violetcrush said:

databank said:

I don't think so. I am not aware of a single occurence of Prince declining to give a song to another artist before 1994 (after which he most likely didn't want to anymore because of masters ownership, though it's never been confirmed but the sudden disappearance of Prince as a songwriter/producer for other acts seems to indicate it). Prince would give away songs to anyone who'd ask them between 1984 and 1993, including some pretty low level acts or acts whose work had little to nothing to do with his. The royalties generated by it were a significant source of income for him.

Right, but I always thought - with the exception of WB giving NC2U to Sinead without his approval - that he offered songs to people of his choice, like Sheena, The Bangles, Madonna, Joe Cocker, etc. I would think he would pick and choose who he wanted to have the songs at any given time. For instance, I read that he gave his song Van Gogh (originally titled Love Is by Sandra St Victor) to the group Van Gogh (and I guess he re-named the song with them in mind), because he wanted to give a song to a musician with a disability (per princevault.com). So, I'm not sure how random those choices were.

*

Paul Peterson stated in an interview that when he talked to Prince about Sinead's cover of NC2U Prince said he didn't like the cover. Paul commented on the big check he got for it, and Prince said he didn't care about the money. I'm sure that money came in handy for him during his downturn in the early 90's, but he seemed to care more about the music and how it was done.

WB didn't give NC2U to Sinead (it wasn't theirs to give anyway), she just took it after her manager suggested she covers it. Anyone can cover a song without anyone's permission, which is what pissed Prince so much.

Prince didn't like people covering his songs and apparently to the point that he'd rather not have had the income, but covers and giving songs to others are 2 entirely different things. Prince didn't like not having the power to prevent people from covering his songs any more than he liked not owning his masters. It was a control issue.

.

Now when it came to giving them believe me he wasn't picky. The Van Gogh story is true, there would be times when Prince would spontaneously offer a song to someone (and sometimes be turned down, as happened with Joni Mitchell among others), or he'd befriend an artist and it would eventually come sort of naturally that he'd give them a track or two, but many other times people would ask him for a song, several such situations are documented and I am not aware of single time where Prince turned anyone down.

.

An odd occurence is when he reportedly asked Ren Woods to remove I Don't Wanna Stop from her record in 1982 after it was released, presumably because he hated the arrangements. It was the first time ever he'd give a song away and he probably had a hard time "letting go" of the track: he would later play the game and acknowledge that once a song was given to an artist, they were entitled to tinker with it as they pleased or even rerecord it entirely to fit the tone of their album.

.

I also know that, at least in the mid-80's, Warner Chappell (the publishing company, which is different from the label) would try to shop around already released Prince songs for people to cover in order to generate income, so it's likely they also shopped around his talents as an original songs composer, but Prince was well known as a prolific songwriter/producer and as a hitmaker, and many of his contemporaries were fans of his music, so it was only natural for them to ask. It also happened that an artist's label would ask Prince for songs because they felt it'd be a good move for their artist (at least one known example of that is Motown forcing Mark to ask Prince for tracks).

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[Edited 9/13/18 1:14am]

databank said:

violetcrush said:

Right, but I always thought - with the exception of WB giving NC2U to Sinead without his approval - that he offered songs to people of his choice, like Sheena, The Bangles, Madonna, Joe Cocker, etc. I would think he would pick and choose who he wanted to have the songs at any given time. For instance, I read that he gave his song Van Gogh (originally titled Love Is by Sandra St Victor) to the group Van Gogh (and I guess he re-named the song with them in mind), because he wanted to give a song to a musician with a disability (per princevault.com). So, I'm not sure how random those choices were.

*

Paul Peterson stated in an interview that when he talked to Prince about Sinead's cover of NC2U Prince said he didn't like the cover. Paul commented on the big check he got for it, and Prince said he didn't care about the money. I'm sure that money came in handy for him during his downturn in the early 90's, but he seemed to care more about the music and how it was done.

WB didn't give NC2U to Sinead (it wasn't theirs to give anyway), she just took it after her manager suggested she covers it. Anyone can cover a song without anyone's permission, which is what pissed Prince so much.

Prince didn't like people covering his songs and apparently to the point that he'd rather not have had the income, but covers and giving songs to others are 2 entirely different things. Prince didn't like not having the power to prevent people from covering his songs any more than he liked not owning his masters. It was a control issue.

.

Now when it came to giving them believe me he wasn't picky. The Van Gogh story is true, there would be times when Prince would spontaneously offer a song to someone (and sometimes be turned down, as happened with Joni Mitchell among others), or he'd befriend an artist and it would eventually come sort of naturally that he'd give them a track or two, but many other times people would ask him for a song, several such situations are documented and I am not aware of single time where Prince turned anyone down.

.

An odd occurence is when he reportedly asked Ren Woods to remove I Don't Wanna Stop from her record in 1982 after it was released, presumably because he hated the arrangements. It was the first time ever he'd give a song away and he probably had a hard time "letting go" of the track: he would later play the game and acknowledge that once a song was given to an artist, they were entitled to tinker with it as they pleased or even rerecord it entirely to fit the tone of their album.

.

I also know that, at least in the mid-80's, Warner Chappell (the publishing company, which is different from the label) would try to shop around already released Prince songs for people to cover in order to generate income, so it's likely they also shopped around his talents as an original songs composer, but Prince was well known as a prolific songwriter/producer and as a hitmaker, and many of his contemporaries were fans of his music, so it was only natural for them to ask. It also happened that an artist's label would ask Prince for songs because they felt it'd be a good move for their artist (at least one known example of that is Motown forcing Mark to ask Prince for tracks).

.

[Edited 9/13/18 1:14am]

I hear what you are saying with all of this, and I agree, but with regard to Appollonia trying to release her own record - I just see Prince not really wanting to be associated with it, because she could not sing, and she's not a musician. Or, he also may not have liked who was producing the record. Remember, he spent lots of time with her in the recording studio trying to get those A6 songs done, so he knew very well the depth of her talent for singing. Susan Rogers has stated they spent a long time working with her to get what they needed on those songs.

*

I recently watched a YT video of Appollonia performing with Susan and Brenda (as Appollonia 6) in 1984 on some talk show, and they lip synced the song Sex Shooter. As far as I know, she never sang any of the A6 songs live. The performance was also very stiff and she looked nervous and uncomfortable. Vanity, in my opinion, was strictly an average singer, however, she could perform the songs decently live, and had a good stage presence. She was a more natural performer.

*

I think if Prince thought that Appollonia had enough natural talent to have a successful record he would have added her to the PP roster back in the mid to late 80's.

violetcrush said:

databank said:

WB didn't give NC2U to Sinead (it wasn't theirs to give anyway), she just took it after her manager suggested she covers it. Anyone can cover a song without anyone's permission, which is what pissed Prince so much.

Prince didn't like people covering his songs and apparently to the point that he'd rather not have had the income, but covers and giving songs to others are 2 entirely different things. Prince didn't like not having the power to prevent people from covering his songs any more than he liked not owning his masters. It was a control issue.

.

Now when it came to giving them believe me he wasn't picky. The Van Gogh story is true, there would be times when Prince would spontaneously offer a song to someone (and sometimes be turned down, as happened with Joni Mitchell among others), or he'd befriend an artist and it would eventually come sort of naturally that he'd give them a track or two, but many other times people would ask him for a song, several such situations are documented and I am not aware of single time where Prince turned anyone down.

.

An odd occurence is when he reportedly asked Ren Woods to remove I Don't Wanna Stop from her record in 1982 after it was released, presumably because he hated the arrangements. It was the first time ever he'd give a song away and he probably had a hard time "letting go" of the track: he would later play the game and acknowledge that once a song was given to an artist, they were entitled to tinker with it as they pleased or even rerecord it entirely to fit the tone of their album.

.

I also know that, at least in the mid-80's, Warner Chappell (the publishing company, which is different from the label) would try to shop around already released Prince songs for people to cover in order to generate income, so it's likely they also shopped around his talents as an original songs composer, but Prince was well known as a prolific songwriter/producer and as a hitmaker, and many of his contemporaries were fans of his music, so it was only natural for them to ask. It also happened that an artist's label would ask Prince for songs because they felt it'd be a good move for their artist (at least one known example of that is Motown forcing Mark to ask Prince for tracks).

.

[Edited 9/13/18 1:14am]

I hear what you are saying with all of this, and I agree, but with regard to Appollonia trying to release her own record - I just see Prince not really wanting to be associated with it, because she could not sing, and she's not a musician. Or, he also may not have liked who was producing the record. Remember, he spent lots of time with her in the recording studio trying to get those A6 songs done, so he knew very well the depth of her talent for singing. Susan Rogers has stated they spent a long time working with her to get what they needed on those songs.

*

I recently watched a YT video of Appollonia performing with Susan and Brenda (as Appollonia 6) in 1984 on some talk show, and they lip synced the song Sex Shooter. As far as I know, she never sang any of the A6 songs live. The performance was also very stiff and she looked nervous and uncomfortable. Vanity, in my opinion, was strictly an average singer, however, she could perform the songs decently live, and had a good stage presence. She was a more natural performer.

*

I think if Prince thought that Appollonia had enough natural talent to have a successful record he would have added her to the PP roster back in the mid to late 80's.

IDK. I really know nothing of the story behind Apples' solo album. It would be interesting if she or anyone else involved would be interviewed about it. But Prince was friends with Apples so I really don't know why he wouldn't give her songs if requested. I doubt her vocal talents were his concern, since he wouldn't have been involved in the vocal tracks' recordings. But who knows...

databank said:

violetcrush said:

I hear what you are saying with all of this, and I agree, but with regard to Appollonia trying to release her own record - I just see Prince not really wanting to be associated with it, because she could not sing, and she's not a musician. Or, he also may not have liked who was producing the record. Remember, he spent lots of time with her in the recording studio trying to get those A6 songs done, so he knew very well the depth of her talent for singing. Susan Rogers has stated they spent a long time working with her to get what they needed on those songs.

*

I recently watched a YT video of Appollonia performing with Susan and Brenda (as Appollonia 6) in 1984 on some talk show, and they lip synced the song Sex Shooter. As far as I know, she never sang any of the A6 songs live. The performance was also very stiff and she looked nervous and uncomfortable. Vanity, in my opinion, was strictly an average singer, however, she could perform the songs decently live, and had a good stage presence. She was a more natural performer.

*

I think if Prince thought that Appollonia had enough natural talent to have a successful record he would have added her to the PP roster back in the mid to late 80's.

IDK. I really know nothing of the story behind Apples' solo album. It would be interesting if she or anyone else involved would be interviewed about it. But Prince was friends with Apples so I really don't know why he wouldn't give her songs if requested. I doubt her vocal talents were his concern, since he wouldn't have been involved in the vocal tracks' recordings. But who knows...

Right, it would be interesting to hear more about any plan she had for a solo record. I guess if she writes a book ....

*

I still think that on some level Prince needed to feel okay about giving songs to people with regard to their talent - friend or not. Or, it may have just been related to the fact that she was out of "the camp", so to speak, and he was done collaborating with her musically.

violetcrush said:

databank said:

IDK. I really know nothing of the story behind Apples' solo album. It would be interesting if she or anyone else involved would be interviewed about it. But Prince was friends with Apples so I really don't know why he wouldn't give her songs if requested. I doubt her vocal talents were his concern, since he wouldn't have been involved in the vocal tracks' recordings. But who knows...

Right, it would be interesting to hear more about any plan she had for a solo record. I guess if she writes a book ....

*

I still think that on some level Prince needed to feel okay about giving songs to people with regard to their talent - friend or not. Or, it may have just been related to the fact that she was out of "the camp", so to speak, and he was done collaborating with her musically.

I'm much more inclined to believe that she/WB didn't ask. But who knows...

I was listening to Apollonia's solo album the other day and I still enjoy listening 2 it after all these years. When I first heard it I was pleasantly surprised by how nice her singing was. You can hear all her words unlike some singers who don't have clear diction. She hits all of the notes so she CAN hold a tune. With Apollonia it's just a case of finding the right song 4 her. My favourite song on the album is Your Eyes.

luv4u said:

jungleluv said:

malbena said:

violetcrush said:

SNAAAP!
I have to respectfully agree

TrivialPursuit said:

I'm going to say this as kindly as I can without being corrected or snipped by a moderator (which would be well within their rights to do), but you should really [Snip - luv4u]. You are randomly picking out a female to bash for the sake of doing so and it's sickening. Apollonia is a wonderful human being who has been married longer than most people any of us know who is in the same age bracket. She did remain friends with Prince after Purple Rain and her silence on him & not selling her story etc proves that (nda aside)

She doesn't need notoriety. She's fucking Apollonia. She was in Purple Rain, and you know who she is, so that says more than anything people know about you, other than your attempt at a shitpost about her. You think you have some exclusive right to judge who and who was not near to Prince? Perhaps we all missed that memo.

Lastly, no one is making you scroll to her page in the first place.

Just so you realize how out of place you are, perhaps you missed the artwork for "This Could B Us". [Snip - luv4u]

malbena said:

violetcrush said:

I don't know what she's been posting, but she was not a good singer or actor. She did just fine in PR, because the film was not about the acting, it was about the music and performances. She was sweet in the film, but she was hired for her look, not for her acting chops.

Amen!

Just to be clear on my comment - whiile it is known that Appollonia was not a seasoned or skilled singer and actor, she handled it all very well, and she most likely saved that film from either a big delay or cancellation. Per the Biographies, they had interviewed hundreds of girls for the part, but could not find the "right" one.

*

I think her performance fit the fiilm just fine - cute, sweet, and campy, which is how her role was supposed to be played. I also think she handled the serious scenes fine. Was she going to win an Oscar for the performance? NO....but neither were any of the others in the film.

*

She was a very important part of that film and time period. Again, I think she probably saved the film, and no doubt Prince was very grateful for that. They remained friends.