This girl was wrong to tell Denise that she knew who Prince was in his later years better than Denise did. She was wrong to talk about their relationship. As we've found out from Toban, Denise and Prince kept seeing each other on and off throughout the 80s and kept in contact through letters and possibly phone calls even in recent years. Just because this girl and Prince are part of the same religion and she is a super fan of his doesn't change those facts.

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It's quite possible that this conversation took place as she described though. Prince fans need to accept that Prince was obviously not perfect or an angel to the people in his life and some of them may have negative things to say about him. Prince fans also need to accept that the people in Prince's life knew him better than we think we do. We knew his public persona and what he chose to reveal us. They KNEW him in real life.

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That said, Denise was dogmatic and extremist when it came to religion. She did not accept other religions once she became an evangelist. Even if she didn't agree with the Jehovah Witness faith, it was wrong for her to insult it like that, especially while talking to someone who is a Jehovah.

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I had my own phone conversation with Denise once when i was asking about her book and she insulted other religions during our chat. I think she was a nice person, meant well and wanted to help people but her evangelist views did not allow her to accept different beliefs whatsoever.

[Edited 7/14/18 12:41pm]

Shard said:

This girl was wrong to tell Denise that she knew who Prince was in his later years better than Denise did. She was wrong to talk about their relationship. As we've found out from Toban, Denise and Prince kept seeing each other on and off throughout the 80s and kept in contact through letters and possibly phone calls even in recent years. Just because this girl and Prince are part of the same religion and she is a super fan of his doesn't change those facts.

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It's quite possible that this conversation took place as she described though. Prince fans need to accept that Prince was obviously not perfect or an angel to the people in his life and some of them may have negative things to say about him. Prince fans also need to accept that the people in Prince's life knew him better than we think we do. We knew his public persona and what he chose to reveal us. They KNEW him in real life.

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That said, Denise was dogmatic and extremist when it came to religion. She did not accept other religions once she became an evangelist. Even if she didn't agree with the Jehovah Witness faith, it was wrong for her to insult it like that, especially while talking to someone who is a Jehovah.

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I had my own phone conversation with Denise once when i was asking about her book and she insulted other religions during our chat. I think she was a nice person, meant well and wanted to help people but her evangelist views did not allow her to accept different beliefs whatsoever.

[Edited 7/14/18 12:41pm]

I agree with your post. That is why many associates stay on social media instead of coming here to share their stories and that is why Cat back away from org interview too because orgs talked crap about her.

Fans get on my freaking nerves of think they knew Prince better than the people they knew him. There is a recent tagged post of a fan called out fans who think they knew Prince based on his public persona and their conspiracies on Facebook, and some of the associates liked his comment. So even the associates are getting fed up with fans who believed they knew him but never met him, and the pain is still hitting them hard since they had a relationship with him even if it is complicated.

I thought Denise seemed very extreme with her views but I also separate her art from her thoughts.

Krystalkisses said:

But what if Denise did have mental health issues? What if it was the truth? I don't understand why that would be malicious if someone is saying how they found her behavior disturbing. I mean the woman certainly had been through some horrible things in her life. It is easy to imagine how those horrors can affect the human psyche.

Denise was a survivor of abuse. In her youth she blamed herself because of the abuse and abused her body with drugs until she found the Lord and received peace from God. She healed spiritually then physically, a more holistic approach, but similar to other programs that use 12 steps to coping in healthier ways from trauma. She spoke of this often enough. I will never disparge any person who finds peace, after living through such trauma.

That being said, I don't think she had "mental issues" just because she was serious about her walk in Christ. You either get her or you don't... and like Cat, Jill and others, if you but heads with her she will let you know she doesn't play. SIMPLE.

Still, she always remained graceful and patient in regards to very personal questions and strangers judgements of her. I chose to respect her and the life she lived... she turned any negativity into positivity and did her best to share a good word and was kind. RIP Denise.

Krystalkisses said:

luvgirl said:

Krystalkisses said:

luvgirl said:

I'd like to know who are the people that are saying she had mental issues? No doubt it's the people that didn't understand her tenacity or held her in high regards. I can just imagine who they are... I'm sorry, but It appears to me that you don't have much reverence for her at all. You say you are a 'huge fan' but from what I've seen with some of your comments, the only thing you ever seem to do is go along with disparaging her name when someone tries to put her down. Every one that goes through trauma doesn't have mental issues. She was zealous for the Lord on a more substantial level than most because she had an experience and awareness that was beyond the realm of normalcy. Many don't understand that unconditional conviction and try to justify it with the term, mental illness. It's very ignorant.

I'm sorry you feel that way. It seems that you are under the impression "mental health issues" has some sort of negative conatation, however it can encompass a spectrum of issues to varying degrees. I understand being passionate about something and wanting to share that with others but when someone starts damaging personal relationships over this new passion it can be a sign of something else and an underlying issue. It sounds like, from Toban's story Denise was oblivious to how her behavior was impacting others. And yes I consider Vanity's life story very inspiring and I can relate to some of the things she has said in interviews. Just because you have a criticism doesn't mean you dislike the person.

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Please. You're trying to be politically correct. Saying someone suffers from mental issues, DOES have a negative imputation. You know that. Mental illness (under varying degrees) is not a term that is revered in our society. It has a shameful stigma, like it or not. You just don't attribute that language to someone as casually and carelessly as your doing. Denise was unconstrained in her discourse due to her level of belief and understanding. She didn't suffer from mental illness. She was just telling it like she saw it.

Krystalkisses said:

But what if Denise did have mental health issues? What if it was the truth? I don't understand why that would be malicious if someone is saying how they found her behavior disturbing. I mean the woman certainly had been through some horrible things in her life. It is easy to imagine how those horrors can affect the human psyche.

Agree 100%. I've had family members that went through some long term, extremely difficult physical illnesses and those physical illnesses most definitely affected their mental health and moods/personality. I saw it occur to my mother in her last years after decades of renal disease and other physical problems. Denise went through both emotional and physical traumas and I agree with Krystalkisses - it's not out of the question to think it very possible that Denise's various struggles and physical problems affected her mental state.

Krystalkisses said:

luvgirl said:

I'd like to know who are the people that are saying she had mental issues? No doubt it's the people that didn't understand her tenacity or held her in high regards. I can just imagine who they are... I'm sorry, but It appears to me that you don't have much reverence for her at all. You say you are a 'huge fan' but from what I've seen with some of your comments, the only thing you ever seem to do is go along with disparaging her name when someone tries to put her down. Every one that goes through trauma doesn't have mental issues. She was zealous for the Lord on a more substantial level than most because she had an experience and awareness that was beyond the realm of normalcy. Many don't understand that unconditional conviction and try to justify it with the term, mental illness. It's very ignorant.

I'm sorry you feel that way. It seems that you are under the impression "mental health issues" has some sort of negative conatation, however it can encompass a spectrum of issues to varying degrees. I understand being passionate about something and wanting to share that with others but when someone starts damaging personal relationships over this new passion it can be a sign of something else and an underlying issue. It sounds like, from Toban's story Denise was oblivious to how her behavior was impacting others. And yes I consider Vanity's life story very inspiring and I can relate to some of the things she has said in interviews. Just because you have a criticism doesn't mean you dislike the person.

Again, co-sign all of this.

luvgirl said:

Krystalkisses said:

luvgirl said: I'm sorry you feel that way. It seems that you are under the impression "mental health issues" has some sort of negative conatation, however it can encompass a spectrum of issues to varying degrees. I understand being passionate about something and wanting to share that with others but when someone starts damaging personal relationships over this new passion it can be a sign of something else and an underlying issue. It sounds like, from Toban's story Denise was oblivious to how her behavior was impacting others. And yes I consider Vanity's life story very inspiring and I can relate to some of the things she has said in interviews. Just because you have a criticism doesn't mean you dislike the person.

*

Please. You're trying to be politically correct. Saying someone suffers from mental issues, DOES have a negative imputation. You know that. Mental illness (under varying degrees) is not a term that is revered in our society. It has a shameful stigma, like it or not. You just don't attribute that language to someone as casually and carelessly as your doing. Denise was unconstrained in her discourse due to her level of belief and understanding. She didn't suffer from mental illness. She was just telling it like she saw it.

Sadly, mental illness does indeed have a 'shameful stigma' and negative connotations in our society. Which is precisely why people, including Krystalkisses, are attempting to change that stigma by thoughtfully expressing what might cause someone to exhibit certain behaviors and to not see those behaviors (or any possible mental illness/es that may exist) AS that person..i.e. the person is not their illness, and having a mental illness (which like most illnesses, has SYMPTOMS that are often visible) is no more 'shameful' than having heart disease, cancer, asthma, etc. Suggesting someone may suffer from MI is NOT an insult- at least, it shouldn't be an insult and I think compassionate, objective and critically thinking people understand that. I think perhaps you need to understand that IF Denise had any kind of mental illness, that doesn't make her a 'bad person' or someone to be considered 'stigmatized' in any way.

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By the way, I have severe clinical depression, anxiety, and possibly at least one other mental illness that my psychiatrist is currently assessing. I've been hospitalized multiple times on...GASP! The MENTAL HEALTH UNIT. Should I be ashamed or considered a pariah or "crazy" because I have these issues/illnesses? Because that's how you come across in your post. But guess what? I'm not ashamed. Just like my friend who has a brain tumor isn't ashamed of her disease.

[Edited 7/15/18 12:58pm]

LilaLiebe said:

luvgirl said:

LilaLiebe said:

Sadly, mental illness does indeed have a 'shameful stigma' and negative connotations in our society. Which is precisely why people, including Krystalkisses, are attempting to change that stigma by thoughtfully expressing what might cause someone to exhibit certain behaviors and to not see those behaviors (or any possible mental illness/es that may exist) AS that person..i.e. the person is not their illness, and having a mental illness (which like most illnesses, has SYMPTOMS that are often visible) is no more 'shameful' than having heart disease, cancer, asthma, etc. Suggesting someone may suffer from MI is NOT an insult- at least, it shouldn't be an insult and I think compassionate, objective and critically thinking people understand that. I think perhaps you need to understand that IF Denise had any kind of mental illness, that doesn't make her a 'bad person' or someone to be considered 'stigmatized' in any way.

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By the way, I have severe clinical depression, anxiety, and possibly at least one other mental illness that my psychiatrist is currently assessing. I've been hospitalized multiple times on...GASP! The MENTAL HEALTH UNIT. Should I be ashamed or considered a pariah or "crazy" because I have these issues/illnesses? Because that's how you come across in your post. But guess what? I'm not ashamed. Just like my friend who has a brain tumor isn't ashamed of her disease.

[Edited 7/15/18 12:58pm]

You misunderstood my comment. I think you need to understand the difference in someone expressing the views of society in conjunction to their own personal beliefs. No where did I ever state that I personally thought someone with mental illness was shameful or someone to be considered stigmatized. And your comment that I would possibly think that Denise was a bad person If she did suffer from mental illness was an absolute ridiculous and far fetched measure of my statement. I don’t believe Denise suffered from mental illness. She was just on fire for the Lord in an unconstrained manner than most. That doesn’t mean that I now think that mental illness is a horrible dreadful disease and if she did suffer from the disease, I will be ashamed and think she was a bad person and someone to be stigmatized... lol, Come on. Let’s not pick out only words from a comment and leave out the true content to make a point. [Edited 7/15/18 15:42pm]

I did not pick out particular words and "leave out the true content" of your post only to "make a point". I used words YOU used in your post, words you used in conjunction with mental illness, to respond to the larger issue of mental illness stigmatizing a person, because essentially you told Krystalkisses to not even suggest Denise may have had mental illness as though the idea of that possibility was insulting to Denise.

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Thank you for clarifying that you don't think people with mental illness should be stigmatized. I apologize if I misunderstood that aspect of your post.

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As for Denise specifically, and this is just my own opinion, but I don't think being "on fire for the Lord" or preaching in an "unconstrained manner" should equate to insulting people personally nor disrespecting their religion or religious beliefs. I also think some of the behaviors I've seen of Denise's FB interactions were a little strange (meaning, rage or at least, a degree of anger not appropriate to the situation)...stuff like that. That is not respectful nor very loving behavior, and I do NOT believe Denise was a disrespectful or unkind or intolerant person at her core. I think there were things which caused her to sometimes not have the filter or awareness she'd have normally. That woman went through a LOT in her life and those things, plus meds or physical changes due to her health struggles, CAN affect how a person acts, reacts, and relates to others. I actually think it's more insulting and unflattering TO DENISE to just say "Oh that's just how she was! She was just so on fire for the Lord she could sometimes be mean, or didn't care about being kind, respectful, or tolerant of anybody else's beliefs!" Denise was not a person who would actively choose to behave in a hurtful way towards anybody, in my opinion. I think there were other factors at play that affected her behavior. JMO

[Edited 7/15/18 16:27pm]

LilaLiebe said:

luvgirl said:

LilaLiebe said:

I did not pick out particular words and "leave out the true content" of your post only to "make a point". I used words YOU used in your post, words you used in conjunction with mental illness, to respond to the larger issue of mental illness stigmatizing a person, because essentially you told Krystalkisses to not even suggest Denise may have had mental illness as though the idea of that possibility was insulting to Denise.

*

Thank you for clarifying that you don't think people with mental illness should be stigmatized. I apologize if I misunderstood that aspect of your post.

*

As for Denise specifically, and this is just my own opinion, but I don't think being "on fire for the Lord" or preaching in an "unconstrained manner" should equate to insulting people personally nor disrespecting their religion or religious beliefs. I also think some of the behaviors I've seen of Denise's FB interactions were a little strange (meaning, rage or at least, a degree of anger not appropriate to the situation)...stuff like that. That is not respectful nor very loving behavior, and I do NOT believe Denise was a disrespectful or unkind or intolerant person at her core. I think there were things which caused her to sometimes not have the filter or awareness she'd have normally. That woman went through a LOT in her life and those things, plus meds or physical changes due to her health struggles, CAN affect how a person acts, reacts, and relates to others. I actually think it's more insulting and unflattering TO DENISE to just say "Oh that's just how she was! She was just so on fire for the Lord she could sometimes be mean, or didn't care about being kind, respectful, or tolerant of anybody else's beliefs!" Denise was not a person who would actively choose to behave in a hurtful way towards anybody, in my opinion. I think there were other factors at play that affected her behavior. JMO

[Edited 7/15/18 16:27pm]

Seems to me, you are trying to place her in a box that you want her to be in, a box that makes you feel comfortable. A box where she would fit and conform with everyone else. Something that you could understand and relate to. She wasn’t that.

Interesting perspective. A box? Conform? Hardly. She wouldn't have been who she was had she 'conformed' with everyone else; she was one of a kind, for sure, and you don't have to inform me of that, thanks though. What I'm trying to say is: one can be unique, non-conformist and even eccentric yet be able to convey one's passions, share one's beliefs (religious or otherwise) and express oneself without tearing down anybody else in the process, or coming across as hurtful/angry/intolerant and as I said previously, I don't believe Denise was truly any of those negative things - but it is my opinion that certain factors altered the way she interacted with others and reacted to others in her later years. Seems to me that you're the one trying to keep her in only ONE paradigm, and are refusing to even entertain the possibility of anyone else's thoughts about her behavior/s. Note: I'm not claiming Denise had or didn't have a MI, I don't know that for sure and I didn't know her. I'm stating outright that I'm merely speculating and that these are my opinions only while you seem utterly positive you're right, and you use such definitive language when talking about her and her life. Again...interesting.

[Edited 7/15/18 19:11pm]

Six years is long enough. Your friend should go on and put this burden down, she said her peace, she should forgive Denise and move on.

Privately I have said the same to others that ask forgiveness for some unfinished business they had with Denise.

For her own peace of mind your friend should consider removing the tweet, that is if she is one of Jehovah’s Witnesses. If she isn’t I would not have even bother responding to this thread. Which should tell you that is not an attempt to defending Denise.

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It sounds like the conversation should never have happened, unless there was some misguided intent or agenda that was deliberately left out of the story.

It’s a nonsensical story with no context to base the relationship other than buyer/seller and writer/reader.

Her open question is leading and her closing comment is misleading; as if to falsely imply a long history and not speaking is the end result.

The tweet alone would make me suspect that someone is just trying to sell their book. This post would immediately further that suspicion.

Your friend doesn’t need a reason to sell or get rid of Denise book.

Holding on to the book for six years while holding this grudge makes no sense, especially coming from someone who claims to be a Christian Witness.

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The wages is of sin are paid… neither Prince nor Denise need defending.

Honestly this is not good look because your friend is claiming to be a representative (witness) of God Jehovah and Christ Jesus. This is not being Christ-Like.

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Furthermore, what did Denise suddenly do 2½ years after her death that makes your friend suddenly say the book has to go?

In fact why does she mention the book at all?

If she has been in conflict for 6 years and she wishes her money back I will happily accept the book from her.

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Toban said:

luvgirl said:

LilaLiebe said:

LilaLiebe said:

Krystalkisses said:

luvgirl said:

Let me just say that I knew Denise very well. We talked all the time and mind you, I knew her for years and years. Not one time did she ever speal ill of Prince or anyone else. Not once. That wasn't her thing. The most she would say was that she was praying for them and she had no ill feelings towards anyone. That's the Denise that I knew, loved, and respected.