Mumio said:

Yes and in America we love when things aren’t our own doing but declared a disease
So it takes the load of blame off us. “I couldn’t help it” and so forth and then
Pharma waiting in the wings to cure me. cha Ching!!!$$$

Sheila is a smart and strong woman and Prince knew he could not pull the wool over her eyes. Just my opinion, but Prince seemed to keep his enablers around, and the people who genuinely loved him and cared about him, he pushed away. Not a good way to live your life, imo.

OldFriends4Sale said:

laurarichardson said:

I am fully aware of what some medical assoications say. I just do not agree with it. You also realize that has not always been the case.

It also has nothing to do with Prince' s case if from what information we have he was prescribed pain meds for pain and was dependent on them.

Do you honestly think that people who are prescribed pain meds for long term chronic pain have a disease? If they did not have the health issues they would not have needed to take the pain meds so how would they be classified as victims of a disease.

The strength of these meds was increased over the last 15 years and over prescribed to many patients fuling the epidemic we now have.

20 years ago if you have your wisdom tooth pulled the dentist gave you a Tylenol 3 now you get a percocet. I would bet had someome given Prince a Tylenol 3 he might not have been on this road.

Just for your information I tore a legiment in my arm and was offered a Vicodin. I am taking Tylenol 3 and managing just fine. If I had taken the Vicodin and let us say I got hooked on them I guess I would have a disease as well. Everybody's situation is different and this is what happens when you sit at the internet with a textbook while on your lunch break. Stop wasting your time and troll somewhere else.

people do call it an illness.
Check out the language at AA meetings. They call it an illness.

And cocaine addiction is different from pain pills addiction -if the person only took them because they had to for pain.

.

You can lead a horse to water, but........

.

Short Definition of Addiction:

.

Addiction is a primary, chronic disease of brain reward, motivation, memory and related circuitry. Dysfunction in these circuits leads to characteristic biological, psychological, social and spiritual manifestations. This is reflected in an individual pathologically pursuing reward and/or relief by substance use and other behaviors.

.

Addiction is characterized by inability to consistently abstain, impairment in behavioral control, craving, diminished recognition of significant problems with one’s behaviors and interpersonal relationships, and a dysfunctional emotional response. Like other chronic diseases, addiction often involves cycles of relapse and remission. Without treatment or engagement in recovery activities, addiction is progressive and can result in disability or premature death.

.

https://www.asam.org/reso...-addiction

cloveringold85 said:

Sheila is a smart and strong woman and Prince knew he could not pull the wool over her eyes. Just my opinion, but Prince seemed to keep his enablers around, and the people who genuinely loved him and cared about him, he pushed away. Not a good way to live your life, imo.

It's a sad way to live your life

It is sad life to come to a public forum and name call people, but people do it.
Prince didn’t corner the market on sad life choice behaviors.

Who do you mean exactly?

purplefam99 said:

It is sad life to come to a public forum and name call people, but people do it. Prince didn’t corner the market on sad life choice behaviors.

ThatWhiteDude said:

cloveringold85 said:

Sheila is a smart and strong woman and Prince knew he could not pull the wool over her eyes. Just my opinion, but Prince seemed to keep his enablers around, and the people who genuinely loved him and cared about him, he pushed away. Not a good way to live your life, imo.

It's a sad way to live your life

.

Extremely sad. Prince was always true to himself, as far as his career was concerned. His personal life -- that was another story.

ThatWhiteDude said:

How would naming names help prove the point?

Who exactly do you think are the enablers? the Weltons? KJ? Judith HIll? Meron ? his bodyguards? I reckon that most of the supposed enablers were folks who were too new to read the signs or too new to know how to broach the subject. To me, the only true enablers were probably that last three to see him alive. The older associates he pushed away or keep in their little compartmentalized boxes, but I imagine it was hard to trust many of 80's associates

since so many of them seem to love being interviewed about Prince and his behavior (and aren't bound to NDA"s) ... Even Sheila, if she knew or suspected about his addiction, would have exposed him publically in an attempt to shame him into treatment. he could threaten litigation but once the cat is out of the bag the damage is done. I don't imagine any judge would side for Prince if old associates were calling him out publically for illegally procuring drugs especially if it were true. And slander is hard to prove. It is also possible Prince was ashamed and a bit afraid of what old associates would think.

cloveringold85 said:

Sheila is a smart and strong woman and Prince knew he could not pull the wool over her eyes. Just my opinion, but Prince seemed to keep his enablers around, and the people who genuinely loved him and cared about him, he pushed away. Not a good way to live your life, imo.

[Edited 2/1/18 16:43pm]

purplerabbithole said:

Oh man rabbit I think that is a Huge reach to suggest that about Sheila.
You think she would have publicly shamed him. Hmmmm
I don’t know. Part of me says if she knew that would work and was willing to risk
Her relationship with him then that is kinda the person you want around.
That would have looked bad but maybe been to his ultimate benefit. That would be
A loving thing actually.

That is exactly what I am saying. She may have publically shamed him in an attempt to help him..but Prince couldn't handle that. I think she (unlike others) would have kept it a secret as long as she could as long as he was getting the help he needed, but I am not sure Prince was ready and I think he was probably fearful of what his older associates would say or do publically and wasn't sure of their motives--would they try to help him or just exploit his weakness for personal gain or attention??. Some of his issues may have started as legitimate and understandable trust issues that may partly be the fault of associates who talk about everything Prince related from back in the day. It may have come to the point where PRince couldn't tell what people's motives were and he started distrusting most folks who weren't new or signing NDA's...

purplefam99 said:

purplerabbithole said:

Who exactly do you think are the enablers? the Weltons? KJ? Judith HIll? Meron ? his bodyguards? I reckon that most of the supposed enablers were folks who were too new to read the signs or too new to know how to broach the subject. To me, the only true enablers were probably that last three to see him alive. The older associates he pushed away or keep in their little compartmentalized boxes, but I imagine it was hard to trust many of 80's associates

since so many of them seem to love being interviewed about Prince and his behavior (and aren't bound to NDA"s) ... Even Sheila, if she knew or suspected about his addiction, would have exposed him publically in an attempt to shame him into treatment. he could threaten litigation but once the cat is out of the bag the damage is done. I don't imagine any judge would side for Prince if old associates were calling him out publically for illegally procuring drugs especially if it were true. And slander is hard to prove. It is also possible Prince was ashamed and a bit afraid of what old associates would think.

[Edited 2/1/18 16:43pm]

Oh man rabbit I think that is a Huge reach to suggest that about Sheila. You think she would have publicly shamed him. Hmmmm I don’t know. Part of me says if she knew that would work and was willing to risk Her relationship with him then that is kinda the person you want around. That would have looked bad but maybe been to his ultimate benefit. That would be A loving thing actually.

[Edited 2/1/18 17:16pm]

purplerabbithole said:

Gotcha!! Thanks for your patience. Whole life happening around me, sometimes
I miss read.

purplerabbithole said:

Who exactly do you think are the enablers? the Weltons? KJ? Judith HIll? Meron ? his bodyguards? I reckon that most of the supposed enablers were folks who were too new to read the signs or too new to know how to broach the subject. To me, the only true enablers were probably that last three to see him alive. The older associates he pushed away or keep in their little compartmentalized boxes, but I imagine it was hard to trust many of 80's associates

since so many of them seem to love being interviewed about Prince and his behavior (and aren't bound to NDA"s) ... Even Sheila, if she knew or suspected about his addiction, would have exposed him publically in an attempt to shame him into treatment. he could threaten litigation but once the cat is out of the bag the damage is done. I don't imagine any judge would side for Prince if old associates were calling him out publically for illegally procuring drugs especially if it were true. And slander is hard to prove. It is also possible Prince was ashamed and a bit afraid of what old associates would think.

cloveringold85 said:

Sheila is a smart and strong woman and Prince knew he could not pull the wool over her eyes. Just my opinion, but Prince seemed to keep his enablers around, and the people who genuinely loved him and cared about him, he pushed away. Not a good way to live your life, imo.

[Edited 2/1/18 16:43pm]

.

KJ is the first that comes to mind. He was around Prince more than anyone else, I would say.

.

I think that Sheila may have known, but lets say she was 100% certain of Prince's abuse with pain meds; I don't think she would have exposed him publicly. I don't see Sheila being that type of person.

cloveringold85 said:

—-Maybe he pushed her a way because he did not want her to be worried or upset. It does not have to always be a bad reason.

it could be both reasons. he was in a bad place and unfortunately suffered alone. Probably the biggest tragedy in my eyes is the idea of suffering alone without geniune support, advice and a shoulder to cry on. The fact that Prince felt he had to bear it alone breaks my heart..whether it was disease (and not wanting to be a burden) or the shame of addiction (mingled with fear and distrust) ... it is sad either way or in either situation.

laurarichardson said:

cloveringold85 said:

Sheila is a smart and strong woman and Prince knew he could not pull the wool over her eyes. Just my opinion, but Prince seemed to keep his enablers around, and the people who genuinely loved him and cared about him, he pushed away. Not a good way to live your life, imo.

—-Maybe he pushed her a way because he did not want her to be worried or upset. It does not have to always be a bad reason.

[Edited 2/1/18 19:25pm]

[Edited 2/1/18 19:27pm]

laurarichardson said:

We have no way of knowing what came first.
We know he had legitimate physical pain and issues with opiates.

laurarichardson said:

Here's the short answer: that's because most people rely on the media for their information.
Addiction has been classified aa a brain disease since 2011.
It's quite surprising and disturbing, given the statistics that so many people are not more educated about addiction.
In 2014, 1 in 8 in the U.S. suffered from a drug disorder (abuse, dependency, addiction).
The odds say this brain disease is going to affect all of our lives in one way or another. And more than once.
So yes, a textbook, published within the last three years or so would be a good start.

ThatWhiteDude said:

laurarichardson said:

Er...you have read what some medical associations say but you don't agree with it/them?
PhDs in biology, psychology, pathology, etc etc etc spent thousands of hours and have stacks of scientific data saying this is a brain disease but you don't believe it?
You are confusing addiction with dependence with abuse with recreational/social use. If you really want to know, read about it. Try NIH or a local library and access some academic journals/research studies.
I'm also confused as to why you choose not to accept scientific data as to addiction being a brain disease but can wholly entertain Prince having a terminal illness and committing suicide based essentially on hearsay.
Whatever floats your boat I guess.

purplerabbithole said:

Addiction has nothing to do with willpower. It never has. That's the myth perpetuated by the media and those who make billions keeping it going.
Think about it.
Which one makes you more $$ - saying it's a brain disease or saying it's willpower/moral issue?
It's not that hard to figure out.
By 2012 or so, the U.S. had spent over a trillion dollars for the WOD.
It's done a lot of good huh?

cloveringold85 said:

I agree, Clover.

cloveringold85 said:

ThatWhiteDude said:

It's a sad way to live your life

.

Extremely sad. Prince was always true to himself, as far as his career was concerned. His personal life -- that was another story.

Yes

Morgaine said:

laurarichardson said:

I am fully aware of what some medical assoications say. I just do not agree with it. You also realize that has not always been the case.

It also has nothing to do with Prince' s case if from what information we have he was prescribed pain meds for pain and was dependent on them.

Do you honestly think that people who are prescribed pain meds for long term chronic pain have a disease? If they did not have the health issues they would not have needed to take the pain meds so how would they be classified as victims of a disease.

The strength of these meds was increased over the last 15 years and over prescribed to many patients fuling the epidemic we now have.

20 years ago if you have your wisdom tooth pulled the dentist gave you a Tylenol 3 now you get a percocet. I would bet had someome given Prince a Tylenol 3 he might not have been on this road.

Just for your information I tore a legiment in my arm and was offered a Vicodin. I am taking Tylenol 3 and managing just fine. If I had taken the Vicodin and let us say I got hooked on them I guess I would have a disease as well. Everybody's situation is different and this is what happens when you sit at the internet with a textbook while on your lunch break. Stop wasting your time and troll somewhere else.

Er...you have read what some medical associations say but you don't agree with it/them? PhDs in biology, psychology, pathology, etc etc etc spent thousands of hours and have stacks of scientific data saying this is a brain disease but you don't believe it? You are confusing addiction with dependence with abuse with recreational/social use. If you really want to know, read about it. Try NIH or a local library and access some academic journals/research studies. I'm also confused as to why you choose not to accept scientific data as to addiction being a brain disease but can wholly entertain Prince having a terminal illness and committing suicide based essentially on hearsay. Whatever floats your boat I guess.

I have explained myself and so have others. Why don't you go back and read what I wrote and what others have to say? Come back after you read it and discuss it instead of trying to get the last shot in. The hearsay as you call it is from his own family members and I am not the only one hearing it.

[Edited 2/2/18 6:32am]

Morgaine said:

laurarichardson said:

I am fully aware of what some medical assoications say. I just do not agree with it. You also realize that has not always been the case.

It also has nothing to do with Prince' s case if from what information we have he was prescribed pain meds for pain and was dependent on them.

Do you honestly think that people who are prescribed pain meds for long term chronic pain have a disease? If they did not have the health issues they would not have needed to take the pain meds so how would they be classified as victims of a disease.

The strength of these meds was increased over the last 15 years and over prescribed to many patients fuling the epidemic we now have.

20 years ago if you have your wisdom tooth pulled the dentist gave you a Tylenol 3 now you get a percocet. I would bet had someome given Prince a Tylenol 3 he might not have been on this road.

Just for your information I tore a legiment in my arm and was offered a Vicodin. I am taking Tylenol 3 and managing just fine. If I had taken the Vicodin and let us say I got hooked on them I guess I would have a disease as well. Everybody's situation is different and this is what happens when you sit at the internet with a textbook while on your lunch break. Stop wasting your time and troll somewhere else.

Er...you have read what some medical associations say but you don't agree with it/them? PhDs in biology, psychology, pathology, etc etc etc spent thousands of hours and have stacks of scientific data saying this is a brain disease but you don't believe it? You are confusing addiction with dependence with abuse with recreational/social use. If you really want to know, read about it. Try NIH or a local library and access some academic journals/research studies. I'm also confused as to why you choose not to accept scientific data as to addiction being a brain disease but can wholly entertain Prince having a terminal illness and committing suicide based essentially on hearsay. Whatever floats your boat I guess.

To some less educated people, the world is flat simply because "textbooks", world renowned astronomers, astronauts, scientists, and credentialed peer reviewed journals state otherwise. It matters not if there is irrefutable evidence of the sort.

They are usually simple people, and no matter how complicated the data, they are steadfast in believing that all things science, is simple. This is a very common occurrence worldwide. This sort of hardwired behavior is akin to a calf sucking an udder. It is one of the reasons one should be careful not to co-mingle your gene pool with an ignorant source.

It is easier to comprehend the ignorance of a contrarian once you have determined that the host, the source of the ignorance, demonstrates a pattern that only a doorknob would appreciate. As the capacity to learn diminishes with age,you can certainly understand that the contrarian has little to no ability to modify genetic expressions that are on full display. Good luck.

Menes said:

Morgaine said:

laurarichardson said: Er...you have read what some medical associations say but you don't agree with it/them? PhDs in biology, psychology, pathology, etc etc etc spent thousands of hours and have stacks of scientific data saying this is a brain disease but you don't believe it? You are confusing addiction with dependence with abuse with recreational/social use. If you really want to know, read about it. Try NIH or a local library and access some academic journals/research studies. I'm also confused as to why you choose not to accept scientific data as to addiction being a brain disease but can wholly entertain Prince having a terminal illness and committing suicide based essentially on hearsay. Whatever floats your boat I guess.

To some less educated people, the world is flat simply because "textbooks", world renowned astronomers, astronauts, scientists, and credentialed peer reviewed journals state otherwise. It matters not if there is irrefutable evidence of the sort.

They are usually simple people, and no matter how complicated the data, they are steadfast in believing that all things science, is simple. This is a very common occurrence worldwide. This sort of hardwired behavior is akin to a calf sucking an udder. It is one of the reasons one should be careful not to co-mingle your gene pool with an ignorant source.

It is easier to comprehend the ignorance of a contrarian once you have determined that the host, the source of the ignorance, demonstrates a pattern that only a doorknob would appreciate. As the capacity to learn diminishes with age,you can certainly understand that the contrarian has little to no ability to modify genetic expressions that are on full display. Good luck.

To some people it is a one size fits all world. Everybody is the same all situations are the same and will have the same outcome no matter what the circumstances. After all you do not have to do any thinking or take any responsibility for anything when you look at things in this matter.

laurarichardson said:

Menes said:

To some less educated people, the world is flat simply because "textbooks", world renowned astronomers, astronauts, scientists, and credentialed peer reviewed journals state otherwise. It matters not if there is irrefutable evidence of the sort.

They are usually simple people, and no matter how complicated the data, they are steadfast in believing that all things science, is simple. This is a very common occurrence worldwide. This sort of hardwired behavior is akin to a calf sucking an udder. It is one of the reasons one should be careful not to co-mingle your gene pool with an ignorant source.

It is easier to comprehend the ignorance of a contrarian once you have determined that the host, the source of the ignorance, demonstrates a pattern that only a doorknob would appreciate. As the capacity to learn diminishes with age,you can certainly understand that the contrarian has little to no ability to modify genetic expressions that are on full display. Good luck.

To some people it is a one size fits all world. Everybody is the same all situations are the same and will have the same outcome no matter what the circumstances. After all you do not have to do any thinking or take any responsibility for anything when you look at things in this matter.

1+1 =3

Menes said:

laurarichardson said:

To some people it is a one size fits all world. Everybody is the same all situations are the same and will have the same outcome no matter what the circumstances. After all you do not have to do any thinking or take any responsibility for anything when you look at things in this matter.

1+1 =3

What is it like to be this delusional?

laurarichardson said:

Menes said:

1+1 =3

What is it like to be this delusional?

You don't believe it? Surely you know something about : 1+1=3

Menes said:

laurarichardson said:

You don't believe it? Surely you know something about : 1+1=3

"I don't really care so much what people say about me because it usually is a reflection of who they are. For example, if people wish I would sound like I used to sound, then it says more about them than it does me." Prince

laurarichardson said:

Menes said:

You don't believe it? Surely you know something about : 1+1=3

"I don't really care so much what people say about me because it usually is a reflection of who they are. For example, if people wish I would sound like I used to sound, then it says more about them than it does me." Prince

Using one of Prince's smartest quotes to make your points more credible is the most disrespectful thing I've seen on this board so far.