muchtoofast said:

violetcrush said:

Um, I would classify her as more than just "someone" assigning feelings in this scenario. Again, this is you NOT really getting the things she was saying in her discussion at all. HE DID NOT communincate like a normal person. HE WAS NOT going to say "baby, I love you so much that I wrote this song for you". And for a song like Adore, why would he need to say anything at all?? The message is in the lyrics. She stated that after he played her the song she said told him it was beautiful. However, if she then proceeded to take him back up to the bedroom and f**ck his brains out, she was certainly not going to go into that detail. So, because the pieces of the story that she shared don't fit what YOU think the narrative should be then she must be lying?? Okay, you go with that then

YOU are one of the people assigning him feelings He even talked about that once in an interview and how he thought folks like that were kookoo. I believe her when she said she thought they were very close, I do think though she could have been wrong about that. Her imaginings about song inspirations are just that unless she had asked him about them. And even then he could lie just to please her or any of his other women. Might have been about her, might have been about ALL of his women.

I'm not assigning any feelings to him whatsoever. I've been re-stating her discussion about the relationship, and also using the songs that we know he wrote for her as insight, because we all know his songs were written for and about his own life experiences.

*

Again - Prince has stated, "if you want to know about my life listen to my music. It's all in there."

*

Here's an exerpt from Duane Tudahl's article on Prince and his music during the PR era:

*

"Prince was never completely gregarious by nature and the white-hot spotlight that shined on him ended up isolating him even more. He withdrew from people to maintain his focus. Perhaps he recorded so many songs not just because he wrote so often, but maybe it was because he had so much to say and his songs were the avenue to conduct the conversation in the way he knew best.

Prince explained to El Pais in 1996: "When I write a song, it's my spirit speaking."

If you want to know Prince, put on some headphones and truly listen to the story he was telling. Even though he is gone, he left many of his most intimate thoughts waiting to be unlocked by someone willing to do the work."

[Edited 1/12/19 6:29am]

violetcrush said:

muchtoofast said:

luvgirl said:

You're bending over backwards explaining in details the type of loneliness she was going through. What difference the loneliness? She said he asked her to move out- and she eventually left the apartment she was living in because she said she was lonely. It doesn't matter if it was physically loneliness or spiritually loneliness. She was lonely. As well as, completely heart broken that he asked her to leave. As she herself stated. Isn't that disheartening to you? I listened to her story completely and I don't think the tale that she told here was romantic by any stretch of the imagination. [Edited 1/12/19 5:23am]

This is why it would be nice to read a book or hear an interview with someone more down to earth like Jill or Judith or Andy. Someone who can actually form a decent sentence. I thought Devin’s book was good and honest, and until he out of the blue ended things he was sharing feelings about his songs, his father, and his band members with her like a pretty normal person not like someone who “can’t share his feelings”. The story Susannah told makes me think he put up with her because he needed her as a singer. And I don’t know why she complains about not getting paid enough, it’s not like she even paid for her own food let alone housing or utilities.

I'll just put his lyrics here to the song he wrote for Wendy, Lisa, and Susannah for you to read and absorb, and then we can discuss how "unimportant" she was to Prince. Oh, and I'm still waiting for your take on his expressing how "unimportant she was to him in songs like Forever In My Life, Empty Room, Wally, Come Home

*

In This Bed Scream is the twelfth and final track on the first disc of Prince's 19th album Emancipation, the third album to be credited to .

Basic tracking dates are unknown, but it is likely that the track was recorded in late 1995 or 1996 at Paisley Park Studios in Chanhassen, Minnesota. It was created using feedback noise produced when Prince put a guitar on the floor. It is dedicated (in reversed text) in the album's booklet to "Wendyand Lisa and Susannah",

*

To these walls I talk
Telling them what I wasn't strong enough to say
To these walls I talk
Telling them how I cried the day you went away

[Chorus]
How did we ever lose communication?
How did we ever lose each other's sound?
Baby, if you wanna, we can fix the situation
Maybe we can stop the rain from coming down

[Verse 2]
In this bed I scream
Lonely nights I lay awake thinking of you
And if I'm cursed with a dream
A thousand times I feel whatever I've put you through

[Bridge]
Tell me, how're we gonna put this back together?
How're we gonna think with the same mind?
Knowing all along that life is so much better
Living and loving together all the time
Living and loving
In this bed I, in this bed I, in this bed I scream

[Verse 3]
In this car I drive
I'm looking for the road that leads back To the soul we shared
With my very life
I'd gladly be the body upon the cross we bear (Cross we bear)

[Chorus]
How did we ever lose communication?
How did we ever lose each other's sound?
Baby, if you wanna, we can fix the situation
Maybe we can stop the rain from coming down

[Outro]
Maybe we can't, maybe we can
Stop the rain, stop the rain
In this bed I, in this bed I, in this bed I scream
I scream
In this bed I scream

*

Oh yes - seems Prince really could have cared less about Susannah

muchtoofast said:

violetcrush said:

I'm not assigning any feelings to him whatsoever. I've been re-stating her discussion about the relationship, and also using the songs that we know he wrote for her as insight, because we all know his songs were written for and about his own life experiences.

*

Again - Prince has stated, "if you want to know about my life listen to my music. It's all in there."

*

Here's an exerpt from Duane Tudahl's article on Prince and his music during the PR era:

*

"Prince was never completely gregarious by nature and the white-hot spotlight that shined on him ended up isolating him even more. He withdrew from people to maintain his focus. Perhaps he recorded so many songs not just because he wrote so often, but maybe it was because he had so much to say and his songs were the avenue to conduct the conversation in the way he knew best.

Prince explained to El Pais in 1996: "When I write a song, it's my spirit speaking."

If you want to know Prince, put on some headphones and truly listen to the story he was telling. Even though he is gone, he left many of his most intimate thoughts waiting to be unlocked by someone willing to do the work."

[Edited 1/12/19 6:29am]

Here he is talking to a magazine interviewer. It happens to be about his wife but it doesn’t matter who it’s about. This is not a man locked in some emotional vacuum. “Mayte has been my best friend for years and years; she is the only person who showed me no malice,” he says, adding that it was as though he was engulfed by a universal knowledge or awareness. “That was when I realized that I was in love with her, with everything about her, in love with the process itself. Somebody discovered this thing [love]; whoever did was a genius. I fell on my knees and said `thank you’ [to God].” [Edited 1/12/19 6:40am]

Right. And then he began an affair iwth Manuela c. 1998, "annulled" the marriage in 1999, and divorced her in June of 2000.

*

My point is, Prince said a llot of "stuff" to the press, based on whatever idea or persona he wanted to convey at that time. I would say that Mayte's statement that she was not permitted to initiate contact with him at all during their relationship tells another story than the one Prince presented to that reporter.

muchtoofast said:

PennyPurple said:

Yes, they do all embellish and with each interview it gets worse. Heck BM said he choreographed Purple Rain, Kim Berry said she worked with him for 26 or 30 years, when she hasn't and come to find out she didn't even work for him 6 years before his death. I forget if it was Wendy or Lisa who said they taught him about Jazz....and don't even get me started on Andre.

I take everything they say with a grain of salt.

I don't know why you are so hell bent on believing everything out of Susannah's mouth, when it's been shown to you several times on this thread, that she changes her stories, they all do.

And who would negatively judge someone with the courage to say “I loved him, wanted him, put up with shit from him, and didn’t leave him when I should have. He was exciting, rich, and I wanted to be his woman forever”. To say “he took me downstairs and played me a love song but I’m not sure if it was about me or for me”. If it was, I think you’d know, or did he finish the song then just ask for a grilled cheese? There was no discussion about the song? If there was no romance around a song debut then there’s no romance about “who” the song is about. What gets me is when someone assigns feelings to this man, and talks about his intentions, regrets, hopes, dreams, and unicorns. Makes me wish for a Fan Fiction Forum here where we can all get our freak on. [Edited 1/11/19 23:51pm]

OK, I'm probably going to end up annoying everyone here. I seem to be good at that.

There's been talk around money: references to riches, Susannah's comments about how little she was paid, etc.

Well, when it came to paying people in general, it seems to me that P often exercised a double standard, just as he did with faithfulness.

In this area, it seems he wanted people to be almost like monks or nuns who proved pure devotion to the music. Yet he didn't require the same sort of proof of devotion to the music of himself. Of course, he was thinking, "I KNOW I'm devoted to the music." But it all operates as a double standard.

My intuition says that when it came to P and money/trust/attachment/security, things were very complicated. It seems he suffered a lot of pain and insecurity around these things.

So I don't see a simple villain in any of this. Not to say that anyone else does, either.

As far as P being rich (and those with him a lot enjoying some of the fruits of that), my intuition tells me that it had little to do with what tempted Susannah to stay, and why she up with what she did for as long as she did. I don't get that at all when I listen to her. I do sense that she fell deeply in love and adored many things about P.

rednblue said:

muchtoofast said:

PennyPurple said: And who would negatively judge someone with the courage to say “I loved him, wanted him, put up with shit from him, and didn’t leave him when I should have. He was exciting, rich, and I wanted to be his woman forever”. To say “he took me downstairs and played me a love song but I’m not sure if it was about me or for me”. If it was, I think you’d know, or did he finish the song then just ask for a grilled cheese? There was no discussion about the song? If there was no romance around a song debut then there’s no romance about “who” the song is about. What gets me is when someone assigns feelings to this man, and talks about his intentions, regrets, hopes, dreams, and unicorns. Makes me wish for a Fan Fiction Forum here where we can all get our freak on. [Edited 1/11/19 23:51pm]

OK, I'm probably going to end up annoying everyone here. I seem to be good at that.

There's been talk around money: references to riches, Susannah's comments about how little she was paid, etc.

Well, when it came to paying people in general, it seems to me that P often exercised a double standard, just as he did with faithfulness.

In this area, it seems he wanted people to be almost like monks or nuns who proved pure devotion to the music. Yet he didn't require the same sort of proof of devotion to the music of himself. Of course, he was thinking, "I KNOW I'm devoted to the music." But it all operates as a double standard.

My intuition says that when it came to P and money/trust/attachment/security, things were very complicated. It seems he suffered a lot of pain and insecurity around these things.

So I don't see a simple villain in any of this. Not to say that anyone else does, either.

As far as P being rich (and those with him a lot enjoying some of the fruits of that), my intuition tells me that it had little to do with what tempted Susannah to stay, and why she up with what she did for as long as she did. I don't get that at all when I listen to her. I do sense that she fell deeply in love and adored many things about P.

Well said rednblue, and I agree 100% with your thoughts here. She fell for him before he made the the 100's of millions with PR. She weathered the storm during his "rock star" status and him enjoying the fruits of his labor during that time.

*

As Susannah said during her interview (of which I'm not sure how much "muchtoofast" actually absorbed) regarding the work, "Prince always said it's not about the money. But when you're not Prince, and you've worked 100 hours that week, you say well I kind of need the money..."

*

Most in hs camp have discussed how little the band members, tech crew, etc. were paid compared to the money that was being made at that time. J would imagine that most were there because they were passionate about the music, and were thrilled with the experience.

violetcrush said:

muchtoofast said:

violetcrush said: Here he is talking to a magazine interviewer. It happens to be about his wife but it doesn’t matter who it’s about. This is not a man locked in some emotional vacuum. “Mayte has been my best friend for years and years; she is the only person who showed me no malice,” he says, adding that it was as though he was engulfed by a universal knowledge or awareness. “That was when I realized that I was in love with her, with everything about her, in love with the process itself. Somebody discovered this thing [love]; whoever did was a genius. I fell on my knees and said `thank you’ [to God].” [Edited 1/12/19 6:40am]

Right. And then he began an affair iwth Manuela c. 1998, "annulled" the marriage in 1999, and divorced her in June of 2000.

*

My point is, Prince said a llot of "stuff" to the press, based on whatever idea or persona he wanted to convey at that time. I would say that Mayte's statement that she was not permitted to initiate contact with him at all during their relationship tells another story than the one Prince presented to that reporter.

Agreed about how P could be with the press, but at the same time, there is no reason to believe that those weren't sincere feelings about what P loved about Mayte. Even if we were to consider some of the speculation (by people who weren't there) around P's motivations for the marriage, this could absolutely be true.

It seems that P could care a lot about many women, that he could get bored easily, and perhaps some of his inability to be faithful, a pattern that seemed to go on for decades, was motivated by a need for reassurance as well as by the indulgent pleasure.

He said in the Chris Rock interview that he could think a woman was all he could EVER want, but then here comes temptation. And he had to deal with the temptations of a rock star.

I get the sense that P was VERY good at rationalizing things to the world (and maybe to himself), e.g. the whole anulment/spiritual remarriage bit, that his feelings about women could be complex and also change around a lot, and that genuine caring feelings about a women could coexist with some cruel treatment and a compulsion for unfaithfulness. I would think this made for a lot of pain for all involved, including P, and that the whys of it all were pretty complicated.

"It's time someone programmed U (What's wrong with me)
It's time U learned women r not butterflies
They're computers 2 just like U Computer Blue (Where is my baby?)
Chauvinistic computer
It's time someone programmed U (Na na na na na)
U fall n love 2 fast and hate 2 soon
And take 4 granted the feeling's mutual (The feeling's mutual!)
We're computers 2 just like U Computer Blue..."

[Edited 1/12/19 7:47am]

rednblue said:

violetcrush said:

Right. And then he began an affair iwth Manuela c. 1998, "annulled" the marriage in 1999, and divorced her in June of 2000.

*

My point is, Prince said a llot of "stuff" to the press, based on whatever idea or persona he wanted to convey at that time. I would say that Mayte's statement that she was not permitted to initiate contact with him at all during their relationship tells another story than the one Prince presented to that reporter.

Agreed about how P could be with the press, but at the same time, there is no reason to believe that those weren't sincere feelings about what P loved about Mayte. Even if we were to consider some of the speculation (by people who weren't there) around P's motivations for the marriage, this could absolutely be true.

It seems that P could care a lot about many women, that he could get bored easily, and perhaps some of his inability to be faithful, a pattern that seemed to go on for decades, was motivated by a need for reassurance as well as by the indulgent pleasure.

He said in the Chris Rock interview that he could think a woman was all he could EVER want, but then here comes temptation. And he had to deal with the temptations of a rock star.

I get the sense that P was VERY good at rationalizing things to the world (and maybe to himself), e.g. the whole anulment/spiritual remarriage bit), that his feelings about women could change a lot, and that genuine caring feelings about a women could coexist with some cruel treatment and a compulsion for unfaithfulness. I would think this made for a lot of pain for all involved, including P, and that the whys of it all were pretty complicated.

"It's time someone programmed U (What's wrong with me)
It's time U learned women r not butterflies
They're computers 2 just like U Computer Blue (Where is my baby?)
Chauvinistic computer
It's time someone programmed U (Na na na na na)
U fall n love 2 fast and hate 2 soon
And take 4 granted the feeling's mutual (The feeling's mutual!)
We're computers 2 just like U Computer Blue..."

[Edited 1/12/19 7:43am]

Yes, he could not resist the temptation of being with other women - I think throughout the whole of his life. However, where the complexity comes in is that his expectations of the woman did not apply to him. It was a double standard.

*

This is why I typically go by the music more than any discussions he had with journalists about his relationships. The songs are a way to get inside his head and to at least get an idea of how he was feeling at a particular time - even it it's just his own side of what was happening.

violetcrush said:

Um, I would classify her as more than just "someone" assigning feelings in this scenario. Again, this is you NOT really getting the things she was saying in her discussion at all. HE DID NOT communincate like a normal person. HE WAS NOT going to say "baby, I love you so much that I wrote this song for you". And for a song like Adore, why would he need to say anything at all?? The message is in the lyrics. She stated that after he played her the song she said told him it was beautiful. However, if she then proceeded to take him back up to the bedroom and f**ck his brains out, she was certainly not going to go into that detail. So, because the pieces of the story that she shared don't fit what YOU think the narrative should be then she must be lying?? Okay, you go with that then

How would you know? How would YOU know what Susannah's feelings or Prince feelings were? How would YOU know what songs were about whom? Heck, they don't even know.

And I will say it again, lot's of the associates have and are embellishing stories of Prince, and the role they each played. You can't say they don't because there are plenty of examples that can be given to you.

You won't even allow yourself to hear different points of views. You argue with every different point of view if it doesn't jive with you. 100's of posts just on this thread alone. The thing about it is, it's your OPINION, it's not FACTS.

violetcrush said:

muchtoofast said:

violetcrush said: Here he is talking to a magazine interviewer. It happens to be about his wife but it doesn’t matter who it’s about. This is not a man locked in some emotional vacuum. “Mayte has been my best friend for years and years; she is the only person who showed me no malice,” he says, adding that it was as though he was engulfed by a universal knowledge or awareness. “That was when I realized that I was in love with her, with everything about her, in love with the process itself. Somebody discovered this thing [love]; whoever did was a genius. I fell on my knees and said `thank you’ [to God].” [Edited 1/12/19 6:40am]

Right. And then he began an affair iwth Manuela c. 1998, "annulled" the marriage in 1999, and divorced her in June of 2000.

*

My point is, Prince said a llot of "stuff" to the press, based on whatever idea or persona he wanted to convey at that time. I would say that Mayte's statement that she was not permitted to initiate contact with him at all during their relationship tells another story than the one Prince presented to that reporter.

He had affairs in every relationship he was ever in. LOL He was engaged to Susannah and told Jill not worry he still planned on seeing her and even set her up an apartment. He wanted Vanity to move to MN with him, and she walked into a house full of women. Love isn't screwing every woman in sight. Love isn't moving them into 1 house together.

That's not love Violet...

violetcrush said:

muchtoofast said:

luvgirl said: This is why it would be nice to read a book or hear an interview with someone more down to earth like Jill or Judith or Andy. Someone who can actually form a decent sentence. I thought Devin’s book was good and honest, and until he out of the blue ended things he was sharing feelings about his songs, his father, and his band members with her like a pretty normal person not like someone who “can’t share his feelings”. The story Susannah told makes me think he put up with her because he needed her as a singer. And I don’t know why she complains about not getting paid enough, it’s not like she even paid for her own food let alone housing or utilities.

I'll just put his lyrics here to the song he wrote for Wendy, Lisa, and Susannah for you to read and absorb, and then we can discuss how "unimportant" she was to Prince. Oh, and I'm still waiting for your take on his expressing how "unimportant she was to him in songs like Forever In My Life, Empty Room, Wally, Come Home

*

In This Bed Scream is the twelfth and final track on the first disc of Prince's 19th album Emancipation, the third album to be credited to .

Basic tracking dates are unknown, but it is likely that the track was recorded in late 1995 or 1996 at Paisley Park Studios in Chanhassen, Minnesota. It was created using feedback noise produced when Prince put a guitar on the floor. It is dedicated (in reversed text) in the album's booklet to "Wendyand Lisa and Susannah",

*

To these walls I talk
Telling them what I wasn't strong enough to say
To these walls I talk
Telling them how I cried the day you went away

[Chorus]
How did we ever lose communication?
How did we ever lose each other's sound?
Baby, if you wanna, we can fix the situation
Maybe we can stop the rain from coming down

[Verse 2]
In this bed I scream
Lonely nights I lay awake thinking of you
And if I'm cursed with a dream
A thousand times I feel whatever I've put you through

[Bridge]
Tell me, how're we gonna put this back together?
How're we gonna think with the same mind?
Knowing all along that life is so much better
Living and loving together all the time
Living and loving
In this bed I, in this bed I, in this bed I scream

[Verse 3]
In this car I drive
I'm looking for the road that leads back To the soul we shared
With my very life
I'd gladly be the body upon the cross we bear (Cross we bear)

[Chorus]
How did we ever lose communication?
How did we ever lose each other's sound?
Baby, if you wanna, we can fix the situation
Maybe we can stop the rain from coming down

[Outro]
Maybe we can't, maybe we can
Stop the rain, stop the rain
In this bed I, in this bed I, in this bed I scream
I scream
In this bed I scream

*

Oh yes - seems Prince really could have cared less about Susannah

I love this song. He really seemed like he was reaching out. I assume that they were not in communication at the time those lyrics were written. In the clips from the Musicology tour doc it showed Wendy and Sheila talking with Prince before a show so it appears they were close again by that time and with Wendy joining him for the apprearance on Tavis Smiley.

PennyPurple said:

violetcrush said:

Um, I would classify her as more than just "someone" assigning feelings in this scenario. Again, this is you NOT really getting the things she was saying in her discussion at all. HE DID NOT communincate like a normal person. HE WAS NOT going to say "baby, I love you so much that I wrote this song for you". And for a song like Adore, why would he need to say anything at all?? The message is in the lyrics. She stated that after he played her the song she said told him it was beautiful. However, if she then proceeded to take him back up to the bedroom and f**ck his brains out, she was certainly not going to go into that detail. So, because the pieces of the story that she shared don't fit what YOU think the narrative should be then she must be lying?? Okay, you go with that then

How would you know? How would YOU know what Susannah's feelings or Prince feelings were? How would YOU know what songs were about whom? Heck, they don't even know.

And I will say it again, lot's of the associates have and are embellishing stories of Prince, and the role they each played. You can't say they don't because there are plenty of examples that can be given to you.

You won't even allow yourself to hear different points of views. You argue with every different point of view if it doesn't jive with you. 100's of posts just on this thread alone. The thing about it is, it's your OPINION, it's not FACTS.

How would I know what Susannah's feelings were?? Well, for starters, she's just spent a good 2 hours discussing her feelings and relationship with Prince, so I'd say that's a good source for that information. And hopefully at some point she'll write her full story, so we'll have more on those feelings.

*

The more important question here Penny, is how on Earth do YOU know what, if anything, has been embellished by anyone who knew Prince personally? HOW are YOU the judge of anything about their time with him? And HOW pray-tell, is one person's subjective view or memory of a situatiion with Prince any type of FACT over another person's subjective view/memory of that situation with Prince???

*

You see how ridiculous that is, right??????

rednblue said:

violetcrush said:

Right. And then he began an affair iwth Manuela c. 1998, "annulled" the marriage in 1999, and divorced her in June of 2000.

*

My point is, Prince said a llot of "stuff" to the press, based on whatever idea or persona he wanted to convey at that time. I would say that Mayte's statement that she was not permitted to initiate contact with him at all during their relationship tells another story than the one Prince presented to that reporter.

Agreed about how P could be with the press, but at the same time, there is no reason to believe that those weren't sincere feelings about what P loved about Mayte. Even if we were to consider some of the speculation (by people who weren't there) around P's motivations for the marriage, this could absolutely be true.

It seems that P could care a lot about many women, that he could get bored easily, and perhaps some of his inability to be faithful, a pattern that seemed to go on for decades, was motivated by a need for reassurance as well as by the indulgent pleasure.

He said in the Chris Rock interview that he could think a woman was all he could EVER want, but then here comes temptation. And he had to deal with the temptations of a rock star.

I get the sense that P was VERY good at rationalizing things to the world (and maybe to himself), e.g. the whole anulment/spiritual remarriage bit, that his feelings about women could be complex and also change around a lot, and that genuine caring feelings about a women could coexist with some cruel treatment and a compulsion for unfaithfulness. I would think this made for a lot of pain for all involved, including P, and that the whys of it all were pretty complicated.

"It's time someone programmed U (What's wrong with me)
It's time U learned women r not butterflies
They're computers 2 just like U Computer Blue (Where is my baby?)
Chauvinistic computer
It's time someone programmed U (Na na na na na)
U fall n love 2 fast and hate 2 soon
And take 4 granted the feeling's mutual (The feeling's mutual!)
We're computers 2 just like U Computer Blue..."

[Edited 1/12/19 7:47am]

Well said,I agree.

violetcrush said:

PennyPurple said:

muchtoofast said:

PennyPurple said:

He had affairs in every relationship he was ever in. LOL He was engaged to Susannah and told Jill not worry he still planned on seeing her and even set her up an apartment. He wanted Vanity to move to MN with him, and she walked into a house full of women. Love isn't screwing every woman in sight. Love isn't moving them into 1 house together.

That's not love Violet...

I do believe Violet absorbed the Madonna-whore complex like a champ.

muchtoofast said:

violetcrush said:

Right. And then he began an affair iwth Manuela c. 1998, "annulled" the marriage in 1999, and divorced her in June of 2000.

*

My point is, Prince said a llot of "stuff" to the press, based on whatever idea or persona he wanted to convey at that time. I would say that Mayte's statement that she was not permitted to initiate contact with him at all during their relationship tells another story than the one Prince presented to that reporter.

My point is that he could express emotions when he wanted to, to real live human beings. You make him sound like some zombie savant, dead until he’s singing a pin point accurate account of the only human experience worth having. The more I think about it, the more I think Susannah was just looking for a meal ticket.

Oh man, you just refuse to get it, though!! Prince expressed his feelings, experiences and ideas MOST within his songs. Of course he could have conversations with "real live human beings", however he was not comfortable with it - especially with journalists/reporters who were strangers to him, and whom he grew to dislike over the years due to their criticisms of his music and/or persona.

*

Suannah worked her ass off for The Family record and many; other recordings she did with Prince. Did she enjoy some perks that come with being in his life everyday? Of course. They did things his way, and as he wanted them done for his lifestyle at that time.

*

Seems though, that Devin D did get her big "meal ticket" with the free use of Baby I'm A Star for her Star Search competition. I think she earned every penny of that. No doubt that Prince was a happy recipient of her "wake-up BJ's", as she described them - assuming he stayed long enough to receive it. As per "her song" Bedtime Story, it would appear he never had much time.

muchtoofast said:

PennyPurple said:

He had affairs in every relationship he was ever in. LOL He was engaged to Susannah and told Jill not worry he still planned on seeing her and even set her up an apartment. He wanted Vanity to move to MN with him, and she walked into a house full of women. Love isn't screwing every woman in sight. Love isn't moving them into 1 house together.

That's not love Violet...

I do believe Violet absorbed the Madonna-whore complex like a champ.

Actually, Prince absorbed and wrote often about that very subject (Indifference: "you want to be Madonna, but you act like a whore...", Dinner w/ Delores: "showin' dirty movies like some kind of whore..."damn Delores, pick another subject please, introduce the carpet to something other than your knees...") So, muchtoofast, I guess in this scenario:

*

Susannah = Madoonna

Devin = Whore???

*

I think that's a fairly safe analogy.

*

Hey PennyP - NO FRICKING KIDDING, WE ALL KNOW PRINCE WAS NOT MONOGAMOUS AND HE HAD WOMEN ON THE SIDE. THAT'S BEEN DISCUSSED AD NAUSEUM.. WE ALSO KNOW THAT PRINCE PRACTICED A DOUBLE STANDARD WITH HIS MORE SERIOUS GIRLFRIENDS - A LA, I CAN CHEAT, BUT YOU CAN'T. YEP, WE ALL GOT THAT MEMO.

*

So, AGAIN, if you take that piece out of the equation, and you look at the songs, which again, we know were Prince's "one-sided" view of his relationships (ie: "If I was your girlfriend, would you tell me everything you forgot when I was your man..." which we know could and would not happen in a relationship with Prince, becuase he didn't commuinicate like that), yet it's still how he personally felt about someone and the relationship at that time, then I think it's pretty obvious how deep (in his complex mind) his feelings were for Susannah Melvoin.
*

Here's a thought - let's just take NC2U completely off the table, and focus on Empty Room, Forever In My Life, If I Was Your Girlfriend, and In This Bed I Scream - which have all been confirmed to have been inspired by Susannah. Unless your position is that he just randomly made up shit to sing about that didn't really mean anything to him, then these 4 songs alone demonstrate her importance in his life.

If he's sleeping with 3-4 different ladies at a time, how can anyone pinpoint that a song is about 1 particular person? Because they say so? There have been several songs that each lady thought it was about them, and they've all claimed it.

How can you choose to believe 1 and not the others? You can't really go by what Prince said, because quite frankly he wasn't truthful 1/2 the time either.

[Edited 1/12/19 10:20am]

I'll admit that I have plenty of intuitions and do plenty of speculating. The following falls in that area.

One of the reasons I think it may have been pretty painful all around, including for P, is that he seemed at times fascinated with whether people would stick around under trying circumstances.

I'm thinking of things like Susannah's story of P asking her to visit him at his place and then going silent...the story where he calls her later, extremely upset that she eventually took off.

Many years later, in the Piano and Mic shows, P highlights the movie scene where Streisand calls Redford to talk about how he hurt her. P (of course) sets this side by side with If I Was Your Girlfriend. P speaks with wonder about the idea that Redford hurt Streisand badly, yet Streisand remains so close to Redford in particular, that he is the one she calls to talk through and navigate her feelings.

On a side note, it even seems to me that one part of what impresses P is how it appears that the Streisand character may not have any had a single other person who felt close enough for her to seek out for that conversation.

There's the whole thing about humans developing a sense of security through audaciously pushing the limits of behavior. And after doing so, coming to the perception that, despite strong repercussions, they are loved unconditionally. BUT...I have a teenager, so at this point in life, I may just see certain dynamics everywhere I look.

violetcrush said:

Here's a thought - let's just take NC2U completely off the table, and focus on Empty Room, Forever In My Life, If I Was Your Girlfriend, and In This Bed I Scream - which have all been confirmed to have been inspired by Susannah. Unless your position is that he just randomly made up shit to sing about that didn't really mean anything to him, then these 4 songs alone demonstrate her importance in his life.

In This Bed Eye Scream was dedicated to Susannah, Wendy, and Lisa; not just Susannah. And dedicated does not mean the same thing as inspired by.

#factcheck

rednblue said:

I'll admit that I have plenty of intuitions and do plenty of speculating. The following falls in that area.

One of the reasons I think it may have been pretty painful all around, including for P, is that he seemed at times fascinated with whether people would stick around under trying circumstances.

I'm thinking of things like Susannah's story of P asking her to visit him at his place and then going silent...the story where he calls her later, extremely upset that she eventually took off.

Many years later, in the Piano and Mic shows, P highlights the movie scene where Streisand calls Redford to talk about how he hurt her. P (of course) sets this side by side with If I Was Your Girlfriend. P speaks with wonder about the idea that Redford hurt Streisand badly, yet Streisand remains so close to Redford in particular, that he is the one she calls to talk through and navigate her feelings.

On a side note, it even seems to me that one part of what impresses P is how it appears that the Streisand character may not have any had a single other person who felt close enough for her to seek out for that conversation.

There's the whole thing about humans developing a sense of security through audaciously pushing the limits of behavior. And after doing so, coming to the perception that, despite strong repercussions, they are loved unconditionally. BUT...I have a teenager, so at this point in life, I may just see certain dynamics everywhere I look.

Yes, one thing is for sure - Prince was extremely complicated in relationships. We can speculate how and why he became or was that way, but in reality we just don't know. Seems he may not have even known.

*

I loved his discussion of IIWYG and the analogy of the movie "The Way We Were". My take on it was that he was looking at himself as Streisand's character, with regard to his woman hurting him, but also being the only one he could talk to about it. It brought to mind his song Wally, when he screams out, "what am I gonna do? She was the only one in the whole world that I could talk to..."

jone70 said:

violetcrush said:

Here's a thought - let's just take NC2U completely off the table, and focus on Empty Room, Forever In My Life, If I Was Your Girlfriend, and In This Bed I Scream - which have all been confirmed to have been inspired by Susannah. Unless your position is that he just randomly made up shit to sing about that didn't really mean anything to him, then these 4 songs alone demonstrate her importance in his life.

In This Bed Eye Scream was dedicated to Susannah, Wendy, and Lisa; not just Susannah. And dedicated does not mean the same thing as inspired by.

#factcheck

Seriously???? Wow, soooooo much grasping here. Let's see....I wonder how Prince got the "inspiration" for that song?? Hmmmm, what was going through his head at that time??? Gosh, it's so hard to fathom based on those lyrics. They are SO hard to decipher!!

*

Um, I'm going to go out on a limb and say tthat this lyric would specifically be for Susannah:

*

In this bed I scream
Lonely nights I lay awake thinking of you
And if I'm cursed with a dream
A thousand times I feel whatever I've put you through

*

Don't think he was lonely in bed and wishing Wendy and Lisa were the ones there next to him. Clearly, it's written to express his feelings about his working relationship/frienship with W&L, as well as, his personal relationship with Suannah. Very clever how he wrote it, as it easily fits both dyamics. No one ever said he was not a genius with his music. As Susannah stated, "he could turn a phrase better than most poets I've read"

violetcrush said:

muchtoofast said:

PennyPurple said: I do believe Violet absorbed the Madonna-whore complex like a champ.

Actually, Prince absorbed and wrote often about that very subject (Indifference: "you want to be Madonna, but you act like a whore...", Dinner w/ Delores: "showin' dirty movies like some kind of whore..."damn Delores, pick another subject please, introduce the carpet to something other than your knees...") So, muchtoofast, I guess in this scenario:

*

Susannah = Madoonna

Devin = Whore???

*

I think that's a fairly safe analogy.

*

Hey PennyP - NO FRICKING KIDDING, WE ALL KNOW PRINCE WAS NOT MONOGAMOUS AND HE HAD WOMEN ON THE SIDE. THAT'S BEEN DISCUSSED AD NAUSEUM.. WE ALSO KNOW THAT PRINCE PRACTICED A DOUBLE STANDARD WITH HIS MORE SERIOUS GIRLFRIENDS - A LA, I CAN CHEAT, BUT YOU CAN'T. YEP, WE ALL GOT THAT MEMO.

*

So, AGAIN, if you take that piece out of the equation, and you look at the songs, which again, we know were Prince's "one-sided" view of his relationships (ie: "If I was your girlfriend, would you tell me everything you forgot when I was your man..." which we know could and would not happen in a relationship with Prince, becuase he didn't commuinicate like that), yet it's still how he personally felt about someone and the relationship at that time, then I think it's pretty obvious how deep (in his complex mind) his feelings were for Susannah Melvoin.
*

Here's a thought - let's just take NC2U completely off the table, and focus on Empty Room, Forever In My Life, If I Was Your Girlfriend, and In This Bed I Scream - which have all been confirmed to have been inspired by Susannah. Unless your position is that he just randomly made up shit to sing about that didn't really mean anything to him, then these 4 songs alone demonstrate her importance in his life.

I wonder if he was always so closed off in his relationships. It seemed he would only allow someone to get so close before the walls would come up and he would begin to shut them out,pushing them away eventually. He seems to be alluding to that in the lyrics to "Breakdown" I wonder if he didn't feel that he deserved to be happy or loved and in turn ended up sabotaging a relationship. He said in "2morrow" "I don't want to be happy. I'd rather cry." and in "Way Back Home" "I never wanted a typical life,a scripted role,a trophy wife. All I ever wanted was to be left alone." It seems he may have been realizing that he wasn't cut out for marriage and was becoming content with the idea of being alone.

PennyPurple said:

If he's sleeping with 3-4 different ladies at a time, how can anyone pinpoint that a song is about 1 particular person? Because they say so? There have been several songs that each lady thought it was about them, and they've all claimed it.

How can you choose to believe 1 and not the others? You can't really go by what Prince said, because quite frankly he wasn't truthful 1/2 the time either.

[Edited 1/12/19 10:20am]

*

Oh PennyP, you are officially the QUEEN of changing your position AND the narrative to fit whichever argument you are spinning at any given time! on any given thread!

*

So, if we go by your comment "you can't really go by what Prince said, because quite frankly he wasn't truthful 1/2 the time either".....then this would line up perfectly with the song The Beautiful Ones, right?? Everyone in Prince's camp at the time the song was recorded - the Engineers, the band - EVERYONE - has stated, on the record, that the song - or a good portion of it, was inspired by Prince's frustration about Susannah Melvoin being in a relationship with another guy when he was initially pursuing her. So, now, based on your comment, we can go back to questioning that song as well then.

*

So, to clarify PennyP - you don't believe Engineers, you don't believe the women Prince was personally involved with, you don't believe his band members, AND you don't believe Prince. Okay, got it

violetcrush said:

rednblue said:

I'll admit that I have plenty of intuitions and do plenty of speculating. The following falls in that area.

One of the reasons I think it may have been pretty painful all around, including for P, is that he seemed at times fascinated with whether people would stick around under trying circumstances.

I'm thinking of things like Susannah's story of P asking her to visit him at his place and then going silent...the story where he calls her later, extremely upset that she eventually took off.

Many years later, in the Piano and Mic shows, P highlights the movie scene where Streisand calls Redford to talk about how he hurt her. P (of course) sets this side by side with If I Was Your Girlfriend. P speaks with wonder about the idea that Redford hurt Streisand badly, yet Streisand remains so close to Redford in particular, that he is the one she calls to talk through and navigate her feelings.

On a side note, it even seems to me that one part of what impresses P is how it appears that the Streisand character may not have any had a single other person who felt close enough for her to seek out for that conversation.

There's the whole thing about humans developing a sense of security through audaciously pushing the limits of behavior. And after doing so, coming to the perception that, despite strong repercussions, they are loved unconditionally. BUT...I have a teenager, so at this point in life, I may just see certain dynamics everywhere I look.

Yes, one thing is for sure - Prince was extremely complicated in relationships. We can speculate how and why he became or was that way, but in reality we just don't know. Seems he may not have even known.

*

I loved his discussion of IIWYG and the analogy of the movie "The Way We Were". My take on it was that he was looking at himself as Streisand's character, with regard to his woman hurting him, but also being the only one he could talk to about it. It brought to mind his song Wally, when he screams out, "what am I gonna do? She was the only one in the whole world that I could talk to..."

Those lines from Wally have stuck in my head since first hearing the song.

So many dynamics. So many layers.

pinkcashmere23 said:

violetcrush said:

Actually, Prince absorbed and wrote often about that very subject (Indifference: "you want to be Madonna, but you act like a whore...", Dinner w/ Delores: "showin' dirty movies like some kind of whore..."damn Delores, pick another subject please, introduce the carpet to something other than your knees...") So, muchtoofast, I guess in this scenario:

*

Susannah = Madoonna

Devin = Whore???

*

I think that's a fairly safe analogy.

*

Hey PennyP - NO FRICKING KIDDING, WE ALL KNOW PRINCE WAS NOT MONOGAMOUS AND HE HAD WOMEN ON THE SIDE. THAT'S BEEN DISCUSSED AD NAUSEUM.. WE ALSO KNOW THAT PRINCE PRACTICED A DOUBLE STANDARD WITH HIS MORE SERIOUS GIRLFRIENDS - A LA, I CAN CHEAT, BUT YOU CAN'T. YEP, WE ALL GOT THAT MEMO.

*

So, AGAIN, if you take that piece out of the equation, and you look at the songs, which again, we know were Prince's "one-sided" view of his relationships (ie: "If I was your girlfriend, would you tell me everything you forgot when I was your man..." which we know could and would not happen in a relationship with Prince, becuase he didn't commuinicate like that), yet it's still how he personally felt about someone and the relationship at that time, then I think it's pretty obvious how deep (in his complex mind) his feelings were for Susannah Melvoin.
*

Here's a thought - let's just take NC2U completely off the table, and focus on Empty Room, Forever In My Life, If I Was Your Girlfriend, and In This Bed I Scream - which have all been confirmed to have been inspired by Susannah. Unless your position is that he just randomly made up shit to sing about that didn't really mean anything to him, then these 4 songs alone demonstrate her importance in his life.

I wonder if he was always so closed off in his relationships. It seemed he would only allow someone to get so close before the walls would come up and he would begin to shut them out,pushing them away eventually. He seems to be alluding to that in the lyrics to "Breakdown" I wonder if he didn't feel that he deserved to be happy or loved and in turn ended up sabotaging a relationship. He said in "2morrow" "I don't want to be happy. I'd rather cry." and in "Way Back Home" "I never wanted a typical life,a scripted role,a trophy wife. All I ever wanted was to be left alone." It seems he may have been realizing that he wasn't cut out for marriage and was becoming content with the idea of being alone.

So interesting. And the bolded possibility is, of course, so sad as well. You noted Breakdown and his description of a wall. Do you have further thoughts on these lyrics?

"See, there's a door that U can walk thru where there used 2 b a wall
I don't care, it's cool as long as U catch me, baby (Down, down, down)
(Catch me when I fall) If there's ever a fall
(Down, down, down) The closer 2 the breakdown
The closer we get... (Down, down, down)
2 the breakdown"

[Edited 1/12/19 10:56am]

rednblue said:

violetcrush said:

Yes, one thing is for sure - Prince was extremely complicated in relationships. We can speculate how and why he became or was that way, but in reality we just don't know. Seems he may not have even known.

*

I loved his discussion of IIWYG and the analogy of the movie "The Way We Were". My take on it was that he was looking at himself as Streisand's character, with regard to his woman hurting him, but also being the only one he could talk to about it. It brought to mind his song Wally, when he screams out, "what am I gonna do? She was the only one in the whole world that I could talk to..."

Those lines from Wally have stuck in my head since first hearing the song.

So many dynamics. So many layers.

YES!!! God, I hope he stuck the original tape in the Vault somewhere. I love the extra instruments he added to it, but it would be great to hear the original version, with just him and his piano. Susan Rogers said it was the most beautiful and honest song she had ever heard from him.

pinkcashmere23 said:

violetcrush said:

Actually, Prince absorbed and wrote often about that very subject (Indifference: "you want to be Madonna, but you act like a whore...", Dinner w/ Delores: "showin' dirty movies like some kind of whore..."damn Delores, pick another subject please, introduce the carpet to something other than your knees...") So, muchtoofast, I guess in this scenario:

*

Susannah = Madoonna

Devin = Whore???

*

I think that's a fairly safe analogy.

*

Hey PennyP - NO FRICKING KIDDING, WE ALL KNOW PRINCE WAS NOT MONOGAMOUS AND HE HAD WOMEN ON THE SIDE. THAT'S BEEN DISCUSSED AD NAUSEUM.. WE ALSO KNOW THAT PRINCE PRACTICED A DOUBLE STANDARD WITH HIS MORE SERIOUS GIRLFRIENDS - A LA, I CAN CHEAT, BUT YOU CAN'T. YEP, WE ALL GOT THAT MEMO.

*

So, AGAIN, if you take that piece out of the equation, and you look at the songs, which again, we know were Prince's "one-sided" view of his relationships (ie: "If I was your girlfriend, would you tell me everything you forgot when I was your man..." which we know could and would not happen in a relationship with Prince, becuase he didn't commuinicate like that), yet it's still how he personally felt about someone and the relationship at that time, then I think it's pretty obvious how deep (in his complex mind) his feelings were for Susannah Melvoin.
*

Here's a thought - let's just take NC2U completely off the table, and focus on Empty Room, Forever In My Life, If I Was Your Girlfriend, and In This Bed I Scream - which have all been confirmed to have been inspired by Susannah. Unless your position is that he just randomly made up shit to sing about that didn't really mean anything to him, then these 4 songs alone demonstrate her importance in his life.

I wonder if he was always so closed off in his relationships. It seemed he would only allow someone to get so close before the walls would come up and he would begin to shut them out,pushing them away eventually. He seems to be alluding to that in the lyrics to "Breakdown" I wonder if he didn't feel that he deserved to be happy or loved and in turn ended up sabotaging a relationship. He said in "2morrow" "I don't want to be happy. I'd rather cry." and in "Way Back Home" "I never wanted a typical life,a scripted role,a trophy wife. All I ever wanted was to be left alone." It seems he may have been realizing that he wasn't cut out for marriage and was becoming content with the idea of being alone.

Yes, I agree. It seems, based on several songs, that eventually he knew his emotional complexities would push the women away from him, and he would end up alone again.

*

It's extremely sad, really. Although, as Wendy Melvoin once said, it inspired some amazing music. I guess that was the trade-off

[Edited 1/12/19 10:58am]

pinkcashmere23 said:

violetcrush said:

I'll just put his lyrics here to the song he wrote for Wendy, Lisa, and Susannah for you to read and absorb, and then we can discuss how "unimportant" she was to Prince. Oh, and I'm still waiting for your take on his expressing how "unimportant she was to him in songs like Forever In My Life, Empty Room, Wally, Come Home

*

In This Bed Scream is the twelfth and final track on the first disc of Prince's 19th album Emancipation, the third album to be credited to .

Basic tracking dates are unknown, but it is likely that the track was recorded in late 1995 or 1996 at Paisley Park Studios in Chanhassen, Minnesota. It was created using feedback noise produced when Prince put a guitar on the floor. It is dedicated (in reversed text) in the album's booklet to "Wendyand Lisa and Susannah",

*

To these walls I talk
Telling them what I wasn't strong enough to say
To these walls I talk
Telling them how I cried the day you went away

[Chorus]
How did we ever lose communication?
How did we ever lose each other's sound?
Baby, if you wanna, we can fix the situation
Maybe we can stop the rain from coming down

[Verse 2]
In this bed I scream
Lonely nights I lay awake thinking of you
And if I'm cursed with a dream
A thousand times I feel whatever I've put you through

[Bridge]
Tell me, how're we gonna put this back together?
How're we gonna think with the same mind?
Knowing all along that life is so much better
Living and loving together all the time
Living and loving
In this bed I, in this bed I, in this bed I scream

[Verse 3]
In this car I drive
I'm looking for the road that leads back To the soul we shared
With my very life
I'd gladly be the body upon the cross we bear (Cross we bear)

[Chorus]
How did we ever lose communication?
How did we ever lose each other's sound?
Baby, if you wanna, we can fix the situation
Maybe we can stop the rain from coming down

[Outro]
Maybe we can't, maybe we can
Stop the rain, stop the rain
In this bed I, in this bed I, in this bed I scream
I scream
In this bed I scream

*

Oh yes - seems Prince really could have cared less about Susannah

I love this song. He really seemed like he was reaching out. I assume that they were not in communication at the time those lyrics were written. In the clips from the Musicology tour doc it showed Wendy and Sheila talking with Prince before a show so it appears they were close again by that time and with Wendy joining him for the apprearance on Tavis Smiley.

I have my own thoughts about what was going on at this time, which of course, I won't get into here - but you and I have had some discussions about it

*

Yes, I think Wendy and Lisa had a few "rough patches" with Prince - namely when he backed out of the Roadhouse Garden release because of their sexuality, but Prince always came back around.