violetcrush said:

PeteSilas said:

i used to think lisa couldn't play all that well and that's why she didn't solo but i've heard some of the shows from around the time before they broke up, sounds pretty good to me on her solos, unless that's matt.

No, those solos are Lisa. Prince loved how she played. During his second to last P&M show in Atlanta he talks to the crowd about how they met, and how she played. He started to play and said, "I'm trying to play like her". They re-released the W&L Eroica album recently, and they included two piano solos that she wrote called MN 1 and MN 2. She had written those before the Revolution disbanded. Also, she had a great solo on Little Red Corvette during the PR tour.

Lisa is one of the soloists on DMSR during the 1999/Purple Rain tour

* more specifically listen to DMSR on the 1983 Dance Benefit show, 1 synth solo is Matt the other is Lisa -I believe the one where Prince interprets it to be a telephone

PeteSilas said:

if what we've heard about wendy and lisa (I was never 100 percent convinced) they contributed way more on the creative side of things with Prince than anyone did. I never did believe the crap that they showed the idiotsavant the wonders of the beatles and all that, never believed that. Hell, I only found out that this inner city black kid was a huge fleetwood mac fan in from early on, why would it be so hard to believe he wasn't familiar with the beatles and he was telling dez when they worked together that he wanted to be "a black rolling stones" bandwise, he knew his history.

Well they never said they showed Prince the wonders of the Beatles, Bobby Z Dez & Matt opened that spark.

.

And the image people paint of an 'inner city black kid' is wrong too. Like Alan Leeds said, the poor parts of Minneapolis compared to the Bronx were a like the suburbs. Hell take a look at Andre Cymones home.

.

Because Fleetwood Mac is not the Beatles. Why would he have to have heard and studied every artist out there. Most people have not. Just because someone is famous doesn't mean people are listening to everything. Especially if they were not alive when specific albums hit. Think about all the Prince fans who are younger who are just exploring the 80s music.

.

And when did Prince say he wanted to be a 'black rolling stones' when he wanted to be like Sly & the Family Stone a multi ethnic/gender band?

.

That sounds like that so wrong comment Casey Terry made back in the mid 2000s @ First Avenue when all the band joined up and said 'Mazarati was the black band Prince always wanted to be' Prince never wanted that. And how is a band black with 2 white members...

OldFriends4Sale said:

Good info. Yes, Bobby was the first with Prince - as he says, "when Prince was very unfamous". Wendy told Questlove that she was always the "DJ" for Prince - bringing him new music or music that he hadn't heard. Lisa did the same with classical music, and Eric with Jazz. Wendy said she brought Chuck D's record to a PP party ('88 maybe?) and Prince heard it for the first time. She said he knew at that point things were shifting with rap and hip hop.

i remember this but only prince could say whether it was true or not. as for me, i always thought the riff from I wanna be your lover was the same one in "getting better". what i'm saying is that prince most likely heard the beatles the same way i did, i didn't even grow up around white people and by the time i started listening to the beatles, it wasn't like i'd never heard the big hits throughout the sixties, many of them were somehow familiar and also, prince has been said, many times to have grown up off of regular top 40 radio, they didn't even have a around the clock black station for black people to listen too. that's not much better than seattle was when i was young, we only had 1 way up on the high end of am radio which all the black folk listened to. no white music on those stations unless it was novelty music like kc and the sunshine band.

as far as "black rolling stones' that is from dez during the time he worked with Prince, as quoted in dave hill's poplife and yes, i know "inner city black kid" does not mean bronx, has nothing to do with my point, my point was, an inner city kid like him (and me) would hear the beatles on tv, passing cars, in stores, from houses, just like i did even though no one around me was directly playing beatles. I'm not saying the band didn't get him into the beatles, i'm just not so sure they brought him those albums like they say and that he hadn't heard them before. Prince denied the beatles influence on atwiad but he often did those kinds of things (like denying the hendrix influence) so we don't know from the horses mouth. what bothers me is that the picture of a black genius, "idiot savant" in a spin articles' words needed white people to bring him a higher culture where his prolific though idiot savant gifts could make miracles, i don't like that. and i just don't know if it's even true, i wasn't there. maybe it is fully true.

OldFriends4Sale said:

PeteSilas said:

if what we've heard about wendy and lisa (I was never 100 percent convinced) they contributed way more on the creative side of things with Prince than anyone did. I never did believe the crap that they showed the idiotsavant the wonders of the beatles and all that, never believed that. Hell, I only found out that this inner city black kid was a huge fleetwood mac fan in from early on, why would it be so hard to believe he wasn't familiar with the beatles and he was telling dez when they worked together that he wanted to be "a black rolling stones" bandwise, he knew his history.

Well they never said they showed Prince the wonders of the Beatles, Bobby Z Dez & Matt opened that spark.

.

And the image people paint of an 'inner city black kid' is wrong too. Like Alan Leeds said, the poor parts of Minneapolis compared to the Bronx were a like the suburbs. Hell take a look at Andre Cymones home.

.

Because Fleetwood Mac is not the Beatles. Why would he have to have heard and studied every artist out there. Most people have not. Just because someone is famous doesn't mean people are listening to everything. Especially if they were not alive when specific albums hit. Think about all the Prince fans who are younger who are just exploring the 80s music.

.

And when did Prince say he wanted to be a 'black rolling stones' when he wanted to be like Sly & the Family Stone a multi ethnic/gender band?

.

That sounds like that so wrong comment Casey Terry made back in the mid 2000s @ First Avenue when all the band joined up and said 'Mazarati was the black band Prince always wanted to be' Prince never wanted that. And how is a band black with 2 white members...

[Edited 4/27/18 22:58pm]

PeteSilas said:

i remember this but only prince could say whether it was true or not. as for me, i always thought the riff from I wanna be your lover was the same one in "getting better". what i'm saying is that prince most likely heard the beatles the same way i did, i didn't even grow up around white people and by the time i started listening to the beatles, it wasn't like i'd never heard the big hits throughout the sixties, many of them were somehow familiar and also, prince has been said, many times to have grown up off of regular top 40 radio, they didn't even have a around the clock black station for black people to listen too. that's not much better than seattle was when i was young, we only had 1 way up on the high end of am radio which all the black folk listened to. no white music on those stations unless it was novelty music like kc and the sunshine band.

as far as "black rolling stones' that is from dez during the time he worked with Prince, as quoted in dave hill's poplife and yes, i know "inner city black kid" does not mean bronx, has nothing to do with my point, my point was, an inner city kid like him (and me) would hear the beatles on tv, passing cars, in stores, from houses, just like i did even though no one around me was directly playing beatles. I'm not saying the band didn't get him into the beatles, i'm just not so sure they brought him those albums like they say and that he hadn't heard them before. Prince denied the beatles influence on atwiad but he often did those kinds of things (like denying the hendrix influence) so we don't know from the horses mouth. what bothers me is that the picture of a black genius, "idiot savant" in a spin articles' words needed white people to bring him a higher culture where his prolific though idiot savant gifts could make miracles, i don't like that. and i just don't know if it's even true, i wasn't there. maybe it is fully true.

OldFriends4Sale said:

Well they never said they showed Prince the wonders of the Beatles, Bobby Z Dez & Matt opened that spark.

.

And the image people paint of an 'inner city black kid' is wrong too. Like Alan Leeds said, the poor parts of Minneapolis compared to the Bronx were a like the suburbs. Hell take a look at Andre Cymones home.

.

Because Fleetwood Mac is not the Beatles. Why would he have to have heard and studied every artist out there. Most people have not. Just because someone is famous doesn't mean people are listening to everything. Especially if they were not alive when specific albums hit. Think about all the Prince fans who are younger who are just exploring the 80s music.

.

And when did Prince say he wanted to be a 'black rolling stones' when he wanted to be like Sly & the Family Stone a multi ethnic/gender band?

.

That sounds like that so wrong comment Casey Terry made back in the mid 2000s @ First Avenue when all the band joined up and said 'Mazarati was the black band Prince always wanted to be' Prince never wanted that. And how is a band black with 2 white members...

[Edited 4/27/18 22:58pm]

PeteSilas - true about the MN "hood" vs other cities, but Andre has stated in interviews that his Mom went to school, got a better job, and then she moved them "out of the ghetto" (his words). But, you're right - what was considered the "ghetto" in MN I'm sure was far better than Harlem at that time. Although, there was still segregation, as Prince has talked and written songs about being "bussed" to a white school when he was a young kid. I think I remember reading that there was only one station that played any black or funk music and it was very small and didn't have a big range, or only broadcasted during certain hours. I totally agree with what you are saying regarding Prince, as a kid, being able to find the music even if he wasn't hearing it everyday. But I think him hearing it or being aware that it exists does not mean he focused on it at that time. I think it is very possible that the members of the band tuned him in to the later period of the Beatles - of course he knew who they were, and most likely knew some of their music, but he very well may not have been too familiar with the Sgt Pepper record, or at least other songs on the album beside the title song. Susannah also talked about how she was playing a Led Zeppelin record back when they were dating, and Prince walked in and said, "what is this? It's awful". At some point, he gave them more listening time, and ended up covering "Whole Lotta Love" in later shows. I was in highschool before I really started listening to all of the Beatles and Beach Boys music - of course I recognized who they were and some of their very well known songs, but I wasn't listening to all of their music. Same with The Talking Heads - knew about them, but didn't start really getting familiar until the late 80's. It's true though - Prince, from the beginning wanted to cross over, and did not want to be strictly R&B, so he was open to everything. Jill Jones stated they would listen to Roxy Music, Gary Newman, etc back when she first joined. Dez loved the Cars, so he said he brought that in to the mix. I think everyone in the band brought things to the musical table, and he was open to all of it. No doubt he brought many things to them as well.

i agree with most of the post but Prince namechecks led zeppelin in the 85 interview as if he'd been listening to their music for a while, that was not too long after sussanah was in the picture. so i don't know. he was certainly more respectful to zep than the beatles in that interview. "the influence wasn't the beatles although they were great for what they did, i don't see how that would work today" I do believe those (paraphrased) words came from the rs 85 interview and were pure prince just as he dismissed the jimi influence in those years.

violetcrush said:

PeteSilas said:

i remember this but only prince could say whether it was true or not. as for me, i always thought the riff from I wanna be your lover was the same one in "getting better". what i'm saying is that prince most likely heard the beatles the same way i did, i didn't even grow up around white people and by the time i started listening to the beatles, it wasn't like i'd never heard the big hits throughout the sixties, many of them were somehow familiar and also, prince has been said, many times to have grown up off of regular top 40 radio, they didn't even have a around the clock black station for black people to listen too. that's not much better than seattle was when i was young, we only had 1 way up on the high end of am radio which all the black folk listened to. no white music on those stations unless it was novelty music like kc and the sunshine band.

as far as "black rolling stones' that is from dez during the time he worked with Prince, as quoted in dave hill's poplife and yes, i know "inner city black kid" does not mean bronx, has nothing to do with my point, my point was, an inner city kid like him (and me) would hear the beatles on tv, passing cars, in stores, from houses, just like i did even though no one around me was directly playing beatles. I'm not saying the band didn't get him into the beatles, i'm just not so sure they brought him those albums like they say and that he hadn't heard them before. Prince denied the beatles influence on atwiad but he often did those kinds of things (like denying the hendrix influence) so we don't know from the horses mouth. what bothers me is that the picture of a black genius, "idiot savant" in a spin articles' words needed white people to bring him a higher culture where his prolific though idiot savant gifts could make miracles, i don't like that. and i just don't know if it's even true, i wasn't there. maybe it is fully true.

[Edited 4/27/18 22:58pm]

PeteSilas - true about the MN "hood" vs other cities, but Andre has stated in interviews that his Mom went to school, got a better job, and then she moved them "out of the ghetto" (his words). But, you're right - what was considered the "ghetto" in MN I'm sure was far better than Harlem at that time. Although, there was still segregation, as Prince has talked and written songs about being "bussed" to a white school when he was a young kid. I think I remember reading that there was only one station that played any black or funk music and it was very small and didn't have a big range, or only broadcasted during certain hours. I totally agree with what you are saying regarding Prince, as a kid, being able to find the music even if he wasn't hearing it everyday. But I think him hearing it or being aware that it exists does not mean he focused on it at that time. I think it is very possible that the members of the band tuned him in to the later period of the Beatles - of course he knew who they were, and most likely knew some of their music, but he very well may not have been too familiar with the Sgt Pepper record, or at least other songs on the album beside the title song. Susannah also talked about how she was playing a Led Zeppelin record back when they were dating, and Prince walked in and said, "what is this? It's awful". At some point, he gave them more listening time, and ended up covering "Whole Lotta Love" in later shows. I was in highschool before I really started listening to all of the Beatles and Beach Boys music - of course I recognized who they were and some of their very well known songs, but I wasn't listening to all of their music. Same with The Talking Heads - knew about them, but didn't start really getting familiar until the late 80's. It's true though - Prince, from the beginning wanted to cross over, and did not want to be strictly R&B, so he was open to everything. Jill Jones stated they would listen to Roxy Music, Gary Newman, etc back when she first joined. Dez loved the Cars, so he said he brought that in to the mix. I think everyone in the band brought things to the musical table, and he was open to all of it. No doubt he brought many things to them as well.

PeteSilas said:

i agree with most of the post but Prince namechecks led zeppelin in the 85 interview as if he'd been listening to their music for a while, that was not too long after sussanah was in the picture. so i don't know. he was certainly more respectful to zep than the beatles in that interview. "the influence wasn't the beatles although they were great for what they did, i don't see how that would work today" I do believe those (paraphrased) words came from the rs 85 interview and were pure prince just as he dismissed the jimi influence in those years.

violetcrush said:

PeteSilas - true about the MN "hood" vs other cities, but Andre has stated in interviews that his Mom went to school, got a better job, and then she moved them "out of the ghetto" (his words). But, you're right - what was considered the "ghetto" in MN I'm sure was far better than Harlem at that time. Although, there was still segregation, as Prince has talked and written songs about being "bussed" to a white school when he was a young kid. I think I remember reading that there was only one station that played any black or funk music and it was very small and didn't have a big range, or only broadcasted during certain hours. I totally agree with what you are saying regarding Prince, as a kid, being able to find the music even if he wasn't hearing it everyday. But I think him hearing it or being aware that it exists does not mean he focused on it at that time. I think it is very possible that the members of the band tuned him in to the later period of the Beatles - of course he knew who they were, and most likely knew some of their music, but he very well may not have been too familiar with the Sgt Pepper record, or at least other songs on the album beside the title song. Susannah also talked about how she was playing a Led Zeppelin record back when they were dating, and Prince walked in and said, "what is this? It's awful". At some point, he gave them more listening time, and ended up covering "Whole Lotta Love" in later shows. I was in highschool before I really started listening to all of the Beatles and Beach Boys music - of course I recognized who they were and some of their very well known songs, but I wasn't listening to all of their music. Same with The Talking Heads - knew about them, but didn't start really getting familiar until the late 80's. It's true though - Prince, from the beginning wanted to cross over, and did not want to be strictly R&B, so he was open to everything. Jill Jones stated they would listen to Roxy Music, Gary Newman, etc back when she first joined. Dez loved the Cars, so he said he brought that in to the mix. I think everyone in the band brought things to the musical table, and he was open to all of it. No doubt he brought many things to them as well.

Susannah met and began spending lots of time with Prince in 1983 after Wendy joined the band, so they had known each other and spent lots of time together by the time RS did the 1985 article. She's even mentioned in the article. They were doing The Family record at that time and planning UTCM. It's possible by the time he was interviewed he had changed his mind about LZ. Also, in that article the reference to the Beatles was in relation to ATWIAD. Journalists were assuming that the Beatles influenced that record, and that was not the case - it was the song ATWIAD that was the influence. Prince didn't want to be compared to any other musician past or present, but it's undeniable that he was influenced by Hendrix, Stevie, Santana, James Brown, and even Joni with his ballads. He took some of all of them, morphed it a bit, and made it his own. His genius was that, unlike most, he could do it all and do it better than most. He was very competitive, as it's been widely known. Steve Parke stated when Prince heard him listening to one of the U2 CD's at PP he said, "you know what I'd do if I sang like that?, I'd become a Janitor" (or something like that). Of course, he knew Bono had a good voice, but he was just being competitive. Bono won the Grammy in 1987 for Joshua Tree instead of SOTT. Steve Parke also introduced Prince to No Doubt - he has a story about that too. Prince was amazing - best guitarist, beautiful singer, great dancer, amazing pianist, on and on...but there were other musicians and collaborators who brought things to him throughout the years, and that is great, because it just further enhanced his talent.

[Edited 4/28/18 12:54pm]

Again, why would he/they lie. I believe this was even mention before Prince passed away.
And obviously Prince was not a 'fan' of the Beatles, so he probably never 'listened' to thm even if he heard songs.

.

The 'inner city' things is more of a recent media term I dispise. It is another 'racial confining term' that cannot intelligently group folk together as some shared experience. Most people who live in the inner city have $$ anyway. But Prince's life/family life prior to fame was probably nothing like yours. Through it all, the man managed to be a A student, sharp, focused, clean and neat.

Prince said he hung out with different crowds, black and white. But again, why would they lie? Hearling and Listening are two different experiences. As I said before I know people who heard Prince, but didn't 'listen/get it' till years later. Andre Cymone is a good example. After he left the band he said he never listened to another Prince 'album' again. He said he heard songs of course on the radio/tv or when Prince would send him something. But it is clear, he did not listen and get it until after Prince died.

.

Also you are interpeting things via your bias of 'white/Jewish' people. Bobby Z also mentioned that it was he, Matt & Dez(who is African-american) who got Prince to hear that Beatles album. And remember that you might have a problem with the alleged race of Bobby Z & Fink both Jewish, but Prince didn't and he was lifelong friends with both of them.

PeteSilas said:

i remember this but only prince could say whether it was true or not. as for me, i always thought the riff from I wanna be your lover was the same one in "getting better". what i'm saying is that prince most likely heard the beatles the same way i did, i didn't even grow up around white people and by the time i started listening to the beatles, it wasn't like i'd never heard the big hits throughout the sixties, many of them were somehow familiar and also, prince has been said, many times to have grown up off of regular top 40 radio, they didn't even have a around the clock black station for black people to listen too. that's not much better than seattle was when i was young, we only had 1 way up on the high end of am radio which all the black folk listened to. no white music on those stations unless it was novelty music like kc and the sunshine band.

as far as "black rolling stones' that is from dez during the time he worked with Prince, as quoted in dave hill's poplife and yes, i know "inner city black kid" does not mean bronx, has nothing to do with my point, my point was, an inner city kid like him (and me) would hear the beatles on tv, passing cars, in stores, from houses, just like i did even though no one around me was directly playing beatles. I'm not saying the band didn't get him into the beatles, i'm just not so sure they brought him those albums like they say and that he hadn't heard them before. Prince denied the beatles influence on atwiad but he often did those kinds of things (like denying the hendrix influence) so we don't know from the horses mouth. what bothers me is that the picture of a black genius, "idiot savant" in a spin articles' words needed white people to bring him a higher culture where his prolific though idiot savant gifts could make miracles, i don't like that. and i just don't know if it's even true, i wasn't there. maybe it is fully true.

OldFriends4Sale said:

Well they never said they showed Prince the wonders of the Beatles, Bobby Z Dez & Matt opened that spark.

.

And the image people paint of an 'inner city black kid' is wrong too. Like Alan Leeds said, the poor parts of Minneapolis compared to the Bronx were a like the suburbs. Hell take a look at Andre Cymones home.

.

Because Fleetwood Mac is not the Beatles. Why would he have to have heard and studied every artist out there. Most people have not. Just because someone is famous doesn't mean people are listening to everything. Especially if they were not alive when specific albums hit. Think about all the Prince fans who are younger who are just exploring the 80s music.

.

And when did Prince say he wanted to be a 'black rolling stones' when he wanted to be like Sly & the Family Stone a multi ethnic/gender band?

.

That sounds like that so wrong comment Casey Terry made back in the mid 2000s @ First Avenue when all the band joined up and said 'Mazarati was the black band Prince always wanted to be' Prince never wanted that. And how is a band black with 2 white members...

[Edited 4/27/18 22:58pm]

inner city is far from a recent term, you ever hear marvin gaye's "inner city blues" at any rate, i already said that i only said those words, not in the way you are misinterpreting but in a way that means all kinds of people thrown together, there will be some cross cultural stuff happening even if by accident, i remember hearing ac/dc in my poor assed neighborhood, where those people were coming from and why they were driving in my neighborhood i don't even know but it happened. And I don't question that some people may have thought they showed prince some beatles, but he never said that did he? Also, prince did lie, all the time, he always claimed he didn't listen to other peoples music, especially in the eighties, yet, his sound had a lot of those eighties sounds in it, it was obvious he was paying attention to the black groups and the white groups and we know from susan rogers stories that he loved "karma chameleon". and we know that his minimizing Jimi's influence was a lie, his only truth in those statements was that santana was a greater influence, but him just saying the comparison's were "because we're both black" are bull. even his war with the internet, saying it was over, and then come to find out he scoured youtube for fresh talent, watched the org like a hawk. He wasn't alway forthright you know.

OldFriends4Sale said:

Again, why would he/they lie. I believe this was even mention before Prince passed away.
And obviously Prince was not a 'fan' of the Beatles, so he probably never 'listened' to thm even if he heard songs.

.

The 'inner city' things is more of a recent media term I dispise. It is another 'racial confining term' that cannot intelligently group folk together as some shared experience. Most people who live in the inner city have $$ anyway. But Prince's life/family life prior to fame was probably nothing like yours. Through it all, the man managed to be a A student, sharp, focused, clean and neat.

Prince said he hung out with different crowds, black and white. But again, why would they lie? Hearling and Listening are two different experiences. As I said before I know people who heard Prince, but didn't 'listen/get it' till years later. Andre Cymone is a good example. After he left the band he said he never listened to another Prince 'album' again. He said he heard songs of course on the radio/tv or when Prince would send him something. But it is clear, he did not listen and get it until after Prince died.

.

Also you are interpeting things via your bias of 'white/Jewish' people. Bobby Z also mentioned that it was he, Matt & Dez(who is African-american) who got Prince to hear that Beatles album. And remember that you might have a problem with the alleged race of Bobby Z & Fink both Jewish, but Prince didn't and he was lifelong friends with both of them.

PeteSilas said:

i remember this but only prince could say whether it was true or not. as for me, i always thought the riff from I wanna be your lover was the same one in "getting better". what i'm saying is that prince most likely heard the beatles the same way i did, i didn't even grow up around white people and by the time i started listening to the beatles, it wasn't like i'd never heard the big hits throughout the sixties, many of them were somehow familiar and also, prince has been said, many times to have grown up off of regular top 40 radio, they didn't even have a around the clock black station for black people to listen too. that's not much better than seattle was when i was young, we only had 1 way up on the high end of am radio which all the black folk listened to. no white music on those stations unless it was novelty music like kc and the sunshine band.

as far as "black rolling stones' that is from dez during the time he worked with Prince, as quoted in dave hill's poplife and yes, i know "inner city black kid" does not mean bronx, has nothing to do with my point, my point was, an inner city kid like him (and me) would hear the beatles on tv, passing cars, in stores, from houses, just like i did even though no one around me was directly playing beatles. I'm not saying the band didn't get him into the beatles, i'm just not so sure they brought him those albums like they say and that he hadn't heard them before. Prince denied the beatles influence on atwiad but he often did those kinds of things (like denying the hendrix influence) so we don't know from the horses mouth. what bothers me is that the picture of a black genius, "idiot savant" in a spin articles' words needed white people to bring him a higher culture where his prolific though idiot savant gifts could make miracles, i don't like that. and i just don't know if it's even true, i wasn't there. maybe it is fully true.

[Edited 4/27/18 22:58pm]

I really don't think Prince was a Beatles fan, certainly not early on. A few things in relation to that:

1) Getting Better vs. I Wanna be Your Lover: i really like this, it's a real interesting comparison. That slashing guitar line is very similar but it is the only thing that's similar between those two songs. Definitely worth thinking about. I see no other evidence of Beatles influence on his earlier music though.

2) He liked the Rolling Stones so he must have liked the Beatles. If anything that works the opposite way, it's very possible to only like one of them since they were often seen as competition with each other. This was even more the case back then.

3) Prince was an absolute genius who listened to all music and digested it all and that's how he is so good (or something like that). Nonsense. The Beatles weren't the only band he didn't know, we've had people telling us that he didn't even know that Funkadelic had those early guitar heavy records until they showed him, he only knew them from their mid 70's onwards stuff.

You don't have to know all music to be a genius. Hell, Prince spent so long writing music he probably listened to less than other people. He's on record saying that Hejira by Joni Mitchell is the last album he loved straight through which I think is noteworthy because that album also came out the year before he started doing music full-time himself, i'd say he was listening to new music less for enjoyment from then on and more from checking out the competition.

5) He didn't know all the Beatles albums so he must not have known any Beatles. Ridiculous and no-one ever said this. A certain amount of Beatles songs were inescapable. I think Matt's story of Good Morning, Good Morning is telling, Prince was surprised the Beatles were doing such out-there music because he only knew them from their big pop hits and slightly cheesy image.

Don't forget as well that there was a period in the 70's where the Beatles were out of print. Hard to believe now but it would have co-incided almost directly with Prince's teenage years. The Red and Blue albums would have been the only albums easy to get back then and they don't exactly delve deep into the weirder Beatles stuff.

6. Band members like to claim they introduced him to the Beatles to steal music listening valor or something. Get a grip.

[Edited 4/29/18 5:30am]

jaawwnn said:

I really don't think Prince was a Beatles fan, certainly not early on. A few things in relation to that:

1) Getting Better vs. I Wanna be Your Lover: i really like this, it's a real interesting comparison. That slashing guitar line is very similar but it is the only thing that's similar between those two songs. Definitely worth thinking about. I see no other evidence of Beatles influence on his earlier music though.

2) He liked the Rolling Stones so he must have liked the Beatles. If anything that works the opposite way, it's very possible to only like one of them since they were often seen as competition with each other. This was even more the case back then.

3) Prince was an absolute genius who listened to all music and digested it all and that's how he is so good (or something like that). Nonsense. The Beatles weren't the only band he didn't know, we've had people telling us that he didn't even know that Funkadelic had those early guitar heavy records until they showed him, he only knew them from their mid 70's onwards stuff.

You don't have to know all music to be a genius. Hell, Prince spent so long writing music he probably listened to less than other people. He's on record saying that Hejira by Joni Mitchell is the last album he loved straight through which I think is noteworthy because that album also came out the year before he started doing music full-time himself, i'd say he was listening to new music less for enjoyment from then on and more from checking out the competition.

5) He didn't know all the Beatles albums so he must not have known any Beatles. Ridiculous and no-one ever said this. A certain amount of Beatles songs were inescapable. I think Matt's story of Good Morning, Good Morning is telling, Prince was surprised the Beatles were doing such out-there music because he only knew them from their big pop hits and slightly cheesy image.

Don't forget as well that there was a period in the 70's where the Beatles were out of print. Hard to believe now but it would have co-incided almost directly with Prince's teenage years. The Red and Blue albums would have been the only albums easy to get back then and they don't exactly delve deep into the weirder Beatles stuff.

6. Band members like to claim they introduced him to the Beatles to steal music listening valor or something. Get a grip.

[Edited 4/29/18 5:30am]

All good points here, and I agree with your responses to others' prior comments. Recording sometimes 24 hrs or more at a time as Prince did, plus doing his live shows would not have left much time for leisurely listening to other music.

good points, no, no one hears everything, there are plenty of people in the rock and roll hall of fame who i am only vaguely familiar with and i'm almost 50 and a musician. so, i could believe it when jesse johnson said he brought marvin gaye to prince, it showed in his music with the god/love talk from around the period he claimed. and also, there is a difference between knowing who an artist was and hearing there tunes in passing and really getting into their stuff. my claim is that prince was familiar with the beatles music at least to the point all of us were even if it wasn't our generations music. now, that's not the same as digging into albums and hearing the songs that never made it to radio but it's not like he'd never heard their stuff either. Prince was the reason i got into the beatles because so much was made of the ATWIAD/SGT. Pepper's influence and i saw my hero being compared to the Beatles so, i went and listened to some Beatles, A lot of it i had heard before, as I stated, much of it I hadn't but I fucking loved it all and I learned how to be open to all music from Prince.

jaawwnn said:

I really don't think Prince was a Beatles fan, certainly not early on. A few things in relation to that:

1) Getting Better vs. I Wanna be Your Lover: i really like this, it's a real interesting comparison. That slashing guitar line is very similar but it is the only thing that's similar between those two songs. Definitely worth thinking about. I see no other evidence of Beatles influence on his earlier music though.

2) He liked the Rolling Stones so he must have liked the Beatles. If anything that works the opposite way, it's very possible to only like one of them since they were often seen as competition with each other. This was even more the case back then.

3) Prince was an absolute genius who listened to all music and digested it all and that's how he is so good (or something like that). Nonsense. The Beatles weren't the only band he didn't know, we've had people telling us that he didn't even know that Funkadelic had those early guitar heavy records until they showed him, he only knew them from their mid 70's onwards stuff.

You don't have to know all music to be a genius. Hell, Prince spent so long writing music he probably listened to less than other people. He's on record saying that Hejira by Joni Mitchell is the last album he loved straight through which I think is noteworthy because that album also came out the year before he started doing music full-time himself, i'd say he was listening to new music less for enjoyment from then on and more from checking out the competition.

5) He didn't know all the Beatles albums so he must not have known any Beatles. Ridiculous and no-one ever said this. A certain amount of Beatles songs were inescapable. I think Matt's story of Good Morning, Good Morning is telling, Prince was surprised the Beatles were doing such out-there music because he only knew them from their big pop hits and slightly cheesy image.

Don't forget as well that there was a period in the 70's where the Beatles were out of print. Hard to believe now but it would have co-incided almost directly with Prince's teenage years. The Red and Blue albums would have been the only albums easy to get back then and they don't exactly delve deep into the weirder Beatles stuff.

6. Band members like to claim they introduced him to the Beatles to steal music listening valor or something. Get a grip.

[Edited 4/29/18 5:30am]

PeteSilas said:

good points, no, no one hears everything, there are plenty of people in the rock and roll hall of fame who i am only vaguely familiar with and i'm almost 50 and a musician. so, i could believe it when jesse johnson said he brought marvin gaye to prince, it showed in his music with the god/love talk from around the period he claimed. and also, there is a difference between knowing who an artist was and hearing there tunes in passing and really getting into their stuff. my claim is that prince was familiar with the beatles music at least to the point all of us were even if it wasn't our generations music. now, that's not the same as digging into albums and hearing the songs that never made it to radio but it's not like he'd never heard their stuff either. Prince was the reason i got into the beatles because so much was made of the ATWIAD/SGT. Pepper's influence and i saw my hero being compared to the Beatles so, i went and listened to some Beatles, A lot of it i had heard before, as I stated, much of it I hadn't but I fucking loved it all and I learned how to be open to all music from Prince.

[Edited 4/29/18 5:30am]

Of course Rolling Stone were still a massive cultural influence in the 80s and they were all Beatles heads so the first thing they saw with ATWIAD was The Beatles, whether it was there or not. In fairness, it's fairly astonishing if ATWIAD was not influenced by Sgt. Pepper but it seems it might have been the case, or at least from Prince's perspective.

I 3rd it, Great points

I think one of things that made his 1978-1988 period Genius was his extemely standout purple music. And his lack of listening to other artists is why purple music was so uniquely Prince. And what they did listen to was not the current stuff, while in that 1981-1986 bubble of time.

jaawwnn said:

I really don't think Prince was a Beatles fan, certainly not early on. A few things in relation to that:

1) Getting Better vs. I Wanna be Your Lover: i really like this, it's a real interesting comparison. That slashing guitar line is very similar but it is the only thing that's similar between those two songs. Definitely worth thinking about. I see no other evidence of Beatles influence on his earlier music though.

2) He liked the Rolling Stones so he must have liked the Beatles. If anything that works the opposite way, it's very possible to only like one of them since they were often seen as competition with each other. This was even more the case back then.

3) Prince was an absolute genius who listened to all music and digested it all and that's how he is so good (or something like that). Nonsense. The Beatles weren't the only band he didn't know, we've had people telling us that he didn't even know that Funkadelic had those early guitar heavy records until they showed him, he only knew them from their mid 70's onwards stuff.

You don't have to know all music to be a genius. Hell, Prince spent so long writing music he probably listened to less than other people. He's on record saying that Hejira by Joni Mitchell is the last album he loved straight through which I think is noteworthy because that album also came out the year before he started doing music full-time himself, i'd say he was listening to new music less for enjoyment from then on and more from checking out the competition.

5) He didn't know all the Beatles albums so he must not have known any Beatles. Ridiculous and no-one ever said this. A certain amount of Beatles songs were inescapable. I think Matt's story of Good Morning, Good Morning is telling, Prince was surprised the Beatles were doing such out-there music because he only knew them from their big pop hits and slightly cheesy image.

Don't forget as well that there was a period in the 70's where the Beatles were out of print. Hard to believe now but it would have co-incided almost directly with Prince's teenage years. The Red and Blue albums would have been the only albums easy to get back then and they don't exactly delve deep into the weirder Beatles stuff.

6. Band members like to claim they introduced him to the Beatles to steal music listening valor or something. Get a grip.

[Edited 4/29/18 5:30am]

jaawwnn said:

PeteSilas said:

good points, no, no one hears everything, there are plenty of people in the rock and roll hall of fame who i am only vaguely familiar with and i'm almost 50 and a musician. so, i could believe it when jesse johnson said he brought marvin gaye to prince, it showed in his music with the god/love talk from around the period he claimed. and also, there is a difference between knowing who an artist was and hearing there tunes in passing and really getting into their stuff. my claim is that prince was familiar with the beatles music at least to the point all of us were even if it wasn't our generations music. now, that's not the same as digging into albums and hearing the songs that never made it to radio but it's not like he'd never heard their stuff either. Prince was the reason i got into the beatles because so much was made of the ATWIAD/SGT. Pepper's influence and i saw my hero being compared to the Beatles so, i went and listened to some Beatles, A lot of it i had heard before, as I stated, much of it I hadn't but I fucking loved it all and I learned how to be open to all music from Prince.

Of course Rolling Stone were still a massive cultural influence in the 80s and they were all Beatles heads so the first thing they saw with ATWIAD was The Beatles, whether it was there or not. In fairness, it's fairly astonishing if ATWIAD was not influenced by Sgt. Pepper but it seems it might have been the case, or at least from Prince's perspective.

Remember though - the song ATWAID, which is the first one recorded for the album, was originally written and recorded by Lisa and Wendy's Brothers. So, their influence may have been tied to the Beatles when recording that song. They introduced new instruments that weren't in the mix prior to that time - Cello, Oud, Darbuka, Finger Cymbals. Prince loved the sound, used that song, and built the rest of the album around that song. Those instruments are included on several other tracks on the album.

violetcrush said:

jaawwnn said:

Of course Rolling Stone were still a massive cultural influence in the 80s and they were all Beatles heads so the first thing they saw with ATWIAD was The Beatles, whether it was there or not. In fairness, it's fairly astonishing if ATWIAD was not influenced by Sgt. Pepper but it seems it might have been the case, or at least from Prince's perspective.

Remember though - the song ATWAID, which is the first one recorded for the album, was originally written and recorded by Lisa and Wendy's Brothers. So, their influence may have been tied to the Beatles when recording that song. They introduced new instruments that weren't in the mix prior to that time - Cello, Oud, Darbuka, Finger Cymbals. Prince loved the sound, used that song, and built the rest of the album around that song. Those instruments are included on several other tracks on the album.

I sure want to hear more music that is tied to the ATWIAD/Roadhouse Garden(1985) transition.

We Can Fuck actually feels like ATWIAD music. I listened to Around the World in a Day(the version with bass) then We Can Fuck followed by Tamborine and Girl (extended)

This is my all time favorite period 1985

OldFriends4Sale said:

violetcrush said:

Remember though - the song ATWAID, which is the first one recorded for the album, was originally written and recorded by Lisa and Wendy's Brothers. So, their influence may have been tied to the Beatles when recording that song. They introduced new instruments that weren't in the mix prior to that time - Cello, Oud, Darbuka, Finger Cymbals. Prince loved the sound, used that song, and built the rest of the album around that song. Those instruments are included on several other tracks on the album.

I sure want to hear more music that is tied to the ATWIAD/Roadhouse Garden(1985) transition.

We Can Fuck actually feels like ATWIAD music. I listened to Around the World in a Day(the version with bass) then We Can Fuck followed by Tamborine and Girl(extended)

This is my all time favorite period 1985

I agree!!! The '84 birthday show is my favorite. Really hoping the next official release is from this time period