jaawwnn said:

jjam said:

I know I'd buy it but reissue sales are usually low, I've been involved in a few over the years (from big acts too). Still would have thought it would be a no-brainer for WB to sell it digitally, though.

realistically how many copies would you say a reissued Apollonia 6 CD would sell in 2018? lets assume all the released edits are on it but nothing unreleased.

[Edited 2/27/18 10:49am]

Again, based on the sales of the bootlegs, if WB released in a limited edition and pressed 200 or 300 copies, it would easily sell. I'm thinking a lot of the folks who have purchased the bootlegs would want a legitimate, remastered copy of it.

I bet that if they were to reissue the Apollonia 6,The Family and the Mazarati CD,the sales would be better than expected.They should make 1000 copies of each and release them and see what happens.

Rhino Records is the catalog arm for Warner Bros. They don't seem to do the limited-edition Rhino Handmade releases anymore, but maybe some polite requests via their social media could get them to consider reissuing things like Vanity 6, Apollonia 6, the Family, and Mazarati.

lastdecember said:

SoulAlive said:

kitbradley said:

crimesofparis said:

kitbradley said:

Again, based on the sales of the bootlegs, if WB released in a limited edition and pressed 200 or 300 copies, it would easily sell. I'm thinking a lot of the folks who have purchased the bootlegs would want a legitimate, remastered copy of it.

I can't imagine what they'd have to charge per limited edition copy to break even on a 200-300 pressing. Thats a mighty small run, which costs more per unit, and they'd still have to pay the marketing team to promote it.

I don't necessarily think they would have to pay a marketing team to promote it. Once those types of releases show up on places like dustygrooves as "Upcoming Releases", those titles pretty much sell themselves. The reason I say 200-300 copies is because I'm thinking about Funkytown Grooves. David Nathan said R&B reissues are typically pressed in quantities of 1000 units or less because it has always been a niche market. Funkytown Grooves seems to always have a suplus of CD's they can't get rid of even by legendary artists like Diana Ross and Gladys Knight & the Pips. Often times, they receive them back from record stores and dealers who couldn't move them (because they were probably over-priced in the first place) so they end up shipped back to the label, who ends up trying to get rid of them by selling them for $5 a pop. So, pressing 500 copies of the "Apollonia 6" probably wouldn't make much sense.

And I really don't think it cost much to press CDs in small quantities and slap the words "Limited Edition" on them. I've seen "Limited Edition" on CD's with no bonus tracks, liner note, no extras. Just the CD and artwork. Especially those Japan imports. I think back a few years when those early 80's albums from Side Effect when Miki Howard joined the group were released as Limited Editions in Japan. Very small quantities were pressed because most people had never heard of the group (I know I hadn't), they were sold at $40 per CD, no extras and they went OOP very quickly. And those were all recorded on Elektra Records, which, correct me if I'm wrong, whose parent company was Warner Brothers.

[Edited 3/1/18 11:21am]

scratchtasia said:

Rhino Records is the catalog arm for Warner Bros. They don't seem to do the limited-edition Rhino Handmade releases anymore, but maybe some polite requests via their social media could get them to consider reissuing things like Vanity 6, Apollonia 6, the Family, and Mazarati.

I´ve already sent them a message. Still waiting for a reply.

kitbradley said:

crimesofparis said:

kitbradley said: I can't imagine what they'd have to charge per limited edition copy to break even on a 200-300 pressing. Thats a mighty small run, which costs more per unit, and they'd still have to pay the marketing team to promote it.

I don't necessarily think they would have to pay a marketing team to promote it. Once those types of releases show up on places like dustygrooves as "Upcoming Releases", those titles pretty much sell themselves. The reason I say 200-300 copies is because I'm thinking about Funkytown Grooves. David Nathan said R&B reissues are typically pressed in quantities of 1000 units or less because it has always been a niche market. Funkytown Grooves seems to always have a suplus of CD's they can't get rid of even by legendary artists like Diana Ross and Gladys Knight & the Pips. Often times, they receive them back from record stores and dealers who couldn't move them (because they were probably over-priced in the first place) so they end up shipped back to the label, who ends up trying to get rid of them by selling them for $5 a pop. So, pressing 500 copies of the "Apollonia 6" probably wouldn't make much sense.

And I really don't think it cost much to press CDs in small quantities and slap the words "Limited Edition" on them. I've seen "Limited Edition" on CD's with no bonus tracks, liner note, no extras. Just the CD and artwork. Especially those Japan imports. I think back a few years when those early 80's albums from Side Effect when Miki Howard joined the group were released as Limited Editions in Japan. Very small quantities were pressed because most people had never heard of the group (I know I hadn't), they were sold at $40 per CD, no extras and they went OOP very quickly. And those were all recorded on Elektra Records, which, correct me if I'm wrong, whose parent company was Warner Brothers.

300 replicated CDs with a digipack costs $1,000 (likely less if you're somehow able to combine with a bulk order or have a great relationship with the manufacturer).

.

They would at least send a press release. Those can cost $500-$1,000 (they need to do this). Someone would need to do some marketing -- seriously.

.

They'd want to do Facebook digital ads at an absolute minimum. They probably have an agency to do this, so it's a fixed cost, but it's taking away from something else. Agencies cost like $80 per hour.

.

And they'd still probably need to remaster it for modern standards. That cost varies a lot (my EP was done for $25 per track by someone fresh out of college) but to have a professional do it would be more.

.

I'm not saying it's unfeasible, but they really WOULD need and want to do a marketing campaign. They wouldn't want to go through all the effort just to break even or make some chump change. And the CD market has changed so much since even a few years ago -- very few people buy CDs primarily anymore. At least not in the United States, it could still be a big driver of sales in other places.

crimesofparis said:

kitbradley said:

I don't necessarily think they would have to pay a marketing team to promote it. Once those types of releases show up on places like dustygrooves as "Upcoming Releases", those titles pretty much sell themselves. The reason I say 200-300 copies is because I'm thinking about Funkytown Grooves. David Nathan said R&B reissues are typically pressed in quantities of 1000 units or less because it has always been a niche market. Funkytown Grooves seems to always have a suplus of CD's they can't get rid of even by legendary artists like Diana Ross and Gladys Knight & the Pips. Often times, they receive them back from record stores and dealers who couldn't move them (because they were probably over-priced in the first place) so they end up shipped back to the label, who ends up trying to get rid of them by selling them for $5 a pop. So, pressing 500 copies of the "Apollonia 6" probably wouldn't make much sense.

And I really don't think it cost much to press CDs in small quantities and slap the words "Limited Edition" on them. I've seen "Limited Edition" on CD's with no bonus tracks, liner note, no extras. Just the CD and artwork. Especially those Japan imports. I think back a few years when those early 80's albums from Side Effect when Miki Howard joined the group were released as Limited Editions in Japan. Very small quantities were pressed because most people had never heard of the group (I know I hadn't), they were sold at $40 per CD, no extras and they went OOP very quickly. And those were all recorded on Elektra Records, which, correct me if I'm wrong, whose parent company was Warner Brothers.

300 replicated CDs with a digipack costs $1,000 (likely less if you're somehow able to combine with a bulk order or have a great relationship with the manufacturer).

.

They would at least send a press release. Those can cost $500-$1,000 (they need to do this). Someone would need to do some marketing -- seriously.

.

They'd want to do Facebook digital ads at an absolute minimum. They probably have an agency to do this, so it's a fixed cost, but it's taking away from something else. Agencies cost like $80 per hour.

.

And they'd still probably need to remaster it for modern standards. That cost varies a lot (my EP was done for $25 per track by someone fresh out of college) but to have a professional do it would be more.

.

I'm not saying it's unfeasible, but they really WOULD need and want to do a marketing campaign. They wouldn't want to go through all the effort just to break even or make some chump change. And the CD market has changed so much since even a few years ago -- very few people buy CDs primarily anymore. At least not in the United States, it could still be a big driver of sales in other places.

I don't think people buy CD's anywhere anymore. Japan maybe?

databank said:

databank said:

I don't think people buy CD's anywhere anymore. Japan maybe?

Yeah. Last year I must have bought less than 500 CDs. I'm slowing down

PANDURITO said:

Anyway, I want a CD of all those albums BUT ONLY if they really have the master tapes.

I don't want another 3rd generation copy of a copy put to disc. AND, if you take a 128kbps mp3 and save it to 24-bit/192kHz into a Blu-ray disc, you don't miraculously have HD sound, assholes! All you have is an expensive 128kbps mp3

And please, quality control department, listen to the whole album ONCE with headphones before sending it to the pressing plant. I don't know how many "deluxe" reissues have sound problems no-one detected in the process.

Hey, hire me. I want that job: listening to music (and detecting any possible fault) all day long

crimesofparis said:

kitbradley said:

I don't necessarily think they would have to pay a marketing team to promote it. Once those types of releases show up on places like dustygrooves as "Upcoming Releases", those titles pretty much sell themselves. The reason I say 200-300 copies is because I'm thinking about Funkytown Grooves. David Nathan said R&B reissues are typically pressed in quantities of 1000 units or less because it has always been a niche market. Funkytown Grooves seems to always have a suplus of CD's they can't get rid of even by legendary artists like Diana Ross and Gladys Knight & the Pips. Often times, they receive them back from record stores and dealers who couldn't move them (because they were probably over-priced in the first place) so they end up shipped back to the label, who ends up trying to get rid of them by selling them for $5 a pop. So, pressing 500 copies of the "Apollonia 6" probably wouldn't make much sense.

And I really don't think it cost much to press CDs in small quantities and slap the words "Limited Edition" on them. I've seen "Limited Edition" on CD's with no bonus tracks, liner note, no extras. Just the CD and artwork. Especially those Japan imports. I think back a few years when those early 80's albums from Side Effect when Miki Howard joined the group were released as Limited Editions in Japan. Very small quantities were pressed because most people had never heard of the group (I know I hadn't), they were sold at $40 per CD, no extras and they went OOP very quickly. And those were all recorded on Elektra Records, which, correct me if I'm wrong, whose parent company was Warner Brothers.

300 replicated CDs with a digipack costs $1,000 (likely less if you're somehow able to combine with a bulk order or have a great relationship with the manufacturer).

.

They would at least send a press release. Those can cost $500-$1,000 (they need to do this). Someone would need to do some marketing -- seriously.

.

They'd want to do Facebook digital ads at an absolute minimum. They probably have an agency to do this, so it's a fixed cost, but it's taking away from something else. Agencies cost like $80 per hour.

.

And they'd still probably need to remaster it for modern standards. That cost varies a lot (my EP was done for $25 per track by someone fresh out of college) but to have a professional do it would be more.

.

I'm not saying it's unfeasible, but they really WOULD need and want to do a marketing campaign. They wouldn't want to go through all the effort just to break even or make some chump change. And the CD market has changed so much since even a few years ago -- very few people buy CDs primarily anymore. At least not in the United States, it could still be a big driver of sales in other places.

It's very much a collectors rather than a commercial market these days.

A well done CD reissue pressed up in small quantities could sell in healthy numbers for 25 dollars or so. Of course that would involve, you know, a well done cd reissue, which we're still waiting to happen with anything Prince releated. The likes of Ace Records or Light in the Attic or Big Break Records could be trusted but maybe some people are still deluding themselves that they're going to make millions from Apollonia 6.

Re mastering, the reissue labels mostly don't care, they just want the remastering done as cheaply as possible. I know someone who does a lot of mastering for one of those labels, and the remastering sounds like crap, usually brickwalled. He's by no means a professional, just someone who said he could do it and watched a few tutorials on mastering on YouTube.

They released that André Cymone album a few years ago, and he wasn´t exactly a huge superstar as a solo artist . Don´t get me wrong, I like his work and I think he produced and wrote many great songs in his career but still....he wasn´t that big, and yet his albums were re-released.

But yeah, that was years ago.....I don´t know if there´s still a market for CDs.

Kind of sad actually. I don´t understand why people wouldn´t want a proper physical album instead of a stream or download.

We need digital remasters of all the protege albums, using the original source tapes. The vinyl masters destroy the existing CD masters in every way, but vinyl has its own reproduction problems as we all know.

Thing is that Re-issues by in large are for the loyals and it really depends on the lengths of what the fans want, and the availability of the work and also the current status of the artist. There is not too much cost in doing these things just the basic remastering and packaging etc... very little goes into promoting remasters, like it was said before that usually is handled by the artists and the loyal fan base. Some get very in depth remastering, REM, U2 stand out also Springsteen also the band a-ha despite not having anything going on in the USA, worldwide their in depth reissues of their frist 5 albums handled by RHINO were about the best care I have seen taken with doing things like this, and now because of it RHINO is working on their albums that came after that to coincide with a new record for 2018. But we also have to remember that even the BIGGEST selling records, like a Purple Rain, is still not going to be a big seller, I mean by in large you can expect about less than 1% that bought the original of an album to come back for a remaster. Purple Rain reissue i have heard has moved about 50,000, so you can see that even the biggest albums really are not going to sell they are more for the loyals in every case.

Exactly.I have seen artists and bands who are even more obscure than Apollonia 6 and yet their music got reissued.Apollonia 6 were featured in a successful 80s movie and "Sex Shooter" was a hit single....and since this is a "Prince project",there is definitely an audience for it.

KoolEaze said:

They released that André Cymone album a few years ago, and he wasn´t exactly a huge superstar as a solo artist . Don´t get me wrong, I like his work and I think he produced and wrote many great songs in his career but still....he wasn´t that big, and yet his albums were re-released.

[Edited 3/2/18 14:31pm]

Wait! Wasn't Apollonia's solo album recently reissued on CD in a deluxe form? So, Warner Brothers felt there would be a demand for that title but not the "Apollonia 6" title? What are those people smoking???

KoolEaze said:

They released that André Cymone album a few years ago, and he wasn´t exactly a huge superstar as a solo artist . Don´t get me wrong, I like his work and I think he produced and wrote many great songs in his career but still....he wasn´t that big, and yet his albums were re-released.

But yeah, that was years ago.....I don´t know if there´s still a market for CDs.

Kind of sad actually. I don´t understand why people wouldn´t want a proper physical album instead of a stream or download.

Oh, that I can explain to you, my friend:

- The music is the same and what we are interested is the music.

- We can easily carry our whole music collection everywhere in the world with us when travelling or moving to a new place, since it's either online or that thousands of records can be stored in a tiny portable drive.

- Easy to use on a mobile phone and in the car. Again if stream it's unlimited access and if downloads, you can still carry a few hundred records with you at all times.

- Sound quality can be the same and even when it's not, most of us don't listen to music with high-tech expensive gear so we won't hear the difference.

- Credits can be found online if needs be.

- It's much cheaper (not to say free when downloaded illegally).

- It's unlimited (pretty much everything can be found, streamed or downloaded at any given time).

- It's easy to share with friends (you just share a link or copy a few files on a pen drive).

- The social marker is still there because even though people won't see shelves of records immediately when they step to your home, they will soon see the incredible amount of music on your PC when they visit and you play something, and you will soon anyway have a reputation of being someone with an amazing digital music collection. And if you dont download people will still see your carefully crafted playlists online, and you will come as a person of taste.

.

I'm 41 so not exactly so young anymore, I used to have hundreds of CD's and cassettes, yet now I totally fail to see the point in having physical albums. Just imagine how a kid who grew up in the digital age must feel about it, particularly since people are less and less sedentary. The reason I favor downloads to streaming is because I don't wanna depend on an internet connection and I'm still a collector at heart so I like having and managing my digital library the way I used to organize my physical library. Besides, there are things I listen to that aren't on streaming services. But I have friends who live in countries with stable internet and who don't care for collecting things, and for them Spotify and Dezzer offer a perfect system.

kitbradley said:

Wait! Wasn't Apollonia's solo album recently reissued on CD in a deluxe form?

Yes, and I'm sure it's up to 10 sales already.

kitbradley said:

Wait! Wasn't Apollonia's solo album recently reissued on CD in a deluxe form? So, Warner Brothers felt there would be a demand for that title but not the "Apollonia 6" title? What are those people smoking???

yeah,and it's filled with a ton of bonus tracks.All of this for an album that most of us have never heard.

KoolEaze said:

jjam said:

kitbradley said:

Wait! Wasn't Apollonia's solo album recently reissued on CD in a deluxe form?

Yes, and I'm sure it's up to 10 sales already.

So that lays to rest any arguements about demand.

SoulAlive said:

I wish that Prince had taken care of these things when he was alive.He could have submitted some bonus tracks from his vault and we could have had “deluxe editions” of the protege albums.Several years ago,he mentioned a second Vanity 6 album that was collecting dust in his vault it’ll be a shame if this stuff never gets released

maybe it was his intention for the next generation to experience his music

kitbradley said: