pinkcashmere23 said:

I think there needs to be another forum: Prince and the Women He Loved

Leave Associated artists & people as "ex-bandmembers, ex-employees, people he collaborated with" instead of "ex-bandmembers, ex-girlfriends, etc..."

It is hard to come to this forum to look for information on band members when the number of threads discussing Prince's love life, who Prince loved more, which woman was The One, etc., seems to be the majority of threads over here.

Much of what is talked about in each of the threads involving the exes are the same pictures, the same articles, getting rehashed in each thread as proof to show this is who he loved more.

Personally, I think each of the women brought something to Prince and made him happy while they were together, and none of them were the LOVE of his life. I think they all were loved deeply at various times. I think he continued to care for all of them after the relationships ended, in the same way that we tend to care for those that we were involved with, after the relationships ended. At first, there may be some anger, confusion, and hurt feelings, but as time goes on, those feelings eventually mellow out and we tend to remember the better times more than we do the bad. We don't spend our lives (or at least I hope no one does, because that would be a very painful existence) lamenting the loss of the one that got away and pining after them for the rest of our lives. We may think of them from time to time, but we let them go and we move on with our lives and we meet someone else who we give all of our love to. The whole idea that Prince spent his time pining after this woman or that, that he never moved on from this woman or that one, I don't know how anyone could wish that kind of torment and pain on Prince. And if he were to have done that, that's not love, that's obsession and that is not healthy (nor romantic).

It's like the whole Mani episode, a lot of people blame Mani for the split from Mayte because she moved in on a married man. It takes two to tangle. If Prince were not open to cheating on Mayte, then Mani wouldn't have gotten close to him. Period. He was not innocent in that scenario. And Vanity/Denise was heavy into drugs, and if you've ever been around anyone that uses drugs like that, they have very unhealthy relationships. And Mayte was young when they met and was not fully developed emotionally, nor mentally, and as we all do, we change as we grow up and discover who we want to be as an adult. Those relationships from youth tend to be very emotional, needy, dependent, until we gain the maturity of handling a real relationship and it becomes more refined. None of the relationships Prince had were perfect. Each of them had their issues and Prince wasn't innocent. But people want to romanticize the women that Prince dated, married, had sex with. Prince was someone, when he moved on, he moved on. Too bad his fans couldn't.

benni said:

anangellooksdown said:

benni said:

I think there needs to be another forum: Prince and the Women He Loved

Leave Associated artists & people as "ex-bandmembers, ex-employees, people he collaborated with" instead of "ex-bandmembers, ex-girlfriends, etc..."

It is hard to come to this forum to look for information on band members when the number of threads discussing Prince's love life, who Prince loved more, which woman was The One, etc., seems to be the majority of threads over here.

Much of what is talked about in each of the threads involving the exes are the same pictures, the same articles, getting rehashed in each thread as proof to show this is who he loved more.

Personally, I think each of the women brought something to Prince and made him happy while they were together, and none of them were the LOVE of his life. I think they all were loved deeply at various times. I think he continued to care for all of them after the relationships ended, in the same way that we tend to care for those that we were involved with, after the relationships ended. At first, there may be some anger, confusion, and hurt feelings, but as time goes on, those feelings eventually mellow out and we tend to remember the better times more than we do the bad. We don't spend our lives (or at least I hope no one does, because that would be a very painful existence) lamenting the loss of the one that got away and pining after them for the rest of our lives. We may think of them from time to time, but we let them go and we move on with our lives and we meet someone else who we give all of our love to. The whole idea that Prince spent his time pining after this woman or that, that he never moved on from this woman or that one, I don't know how anyone could wish that kind of torment and pain on Prince. And if he were to have done that, that's not love, that's obsession and that is not healthy (nor romantic).

It's like the whole Mani episode, a lot of people blame Mani for the split from Mayte because she moved in on a married man. It takes two to tangle. If Prince were not open to cheating on Mayte, then Mani wouldn't have gotten close to him. Period. He was not innocent in that scenario. And Vanity/Denise was heavy into drugs, and if you've ever been around anyone that uses drugs like that, they have very unhealthy relationships. And Mayte was young when they met and was not fully developed emotionally, nor mentally, and as we all do, we change as we grow up and discover who we want to be as an adult. Those relationships from youth tend to be very emotional, needy, dependent, until we gain the maturity of handling a real relationship and it becomes more refined. None of the relationships Prince had were perfect. Each of them had their issues and Prince wasn't innocent. But people want to romanticize the women that Prince dated, married, had sex with. Prince was someone, when he moved on, he moved on. Too bad his fans couldn't.

Good post, Benni. Prince was also not a fool. He was old school and a businessman and far from naive. He did love women, but I think when it came right down to it he did the mature thing. He did meet with Mayte and sat down and talked at one point she says. We don’t know what was said but it’s possible he was trying to make amends. With Mani, I have heard she REALLY took him to the bank and not everything has been disclosed and she took him for millions and she and Eric both stalked Prince for years for money, and Prince basically paid them off to get them out of his atmosphere, and he let her file for divorce so he could remain in good standing with the JW elders. But the marriage was basically over in 2004 and once he knew what she was like he made things so hard for her she would have to file, like locking her out of the house then bulldozing it, and taking her immigration papers and locking them in the vault st PO and leaving her basically nowhere to go. Maybe that’s why she had the apt rented in Minnie. Yes this is just hearsay but ive heard it from a few sources who were very close to P or someone he was very close to. I think Manuela is SCARILY cunning. I think he moved on from both wives but not the losses from his first marriage as easily. We carry those things with us. That’s why Prince stayed in the moment. [Edited 5/11/18 2:09am]

No, Prince wasn't a fool. And I agree. The loss of his son is something that would always stay with Prince. Miscarriages, while traumatic, tend to be something we minimize over time. I've had 4 miscarriages, and those losses hurt at the time, but I never had the opportunity to emotionally attach to the pregnancy as they were early in the pregnancy. I had that moment of love for the life I was carrying, and then it was gone. For women, we tend to get more emotionally attached when we learn we are pregnant because we feel the effects (morning sickness, hormones), but for men, it's harder to get attached earlier in the pregnancy until they start to see the woman's belly changing shape, feeling the baby move, etc. For them, it's an idea at the beginning, one that they love and get excited about, but that emotional attachment isn't quite there yet.

As for the rumors about Mani, how do those rumors impact our life? How do they change our life? I have no love for, nor dislike for her, because ultimately, she had no impact on my life. I cared about and loved Prince, as an artist, as someone who had an impact on my life. He brought people into my life, new experiences into my life, and his music helped to shape some of my ideas and beliefs. But ultimately, what Mani did or didn't do, has nothing to do with me or the relationship I had with Prince as a fan. Neither did Vanity, nor Mayte, nor Susannah, nor Andy, nor Jill, nor Judith, nor ... and the list goes on. And keep in mind, that people's opinions about what transpired between two individuals are based upon their own perceptions of what occurred. Those perceptions are based upon their relationships with the people involved. If they were close to Prince, and didn't like Mani or were jealous of Mani, then their perception of what occured between Prince and Mani would be based upon that, and the stories they tell would be painted by their love for Prince and dislike of Mani. The only two people that truly know what transpired, fully, are Prince and Mani. And ultimately, their relationship has no impact on me, my life, or my experience of Prince or life experiences, period. Since it has no impact on me, doesn't change my life in any way, why give it energy?

None of them, not Denise, not Mayte, not Mani, not Sheila, not Jill, not Andy, not ... are innocent in their relationships with Prince. Each of them did things that caused those relationships to end, or his feelings to change. But, Prince isn't innocent either. He played many of them, dating them at the same time, leading them on, and he also did things that caused those relationships to end. We all bring our best and our worst to our relationships. Relationships are two way streets, and both people are either committed to that relationship, or that relationship will falter and eventually fail.

Rumors and innuendos are just that. But do they contribute to your life in any way? And if they don't, why give them that kind of energy?

anangellooksdown said:

Every lie in our universe affects us. Every person who portrays a picture of themselves as being a social advocate while really playing every angle possible to further self makes our society sicker. I tend to be a realist. Denial does not work for me. This is not people’s perspectives born of jealousy; this is what Prince apparently told a person he was very close to. I don’t know exactly where the other person I heard it from got their information except it matches, and that person was close to someone P was close to. I wasn’t there so I can’t verify these things, but it sure does fit with every single thing we know. [Edited 5/11/18 2:40am]

Have you considered that the things that affect the universe, affect it because we give it energy? And I'm talking about such things as rumors about individuals, situations we are told about. For instance, no one would know (and therefore would not be affected by) the rumors that you've shared, if they were not made aware of that situation. It's when we eat from the Tree of Knowledge (shared information) that it brought about mankind's downfall. If we give wings to rumors and heresay, we are spreading the negative energy of that knowledge (information), and thereby changing the vibration of all those that hear that knowledge.

For instance, before you were "told" these things, before you learned of these things, was this something affecting your life? Was it affecting the world around you? If it was, how so? Or, did you change upon hearing these things? Did your worldview change once you were told these things? Did it have an impact upon you after you learned it?

And for me, it's not denial. It's about choosing what I give my energy to, and what energy I allow into my life. I can allow negative energy of rumors and innuendo and heresay into my life and let it change my vibrational flow, or I can go higher and not surround myself with that type of energy.

benni said:

I think it´s perfectly normal that there are dozens of Andy Allo, Mayte, Vanity, Mani, Jill Jones and countless other threads dedicated to those women because they all played an important part in Prince´s life and it´s understandable that there will always be fans who prefer person A over person B or C.

This is a Prince fan message board after all and where else if not here are you going to find threads dedicated to those women?

Doesn´t bother me at all as long as those threads are here in the associated artists forum and not in the Prince:Music and More forum. Nobody is forcing me to read them all.

I´d be more worried about unhappy orgers leaving the org after years and years on the org instead of worrying about the umpteenth Andy Allo, Mayte or Vanity thread.

It´s mostly grown folks in this forum so I don´t really understand why there needs to be so much censorship and banning people left and right.

Asenath said:

So bascially because people don't like the topic, the "powers that be" are now going to dictate what can and can't be discussed on the site? Although throughout various times in his career, Prince presented the persona of a sex symbol, and had women on display to promote this aspect of his persona; it's not to be discussed; and only the music is worthy of a thread? So it's better to censor thoughts and ideas that you may disagree with, then for people to just skip the threads which they find uninteresting/unworthy/stupid?

I actually think it's because there are like 7 threads on AA, where it could be combined in 1. I don't think we need 7 different threads about a person. There are also numerous threads on Mayte and Natalya, when there only need to be 1.

anangellooksdown said:

Exactly. *Crickets* See, this “new age” stuff feels good for a few minutes, but it doesn’t last unless we know ourselves first (have insight). Don’t mess with the big guns.

LOL - Sorry. I had went back to bed.

I'm not trying to control you, angel. I'm just stating my opinion. You are free to do what you want to do, which you always will be free to do it.

You replied to me, I replied to you, you replied, I replied. You said that every lie in the world affects the universe. I said, the way it effects the universe is through us and our vibrations and whether we share it or not. You see? Dialogue.

KoolEaze said:

I think it´s perfectly normal that there are dozens of Andy Allo, Mayte, Vanity, Mani, Jill Jones and countless other threads dedicated to those women because they all played an important part in Prince´s life and it´s understandable that there will always be fans who prefer person A over person B or C.

This is a Prince fan message board after all and where else if not here are you going to find threads dedicated to those women?

Doesn´t bother me at all as long as those threads are here in the associated artists forum and not in the Prince:Music and More forum. Nobody is forcing me to read them all.

I´d be more worried about unhappy orgers leaving the org after years and years on the org instead of worrying about the umpteenth Andy Allo, Mayte or Vanity thread.

It´s mostly grown folks in this forum so I don´t really understand why there needs to be so much censorship and banning people left and right.

Yeah, I don't get the censorship and banning thing either. The forum has slowed down even from 1 year ago.

benni said:

anangellooksdown said:

Exactly. *Crickets* See, this “new age” stuff feels good for a few minutes, but it doesn’t last unless we know ourselves first (have insight). Don’t mess with the big guns.

And, btw, I *DO* know myself, better than anyone. I have been self-reflective and self-study for much longer than most people think about doing it. And what big gun? I'm not messing with anything or anyone. I'm sharing my opinion.

Does not having someone agree with you, bother you that much? That you become defensive and feel the need to try to put them in their place? Why?

As I said previously, you are free to take into yourself what you wish to (whether it be rumor, heresay, lies) I just don't choose to give it energy. My energy is best spent on myself, my children, the path I am walking. I won't engage in bashing his exes. Women get that enough from society and these women get that enough from other Prince fans.

As Prince said:


In the name of democracy, supreme power is vested unto the people in this insane state instead of God
A future re-created, to be ruled by man, is one of isolation and despair
Returning the leadership back into God will allow mankind to achieve its original collective goal
Which is union with God
Ideas contrary to this goal should not be blamed or persecuted - just simply ignored
They originated when man first chose to ignore God's rule
Simply put - in the beginning, the Human was made perfect in God's image
They had no need for knowledge
They were also given freedom of choice
The Tree of Knowledge and the Tree of Life are reflections of this freedom
The human is now a reflection of their choice
They could have simply chose not to choose


So, you choose what you put your energy on, I choose what I put my energy on/not on. No control, no taking away your choice (I don't have that power). We continue to share ideas and thoughts from our own perspective. And everyone lives happily ever after.

KoolEaze said:

I think it´s perfectly normal that there are dozens of Andy Allo, Mayte, Vanity, Mani, Jill Jones and countless other threads dedicated to those women because they all played an important part in Prince´s life and it´s understandable that there will always be fans who prefer person A over person B or C.

This is a Prince fan message board after all and where else if not here are you going to find threads dedicated to those women?

Doesn´t bother me at all as long as those threads are here in the associated artists forum and not in the Prince:Music and More forum. Nobody is forcing me to read them all.

I´d be more worried about unhappy orgers leaving the org after years and years on the org instead of worrying about the umpteenth Andy Allo, Mayte or Vanity thread.

It´s mostly grown folks in this forum so I don´t really understand why there needs to be so much censorship and banning people left and right.

Exactly!!! Thank you!!!

Plus, I think the biggest problem here at Prince.org is a lack of mutual respect...and bullying. And, the moderators need to make that...not censorship...their focus. That is, things like name calling, personal attacks, profanity, stalking, and other forms of harassment should not be tolerated. Period.

Some Orgers think that it's their way or the highway. These people are unable to accept that everyone has their own mind and don't seem to understand the concept of agreeing to disagree; however, they should not be allowed to repeatedly derail/disrupt threads about subjects they find unappealing or opposite their way of thinking. Ultimately, I think if civility becomes commonplace here, Prince.org will be a much better place, worthy of being associated with the name Prince Rogers Nelson.

Asenath said:

anangellooksdown said:

benni said:

LOL - Sorry. I had went back to bed.

I'm not trying to control you, angel. I'm just stating my opinion. You are free to do what you want to do, which you always will be free to do it.

You replied to me, I replied to you, you replied, I replied. You said that every lie in the world affects the universe. I said, the way it effects the universe is through us and our vibrations and whether we share it or not. You see? Dialogue.

No, I stated something that is not really new or different on the Org, and you preached a long commentary to me, lol, about how I should think, feel and speak. That felt like control to me. NOW we are having a dialogue.

I asked if you had considered it....you know a question. I didn't preach at you. I never once told you how you should think, feel, or speak. I asked you questions, how did not knowing this have an impact on your life prior to you finding out? Did it have an impact on your life after you found it? I was asking those questions to show that it is the energy we give it that has an effect and if we spread it, that effect grows. But I never once said, you should think this way, you should feel this way, or you should speak this way. In fact, I said FOR ME, I choose to not give my energy to that. You will do what you want to do. And that is perfectly fine.

benni said:

rogifan said:

Asenath said:

So bascially because people don't like the topic, the "powers that be" are now going to dictate what can and can't be discussed on the site? Although throughout various times in his career, Prince presented the persona of a sex symbol, and had women on display to promote this aspect of his persona; it's not to be discussed; and only the music is worthy of a thread? So it's better to censor thoughts and ideas that you may disagree with, then for people to just skip the threads which they find uninteresting/unworthy/stupid?

It’s not about censoring anything. It’s about not having umpteen different threads about the same person. In the Music & More section threads get locked up and re-directed to existing threads all the time. Why should it be different here?

Personally, I think all the thread locking and redirecting on this site is counterproductive. I've never seen anything like it.

Asenath said:

So bascially because people don't like the topic, the "powers that be" are now going to dictate what can and can't be discussed on the site? Although throughout various times in his career, Prince presented the persona of a sex symbol, and had women on display to promote this aspect of his persona; it's not to be discussed; and only the music is worthy of a thread? So it's better to censor thoughts and ideas that you may disagree with, then for people to just skip the threads which they find uninteresting/unworthy/stupid?

THIS.

rogifan said:

Asenath said:

So bascially because people don't like the topic, the "powers that be" are now going to dictate what can and can't be discussed on the site? Although throughout various times in his career, Prince presented the persona of a sex symbol, and had women on display to promote this aspect of his persona; it's not to be discussed; and only the music is worthy of a thread? So it's better to censor thoughts and ideas that you may disagree with, then for people to just skip the threads which they find uninteresting/unworthy/stupid?

It’s not about censoring anything. It’s about not having umpteen different threads about the same person. In the Music & More section threads get locked up and re-directed to existing threads all the time. Why should it be different here?

I know I have posted things in PM&M and have had them locked and redirected to the appropriate thread. But I do think they need two separate boards from bandmembers, associates, collaborators vs ex-girlfriends. The ex-girlfriends get a lot of attention and people have a lot of opinions about them. If they have their own board, then this one can strictly focus on the music/interviews/concerts by associates.

rogifan said:

PennyPurple said:

Asenath said:

So bascially because people don't like the topic, the "powers that be" are now going to dictate what can and can't be discussed on the site? Although throughout various times in his career, Prince presented the persona of a sex symbol, and had women on display to promote this aspect of his persona; it's not to be discussed; and only the music is worthy of a thread? So it's better to censor thoughts and ideas that you may disagree with, then for people to just skip the threads which they find uninteresting/unworthy/stupid?

I actually think it's because there are like 7 threads on AA, where it could be combined in 1. I don't think we need 7 different threads about a person. There are also numerous threads on Mayte and Natalya, when there only need to be 1.

Just to be clear, there are presently multiple AA threads that were started by FIVE different Orgers.

FlyOnTheWall said:

anangellooksdown said:

FlyOnTheWall said:

Just to be clear, there are presently multiple AA threads that were started by FIVE different Orgers.

Right. That’s dominating the forum. No matter who begins them, certain people parlay off them and keep them at the top of the forum 24/7.

Why does it matter what is at the top of the forum? That is the mindset that is fueling the present toxicity here on Prince.org.

FlyOnTheWall said:

PennyPurple said:

I actually think it's because there are like 7 threads on AA, where it could be combined in 1. I don't think we need 7 different threads about a person. There are also numerous threads on Mayte and Natalya, when there only need to be 1.

Just to be clear, there are presently multiple AA threads that were started by FIVE different Orgers.

I believe that OF4S proposed the idea of an update thread in one of Latin's threads about Andy just to keep it neat and all in one place.I think it makes sense to have one thread for each associate or artist or at least an update thread for them to combine news on projects,new photos and interviews etc. I don't see anything wrong with dedicating a thread to a certain project,song or album as some have been doing.

FlyOnTheWall said:

But by that token: What does it matter if the conversations around certain individual associates are consolidated into one thread per associate? Wouldn't that make it easier for the people who are interested in discussing that person to find each other/follow the conversation, and easier for people who aren't interested to skip past it (similar to the one Death Talk sticky on the PM&M page)?

FlyOnTheWall said:

anangellooksdown said:

FlyOnTheWall said: Right. That’s dominating the forum. No matter who begins them, certain people parlay off them and keep them at the top of the forum 24/7.

Why does it matter what is at the top of the forum? That is the mindset that is fueling the present toxicity here on Prince.org.

[Edited 5/11/18 7:31am]

disch said:

But by that token: What does it matter if the conversations around certain individual associates are consolidated into one thread per associate? Wouldn't that make it easier for the people who are interested in discussing that person to find each other/follow the conversation, and easier for people who aren't interested to skip past it (similar to the one Death Talk sticky on the PM&M page)?

FlyOnTheWall said:

Why does it matter what is at the top of the forum? That is the mindset that is fueling the present toxicity here on Prince.org.

[Edited 5/11/18 7:31am]

In fact, it's just the opposite. Trying to navigate those LONG sticky threads, often with dozens of pages, is very time-consuming. For that very reason, I seldom frequent the "Death" and "Estate" stickies. It is much easier, IMHO, to follow more narrowly focused threads.

But the multple girlfriend threads AREN'T "narrowly focused." Take a look at the last posts in those threads and see if they have anything to do with the stated thread title.

-

If they each had a specific, truly distinct topic designated in the subject (a new music release, say, or an evaluation of an older release) and that's what people actually discussed that would be one thing, I think. And if they then allowed the conversation about that topic to run its natural course and the thread died, as all threads do, then, in my opinion, that would be fine.

-

But threads that start or end pup about what Prince "truly felt" about this woman vs that woman, who was his "soul mate" or "last confirmed girlfriend" or whatever -- i.e., that focus on the personal/romantic relationship between Prince and whatever person? Yeah, those discussions should be consolidated and set in a place where people can find (or avoid) them very easily.

FlyOnTheWall said:

disch said:

But by that token: What does it matter if the conversations around certain individual associates are consolidated into one thread per associate? Wouldn't that make it easier for the people who are interested in discussing that person to find each other/follow the conversation, and easier for people who aren't interested to skip past it (similar to the one Death Talk sticky on the PM&M page)?

[Edited 5/11/18 7:31am]

In fact, it's just the opposite. Trying to navigate those LONG sticky threads, often with dozens of pages, is very time-consuming. For that very reason, I seldom frequent the "Death" and "Estate" stickies. It is much easier, IMHO, to follow more narrowly focused threads.

[Edited 5/11/18 7:54am]