OldFriends4Sale said:

SoulAlive said:

Just from observation... I think Prince reacted like that because 1. he was in a darker mood that increased into the later 1987 period as others in the camp said was because of the break up of the Revolution and Susannah 2. That Jill Jones did not believe in him and his scene and vision, not that she didn't but I think that might be how Prince was interpreting things.

Interestingly,Sheila E. also had similiar problems in 1988 when Prince was attempting to produce her fourth album.She wasn't crazy about the tracks,one of which was the widely circulating "Girl Power".She complained that many of the songs "don't have melody".I think that the late 80s was a rough time for Prince.He was having a hard time keeping the empire together,as folks got restless and wanted to do their own thing.

SoulAlive said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Just from observation... I think Prince reacted like that because 1. he was in a darker mood that increased into the later 1987 period as others in the camp said was because of the break up of the Revolution and Susannah 2. That Jill Jones did not believe in him and his scene and vision, not that she didn't but I think that might be how Prince was interpreting things.

Interestingly,Sheila E. also had similiar problems in 1988 when Prince was attempting to produce her fourth album.She wasn't crazy about the tracks,one of which was the widely circulating "Girl Power".She complained that many of the songs "don't have melody".I think that the late 80s was a rough time for Prince.He was having a hard time keeping the empire together,as folks got restless and wanted to do their own thing.

I always wondered if Prince hadn't been such a control freak and had allowed his talented partners to develop and have input into the work produced if "the empire" would have turned out differently... For instance, Lewis and Jam producing hit albums under the Paisley Park umbrella...

SoulAlive said:

Wow. I really think Prince could be a cool ass dude if he was just your friend or business partner . I think the ones that were like his sister's, they always seem to think so highly of him and seem to have the best memories of him. The romantic ones...like WTF Prince, what is that kind of thing to say? He always seemed to treat his loves like Crap.

SoulAlive said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Just from observation... I think Prince reacted like that because 1. he was in a darker mood that increased into the later 1987 period as others in the camp said was because of the break up of the Revolution and Susannah 2. That Jill Jones did not believe in him and his scene and vision, not that she didn't but I think that might be how Prince was interpreting things.

Interestingly,Sheila E. also had similiar problems in 1988 when Prince was attempting to produce her fourth album.She wasn't crazy about the tracks,one of which was the widely circulating "Girl Power".She complained that many of the songs "don't have melody".I think that the late 80s was a rough time for Prince.He was having a hard time keeping the empire together,as folks got restless and wanted to do their own thing.

Yes, this is the period where Prince began to struggle with his sound and style. The "pop" sound was changing, and rap/hiphop were coming on strong. Then he went into the preachier stuff with LoveSexy and GB, then tried to compete with rap/hiphop, then the name change, then the NPG rock trio.....the late 80's and 90's were a tough time for him.

purplethunder3121 said:

SoulAlive said:

Interestingly,Sheila E. also had similiar problems in 1988 when Prince was attempting to produce her fourth album.She wasn't crazy about the tracks,one of which was the widely circulating "Girl Power".She complained that many of the songs "don't have melody".I think that the late 80s was a rough time for Prince.He was having a hard time keeping the empire together,as folks got restless and wanted to do their own thing.

I always wondered if Prince hadn't been such a control freak and had allowed his talented partners to develop and have input into the work produced if "the empire" would have turned out differently... For instance, Lewis and Jam producing hit albums under the Paisley Park umbrella...

I feel the same way. The people are musicians/artists. Just like he felt WB later was controlling his creativity, he did the same but in a different way or a more direct way to the musicians in his camp.

.

Once he knew that they all had the sound the vibe he should have been more open. There is no doubt they created unreleases music in the camp, and him hearing the rehearsals and jam session understood they could replicate the sound and vision. The Revolution(1978-1986) had more creative input even on the protege albums, but the proteges did not, which if they did you would have had a bigger solid success. I get the first Time album coming about as it did, but the 2nd should have had more songs with the Time actually performing, even if it was a total Prince production. Then let them produce a B side and 1 or 2 songs that fit the vibe of the album. Same with Sheile E's 1984-1986 GL Romance 1600 band, the Family and Madhouse. And having all that creative/producing energy and knowledge would have made Paisley Park a more successful label and venture. Not to mention JJ and TL should not have been fired. That sealed the end of the Time.

SoulAlive said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Just from observation... I think Prince reacted like that because 1. he was in a darker mood that increased into the later 1987 period as others in the camp said was because of the break up of the Revolution and Susannah 2. That Jill Jones did not believe in him and his scene and vision, not that she didn't but I think that might be how Prince was interpreting things.

Interestingly,Sheila E. also had similiar problems in 1988 when Prince was attempting to produce her fourth album.She wasn't crazy about the tracks,one of which was the widely circulating "Girl Power".She complained that many of the songs "don't have melody".I think that the late 80s was a rough time for Prince.He was having a hard time keeping the empire together,as folks got restless and wanted to do their own thing.

Yep, I really believe the 'musical community' affect of that 1982-1986 period, being gone in 1988 had a lot to do with the struggle. that 1982-1986 period really did have a 'movement' cultural flow.

.

yep, and she already talked about wanting to be seen as a musician again and not just a hot girl in the front of the band, and that 4th album sounded like it was going to push a further sex pot image that she didn't want. And I remember that interview about the music no longer having melody.

OldFriends4Sale said:

purplethunder3121 said:

I always wondered if Prince hadn't been such a control freak and had allowed his talented partners to develop and have input into the work produced if "the empire" would have turned out differently... For instance, Lewis and Jam producing hit albums under the Paisley Park umbrella...

I feel the same way. The people are musicians/artists. Just like he felt WB later was controlling his creativity, he did the same but in a different way or a more direct way to the musicians in his camp.

.

Once he knew that they all had the sound the vibe he should have been more open. There is no doubt they created unreleases music in the camp, and him hearing the rehearsals and jam session understood they could replicate the sound and vision. The Revolution(1978-1986) had more creative input even on the protege albums, but the proteges did not, which if they did you would have had a bigger solid success. I get the first Time album coming about as it did, but the 2nd should have had more songs with the Time actually performing, even if it was a total Prince production. Then let them produce a B side and 1 or 2 songs that fit the vibe of the album. Same with Sheile E's 1984-1986 GL Romance 1600 band, the Family and Madhouse. And having all that creative/producing energy and knowledge would have made Paisley Park a more successful label and venture. Not to mention JJ and TL should not have been fired. That sealed the end of the Time.

Exactly.Prince wanted to control everything,which worked for a little while but there comes a point when artists don't wanna be known as puppets.They have ideas of their own.When Prince heard Jam and Lewis' first hit production ("Just Be Good To Me" by SOS Band),he should have been proud and eager to keep them in the camp....so that they could give some of those great songs to the Prince proteges.Instead,Prince acted like they were competing with him and betraying him.He let his ego get in the way.

SoulAlive said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

I feel the same way. The people are musicians/artists. Just like he felt WB later was controlling his creativity, he did the same but in a different way or a more direct way to the musicians in his camp.

.

Once he knew that they all had the sound the vibe he should have been more open. There is no doubt they created unreleases music in the camp, and him hearing the rehearsals and jam session understood they could replicate the sound and vision. The Revolution(1978-1986) had more creative input even on the protege albums, but the proteges did not, which if they did you would have had a bigger solid success. I get the first Time album coming about as it did, but the 2nd should have had more songs with the Time actually performing, even if it was a total Prince production. Then let them produce a B side and 1 or 2 songs that fit the vibe of the album. Same with Sheile E's 1984-1986 GL Romance 1600 band, the Family and Madhouse. And having all that creative/producing energy and knowledge would have made Paisley Park a more successful label and venture. Not to mention JJ and TL should not have been fired. That sealed the end of the Time.

Exactly.Prince wanted to control everything,which worked for a little while but there comes a point when artists don't wanna be known as puppets.They have ideas of their own.When Prince heard Jam and Lewis' first hit production ("Just Be Good To Me" by SOS Band),he should have been proud and eager to keep them in the camp....so that they could give some of those great songs to the Prince proteges.Instead,Prince acted like they were competing with him and betraying him.He let his ego get in the way.

Yep 1982 should have been the year he opened up, his kingdom would have increased, that community would have solidified and the next era would have been grander.

He would not feel like he has too much on the table and would have had the trust in people to help make the project successful.

OldFriends4Sale said:

SoulAlive said:

Exactly.Prince wanted to control everything,which worked for a little while but there comes a point when artists don't wanna be known as puppets.They have ideas of their own.When Prince heard Jam and Lewis' first hit production ("Just Be Good To Me" by SOS Band),he should have been proud and eager to keep them in the camp....so that they could give some of those great songs to the Prince proteges.Instead,Prince acted like they were competing with him and betraying him.He let his ego get in the way.

Yep 1982 should have been the year he opened up, his kingdom would have increased, that community would have solidified and the next era would have been grander.

He would not feel like he has too much on the table and would have had the trust in people to help make the project successful.

The consequence of demanding full control of every decision is losing good people

violetcrush said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Yep 1982 should have been the year he opened up, his kingdom would have increased, that community would have solidified and the next era would have been grander.

He would not feel like he has too much on the table and would have had the trust in people to help make the project successful.

The consequence of demanding full control of every decision is losing good people

the possibilities

violetcrush said:

Me too When I saw the film in the 80's Jill Jones looked so white compared to Appollonia, Prince and everyone else in the film, so I just assumed she was white.

*

I posted the pics of Mariah and Minnie, because I also thought Mariah was white when she first came on to the scene. It was actually a long time before Irealized she was mixed. Everyone was comparing her to Whitney Houston in the early 90's, because she was the first one to be able to hit those notes, so when I looked at pictures of the two of them Mariah seemed white to me.

So weird! Even as a little kid I knew that she was mixed like me! I guess when you grow up in a primarily African American or mixed community you come into contact with all kinds of shades of black folk that you don't even think twice! Maybe mixed people just know our people but when I saw her like another orger mentioned she just look light-skinned black girl with bleached hair! No question.

It is unfortunate that her career didn't pan out the way she wanted! I would have loved to see more of her in the movies! She was so hot!

At the end of the day things work out the way they are supposed to and who knows she may have avoided a terrible fate! We all must count our blessings!

Sad to hear P was being such a douche to her, harshly telling her to get implants and dye her hair. She mentioned she was married then so it could have been some displaced anger. Again he was having problems of his own and it sounds like he just lashed out on her. We tend to hurt those we love.

MonaLiza said:

violetcrush said:

Me too When I saw the film in the 80's Jill Jones looked so white compared to Appollonia, Prince and everyone else in the film, so I just assumed she was white.

*

I posted the pics of Mariah and Minnie, because I also thought Mariah was white when she first came on to the scene. It was actually a long time before Irealized she was mixed. Everyone was comparing her to Whitney Houston in the early 90's, because she was the first one to be able to hit those notes, so when I looked at pictures of the two of them Mariah seemed white to me.

So weird! Even as a little kid I knew that she was mixed like me! I guess when you grow up in a primarily African American or mixed community you come into contact with all kinds of shades of black folk that you don't even think twice! Maybe mixed people just know our people but when I saw her like another orger mentioned she just look light-skinned black girl with bleached hair! No question.

It is unfortunate that her career didn't pan out the way she wanted! I would have loved to see more of her in the movies! She was so hot!

At the end of the day things work out the way they are supposed to and who knows she may have avoided a terrible fate! We all must count our blessings!

Sad to hear P was being such a douche to her, harshly telling her to get implants and dye her hair. She mentioned she was married then so it could have been some displaced anger. Again he was having problems of his own and it sounds like he just lashed out on her. We tend to hurt those we love.

i'm mixed and grew up around a LOT of mixed people and many who where closer to looking European or another ethnic group, but for me I was overcome by the vapors about the excitement of the movie, that I didn't see it. Nothing registered. I believe the women Jerome dumped in the trash bin is mixed too, but she could be a lot of things. The movie just continues to moves so fast, and I'm that guy looking at other details, like the clothes or what's happening inthe background especially in the dressing room or the basement

OldFriends4Sale said:

MonaLiza said:

So weird! Even as a little kid I knew that she was mixed like me! I guess when you grow up in a primarily African American or mixed community you come into contact with all kinds of shades of black folk that you don't even think twice! Maybe mixed people just know our people but when I saw her like another orger mentioned she just look light-skinned black girl with bleached hair! No question.

It is unfortunate that her career didn't pan out the way she wanted! I would have loved to see more of her in the movies! She was so hot!

At the end of the day things work out the way they are supposed to and who knows she may have avoided a terrible fate! We all must count our blessings!

Sad to hear P was being such a douche to her, harshly telling her to get implants and dye her hair. She mentioned she was married then so it could have been some displaced anger. Again he was having problems of his own and it sounds like he just lashed out on her. We tend to hurt those we love.

i'm mixed and grew up around a LOT of mixed people and many who where closer to looking European or another ethnic group, but for me I was overcome by the vapors about the excitement of the movie, that I didn't see it. Nothing registered. I believe the women Jerome dumped in the trash bin is mixed too, but she could be a lot of things. The movie just continues to moves so fast, and I'm that guy looking at other details, like the clothes or what's happening inthe background especially in the dressing room or the basement

I'm white, and I just assumed Jill Jones was white when I saw the film back in the 80's. Nothing about her said mixed or black to me. She just looked and sounded like a white girl, especially compared to Susan M or Appollonia. I also thought the "dumpster girl" was white. She was very fair with dark hair - similar to Wendy and Lisa.

*

But yes, I was also not focused on the race thing back then - just into the story and the music.

violetcrush said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

i'm mixed and grew up around a LOT of mixed people and many who where closer to looking European or another ethnic group, but for me I was overcome by the vapors about the excitement of the movie, that I didn't see it. Nothing registered. I believe the women Jerome dumped in the trash bin is mixed too, but she could be a lot of things. The movie just continues to moves so fast, and I'm that guy looking at other details, like the clothes or what's happening inthe background especially in the dressing room or the basement

I'm white, and I just assumed Jill Jones was white when I saw the film back in the 80's. Nothing about her said mixed or black to me. She just looked and sounded like a white girl, especially compared to Susan M or Appollonia. I also thought the "dumpster girl" was white. She was very fair with dark hair - similar to Wendy and Lisa.

*

But yes, I was also not focused on the race thing back then - just into the story and the music.

Sandra Claire Gershman, I couldn't find anything on her. I think for a minute way back in 1984 when watching it again I might have thought she was JJ the waitress