitter wand and how it became the canes he used in '86 - and he's also using it on TV interviews in '98. I love the leg warmer story too. That would have been during the shooting of the film. I enjoyed the ballet story too.

*

I haven't heard the one with Andrea Swennson. Do you know when that was done?

violetcrush said:

pinkcashmere23 said:

Yes,he really did. Thanks for sharing that bit about the song. I can imagine that it must have stung a bit for Susannah to hear some of those words,knowing they were directed at her. It did seem that she had him on an emotional rollercoaster from the songs written back then. I'm listening to her interview for the auction at the moment. I had the one with I believe,Andrea Swennson on my computer but lost it when it was wiped clean by an installation of Windows 10. Do you know if that is still available?

Oh, the RR Auction interview is great too. She explains the glitter wand and how it became the canes he used in '86 - and he's also using it on TV interviews in '98. I love the leg warmer story too. That would have been during the shooting of the film. I enjoyed the ballet story too.

*

I haven't heard the one with Andrea Swennson. Do you know when that was done?

Yes. I'm at that point in the interview now. She had previously talked about having the lyrics for 'Mountains' in her possession. She shared some great stories in that interview. She spoke with Andrea in November 2016 and it is still available. https://blog.thecurrent.o...nd-coffee/

[Edited 1/26/19 11:57am]

pinkcashmere23 said:

violetcrush said:

Oh, the RR Auction interview is great too. She explains the glitter wand and how it became the canes he used in '86 - and he's also using it on TV interviews in '98. I love the leg warmer story too. That would have been during the shooting of the film. I enjoyed the ballet story too.

*

I haven't heard the one with Andrea Swennson. Do you know when that was done?

Yes. I'm at that point in the interview now. She had previously talked about having the lyrics for 'Mountains' in her possession. She shared some great stories in that interview. She spoke with Andrea in November 2016 and it is still available. https://blog.thecurrent.o...nd-coffee/

[Edited 1/26/19 11:57am]

Ah yes, I had heard/read this one too. Thanks for posting though!!

violetcrush said:

pinkcashmere23 said:

Yes. I'm at that point in the interview now. She had previously talked about having the lyrics for 'Mountains' in her possession. She shared some great stories in that interview. She spoke with Andrea in November 2016 and it is still available. https://blog.thecurrent.o...nd-coffee/

[Edited 1/26/19 11:57am]

Ah yes, I had heard/read this one too. Thanks for posting though!!

You're welcome! I really enjoyed listening to that one. She's a great storyteller! Wish the interview had been longer.

pinkcashmere23 said:

violetcrush said:

Ah yes, I had heard/read this one too. Thanks for posting though!!

You're welcome! I really enjoyed listening to that one. She's a great storyteller! Wish the interview had been longer.

Yes, she had a very short amount of time to tell some of the story. She was able to add detail, and fill in the gaps with the two Toure interviews.

violetcrush said:

pinkcashmere23 said:

You're welcome! I really enjoyed listening to that one. She's a great storyteller! Wish the interview had been longer.

Yes, she had a very short amount of time to tell some of the story. She was able to add detail, and fill in the gaps with the two Toure interviews.

True. I thought Andrea asked some good questions about her musical upbringing and background. I enjoyed hearing Susannah talk about the parties that her parents would throw with their musician friends. She was very antimated in this interview and I loved her narration,especially her telling of the background of Cynthia Roses's story.

pinkcashmere23 said:

violetcrush said:

Yes, she had a very short amount of time to tell some of the story. She was able to add detail, and fill in the gaps with the two Toure interviews.

True. I thought Andrea asked some good questions about her musical upbringing and background. I enjoyed hearing Susannah talk about the parties that her parents would throw with their musician friends. She was very antimated in this interview and I loved her narration,especially her telling of the background of Cynthia Roses's story.

Yes, Prince played the song during his piano sets througout the years, and often on the P&M tour, so it definitely meant something to him as well. Really sweet song.

violetcrush said:

pinkcashmere23 said:

True. I thought Andrea asked some good questions about her musical upbringing and background. I enjoyed hearing Susannah talk about the parties that her parents would throw with their musician friends. She was very antimated in this interview and I loved her narration,especially her telling of the background of Cynthia Roses's story.

Yes, Prince played the song during his piano sets througout the years, and often on the P&M tour, so it definitely meant something to him as well. Really sweet song.

Yes,it's one of my favorites. He conveyed the sweetness and innocence of Cynthia beautifully in the song. I love that he played it on the P&M tour! He played it often during the ONA tour as well.

pinkcashmere23 said:

violetcrush said:

Yes, Prince played the song during his piano sets througout the years, and often on the P&M tour, so it definitely meant something to him as well. Really sweet song.

Yes,it's one of my favorites. He conveyed the sweetness and innocence of Cynthia beautifully in the song. I love that he played it on the P&M tour! He played it often during the ONA tour as well.

Yes, and during the piano medley on the LoveSexy tour. The crowds always love it too.

*

Listening to the SOTT outtakes now, and Big Tall Wall just came on Only Prince...

violetcrush said:

pinkcashmere23 said:

Yes,it's one of my favorites. He conveyed the sweetness and innocence of Cynthia beautifully in the song. I love that he played it on the P&M tour! He played it often during the ONA tour as well.

Yes, and during the piano medley on the LoveSexy tour. The crowds always love it too.

*

Listening to the SOTT outtakes now, and Big Tall Wall just came on Only Prince...

Yes. I love the version of it on ONA Live! He put it in a medley that included 'Adore',''I wanna Be Your Lover',Condition of The Heart' 'TBO's','NC2U', "Free",'Sometimes It Snows In April' and Anna Stesia' Yep, Big Tall Wall is uniquely him!

[Edited 1/26/19 21:19pm]

luvgirl said:

Luvgirl - you and I are in complete agreement with regard to how Prince treated the women he was with in relationships. He was not monogamous with any of them, and he did not treat any of them the way a loving partner should. However, it is clear that he was pursuing Susannah by early '83. Susannah has been clear on that in every discussion she has had, and it has been written in several reputable books and discussed in earlier interviews - here are some: * Alan Light's book - The Making Of Purple Rain - "Wendy and Lisa recall that Susannah's visit for the First Avenue show marked the point at which Prince's romantic interest in her became evident"- meaning it became open and obvious to others in the camp. "He had been courting her like a Hollywood suitor in a Hollywood romance, and would send flowers to her door every day for a year." Prince was not obvious or open with his interest in Susannah when he was staying out in LA, as she has confirmed during her interviews. She knew he was interested, but he wasn't openly showing that to others at that time. * Wendy and Lisa have also talked about Prince staying at their house prior to PR - their interview with Out magazine in 2009: "So Prince knew the full extent of your relationship? Wendy: He would spend the night at our house. He was very much aware of it." They also discussed this during their interview with Questlove. Susannah's interview for the Beautiful Nights blog in 2013: I started working for Prince "when I was 19. He had been spending a lot of time at my house, because, Wendy, Lisa and I were roommates. After high school, we always lived together. Lisa had gotten the gig with Prince and, when he would come into town, he would stay with us. I was really young, right out of high school, and I was working for David Geffen as the receptionist at (Geffen Records). I had just done the audition for (Jones) and Wendy wanted to play Prince my demo of the Aretha Franklin track. All I could say was “Please don't play it for him. Oh my God!” I went into my bedroom. It was 500 square feet, so, the bedroom wasn't very far from the kitchen. They were all sitting at the kitchen table listening to my track. Then the next thing I knew, Prince said “Why don't you come work with us? You should be with our group of people and you know this is where you belong.” I said " You know you're absolutely right.” Susannah gave this information again during her first interview with Toure. * Susannah clearly knows and remembers the time frame of her relationship with Prince. Is she going to get specific dates correct off the top of her head (ie: the date of Bobby Z's wedding)? No, of course not, as it took place 30+ years ago. I certainly can't remember specific dates for things that occured for me in 1985, however, I do have a general timeline of when and how things happened in my life that particular year. In the interview she was trying to remember exactly when she visited the set with Wendy when Prince was performing 1999 and Little Red Corvette - she stated it was not long after the Christmas party. Princevault shows that they did the Solid Gold shoot for 1999 December 14th, 1982, so that is most likely what she was remembering, as it was shot in LA. * The difference with mine and your "speculation" of at least part of the inspiration for TBO is that mine has been printed in just about every Biography out there. Duane Tudahl's book: Susan Rogers "I was told by David Leonard, when he and I were listening back to a tape of "The Beautiful Ones", and David said I know who this is about. Susannah. And he told me the story of how Prince loved Wendy, she was a great guitar player and a great personality, but when he met her twin Sister Susannah he was absolutely smitten. Prince started sending her flowers every single day. And he sent her flowers delivered to her door every day for almost a year. * AGAIN, I am not arguing that Vanity was not the inspiration for the song. I just don't think she was the only one - unless the story of Susannah having a boyfriend when she met Prince is not the case - if that's not true then I would say that chunk of the lyric is only related to the film. * So now the song Purple Rain was inspired by Vanity??? Really??? When was this confirmed by anyone - especially Prince?? This was the song that tied the entire film together. Remember, the largest storylines in the film were the family drama and the battle of the bands. That song was an anthemic "let me take you higher" song - not a ballad or love song. I never said Prince did not write other songs inspired by Vanity - I used Wonderful Ass as an example, because that song has been confirmed by the camp. However, if you look at most of the songs he was writing during that time (1982-1983) most were songs of a sexual nature -not deeper love songs or ballads. LRC, Automatic, Lady Cab Driver, International Lover, Let's Pretend We're Married - and all of the V6 songs - Nasty Girl, Wet Dream, Drive Me Wild, Bite The Beat, etc. He was focused on sex at that point. Even the song Girl, as you mentioned, is a song about sex - look at the lyrics. He's not singing about emotions in these songs - it's completely physical and sexual. * I am basing the depth of the relationships on the songs that the women inspired, and also the overall music that was being recorded during their time with him.

Nothing you provided here proves that Prince started pursuing Susannah as soon as Dec 82 or Jan of 83. All this is your speculations... But, I can provide you with the link to where Susannah said herself that she met him at the Christmas party right out of high school in Dec 82 and... "MONTHS later he was knocking at her door" I can also provide the link where she said he started pursuing her at Dez Dickerson's birthday party which I already showed you in my last post was confirmed by her sister's Wendy's comment that it was indeed when Prince first started to pursue her. I can also provide the link where she said it was AFTER the 1999 tour. You yourself have noted in another discussion what she said in the interview: http://prince.org/msg/15/...&pg=9. "Violetcrush said: "I just came across the interview that Susannah gave to RR Auction. In this discussion she specifies the time frame for the beginning of her time with Prince. She states that when the 1999 tour ended Prince began coming to LA and staying with them at their house. She explains that this was well before starting to record the Purple Rain album. So, this would have been the period when he was recording the Time album and doing pre-production for the Purple Rain album in April/May 1983. Here's the link to the interview:" So where you're getting this from now is beyond me. You certainly didn't gather the information from this interview, since Susannah explained that her memory was failing her this time around, making a point to add to keep in mind that everything she was saying was out of sequence. But since we have a history of all her statements and recollections from past interviews, and even recollections from her sister to confirm it, I think it pretty darn clear that Prince started pursuing Susannah after the 1999 tour was over, most definitely. Your first quote from Allan Light's book that Prince started showing interest in Susannah at the First Ave Benefit show August 3, 1983, was NOT in sequence to the second quote regarding the flowers. The flower sending comment was from a completely different page in the book. Sending flowers for a year, (something he'd done for Sheila E for a year as well) had to have started around the time Susannah specified Prince started pursuing her - after the 1999 tour and close to the time frame of Dez's party which was in August, and days apart from the First Ave benefit concert... so it makes complete sense. Susannah is the one who stated that Prince started pursuing her after the 1999 tour and at Dez's party. I don't understand the obsession with trying to prove something that's already been established by the lady over and over. Now you're completely ignoring the comment by her sister Wendy that backs up her statement. I won't keep going back and forth over this one when nothing you're saying is substantiated. Enjoy the thread Violetcrush. This is my last reply. [Edited 1/27/19 5:58am]

What I wrote was copied from both Biographies - Prince sent her flowers for over a year before she began an intimate relationship with him. Obviously, he would not have been regularly staying in LA between January and April - other than quick trips here and there - because they were still on the 1999 tour. However, as soon as that tour ended he was spending much of his time in LA, and as Susannah said - staying at their tiny house, and bringing her to the studio with him all the time. So, he's going to choose sleeping on a couch over staying in his own hotel room?? It's obvious why he was staying there.

*

So, from mid April through August '83 Prince was pursuing her, seeing her, kissing her in the bathroom of Sunset Sound, sending her flowers, buying her a new bed, etc, etc, etc. This has ALL been stated multiple times. He was constantly flying out to LA during that period. I have no doubt that Vanity knew there was something more going on out there then just work. She wasn't naive.

*

Vanity left July '83. Dez's birthday is August 7th. The 1st Avenue show was August 3rd which was a Wednesday. Susannah stated she arrived in July - on Vanity's last day with the camp. Prince was no longer hiding his interest in Susannah by that point. Again, the party was the point where it became evident or obvious to everyone that Prince was very interested in Susannah. He was flirting with her and giving her his attention at the party. This is really not that difficult to grasp - unless you are someone who just does not want to accept it.

*

Yes, Sheila stated Prince was sending her flowers. She also stated (Questlove interview) he wanted her to be a solo artist and she was not sure she wanted to do that. He initially brought her into the camp for the purpose of recording an album - I believe she stated this during her interview with Questlove. She was out touring at the time. He had to convince her to leave drumming and do a solo record. He didn't have to bring Susannah into the mix - he had Jill Jones, Wendy, Lisa and Brenda for backup singing. He brought her in because he wanted her there with him.

*

You are going back and forth, because you seem to not want to accept that these things were happening during that time period. I have no doubt that he was doing the same thing with Vanity after he met her in Jan '82. She was living in NY, and he wanted her to move to MN. He was also in a relationship with Susan Moonsie at the time. I'm sure Vanity received her fair share of flowers and phone calls before she made the choice to move to MN. He wouldn't have been traveling to NY, because there was no recording studio there. I have no doubt that neither Vanity nor Susan knew what was going on with the other before Vanity arrived on the scene. This was Prince's m/o back then. I never stated Susannah was the only one who received flowers. What I stated was the time frame in which she received them.